Newbridge Credit Union

sparksfly

Saw this letter on "Save Newbridge Credit Union" facebook page.



IMPORTANT LETTER - PLEASE READ RE NEWBRIDGE CREDIT UNION
Hiya,
Well at last it is out in the open. The Sunday Business Post reported yesterday that the final dismantling of Newbridge Credit Union will take place within the next few months. Strange isn’t it that a Sunday newspaper is the vehicle chosen to inform volunteers, staff and members of our Credit Union’s fate. Although, perhaps it is not so strange as the Central Bank and Dept of Finance have preferred this method of communication from the beginning of this particular fiasco. In the 24 hours before the appointment of the Special Manager on January 13th last year the Dept of Finance leaked like a sieve with information that had local media buzzing before we even knew the order had been approved by the judge.
Since Wednesday 11th of January 2012 the Board of Directors have been silenced by a gagging order which threatens them with a personal fine of €100,000 and/or three years in jail if they breathed a word of what was going on in their credit union.
Their right to defend themselves was removed by judicial decree and they have been subjected to unrelenting negative coverage from the media which thrashed their ability and integrity. To tell you the truth I had become very cynical about journalists who seemed happy to print information supplied by the Central Bank and regulators office without verifying it for themselves. But thankfully I think that tide is turning. Perhaps the Anglo tapes have caused them to think again.
As many of you may know I have been a volunteer director since 1993 and during that time have encountered many highs and lows as we navigated Newbridge Credit Union through the often choppy waters that constituted Irelands financial service sector in the 1990’s and more recently since the present recession began in 2008. We worked hard to maintain our shared vision for our Credit Union which was to become a leader in the ethical provision of savings and loans with a strong member, community and local economy focus.
However, nothing in my life or my credit union experience to date prepared me for the Armageddon that was visited upon us on January 13th last year. The debilitating effect of those first 12 months on my physical and mental well-being left me with no other choice. I had to resign. I tendered my resignation to the Special Manager last January. I am not a person who gives up easily but too many sleepless nights and constant anxiety in the pit of my stomach led to my decision. I have always regarded myself as an optimist and campaigner but the consequence of not being able to tell our side of the story or carry out the work we were elected to do, rendered myself and the rest of the board powerless. Not a condition any of us were used to. We were being treated like outcasts and the remnants of my pride and dignity would not allow me to stay a moment longer. It was my way of protesting but was in hindsight a pointless gesture; as I am still bound by the gagging order and now, along with other volunteers and staff, I am not allowed to know what is going on behind the scenes in the credit union.
With my hand on my heart I’m telling you we did not deserve the treatment meted out by the Central Bank and Department of Finance. Newbridge Credit Union was one of the best run and most successful credit unions in the country before the special manager was appointed and I will go to my grave believing that what has happened and is about to happen here is a huge miscarriage of justice and abuse of power. The Special Manager was appointed to undertake a review of the CU’s financial position with regard to Loan Book and Reserves. This evaluation could have been carried out under section 91 of the existing credit union act. What was there to gain by creating the media circus which occurred over that first weekend including thousands of words of newspaper print, most of it so inaccurate and fictional it could have come from the pen of Hans Christian Anderson himself.
I found it very hard to come to terms with the powerlessness. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine our Government through the Central Bank could behave as rashly and carelessly as they did. They rode roughshod over your democratic rights while all the time proclaiming they are protecting your savings... The simple truth is, they want to control your savings, or if possible get them out of the credit union and into the banks. As you know they very nearly achieved that in Newbridge on January 13th 2012.
You will be well aware how much the special manager has cost Newbridge Credit Union so far. Apart from the reputational damage, the final cost will be around €2million. This begs another question as to how a Credit Union, which is supposed to be in trouble, could afford to pay the exorbitant level of fees charged by Ernst and Young (Auditors to Anglo in the Good Old Days) but were not allowed to pay a dividend to their loyal members who have kept faith throughout this calamity. Your rights as members of the credit union were also removed the day the special manager was appointed. Democracy and truth were indeed the first casualties in this particular war.
But unfortunately we are the small people. And small people don’t seem to matter in the greater scheme of things. We became lab rats in their experiment, a training ground for bank auditors who never set foot inside a credit union before.
Regrettably when small people come up against the big guns, the Central Bank, Regulator, Department of Finance, Arthur Cox etc, their voices are rarely heard. We were caught between a rock and a hard place wanting to scream about the injustice of it all but fearing that if we spoke out they would come down on the credit union like a ton of bricks. We have learned that their power is absolute. If we were allowed we could explain how the board was manoeuvred down a cul-de -sac where we were ambushed by new legislation that was never meant to be used against credit unions. We could also show our figures, how not one penny of members money was lost in investments or otherwise and how we managed to bring in a surplus every year since the recession began and how members, struggling to survive, are still trying their best to repay loans.
But the story of Newbridge Credit Union is not just about savings, loans and dividends: There is no doubt that it helped bring prosperity to the town in the last 44 years but there was a hidden added value to it as well. Through Bursaries, Donations and Sponsorships we continued to support many local groups, schools, clubs and organisations in the town and beyond. Up to €250,000, in sponsorship, was spent in the locality in the three years before the special manager was appointed. All of this will be lost if their plans come to fruition. Only the loyalty of our members, built up over forty four years, prevented a major run on our credit union last year. I would like to think that those members who benefited from loans and good dividends over the years will keep faith with the volunteers and staff as they work hard behind the scenes, despite the unenviable situation. Because if Newbridge Credit Union disappears you will be left to the tender mercies of the banks! The Sunday Business Post reckons we will be joined with Naas Credit Union. That is one rumour verified. The other rumour out on the street maintains that the building is to be sold to a government department.
Our Credit Union; the building built and paid for by us - to be sold by a stranger, employed by our government to our government! Every notion I ever had about truth and justice will be tested to the limit if that happens.
I am writing this to give you an idea of what is going on in Newbridge Credit Union. What I would really love to do is shout from the rooftops about what really happened here and would willingly do the jail time, but unfortunately I cannot plunge my family into debt of €100,000, we just cannot afford it. So the ball is in your court. Let your families and friends know. It is time for the members to make their voices heard. There are lots of votes in Newbridge so let them feel your presence in some form. Rattle their cage. Fax, email, and write postcards and letters, join petitions aimed at the Minister, local representatives and the Central Bank, demanding your right to be heard. Reclaim the democracy stolen from us last year.

