Multi-level marketing in Ireland

theLEVI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing

I'm thinking of further expanding a business of this kind that has succeded on worldwide scale in Ireland.

Would anybody be interested in more information ?
I would like to get some opinions from you on this particular type of marketing.

Thanks,
Levi

The One Who Knocks

theLEVI

very smart remark my friend,
but i'm looking for serious responses from people that have any idea on subject matter, as for the pyramids;

A PYRAMID SCHEME IS A NON-SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL THAT INVOLVES THE EXCHANGE OF MONEY PRIMARILY FOR ENROLLING OTHER PEOPLE INTO THE SCHEME OFTEN WITHOUT ANY PRODUCTS OR SERVICES BEING DELIVERED. PYRAMID SCHEMES ARE ILLEGAL.

And the one i'm thinking about is not a pyramid scheme since there are products involved.

The One Who Knocks

theLEVI wrote: »

very smart remark my friend,
but i'm looking for serious responses from people that have any idea on subject matter, as for the pyramids;

A PYRAMID SCHEME IS A NON-SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL THAT INVOLVES THE EXCHANGE OF MONEY PRIMARILY FOR ENROLLING OTHER PEOPLE INTO THE SCHEME OFTEN WITHOUT ANY PRODUCTS OR SERVICES BEING DELIVERED. PYRAMID SCHEMES ARE ILLEGAL.

And the one i'm thinking about is not a pyramid scheme since there are products involved.

Ah sure I'm only kidding,

Have a look at a FLP (aloe vera) they're the most successful example I can think of, and they sell an amazing product. I know a guy who used to work for them. I don't know if it would apply to you, but it might be worth examining their business model.

Good luck,

PaulPinnacle

theLEVI wrote: »

And the one i'm thinking about is not a pyramid scheme since there are products involved.

While Jamez was just having a laugh, he actually has identified the biggest problem you will face with it. There have been so many cons and get rich quick schemes that tried to pass themselves off as a genuine MLM offering (I hope for your sake that this isn't another one of those) that people view all schemes (including the genuine ones) with suspicion and a high level of doubt. Overcoming that problem is one of your biggest problems in recruiting more people, that and the issue of genuinely good sales people being very few and very far between.

theLEVI

Thanks for the response,

The one i was looking at is actually called FM Group, its been out there for 5 years apparently and have been very successful so far.

I actually have met some people once that said they live very well just from constantly expanding their group of distributors, but then i didn't think about it seriously,they were talking about well over 12k euro a month,
it does take time, so i heard.

what would be a best way of going about and working in this kind of business ?
in other words how to find people here in Ireland that would want to join ?

Any opinions and ideas are welcome !

thanks !
Levi

The One Who Knocks

theLEVI wrote: »

Thanks for the response,

The one i was looking at is actually called FM Group, its been out there for 5 years apparently and have been very successful so far.

I actually have met some people once that said they live very well just from constantly expanding their group of distributors, but then i didn't think about it seriously,they were talking about well over 12k euro a month,
it does take time, so i heard.

what would be a best way of going about and working in this kind of business ?
in other words how to find people here in Ireland that would want to join ?

Any opinions and ideas are welcome !

thanks !
Levi

This would be a start, I suppose

http://www.fmteamireland.com/Information-Request.html

Also see here -> http://www.getpaidtosmellgreat.com/FM-Opportunity.html

Then I'd setup a website, launch an online marketing campaign and take it from there.

theLEVI

Yea that should be a start,
thanks for the reply James.


~~Levi.

Peterdalkey

MLM appears to have had it's heyday, as the open pricing and competition on the web requires the removal of layers between the producer and the end consumer. This slimming down is clearly evident also in the large retail sector with many traditional relationships being changed for diect from manufacturer to store/group.
MLM just adds layers, each taking a cut. It is not as if layer are actually adding any value to the chain. The idea is to get the gullible to recruit those even more gullible and try to make money off the actual sales or recruitment efforts of those down the chain.

There is plenty of INDEPENDENT information out there, seek it out and do proper research before you commit.

theLEVI

MLM adds layers but not the same ones as you were thinking of,
at last not in the case of the company i mentioned earlier.

Because it is still producer to consumer at last, as i said before in the company i mentioned before.

thanks for the reply anyway,

Levi

Peterdalkey

Had a look at their website, really very informative it is too. Especially so for such a major manufacturing company with magic no cost adding sales layers. Only one thing puzzles me, why did you post bother posting this in the first place as you obviously have no interest in the replies, other than to defend the long discredited business model.

PS Re-reading your original post, perhaps you are seeking to recruit potential operatives?!

theLEVI

I do have interest in the replies, but i was hoping for some better ones through,
i was hoping for something more interesting, orginal, but all you can come up with is "discredited " and i have heard it before, its a boring point of view in my opinion.

No offence of course.

I'm still looking for opinions so people don't stop posting, unless you agree with Peterdalkey previous post, then indeed i have no interest in looking over the same boring opinions, sorry then !

best wishes,
Levi ~~~

jjpep

theLEVI wrote: »

I do have interest in the replies, but i was hoping for some better ones through,
i was hoping for something more interesting, orginal, but all you can come up with is "discredited " and i have heard it before, its a boring point of view in my opinion.

No offence of course.

