Green cert?

Conmaicne Mara

Got a text Friday morning that they're trying to arrange a Green cert locally and would I be interested. Was in the hill a lot of the day and travelling also and forgot to ring them to find out info.

Seeing as it's now the weekend I won't be able ring them until Monday morning. Just wondering could ya lot fill me in a bit on what it actually is and what the benefits to me might be?

Finding it hard to find out much online about it, seems a bit vague.

Thanks

moy83

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Got a text Friday morning that they're trying to arrange a Green cert locally and would I be interested. Was in the hill a lot of the day and travelling also and forgot to ring them to find out info.

Seeing as it's now the weekend I won't be able ring them until Monday morning. Just wondering could ya lot fill me in a bit on what it actually is and what the benefits to me might be?

Finding it hard to find out much online about it, seems a bit vague.

Thanks

I heard nothing about it but I'd be interested in it if it could be done locally and didnt take too much time out of my busy schedule :rolleyes:
Who sent that txt Con ?
Does that cert make much difference in transferring the farm now ?

nashmach

moy83 wrote: »

I heard nothing about it but I'd be interested in it if it could be done locally and didnt take too much time out of my busy schedule :rolleyes:
Who sent that txt Con ?
Does that cert make much difference in transferring the farm now ?

If you are under 35, it will reduce stamp duty by 50% at the moment.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this come in as part of the latest CAP reform under the young farmer definitions.

Did it part time myself and it takes quite a lot of work!

Conmaicne Mara

moy83 wrote: »

I heard nothing about it but I'd be interested in it if it could be done locally and didnt take too much time out of my busy schedule :rolleyes:
Who sent that txt Con ?
Does that cert make much difference in transferring the farm now ?

Pm sent.

nashmach wrote: »

If you are under 35, it will reduce stamp duty by 50% at the moment.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this come in as part of the latest CAP reform under the young farmer definitions.

Did it part time myself and it takes quite a lot of work!

Is it any use to an ould codger just gone 35? I wouldn't mind doing it if there was benefit to me at the end of it.

nashmach

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Pm sent.



Is it any use to an ould codger just gone 35? I wouldn't mind doing it if there was benefit to me at the end of it.

Not at the minute, but COULD be post 2015.

Conmaicne Mara

nashmach wrote: »

Not at the minute, but COULD be post 2015.

Yeah, I suppose it would be no harm to have it in the back pocket once it's being done locally. I'll have to give them a ring Monday morning. What sort of stuff is covered of is the "Green cert" a kind of catch all term for courses with different modules?

nashmach

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose it would be no harm to have it in the back pocket once it's being done locally. I'll have to give them a ring Monday morning. What sort of stuff is covered of is the "Green cert" a kind of catch all term for courses with different modules?

It tends to be specialised for a certain area of farming, e.g. beef, tillage or sheep and then some common sections such as finance and health and safety etc.

pg141

Could someone post where you could sign up and get the course materials for this? I would love to do it online / part time if possible

Thanks

munkus

nashmach wrote: »

If you are under 35, it will reduce stamp duty by 50% at the moment.

Nash,

If you're under 35, have cert and transferring the farm, you'll pay 0% stamp duty. This was extended in the last budget to cover this year and possibly extended in the next one too.

nashmach

munkus wrote: »

nashmach wrote: »

If you are under 35, it will reduce stamp duty by 50% at the moment.

Nash,

If you're under 35, have cert and transferring the farm, you'll pay 0% stamp duty. This was extended in the last budget to cover this year and possibly extended in the next one too.

Munkus, apologies, yes you are correct.

I was thinking of interfamily transfer.

stanflt

Is there much to offer from the course- personally I have no green cert and have been trying to do it for the last few years except I get turned down time again

They want me to take a year off farming

I questioned the content if the course in ballyhaise and they weren't happy with my attitude as I felt the dairy had little or no relevance to on farm procedures

Low and behold teagasc still send groups of young farmers and old wise heads here to see how the farm is run

Groups from Ireland and international ie New Zealand and england

Ironic cause I have no Ag education!!!!!!!

nashmach

stanflt wrote: »

Is there much to offer from the course- personally I have no green cert and have been trying to do it for the last few years except I get turned down time again

They want me to take a year off farming

I questioned the content if the course in ballyhaise and they weren't happy with my attitude as I felt the dairy had little or no relevance to on farm procedures

Low and behold teagasc still send groups of young farmers and old wise heads here to see how the farm is run

Groups from Ireland and international ie New Zealand and england

Ironic cause I have no Ag education!!!!!!!