Ni neart go cur le cheile… There is strength in unity.

Breda Reid.

PS. In the meantime I wish Maynooth Credit Union the best of luck in their legal attempt to challenge the Central Bank around the same issues.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Newbridge-Credit-Union/307950369342226?fref=ts


Differing opinions in the comments to this letter, some blaming the new special manager, others saying the C U was in trouble long before his appointment.

Damien360

Kfm reported a meeting is taking place in Ryston about this. It is not an official CU meeting but hosted by the save our credit union group.

Meeting 8.30pm 31st July Ryston hall.

BuffyBot

Perhaps if the "small people" in charge of Newbridge CU had of kept themselves in check during the boom, and not installed themselves in what could be quite easily called a palace amongst other things they wouldn't be in this position. To call it "best run" is seriously over-egging the pudding.

While there are some concerning matters in play, there is a lot of over-emotive claptrap being wheedled around on this.

Damien360

BuffyBot wrote: »

Perhaps if the "small people" in charge of Newbridge CU had of kept themselves in check during the boom, and installed themselves in what could be quite easily called a palace amongst other things they wouldn't be in this position. To call it "best run" is seriously over-egging the pudding.

While there are some concerning matters in play, there is a lot of over-emotive claptrap being wheedled around on this.

But if we could have our agm we could get to the bottom of this, remove those responsible and try rebuild the movement.

The large white elephant that was built was always questionable.

I still maintain the regulator is there for a reason, it would be nice to know what is the reason.

sparksfly

The letter states among other things-

"not one penny of members money was lost in investments or otherwise and how we managed to bring in a surplus every year since the recession began".

I believe members money was certainly wasted-
(a) on that building
(b) on questionable amounts given out in loans for development type purposes that seems to have bypassed their own lending criteria.

A leaflet is being handed out to customers in which the special manager tries to downplay the issue, citing that eligible deposits up to 100,000 euro are guaranteed.

L1011

PS. In the meantime I wish Maynooth Credit Union the best of luck in their legal attempt to challenge the Central Bank around the same issues.

Maynooth CU were giving 0% dividends and 0% on SSIAs during the good times - I don't think they're some paradigm of a well run CU being hounded to get at their assets which is what the mad conspiracy theory being punted around by the ousted Newbridge CU board has become.

NEDDURC

This sort of reminds me of Anglo and Quinn insurance - where the people running both in the boom time looked like they were doing a great job but really there were some major irregularities and very risky practices.

Alot of anger and bluster from Ms. Reid in that letter. Some things may be true. I'm sure the truth will eventually come out but really this letter tells us very little of what the issues are in Newbridge Credit Union.

The Business Post claimed that Newbridge may be merged with Naas Credit Union but I'm guessing that Naas may close in that case rather than the Newbridge. Will just have to wait and see I suppose.

Deposits may be gaurnteed but since the funds are generating no return or dividends then I think funds could well be moved elsewhere by savvy depositors. These rumors do little for confidence and could spiral into further problems.

BuffyBot

I suspect that will be revealed to be at the core of this: it's a bit of a vicious circle. Until the matter is resolved, and a solution is put in place (merger etc) that information won't be revealed so as not to cause a run on deposits/defaults. It's a holding position.

The Business Post claimed that Newbridge may be merged with Naas Credit Union but I'm guessing that Naas may close in that case rather than the Newbridge. Will just have to wait and see I suppose.

No reason Naas would close: it's healthy in comparison to most and relatively well run. Newbridge being folded into it would most likely be how it would pan out of that's the road they go down.

maxmo

And which road would that be?
The uphill one?
or
The one without a bend?

whitleydonal

I am a director of a credit union for over 15 years our entire board was told to go this year and we were told to keep quiet about it not even the members are to be told.it reminds me of the cold war. the central bank has a secret agenda against credit unions and before anyone asks we are a well run credit union reserves in excess of 15%paid a dividend in excess of 2% max permitted by the regulator and no losses or excesses. I personally am delighted to be leaving as the ethos is being destroyed by the central band rural will be a bleak without banks post offices and now credit unions and yes I will use my vote to punish this government for this savage policy.

whitleydonal

That's the point the process is designed so that the truth never comes out ask a question about custom house capital or any credit union see how far you get.

