Plasma or Photonics Physics

Schaeler2013

Which would be the better branch of Physics to go into for a post-grad qualification i.e. Photonics Physics or Plasma Physics?

Thats is, in regards to which potentially offers more opportunities. Or might this be broadly similar?

Or what employment opportunities might each offer?

Or are there 'better' Physics fields to go into post-grad?

Below is a list of modules in each post-grad.

Photonics Physics

Solid State Physics
Growth, Processing and Characterisation
Photodetectors and Photodetection
Devices, Lasers and Amplifiers
High Speed and Integrated Photonics
Fibre Optic Communications


Plasma Physics (not all of these are compulsary)

Introductory Plasma Physics
Introductory Experimental Plasma Physics
Introductory Plasma Theory and Simulation
Plasma Short Projects
Magnetic Fusion Plasma
Laser Produced Plasmas
Low Temperature Plasmas
Astrophysical Plasma
Plasma Research Project

Schaeler2013

Apparently in the Plasma Physics course 74% have gone on to do PhDs, and 13% had gone to work in the private sector.

74% does seem high, and I did wonder if this was because they were unable to obtain employment after graduation.

citrus burst

What are you interested in doing?

Both of the choices would be good for getting a job in the industry, but what ever you choose will define how your early career pans out.

If it were me I'd pick photonics but thats just my personal opinion. I'd say you wouldn't really get a full grasp of plasma until you do a PhD on the subject.

Schaeler2013

citrus burst wrote: »

What are you interested in doing?

I'm interested in Physics generally, so I could probably like either one.

citrus burst wrote: »

If it were me I'd pick photonics but thats just my personal opinion. I'd say you wouldn't really get a full grasp of plasma until you do a PhD on the subject.

I think with Photonics there will most likely be a lot more opportunities available after graduation.

Lbeard

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

Apparently in the Plasma Physics course 74% have gone on to do PhDs, and 13% had gone to work in the private sector.

74% does seem high, and I did wonder if this was because they were unable to obtain employment after graduation.

At the minute the only work in plasma physics is in research. If you want work in research you have to have a PhD.

Photonics looks like a waste of time.

citrus burst

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

I'm interested in Physics generally, so I could probably like either one.

I assume you have a BSC in physics or a related field then?

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

I think with Photonics there will most likely be a lot more opportunities available after graduation.

For me photonics is the more practical job tailored choice. Again its all opinion and knowing the industry/field you want to move into

Lbeard

citrus burst wrote: »

For me photonics is the more practical job tailored choice.

There are lots of photonics in use in the world - but it is just diodes on network cards. The guys making big money laying cables are big manly men school drops outs - with the occasional engineer. They're just laying stuff and though there would be a positive benefit in understand how the stuff works, it's not necessary.

Builders have now set themselves up in the business of erecting radio masts. There's some very complicated science in planning a radio network - that physics graduates, even PhDs would come in useful for. But you can always just flog up the antenna in any old high spot, and it will work or not after a fashion. In Ireland a good bit of the time they're just flogged up. And there have been instances where optic cable was flogged down by the same guys and rendered useless.

Go to any telecoms company in Ireland. And it's possible that the only people who know how the photonics the company relies on works, will be on the lowest pay grade. Human Resources generalists, etc being of fair more value to the company.

Schaeler2013

Lbeard wrote: »

Photonics looks like a waste of time.

Why do you say that? Or did you mean Plasma?

Schaeler2013

citrus burst wrote: »

I assume you have a BSC in physics

Yes

Lbeard

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

Why do you say that? Or did you mean Plasma?

No, I meant photonics.

99.99% of people who work with photonics, have no specialist knowledge of how it works. There are very very few jobs in the field for specialists.

And I would also say 99.99% of people who work in telecoms do not even know how a phone works.

Plasma physics is currently research only, as there are no real commercial applications for plasma technology as it stands. It's nuclear fusion. But there are people building these things. And even if you can't get a job you'll be able to build a nuclear reactor in your garage.