To be honest I'd question it too but hard to be relevant to all farms.

jobseek

Hello,
Was half inclined to sign up for a greencert course recently, off hand I cant think exactly what the price was, but I know if you had any other qualifications it doubled, does any one know why would this be,I think it was to be around 2000,a lot of money for something that may/may not be of any benefit to me?
http://www.teagasc.ie/areaunits/mayo/Media/agricultural_training_for_young_farmers.asp
I see that the greencert has been replaced with this, what's peoples opinions is it worth having a greencert even if only farming part time

Susie120704

Is there such a thing as a part-time online course for the green cert? The Teagasc one will require 25 days in attendance and 20 of them would be during the school year when I can't honestly justify taking time off.
I am taking on a lease in January and do I need the Green Cert to get quota and a Single Farm Payment? It is the only reason I would do the course as I just will find the time spent studying a really tight squeeze timewise

nashmach

Susie120704 wrote: »

Is there such a thing as a part-time online course for the green cert? The Teagasc one will require 25 days in attendance and 20 of them would be during the school year when I can't honestly justify taking time off.
I am taking on a lease in January and do I need the Green Cert to get quota and a Single Farm Payment? It is the only reason I would do the course as I just will find the time spent studying a really tight squeeze timewise

That is your only option unless one is being run through a local centre over a few nights a week for a few years.

I'm pretty sure (but someone else can clarify) that it is not required for the SFP or quota situations you mention.

Susie120704

nashmach wrote: »

That is your only option unless one is being run through a local centre over a few nights a week for a few years.

I'm pretty sure (but someone else can clarify) that it is not required for the SFP or quota situations you mention.

I must investigate if I can get the SFP without the Green Cert cos getting it would be the only way of getting set up money for the new farm as we are tight squeezed for money at the moment

k mac

Susie120704 wrote: »

I must investigate if I can get the SFP without the Green Cert cos getting it would be the only way of getting set up money for the new farm as we are tight squeezed for money at the moment

I bought entitlements a few years ago in order to get a SFP and i have no green cert. I am 35 now and in the process of getting the land transferred so too late for me. Not sure even if i was under 35 would i do it alot of time to take off work, wages lost etc. and not sure is it off much benefit as regards what you will learn.

Susie120704

We bought entitlements for the farm my husband farms but I was hoping not to have to go down that route again but if I can't source a decent green cert that will probably be the route I will have to go. It is a pity as I have so much to learn and I would like the education but c'est la vie

freedominacup

k mac wrote: »

I bought entitlements a few years ago in order to get a SFP and i have no green cert. I am 35 now and in the process of getting the land transferred so too late for me. Not sure even if i was under 35 would i do it alot of time to take off work, wages lost etc. and not sure is it off much benefit as regards what you will learn.

Check the revenue leaflets SD2, SD2A, and SD2B. I can't remember the details but if you have any form of qualification you may be able to get equivalance to the green cert for very little effort. The revenue will be trying to get you to get eqivalance from fetac to the current green cert which is a level 6 qualification but at your age the green cert from 20 years ago is more relevant especially if you did any other course at the time. Teagasc are the competent authority for equivalance upto at least '99. There are literally hairdressing courses that can be certified as equivalent to the old green cert by adding the 80 or 180 hour course to them.

Get the leaflets and pay close attention to the transitional requirements section of each one. It's worth looking up the act too which can be done online. The revenue will try to get you to get equivalance to the new green cert, the old green cert is equivalent to the new green cert so you need to prove equivalance to the old green cert. It took months for us to figure this out and quite a while to get it over the line after that. Teagasc were very helpful but we have always been clients of theirs. You'll have to do most of the legwork yourself though. Any professional worth their salt has a full desk and for things that are outside the norm they will be no more au fait with than you are. You need to know your own file. It took me 2 years but it was well worth it. You don't have to have the green cert in hand on the day of the transfer there is a grace period afaik.

jobseek

freedominacup wrote: »

Check the revenue leaflets SD2, SD2A, and SD2B. I can't remember the details but if you have any form of qualification you may be able to get equivalance to the green cert for very little effort. The revenue will be trying to get you to get eqivalance from fetac to the current green cert which is a level 6 qualification but at your age the green cert from 20 years ago is more relevant especially if you did any other course at the time. Teagasc are the competent authority for equivalance upto at least '99. There are literally hairdressing courses that can be certified as equivalent to the old green cert by adding the 80 or 180 hour course to them.