Damien360

whitleydonal wrote: »

I am a director of a credit union for over 15 years our entire board was told to go this year and we were told to keep quiet about it not even the members are to be told.it reminds me of the cold war. the central bank has a secret agenda against credit unions and before anyone asks we are a well run credit union reserves in excess of 15%paid a dividend in excess of 2% max permitted by the regulator and no losses or excesses. I personally am delighted to be leaving as the ethos is being destroyed by the central band rural will be a bleak without banks post offices and now credit unions and yes I will use my vote to punish this government for this savage policy.

I could'nt make it to tonight's meeting due to family illness. Did you get to it and was it of any use or just hot air blowing ?

whitleydonal

Hi I am not a director of Newbridge credit union my point is that it is the policy to get rid of what they describe as old time directors and there appears to be a policy of destroying the ethos with Charlie Weston spinning against credit unions and no I am not paranoid try to read something positive about credit unions in the media in the last two years. I just cannot imagine where this country would be without credit unions since the banks stopped working in 2008 when even profitable small business could not get finance what chance would the small man have. look at across the water with WONGA pay day loans at 4000%interest. When credit unions are gone the vacuum will be filled by money lenders both legal and illegal and we will reap the harvest of this jack boot policy.

orlao

Donal, I'm not casting aspersions on you in any way, but it would normally not be considered good practice to be on a Board for 15 years, although I know it is still widespread. Most voluntary organisations are implementing term limits now to help with that. I'm interested to know how an entire Board of Directors were told to go without telling the members - I'm not familiar with the governance of Credit Unions, but are Directors not appointed/elected by the members, so wouldn't you have to inform members if the entire Board is stepping down so new ones can be elected? I'm very interested to know what has happened in Newbridge, I'm not a member as I transferred my account when I moved to Kilcullen - partly because I was very uncomfortable with the way members' money was being used to finance what seemed to be an unnecessarily large and ostentatious building. My 92yr old Dad is one of two surviving founder Directors of Newbridge CU. He told me one of the first loans went to help a local man buy a bicycle as he had got a job on the bog and needed transport to get to it - that to me is the essence of CUs, and what the focus of loans should always be, even if returns are lower than banks. Let Anglo Irish and the other parasitic institutions focused on generating wealth for shareholders do the big development loans.

whitleydonal

Under the new credit union act the members will have little or no say in who they elect. The board have been instructed to go out and seek replacements for the board and the nominations will get 11 names which under the new legislation will have to be approved in advance by the central bank. the names will be put to the agm in reality the members have no choice but to elect them and under the new legislation nominations cannot be taken from the floor.

its a strange new system with the members vote at the end the board appoints, the central bank approves and the members elect.

Our board is regarded as being there too long performance is not the issue as regards 15 years service as too long I am inclined to agree with you only a fool would give up so much of their spare time for free. I think new credit union boards should be paid god knows the members can afford it given that newbridge could afford to pay a special manager 2 million euro.

I have become cynical no more civic duty for me I am only interested if I get paid like everyone else

roy rodgers

newbridge credit union is a corrupt organization that has being operating like this for years.

ye are the anglo of credit unions. just look at the building that was build and later got an extension!! what the hell was that all all about???
ye "the board" got us, the people, into this trouble with our money while ye still sponsor horse races on the curragh and smile for the camera's.
ye disgust me.

whats happening now with our union is just a pure continuation of the passed and the place should close down and hopefully we can rebuild a new union and go back to the roots for the people.
The people have to stand up to this corruption and stop paying there loads, remove their savings as soon as possible, its a black hole that is just sucking us dry and then leave us bewildered and broke.

I for one will not be paying anymore into this corruption ye have sucked 80% of my saving with out my consent because I wasnt making my "original payments" (2008) but was making 60% of it after a meeting in 2010 up now and never missed a payment at that but still owe arrears of the loan value now?? doesnt make sense. for the people.. bullsh1te.. all ye are missing is a balaclava.
an earlier post said one of the first loans was for a bike so a fellow could get to work!!! where did newbridge credit union lose its ethos????

Some of the past board have to stand up and take blame for this mess and stop looking to blame the central bank they wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the fook up that they done..
why are the people on the board and staff being gagged??? we do live in a free state country its not a dictatorship so grow a pair and stop being the teachers pet and start telling the truth.

go raibh mile a maith agat

whitleydonal

Hi,
You say corruption without a shred of evidence it is just a rant not worthy of a reply, but if and other members were given the opportunity to vent your spleen at the board in the proper way at a general meeting you would not be showing such frustration

Damien360

roy rodgers wrote: »

newbridge credit union is a corrupt organization that has being operating like this for years.

Be careful with that accusation. I have given whitelydonal flak on another forum for stupidity on the part of the directors but never corruption.

We need an AGM to find out facts.

The staff of the credit union have a gagging order on them to the value of a fine for €100,000. This was confirmed. Ah democracy at it's best.

I listened to Willie Crowley on KFM podcast with Clem (he is useless) and there were some worrying figures.