Nuclear fusion will arrive. It could be a great industry for specialists. But how the world works, employers will avoid employing specialists. The average pay for an ESB electrician is 70,000. The vast majority of these guys would only have a leaving cert. They finished school, then "got the call" (that is some relative sorted out a job for them). Everyone loves technology, most hate the nerds who make it.

Plasma is just research at the minute. There are companies doing private research in it. You could call them up, ask what they're looking for.

Plasma is real hardcore physics, photonics is literally sticking a fairy light on a network card.

Schaeler2013

I see what you mean Lbeard.

Would you recommend any particular Physics area for an MSc, other than Plasma or Photonics?

Lbeard

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

I see what you mean Lbeard.

Would you recommend any particular Physics area for an MSc, other than Plasma or Photonics?

If you're going to end up working outside of physics - it doesn't make much of a difference what you study. Though calling yourself a nuclear physicist, does sound more impressive than a photonician.

Plasma may have applications in finance. Not the actual plasma, but the understanding of the maths. You could bluff your way into a finance job.

thecornflake

Lbeard wrote: »

No, I meant photonics.

99.99% of people who work with photonics, have no specialist knowledge of how it works. There are very very few jobs in the field for specialists.

And I would also say 99.99% of people who work in telecoms do not even know how a phone works.

Plasma physics is currently research only, as there are no real commercial applications for plasma technology as it stands. It's nuclear fusion. But there are people building these things. And even if you can't get a job you'll be able to build a nuclear reactor in your garage.

Nuclear fusion will arrive. It could be a great industry for specialists. But how the world works, employers will avoid employing specialists. The average pay for an ESB electrician is 70,000. The vast majority of these guys would only have a leaving cert. They finished school, then "got the call" (that is some relative sorted out a job for them). Everyone loves technology, most hate the nerds who make it.

Plasma is just research at the minute. There are companies doing private research in it. You could call them up, ask what they're looking for.

Plasma is real hardcore physics, photonics is literally sticking a fairy light on a network card.

Ehhhh wut ? You serious ?

ZorbaTehZ

Schaeler2013, almost everything that Lbeard has written thus far in the thread is complete nonsense - ignore it.

Lbeard

thecornflake wrote: »

Ehhhh wut ? You serious ?

Yes, I am serious.


It's a complete and utter waste of time. It is just sticking a fairy light on a network card.

Lbeard

ZorbaTehZ wrote: »

Schaeler2013, almost everything that Lbeard has written thus far in the thread is complete nonsense - ignore it.

It is sticking a fairy light on a network card....and that is all there is to it.

Do you have some connection with a photonics course?

citrus burst

Lbeard wrote: »

It is sticking a fairy light on a network card....and that is all there is to it.

Do you have some connection with a photonics course?

Eh photonics is the study of light interactions with matter, pretty important

Schaeler2013

Are you guys aware of any occupations in Ireland which require someone to specifically have an MSc in Photonics?

i.e. a job where a Physics BSc alone would not suffice.

I was having a quick look, and couldn't readily find anything.

Lbeard

citrus burst wrote: »

Eh photonics is the study of light interactions with matter, pretty important

I know what it is. I studied it. It's a complete waste of time. It's not serious science. It's technical stuff you'd learn on the job. It is just fairy lights on network cards. It's electronics and a little optics. The science of a CD player.

In terms of employment opportunities. Call the human resource manager of the Irish company with the most fibre cable (I know who this is). Ask them are they chomping at the bit to hire photonicians, they won't have a clue what you're on about. Not that they have clue about anything.

citrus burst

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

Are you guys aware of any occupations in Ireland which require someone to specifically have an MSc in Photonics?

i.e. a job where a Physics BSc alone would not suffice.

I was having a quick look, and couldn't readily find anything.

Not specifically photonics, but at the same time not specifically anything. A lot of the MSc/EEng courses these days in Ireland are tailored to suit the needs of certain industries. The two big one's at the moment are the biomedical industry and of course semiconductors.