Get the leaflets and pay close attention to the transitional requirements section of each one. It's worth looking up the act too which can be done online. The revenue will try to get you to get equivalance to the new green cert, the old green cert is equivalent to the new green cert so you need to prove equivalance to the old green cert. It took months for us to figure this out and quite a while to get it over the line after that. Teagasc were very helpful but we have always been clients of theirs. You'll have to do most of the legwork yourself though. Any professional worth their salt has a full desk and for things that are outside the norm they will be no more au fait with than you are. You need to know your own file. It took me 2 years but it was well worth it. You don't have to have the green cert in hand on the day of the transfer there is a grace period afaik.

when you say any form of qualification does it have to be agricultural related

nashmach

jobseek wrote: »

when you say any form of qualification does it have to be agricultural related

My understanding - yes.

And to be honest, I hope the answer is yes as otherwise it makes a mockery of the whole system.

freedominacup

nashmach wrote: »

My understanding - yes.

And to be honest, I hope the answer is yes as otherwise it makes a mockery of the whole system.

Depending on your age no not at all. There are hairdressing courses that can be equivalated to green cert once the 80 or 180 hour course is completed depending on your age and what green cert course was available when you were training elsewhere.

How does it make a mockery of it? Someone with for e.g. a Business Studies degree can very quickly be running a branch or area for a large business with a multi-million turnover and dozens of staff but they can't run a farm. It would be a mockery to exclude them tbh.

nashmach

freedominacup wrote: »

Depending on your age no not at all. There are hairdressing courses that can be equivalated to green cert once the 80 or 180 hour course is completed depending on your age and what green cert course was available when you were training elsewhere.

How does it make a mockery of it? Someone with for e.g. a Business Studies degree can very quickly be running a branch or area for a large business with a multi-million turnover and dozens of staff but they can't run a farm. It would be a mockery to exclude them tbh.

I thought you had to have a base ag course completed first but then you mention what green cert course was available elsewhere i.e. for equivalance. I guess this loophole was closed when it came in under the FETAC banner so that must be nigh on 10 years now and so wouldn't affect the majority doing the ACA now based on my experience - most were a little older than me so hitting 30.

You have brought me onto another source of frustration with the whole lot. I have a very good off farm job and part of a small team that on average returns a mid single digit million profit plus I work on other projects as well yet despite having completed a Level 8 degree and more exams outside college. So I agree with your point.

My mockery comment was along the lines that I had to the above and then face 2 years of Green Cert plus another €2k from my bank account just to get a slip of paper.

I really think more of these loopholes will be closed down and it may not be good news for my situation given my job but gra for farming. :mad: (we have already seen these type of cuts with CAT etc)

But again to reiterate, it seems that this will only apply for those in the transistional period and thus it is only a limited few now

freedominacup

nashmach wrote: »

I thought you had to have a base ag course completed first but then you mention what green cert course was available elsewhere i.e. for equivalance. I guess this loophole was closed when it came in under the FETAC banner so that must be nigh on 10 years now and so wouldn't affect the majority doing the ACA now based on my experience - most were a little older than me so hitting 30.

You have brought me onto another source of frustration with the whole lot. I have a very good off farm job and part of a small team that on average returns a mid single digit million profit plus I work on other projects as well yet despite having completed a Level 8 degree and more exams outside college. So I agree with your point.

My mockery comment was along the lines that I had to the above and then face 2 years of Green Cert plus another €2k from my bank account just to get a slip of paper.

I really think more of these loopholes will be closed down and it may not be good news for my situation given my job but gra for farming. :mad: (we have already seen these type of cuts with CAT etc)

But again to reiterate, it seems that this will only apply for those in the transistional period and thus it is only a limited few now

Have you checked the list of courses on the revenue leaflets? Is yours covered?

nashmach

freedominacup wrote: »

Have you checked the list of courses on the revenue leaflets? Is yours covered?