The CU claims to have been caught by the change in value of reserve required from €20m to €40m. They claim to be solvent. Again we need accounts provided prior to AGM to confirm.

From the last AGM, very direct questions were asked from the floor as to truth of bad loan to a developer that exceeded the CU's own loan rules. From memory the only thing confirmed was they broke their own rules. That is the stupidity.

The last set of books showed money held in banks, not in bonds, and this was another direct question from the floor which confirmed all of it is in cash. not sure if any was in anglo as I cannot remember. What the banks did with this cash is questionable. Invested in Anglo ?

Until we see an AGM then we cannot confirm anything which is ridiculous.

For my own part, I removed all my savings except for €1, so I can attend AGM. My reason is because of an Irish Times article stating that the CU's were actually bond holders but not stating any one in particular.

The shareholders in the banks currently vote their own directors to the board, albeit controlled by a few powerful blocks. Can you imagine a situation whereby the shareholders of a CU (you and me) are refused that right ? That is what is proposed.

I feel myself that there is a concerted push by government to remove the number of the CU's in the country and merge them. Instead of 10 in a county, there may be one central CU (Naas requested this according to their statement) and the others would be satellites of this hub. Each county would be similar. Down to 25 major hubs and likely a few more for Dublin due to population size. You can bet Enda and co will fly in their own buddies in a "jobs for the boys" push. Removing the right of the shareholders to vote in the board would facilitate this. This is speculation in my case but I feel plausible.

whitleydonal

I have consistently called for openness and transparency in these matters in particular the members of Newbridge deserve answers. Newbridge is not the only credit union with a gagging order, the regulator is imposing a heavy hand deserved or not all over the country with the exception of the Health Services Credit Union who are the darlings of the movement at present and are taking over credit unions left right and centre. There is something of the night about the central bank telling credit unions to keep secrets from the members. It is a disgrace that the central bank is leaking about Newbridge with idle gossip and no facts. I will make this prediction no one will ever find out and there is the real scandal we were told lies about the banks and now its the turn of the credit unions the big difference when you are a director of a bank you were well paid and when you make a complete hames of it the taxpayer will clean up the mess. Did you notice all the negative spin against credit unions at one stage Mr. Noonan said credit union will need a billion euros then this changed to 500 million euro now its a loan of 250 million euro to be paid back because under eu law the government cannot aid cu directly. Time and time again it is repeated like a mantra that there is a problem with credit unions but nobody will come out and say exactly what it is and which credit unions they are talking about its all just negative spin spin spin

BuffyBot

Be careful with that accusation. I have given whitelydonal flak on another forum for stupidity on the part of the directors but never corruption.

You can bet Enda and co will fly in their own buddies in a "jobs for the boys" push. Removing the right of the shareholders to vote in the board would facilitate this. This is speculation in my case but I feel plausible.

There's a certain amount of irony in accusing someone of something your doing yourself.

I'd caution everyone to moderate their statements on this, to save me having to do it.

orlao

Donal, that's a fair reply. I'm truly sorry you feel so disillusioned with voluntary effort that you don't feel you'll do anything again without being paid. Voluntary organisations contribute hugely to the social capital in this country, many of which are some of the only organisations demonstrating the values which we all hope are actually the backbone of the country. However I'm inclined to agree with you about needing to be paid for this type of Board position, because it is essentially a financial institution, and in Newbridge CU's case, quite a large one. I've been on many Boards (charities, school etc) over the years and have worked to voluntary Boards in a paid capacity, and also have a background in accountancy, but don't think I would ever take on being a Director of a CU, unless it was very small, the risks are too great and it is a complex business. In general I am not in favour of Directors of Boards of charities being paid (unlike in the UK, where there is some provision for this). I think the two big bugbears about Newbridge CU at the moment are that there is not enough information forthcoming even after such a long time and the Examiner is being paid a ludicrous amount of money - I can't understand why this has not been challenged by the Board.
Re the changes in CUs, I'm not familiar with the details but from what you say, it looks like the original ethos of the CUs is being completely lost. I don't believe the civil servants or the Government care a whit about that original ethos and just see CUs as another financial institution, and they are worried about the risks. However, having just finished Matt Coopers book on Anglo Irish Bank, I don't think we can whinge about light touch regulation and how it bankrupted the country and then whinge again when the Central Bank imposes onerous requirements on Boards.
There should be a succession planning subcommittee on every single Board and Board members need to send the message out to members when they are looking for new Board members and let people put themselves forward and/or the Board should be talent spotting. There needs to be diversity, so Boards should audit themselves, review their own performance and see what the gaps are. Not everyone should be a professional, the Board should be representative of the membership, but also able to manage the business of the organisation. But the method you describe for appointing Boards wouldn't seem to preclude you from taking people from the membership base, it just needs to be all organised in advance. I don't know of any charity which allows nominations for Board to be taken from the floor of the AGM, again, simply not good practice as you need to let potential nominees know what type of person is needed on the Board, what the requirements are etc etc. I understand the anger of members who resent paying for such a big building, having got no dividends etc - the Board may be right about the gagging order but I can't see any evidence of them fighting against the injustices they say have been perpetrated on them.