If you look at all the big universities they will all have some sort of masters course tailored to at least one of these industries, with different names.

UCD-Nanotechnology
UCC-Photonics
DCU-Electronic Engineering
UL-something similar can't remember it off the top of my head
etc

If you read between the lines you'll realise most of these courses are pretty much the same, with one or two differences, the main difference being what you major in.

This is why I've asked you what you are interested in. At the end of day I can only advise you on what I know, you're the one who is going to have to make the decision. Some companies are happy with a level 8, some want a level 9.

thecornflake

Lbeard wrote: »

Yes, I am serious.


It's a complete and utter waste of time. It is just sticking a fairy light on a network card.

Looooool, this guy is gas. Please enlighten us further.

I think Newtons laws are useless, what did they ever do for us ?
Quantum mechanics, that's another waste of time, what ever came of that ?


Plasma is so useful it can't be overstated. Also photonics is of major importance everywhere.

What degree did you do Lbeard ? I'd be curious to know when you did photonics did they teach it in a bad way ?

Lbeard

thecornflake wrote: »

Looooool, this guy is gas. Please enlighten us further.

You're trying to goad me, aren't you.

I think Newtons laws are useless, what did they ever do for us ?
Quantum mechanics, that's another waste of time, what ever came of that ?

But useful to know to who? As Oliver Heaveside said "Shall I refuse my dinner because I do not fully understand the process of digestion?"

We live on the planet of the muppets. Few people know anything about anything. And they think anyone who does is weird.

Plasma is so useful it can't be overstated. Also photonics is of major importance everywhere.

Yes it is. And there's a huge amount of it used. But, like the average electrician wouldn't know one end of an electron from the other (and please don't give me a silly correction on that statement ). The communications cards are just network cards, and then a pretty simple circuits for the Light Amplication through Stimulated Emission Fairy Light. Phototransistors and a simple circuit for those too. Everything else is not rocket science.

The commercial applications of photonics means that only a minuscule number of people need to have any specialist knowledge in it.

You could do a masters in mobile phone technology. But unless you get a job with the equipment manufacturers you will have acquired a body of useless knowledge.

What degree did you do Lbeard ? I'd be curious to know when you did photonics did they teach it in a bad way ?

No, it's not taught in a bad way, there just isn't that much to it.

Education is not really that valued. The highest earning person in their 20s that I know, is a dope - he barely has a leaving cert and he is dopey, but it's the kind of dopey people like. He works for one of the big software companies, they pay him a lot of money, he's just an idiot they fly around the world to talk to other idiots who don't have a clue. And what I love about these people, is since they're earning so much money, they think they somehow magically know things they don't. HP had to write off more than 8 billion from their purchase of Autonomy. Because the muppets didn't realise they were buying something worse than a turkey.

The question is, Is photonics worth doing? ....In terms of making a living from the qualification it is not.

IRWolfie-

I am the resident troll, calling other people by this term, and thus going off topic is not tolerated... nor are personal attacks on people, but I'd rather like to see an actual argument on the topic from both of you because I would be interested to see various perspectives on the value of postgraduate education...

Lbeard

There are no billy goats on this forum, should in future you see one, there is a report button to facilitate the resection of any billy goat infestation that may be present...

Schaeler2013

Lbeard wrote: »

The question is, Is photonics worth doing? ....In terms of making a living from the qualification it is not.

Ultimately, this is the question I am asking myself. I do not want to do an MSc purely for the sake of the qualification itself.

I think if I do an MSc in a physics-related field I would be wise to go into an area of Physics that I would be prepared to follow up with a PhD.

Or simply do a Physics MSc which does not restrict me to the same extent as specialising in a specific branch of Physics at Masters level.

I have noticed that UCD have begun a new Simulation Science MSc

http://www.ucd.ie/simulationscience/msc/modules.html

Presumably this might keep open options for going into scientific research, engineering, or finance since it covers modelling.

I'd be interested in hearing anyones thoughts on this course. Lbeard, or anyone else.