It is too late now for me and it was far far removed from agriculture so probably no.

Conmaicne Mara

Meeting was tonight.

As it stands 25% SFP top up IF you started farming in the last 5 years out, for five years under the age of 40.

Stamp duty reduction if land was transferred to you before your 35th birthday.

Preferential access to national reserve (I think, had lost a lot of interest by that stage).

Course itself required a fair commitment on time, one of the days was mart day.

Still ruminating. Problem is future schemes or grants requiring "qualification".

moy83

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Meeting was tonight.

As it stands 25% SFP top up IF you started farming in the last 5 years out, for five years under the age of 40.

Stamp duty reduction if land was transferred to you before your 35th birthday.

Preferential access to national reserve (I think, had lost a lot of interest by that stage).

Course itself required a fair commitment on time, one of the days was mart day.

Still ruminating. Problem is future schemes or grants requiring "qualification".

Did they say if future schemes would require qualification ? How do they expect lads to be able to have all this time available to them :mad: I would much prefer to be able to learn at home and have good hard exams to make sure everyone knows their stuff after .

Conmaicne Mara

moy83 wrote: »

Did they say if future schemes would require qualification ? How do they expect lads to be able to have all this time available to them :mad: I would much prefer to be able to learn at home and have good hard exams to make sure everyone knows their stuff after .

No one could give concrete answers on the future. Just that it looked like this was the direction things were headed, education being more important now, professionalising the industry, yadda yadda.

Future schemes is the big thing in my mind now, otherwise I'd have been a flat no, as there's SFA else in it for me.

Time, yeah, a full Saturday, and 6-10 or so of a Wed night, as well as the time & cost travelling there, and possible materials cost.

Content didn't seem like rocket science in fairness, but the time & money factor were significantly heftier than I had anticipated/been told.

Course itself was to be run over 2.5 years and the fee was something like €1210.

Bit like the old cowboy scenes, do ya take your chances with the chasing posse or jump off the cliff into the rocky river

Sharpshooter82

i was thinking of doing the green cert but with time requirements like that...not a hope

moy83

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

i was thinking of doing the green cert but with time requirements like that...not a hope

Are you in the army ? Would they ever be convinced to send on a course like that ?:P

Conmaicne Mara

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

i was thinking of doing the green cert but with time requirements like that...not a hope

That's the course run near me, a course run near you may well be different so do check it out.

Sharpshooter82

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

That's the course run near me, a course run near you may well be different so do check it out.

even ran over 2 years i dont think the military would be too impressed, id have to get a leave of absence and dont want that either

Conmaicne Mara

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

even ran over 2 years i dont think the military would be too impressed, id have to get a leave of absence and dont want that either

That's fair enough. I believe there may be an online/distance option done by Teagasc?

Sharpshooter82

might just have to keep marching on uneducated

Conmaicne Mara

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

might just have to keep marching on uneducated

Cold comfort but you won't be alone.

Sharpshooter82

i found i learnt more from being under the wing of auld farmers than any classroom i was ever in and i bet half od what you learn is never used

Conmaicne Mara

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

i found i learnt more from being under the wing of auld farmers than any classroom i was ever in and i bet half od what you learn is never used

I wouldn't entirely disagree, though there is considerable amounts of BS type knowledge circulated between farmers. What my concern is about is the future and any possibility that future schemes or grants may need "a piece of paper" to qualify the farmer for entry.

Sharpshooter82

yes but surly some amount of common sense will have to prevail if your farming a number of years as opposed to just starting farming and its not possible for you to go and do such a course. The thing about common sense is tho is that its not too common

Conmaicne Mara

That's the chance.

moy83

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

i found i learnt more from being under the wing of auld farmers than any classroom i was ever in and i bet half od what you learn is never used

I dont think the green cert is going to burst anyones brain full of knowledge .Most people are just doing it for the stamp duty relief or whatever other financial gain is to be gotten .
It would be no harm for all new farmers to have to be well up on laws and regulations , but surely all these can be printed to be learned from and when its all off by heart rock in and proove you know your stuff by sitting a few exams . Maybe a few on farm days but sitting in a class room for twenty days of the year watching someone pressing the button to move the pictures and words along the projecter screen is not my idea of being taught anything