roy rodgers

donal, if your volunteering for this job what are you afraid off. you say you are getting nothing for this job so half of nothing is still nothing!!
there is 37000 members apart of this union and if you say is right that the "government have a conspiracy against the credit unions" lets make it on the six one news..
pull every member and staff out of there for a full out strike and demand answers. staff and members can use internet sites like wiki leaks to express themselves. but still haven't?? (I wonder if ye are apart of the conspiracy)

I personally don't think that the government are out to get the credit unions but if you can bring up a good argument about it I'll be backing you all the way because if they, full riots will happen. ( don't throw stones in a glass houses)
The central bank didnt just wake up one morning and decide that it was gonna move into newbridge credit union for no reason. theres no smoke without fire. if the order of business was in line we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Concerned Member

Totally agree!!! The word on the street is that the Central Bank went in to limit the massive liabilities that were about to unfold in NCU. The NCU paid out roughly €11.3million in dividends(4.5%) and interest rebate(2%) in 2008(40 years anniversary) and the dividends reduced in the following years but a dividend per year even at a rate of 1.5% should yeild a monetary value of roughly €3million.

BUT..., there are no dividends being issued and the mantra is the usual spin that the NCU's books are fine and all is great la di da, la di da.

So, if all is fine then why are the Central Bank there??? Is the dividend money being re-directed to solve some questionable dodgy loans and investments??? Is Naas CU now negotiating a massively reduced price on the loan book of Newbridge CU??? Are they selling the building to the government so it can be used for the Social welfare??? and then use that money to again plug the hole???

And in the process of winding up the Newbridge CU, which is more than likely what the official scenario will be(covered over with the spin that there is a merger between Naas and Newbridge to make it look a little less serious and a little bit easier for special interests), every shred of evidence will be put under lock and key, never to be seen again, unless some people within the Newbridge CU board of directors say something, oh yeah, there threatened with a fine and jail,mmmmmmm.

By the way, the Board of Directors had the opportunity to object to the appointment of the special manager in the first place. Why didn't they if everything was fine??? Why don't they grow a pair and say what happened and face the consequences. I can assure you that there would be uproar and numbers in the thousands up in arms if they tried to jail an honest voice about the truth of matters in NCU. The €100,00 fine should be shouldered by the most indebted board member that grows a pair and speaks out and then have them file for bankruptcy in UK and be free of debt in a year. Take one for the team. I know i would if i was in that situation. If you really care about the members of NCU, you will do it!!!

Damien360

Concerned Member wrote: »

By the way, the Board of Directors had the opportunity to object to the appointment of the special manager in the first place. Why didn't they if everything was fine??? Why don't they grow a pair and say what happened and face the consequences. I can assure you that there would be uproar and numbers in the thousands up in arms if they tried to jail an honest voice about the truth of matters in NCU. The €100,00 fine should be shouldered by the most indebted board member that grows a pair and speaks out and then have them file for bankruptcy in UK and be free of debt in a year. Take one for the team. I know i would if i was in that situation. If you really care about the members of NCU, you will do it!!!

Very good point about the fine and likelyhood of them being able to apply it that I had'nt thought of.

Is this covered under the act securing whistleblowers ? i.e. done in the interest of savers and hence the owners of the CU.

A few things are required in info.

1. what was the state of the books before Central Bank appointed Ernst and Young. A huge reserve was put aside of €20m at last AGM.
2. what is the current state of the books
3. has the appointment made a bad situation much worse.
4. Monies were held in cash at banks, what did the banks do with this money.

Concerned Member

Most of the assets are overvalued. The building is worth only a fraction of what it was stated in previous accounts. The loan book is treated as an asset and we all know that due to the hardship that people are facing due to massive government austerity measures on ordinary people, those loans are not fully performing. Other words, the loan asset book is overvalued and doesn't represent the true value.

If you have a loan of €10,000 and are unable to repay, the loan interest continues to accumulate and makes the loan appear even bigger. This along with normal interest that goes with the loan appears on the books as monies owed to the NCU (assets). Overvalued assets!!!

Now we know that there are many loans not being paid and also are poorly performing so that puts a struggle on the financial situation in NCU. Also there were investments in NCU that have appeared to go south. Did NCU have money tied up with Anglo and got stung??? That would also make things tougher.

And again, was there questionable loans given out to certain interests within NCU that tried to benefit with local property apartment blocks that now seem to be in NAMA? Otherwords went south with the property bust. Maybe or Maybe not, just a question based on other info from media excerpts. And if true, then there would be huge questions over loan amounts given out under Credit Union Acts 1966/1997. This would also put a huge strain on the governance and finances of NCU if there were questionable loans given.

Thats probably whats going on in the Naas/Newbridge merger as they call it, Naas are negotiating a value on the NCU loan book before being transferred and then NCU being formally wound up under the disguise of what they call a merger. Then some staff left in Newbridge to manage the affairs of Naas CU re-negotiated loan book maybe. Ahh, it's all a load of smoke and mirrors and i feel so sorry for the ordinary members of NCU which should be the heart of financing local business and local people.

eire2016

Checking in to follow this debate.

raven136

Any truth that there is about 10 loans which are in the 6 figures and wont ever be repaid?
Heard some interesting stuff about the loans that were given out in the good times but these rumors may not be true
200-1 loan for one account?
some very decent community people on the board but a few who led the decent astray.
That building didnt come cheap and there was no need for it

guil

I was working there plastering as the extension was built. Was asked to do little or nothing each day and my boss was getting 200/250 a day fore and another lad.