Lbeard

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

Ultimately, this is the question I am asking myself. I do not want to do an MSc purely for the sake of the qualification itself.

It can make a big difference. Anyone running a course is going to tell you there are millions of jobs for graduates of their course. And this is often not true.

I think if I do an MSc in a physics-related field I would be wise to go into an area of Physics that I would be prepared to follow up with a PhD.

The plasma course looks like something good for that.

I have noticed that UCD have begun a new Simulation Science MSc

http://www.ucd.ie/simulationscience/msc/modules.html

Presumably this might keep open options for going into scientific research, engineering, or finance since it covers modelling.

The UCD course looks as though it's aimed at preparing physics graduates for working in finance.

And I bet the plasma course would cover the same statistical modelling. With photonics you will not be doing anything like that.

Then maybe there will be a glut of physics graduates trying to get into finance.

You have also to think of the snob value of which university you chose. People are snobs.

Schaeler2013

Lbeard wrote: »

You have also to think of the snob value of which university you chose. People are snobs.

UCD is ranked 131 in the world in terms of research, and therefore presumably considered a good university.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2012

Lbeard

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

UCD is ranked 131 in the world in terms of research, and therefore presumably considered a good university.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2012

Yes. In some rankings it's in the top 50. These rankings mean something to some people. UCD is considered an elite university.

It's like this, if you're interviewed by some people, they would be far more impressed by a degree in embroidery from Trinity than any degree you could mention from the Institutes of Technology. Trinity and UCD are like Ireland's Oxbridge.

Americans often come to Ireland to do a masters in UCD or Trinity, after their primary degree from University of Minnesota, because it does have that kind of recognised elite cache back in the states.

Schaeler2013

Lbeard wrote: »

It's like this, if you're interviewed by some people, they would be far more impressed by a degree in embroidery from Trinity than any degree you could mention from the Institutes of Technology. Trinity and UCD are like Ireland's Oxbridge.

The Photonics MSc course is in UCC, Cork.

The Plasma Physics MSc course is in Queen's University, Belfast.

Any thoughts on this?

Lbeard

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

The Photonics MSc course is in UCC, Cork.

The Plasma Physics MSc course is in Queen's University, Belfast.

Any thoughts on this?

Queen's has definitely more snob value.

Lbeard

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

The Photonics MSc course is in UCC, Cork.

To be really honest. I can't understand why they're giving this course. Maybe 20 years ago, or a little more. This stuff was the cutting edge.....back in the 70s.

SOL

I am willing to guess that the course title is what needs updating, I would imagine what they teach is on the money. Otherwise, in a market like this, the course would end up empty.

I would say this, if you are planning on doing a PhD, why not just go straight into it from your degree?

If you are planning on getting a job, then figure out what you need to do to get that job by asking your potential employers or reading job ads...

Schaeler2013

SOL wrote: »

I would say this, if you are planning on doing a PhD, why not just go straight into it from your degree?

I have spoken with a PhD student, and he informed me that all the other PhD students he knows, including himself, all completed an MSc of one type or another before beginning their PhDs.

So I don't know how wise it would be to proceed without an MSc?

From what he told me I'm assuming it's only a small percentage who go straight from a BSc into a PhD.

SOL

Hmmm, maybe it depends on the university, but I would say less than half the people I know did a masters before starting their PhD. It's a very common thing on the continent, but if you are doing a 4 year degree then it is quite possible to start a PhD straight away, not that I'm recommending it, but if it is what you want to do then why faff around if you can find a PhD.

Out of interest, what stage are you at? Have you finished your undergrad or are you finishing this year?

Morbert

Schaeler2013 wrote: »

The Photonics MSc course is in UCC, Cork.

The Plasma Physics MSc course is in Queen's University, Belfast.

Any thoughts on this?

UCC's Tyndall institute is involved in a lot of photonics and nanoelectronics research. The MSc course might be useful if you are interested in a career in research/industry, as it would allow you to readily move into a PhD position in Tyndall (assuming you don't want to dive straight into a PhD).

http://www.tyndall.ie/