Sharpshooter82

moy83 wrote: »

I dont think the green cert is going to burst anyones brain full of knowledge .Most people are just doing it for the stamp duty relief or whatever other financial gain is to be gotten .
It would be no harm for all new farmers to have to be well up on laws and regulations , but surely all these can be printed to be learned from and when its all off by heart rock in and proove you know your stuff by sitting a few exams . Maybe a few on farm days but sitting in a class room for twenty days of the year watching someone pressing the button to move the pictures and words along the projecter screen is not my idea of being taught anything

In the military thats known as DEATH BY OVERHEAD

cw girl

I'm doing the part time green cert at the moment, does anyone know if the cost (2,100) is eligible for tuition fees tax relief? Thanks

lakill Farm

cw girl wrote: »

I'm doing the part time green cert at the moment, does anyone know if the cost (2,100) is eligible for tuition fees tax relief? Thanks

you would have to check with the provider of the course if they are an approved educational body

DieselPowered

cw girl wrote: »

I'm doing the part time green cert at the moment, does anyone know if the cost (2,100) is eligible for tuition fees tax relief? Thanks

I understand that the part time green cert is eligible for tuition fee tax relief.

nashmach

lakill Farm wrote: »

you would have to check with the provider of the course if they are an approved educational body

If it is Teagasc, I would have thought they are accredited.

How long do you have to claim it back?

Had never considered it

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

I dont think the green cert is going to burst anyones brain full of knowledge .Most people are just doing it for the stamp duty relief or whatever other financial gain is to be gotten .
It would be no harm for all new farmers to have to be well up on laws and regulations , but surely all these can be printed to be learned from and when its all off by heart rock in and proove you know your stuff by sitting a few exams . Maybe a few on farm days but sitting in a class room for twenty days of the year watching someone pressing the button to move the pictures and words along the projecter screen is not my idea of being taught anything

That's actually the green certs biggest failure. You would have to set out to fail it, in my time at any rate. There was very little challenge in most of it. Whelan1 and myself and one or two others did a course in the U.K. after we did the year here and I found that challenging and because of that very beneficial with plenty of new info and husbandry practices to see. There was a real risk of failing that course which they used as a selling point to prospective employers of their students i.e. no-one is getting a cert here for turning up so you can be sure of the skills of the person you're employing.

moy83

freedominacup wrote: »

That's actually the green certs biggest failure. You would have to set out to fail it, in my time at any rate. There was very little challenge in most of it. Whelan1 and myself and one or two others did a course in the U.K. after we did the year here and I found that challenging and because of that very beneficial with plenty of new info and husbandry practices to see. There was a real risk of failing that course which they used as a selling point to prospective employers of their students i.e. no-one is getting a cert here for turning up so you can be sure of the skills of the person you're employing.

Would the english course have qualified you for anything here ? Or was it just for more education that you did it .
Its probably too late for me to bother with the green cert but if my two lads keep up their interest in tractors and farming I think its over to the uk they will be sent to work their summer hols and college

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

Would the english course have qualified you for anything here ? Or was it just for more education that you did it .
Its probably too late for me to bother with the green cert but if my two lads keep up their interest in tractors and farming I think its over to the uk they will be sent to work their summer hols and college

It took a lot of tearing and dragging to get the equivalancy sorted but it qualified me for everything. I left it too long to do the equivalency and people were trying to get me to compare a 15+ year old quaification with ones that had changed utterly here in the intervening period and had been given an increase in the level of qualification they were regarded as having. Luckily the legislation said that you only had to compare to the qualifications that were available here when you did your course elsewhere. It took a while to find the person who understood the legislation.

cw girl

nashmach wrote: »

If it is Teagasc, I would have thought they are accredited.

How long do you have to claim it back?

Had never considered it

Thanks for the replies, I'll give Teagasc a call this week and post once I find out

cw girl

cw girl wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, I'll give Teagasc a call this week and post once I find out

Spoke to someone I Teagasc in Carlow and you can obtain the tax relief

Irishmale

i was asking Teagasc about the next opening for one and said i was on an email list but never got an email. are they open for applications again?