Not sure when it was but I got a loan of 6k. A relation was on the board of directors and got me to meet them there on a Saturday morning, filled out the application and told the cashier to give me the loan that it didn't have to go to the committee. I only had a few hundred in saving as well and top ups were way to easy to get.

I'm sure it happened a lot and with much bigger amounts as well. I heard from a reliable source that there was loans issued to developers of between 1-3 million that have never had a cent paid back.

honestbroker

Have you paid back the loan?

badgerbroc11

If the merger goes ahead the ordinary people of Newbridge will have a strong Credit Union again in their town.

The save Newbridge action group are 18 months too late. When the liquidator (special manager) was appointed this group should have been set up. Quotes in the paper (if true) from the protest at the Central Bank are damming on those involved. Yes, I completely agree that the Central Bank should be providing much more information to the members, however those leading the NCU action group have a moral responsibility to tell the truth. Not only were their speeches inaccurate, they were also misleading.

The number of people who turned up confirm what is my belief - that the majority of members (26800 out of 27000 in this case) are members of the credit union for what it is and it's ethos. As long as their money is safe and they can get a loan, the majority of members are not concerned who the directors are, our what town they are from.

roy rodgers

If the merger does go ahead the credit union will be no different than any other financial institutions. Where ya won't get a loan to go on a holiday or to a extra few pound for Christmas any more because it will run on a paper base policies and not as a local base concern with interest rates of 9% plus with no dividends at the end if year.

I for one didn't sign up to a financial institution like this I signed up to a locally run union where the people come first all on local bases..
If I wanted to join naas I would of.
What do the naas share holders think about taking on new bridges bad debt?? Have they had a meeting on this yet??
I not paying off anymore of my loan from this week with newbridge credit union because they haven't helped me out over the last few years just took all my savings and stuck me to the wall. And when I requested where my savings is gone I get no answers as I want every thing in writing to see where its gone.
That gagging order is taking the pixx it was my money..

L1011

roy rodgers wrote: »

If the merger does go ahead the credit union will be no different than any other financial institutions. Where ya won't get a loan to go on a holiday or to a extra few pound for Christmas any more because it will run on a paper base policies and not as a local base concern with interest rates of 9% plus with no dividends at the end if year.

...

What do the naas share holders think about taking on new bridges bad debt??

You seem to be failing to realise that running a financial institution without proper policies and interest rates is what lead to that bad debt in the first place.

guil

honestbroker wrote: »

Have you paid back the loan?

What business is it of yours?

roy rodgers

MYOB wrote: »

You seem to be failing to realise that running a financial institution without proper policies and interest rates is what lead to that bad debt in the first place.

the credit union has been around in newbridge for the last 45 years and was doing right well until greed took over the directors and lost the whole ethos of the union cause they were in the same job for too long..
they gambled on the Celtic tiger like Anglo and that was there down fall

nuac

btw if a loan is backed by shares, a CU is entitled if there is default to transfer from the savings account to the loan account.

Some posters here do not seem to acknowledge that

roy rodgers

nuac wrote: »

btw if a loan is backed by shares, a CU is entitled if there is default to transfer from the savings account to the loan account.

Some posters here do not seem to acknowledge that

yeah grand but why couldn't they not restructure loans when they defaulted in the first place??
they only want to resturcture my loan now after when all the savings is gone and four years later.
i

Muahahaha

Can I just ask two questions of those in the know of Newbridge Credit Union ?

During the boom did they lend money to property developers ?
Did the credit unions charter permit them to lend money for speculation on land ?

Because if they were lending money to property developers and in doing so contravening their own lending criteria then the board have a lot to answer for. If that is the case and customers lost money because of it then the customers themselves should be taking civil legal actions against the members of the board.

To me there seems to be a lot of shouting about the Central Bank's role in this. But am getting the impression that this shouting against the big bad Central Bank is nothing more than a smokescreen to distract from the reasons as to why the Credit Union arrived at the position it is in. That is the real crux of the issue, not the winding down of it.

roy rodgers

Muahahaha wrote: »

Can I just ask two questions of those in the know of Newbridge Credit Union ?

During the boom did they lend money to property developers ?
Did the credit unions charter permit them to lend money for speculation on land ?

Because if they were lending money to property developers and in doing so contravening their own lending criteria then the board have a lot to answer for. If that is the case and customers lost money because of it then the customers themselves should be taking civil legal actions against the members of the board.

To me there seems to be a lot of shouting about the Central Bank's role in this. But am getting the impression that this shouting against the big bad Central Bank is nothing more than a smokescreen to distract from the reasons as to why the Credit Union arrived at the position it is in. That is the real crux of the issue, not the winding down of it.

totally agree with you on this one the directors have a lot to answer for.
I was speaking to some one from the town last weekend and who would be in the know as he has a business in the town for many a year and he was telling me that there is delvelopers that got money from the credit union while they weren't even members of the union.
also I believe that there is a solicitor involved that practices very close to the union. All his property are up for Sale right now.
but this is why we need the agm straight away to find out all of these speculations

Amused051

I think it's very much common knowledge that there were very big loans given out during the boom to local developers, including some into 7 figures...which was definitely outside their charter. The point is without an agm for nearly 2 years no one knows exactly how bad things are..especially with the gagging order.

Any word on the rumour that their showpiece in the town is being sold off??

Muahahaha

roy rodgers wrote: »

totally agree with you on this one the directors have a lot to answer for.
I was speaking to some one from the town last weekend and who would be in the know as he has a business in the town for many a year and he was telling me that there is delvelopers that got money from the credit union while they weren't even members of the union.
also I believe that there is a solicitor involved that practices very close to the union. All his property are up for Sale right now.
but this is why we need the agm straight away to find out all of these speculations

Thanks, I had suspected as much and seem to remember reading something about Newbridge CU and developers a few years ago.

Sounds to me that it is an EGM that is needed rather than waiting for the next scheduled AGM. A minority of shareholders should be able to force an EGM to be held, especially if they are claiming board members were acting against their interests. The Articles of Association of the CU should outline the procedures to be followed to call an EGM and they are a public document, available from the CRO for a small fee.

Dividends aside did anyone actually lose any savings from the CU? Or did the €100k bank guarantee cover credit unions too ? Are there any pending cases against the board for negligence ?

I am not sure what the corporate structure of the CU is but if it falls under the Companies Act 1963 and is a company with limited liability (which a majority of companies are) then people who have lost money have a case to recover that money. This is because under the Companies Act 1963 a director loses the priviledge to limited liability if they are found to be contravention of the legal obligations to shareholders. These are called fiduciary duties and include the following-
-Duty to act in good faith and best interests of the company
-Duty to use powers for the proper purpose
-Duty not to fetter their discretion
-Duty to avoid all conflicts of interest

Directors also have a legal duty not to go beyond the powers given to them in the Articles of Association. So if it is the case that they were lending millions out to people who weren't even members and were lending for development purposes when the Articles did not include this facility then the directors themselves could now be personally liable for the debts incurred as a result of their actions, i.e. by breaking the law the directors lose the protection of limited liability and the personal assets of the directors themselves now become fair game for people who have suffered as a result of their actions. That means even their family home is not safe if they don't have the money to pay up. Limited liability is a great thing but as soon as you break company law then your own house and investments come into the game, stepping outside of company law is a pretty dumb thing to do and if the directors did it then people who have lost money here should be banging down their solicitors door and taking these people to the cleaners because from what I can see with the info provided so far it is a pretty open and shut case.

badgerbroc11

Muahahaha wrote: »

Sounds to me that it is an EGM that is needed rather than waiting for the next scheduled AGM. A minority of shareholders should be able to force an EGM to be held, especially if they are claiming board members were acting against their interests. The Articles of Association of the CU should outline the procedures to be followed to call an EGM and they are a public document, available from the CRO for a small fee.

I am not sure what the corporate structure of the CU is but if it falls under the Companies Act 1963 and is a company with limited liability

Muahahaha,

Credit Unions are Ltd companies but fall outside the scope of the CRO. Back in the day they were under the eye of the Registrar of Friendly societies, over time this subsection as moved from the CRO to the Central Bank.

When it comes to EGM's etc, the Credit Union Acts 1997 - 2012 as amended is where you need to look too.

A lot of the new banking legislation now also applies to Credit Unions, e.g. The Credit Institutions Stabilisation Act 2010 etc. which gives the Central Bank far reaching powers.

roy rodgers wrote: »

What do the naas share holders think about taking on new bridges bad debt?? Have they had a meeting on this yet??

Naas Credit Union members are probably not happy as their Credit Union is being well run and understands it ethos, unlike the CU they have to go in and rescue.

roy rodgers wrote: »

I not paying off anymore of my loan from this week with newbridge credit union because they haven't helped me out over the last few years just took all my savings and stuck me to the wall. And when I requested where my savings is gone I get no answers as I want every thing in writing to see where its gone.

Sounds like you have not being your loan anyway. If they have taken your shares against your loan they have helped you by reducing your loan balance and reducing the amount of interest you have to pay. To use this as an excuse not to repay your neighbours money is one of the reasons why your Credit Union is in the position that it needs to be rescued in the first place.

roy rodgers

believe me I was paying my loan and always had an on going loan for the last 17 years. It just amazes me that they couldn't restructure the loan till all the saving were gone even thou they were told about the situation over 4 years ago. But that's a different issue from the topic here. Again they lost the ethos of the credit union.

badgerbroc11

roy rodgers wrote: »

Again they lost the ethos of the credit union.

I agree completely

I'm not a member of Newbridge but I did see their 2009 annual report. The average loan size was a frightening 17.5k.

The average cus average loan is typically 4.5 - 5.5k. The only way possible to get to a figure of 17.5k is to issue a number of 6 figure and 7 figure loans.

The reason why the directors have remained so quiet is that they have no defence.

DoctorBoo

The reason why the directors have remained so quiet is that there is a gagging order in place threatening them with a 100,000 euro fine and/or 3 years in prison.
There's a lot of speculative nonsense written on this thread. The Credit Union has been a vital financial resource for the town and community groups within it for over 40 years - we shouldn't be so quick to welcome its demise. When there's no credit Union anymore we will be left to the mercies of the banks and the moneylenders.

245

DoctorBoo wrote: »

When there's no credit Union anymore we will be left to the mercies of the banks and the moneylenders.

"The Central Bank spokesman added that credit union services would remain available in Newbridge"

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/newbridge-credit-union-members-oppose-merger-and-building-sale-1.1489879

I'm guessing that there will be less 'non typical lending' from now on so maybe those in need of six and seven figure loans will indeed be driven towards moneylenders

guil

DoctorBoo wrote: »

The reason why the directors have remained so quiet is that there is a gagging order in place threatening them with a 100,000 euro fine and/or 3 years in prison.
There's a lot of speculative nonsense written on this thread. The Credit Union has been a vital financial resource for the town and community groups within it for over 40 years - we shouldn't be so quick to welcome its demise. When there's no credit Union anymore we will be left to the mercies of the banks and the moneylenders.

Bollox. In 2011 I needed 500 to pay 2 court fines for a van that ended up still in my name months after I sold it. 500 poxy quid or I was going to prison for 5 days. No way in hell would they give it to me cos I got a loan of 2k a few months before. I pleaded with them and told them I would lose my job and be able to pay nothing and they still said no.

Red Crow

guil wrote: »

Bollox. In 2011 I needed 500 to pay 2 court fines for a van that ended up still in my name months after I sold it. 500 poxy quid or I was going to prison for 5 days. No way in hell would they give it to me cos I got a loan of 2k a few months before. I pleaded with them and told them I would lose my job and be able to pay nothing and they still said no.

They don't have to give you anything and obviously you weren't a candidate for a loan. I don't know how you ended up in court over a van that was still in your name but surely that was your responsibility to sort out those fines and not the credit unions.

Also the still in my name excuse doesn't wash. If you couldn't post a log book with the other persons name on it then you shouldn't be looking for loans off anyone.

guil

Eli Manning wrote: »

They don't have to give you anything and obviously you weren't a candidate for a loan. I don't know how you ended up in court over a van that was still in your name but surely that was your responsibility to sort out those fines and not the credit unions.

Also the still in my name excuse doesn't wash. If you couldn't post a log book with the other persons name on it then you shouldn't be looking for loans off anyone.

Obviously I was a candidate as you put it if they give me a loan a few months prior and really I don't care what you think of about the tax book. Also point out where did I say it was the problem of the cu. my point being I was making full payments plus a but extra on the loan and they would not give me the small loan I was looking for the ensure I was still able to make the payments

badgerbroc11

Eli Manning wrote: »

They don't have to give you anything and obviously you weren't a candidate for a loan.

Eli, I'd suggest you read Nora Herlihy's autobiography which outlines the motivations behind her setting up the Credit Union movement in Ireland. It's exactly for reasons like this that the movement was founded.

There are thousands of people the length and breath of this country who have avoided jail., who have got to keep their home etc because their cu was there for them.

I looked at the agm report of my credit union for 2007 compared it with Newbridge 2007 accounts which are on the website. For our credit union to reach the same average loan size as that of Newbridge our cu would have to issue the equivalent 170 loans of €750,000.

So a cu which could give 6 & 7 figure loans to some members couldn't give a mere €500 to a member facing jail.

The only question which should be asked is why the Central Bank didn't close it down years earlier.

iamdonie1984

Interesting thread.

Guil, the Credit Union is not obliged to give you a loan. They "should" assess your circumstances and make a decision from there. Credit Unions in 2013 have got to be more strict on lending (given the level of defaults), and although I am huge supporter of the movement itself, they too got sucked in to the "Credit Boom". Some more so than others.


If you were refused a loan, there is a reason, for example, poor credit history (which IS a factor for Credit Unions), or they felt you could not meet the repayments. Or they felt the "van was in my name story" was horse manure.

Re - Newbridge Credit Union - From what I read on it, it sounds like lending policy was far to loose during the boom. They got so bogged down in large value loans, and now they have no idea how to recover it.

Putting an accountant in there hasn't and won't make a shred of difference. Isn't it amazing that the same firm who audited Anglo and found nothing, has sent someone into Newbridge. Amazing.

Feel sorry for the members and for the people who served the Credit Union with honesty and in the best interests of it's members.

roy rodgers

The Central Bank has confirmed that Newbridge Credit Union's building will not be required following completion of a merger between Newbridge and Naas CU The Central Bank is driving the amalgamation, which should be completed before the end of December.
It will create a credit union with 59,000 members
Newbridge CU's board valued the purpose built offices as worth €15.8 million in 2010
In an up-date issued to the High Court, the Central Bank has confirmed this new entity will not require Newbridge CU's offices as part of the transaction.
However, neither the Central Bank nor the Special Manager has sold, or agreed to sell, the Newbridge Credit Union building.
Until new premises are secured in Newbridge, it is expected that the combined credit union’s Newbridge operation will continue to operate from Newbridge Credit Union’s current premises.





Is there anything stopping the people of newbridge closing there accounts when the almagamtion happens a setting up a "the new newbridge credit union" or will any thing like that be shot down straight away.