I'm still looking for opinions so people don't stop posting, unless you agree with Peterdalkey previous post, then indeed i have no interest in looking over the same boring opinions, sorry then !

best wishes,
Levi ~~~

So when you said in your opening post that you wanted opinions what your really looking for is people to confirm for you that mml is a good idea. Sorry, can't help you in that case.

theLEVI

Peterdalkey wrote: »

PS Re-reading your original post, perhaps you are seeking to recruit potential operatives?!

If it interest anyone then why not, in this kind of business there is no such thing as operatives, but what ever.

But really i was looking for potential ideas that could help me succeed, that is all.

theLEVI

jjpep wrote: »

So when you said in your opening post that you wanted opinions what your really looking for is people to confirm for you that mml is a good idea. Sorry, can't help you in that case.

its actually mlm, no problem just don't spam please.

jjpep

theLEVI wrote: »

its actually mlm, no problem just don't spam please.

Not spamming, just letting you know I can't give you the positive spin you'd like to read. Now if you wanted an honest opinion I could probably help you out but hey....

The One Who Knocks

Look we're just trying to help, I'm sorry but you're coming across as a bit of a d*ck.
It's boards, expect a bit of constructive criticism - especially when it comes to new business ideas.

And after re-reading your first post, it does seem like you're looking to recruit.

I'm out.

theLEVI

@jjpep

well if you have problem reading, then i will help you,
i mentioned before i'm looking for ideas that i could try out to help me succeed,
or something interesting, pessimism is boring to be honest, now so that i outlined what you couldn't conclude from my previous posts, post something with some point or just understand that i'm not impressed otherwise.

Levi.

theLEVI

Jamez735 wrote: »

Look we're just trying to help, I'm sorry but you're coming across as a bit of a d*ck.
It's boards, expect a bit of constructive criticism - especially when it comes to new business ideas.

And after re-reading your first post, it does seem like you're looking to recruit.

I'm out.

I actually liked your previous reply, but well what ever you think is best for you.

The One Who Knocks

wow.

jjpep

Okay, to make it a little bit easier I'll list out all the ideas that are likely to succeed using one of these schemes:








Done.

Your welcome.

theLEVI

jjpep wrote: »

Okay, to make it a little bit easier I'll list out all the ideas that are likely to succeed using one of these schemes:








Done.

Your welcome.

You should try and get a hobby man, beacause you are clearly bored, and then you begin to make me feel bored because i have to read those pointless lines.. im just being honest.



Anyway, what i mean is,
sometimes people have ideas but then they wouldn't have the balls to try them, therefore i ask for those ideas if you (meaning who ever read the post, excluding jjpep of course) want to share something interesting.

jjpep

http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

Have a read. If you've already put money into something, well tough I guess. If your just trying to recruit/scam people well....

theLEVI

jjpep wrote: »

http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

Have a read. If you've already put money into something, well tough I guess. If your just trying to recruit/scam people well....

You probably got a suprise from behind with regard to pyramid scheme and now you hate on me, well, MLM has some proven track record of success(don't mistake it with a pyramid of course) from what i've read.. try reading forbes sometime.



well this thread can be closed now,i doubt finding anything or anyone interesting on this boring part of boards.

jjpep

theLEVI wrote: »

You probably got a suprise from behind with regard to pyramid scheme and now you hate on me, well, MLM has some proven track record of success(don't mistake it with a pyramid of course) from what i've read.. try reading forbes sometime.



well this thread can be closed now,i doubt finding anything or anyone interesting on this boring part of boards.

Mlm is just another name for pyramid selling. Why don't you share some examples of success stories that you want to emulate?

cgriffin

theLEVI wrote: »

You probably got a suprise from behind with regard to pyramid scheme and now you hate on me, well, MLM has some proven track record of success(don't mistake it with a pyramid of course) from what i've read.. try reading forbes sometime.



well this thread can be closed now,i doubt finding anything or anyone interesting on this boring part of boards.

That's the attitude:rolleyes:
Please come back and post the picture of the first porche you buy on the back of this venture and make us all suck lemons:)

The One Who Knocks

jjpep wrote: »

Mlm is just another name for pyramid selling. Why don't you share some examples of success stories that you want to emulate?

It's not that MLM is a scam, Forever Living Products is an example of a great success story. Although I agree that it's past its heyday, unless you were going to look into custom online affiliate attribution models. My problem is with the OP & his arrogant attitude.

We're not being negative, just realistic. There's pros & cons to every business, including MLM. You can't just completely ignore the obstacles & challenges you'll face. Why not outline to us how you're going face these problems instead of pretending there aren't any.

K.Flyer

Levi,

Let me share my knowledge that I have on the subject and you can take it or leave it.
Direct Selling / M.L.M. / Network Marketing all more or less follow the same model.
These have been knocking around, in some cases decades, they are nothing new at all, but very few of them have had longevity. Yes, some people make / made serious money from it, but only some and they were usually at the Top end of the chain.
We have all seen it before, someone "sponsers" you in, you buy product from them (they and their "up-line" make a few bob from that) you are encouraged to "develop" your own business, by sponsering more people into the business and by them buying product but the magic starts to begin when the people that you have sponsered in start to get people on board as well, now you have a business being developed under you expotentially. So say you sponser a few people in and they each in turn sponser a few people in and each of those new people get some people on board as well creating several different layers below you, so you are on Top of these growing Layers of Independant Businesses spreading out under you, all passing product down the line as profits are passed back up the line towards the Top.
Now you might see what I am getting at here, most Business minded people have been shown "The Plan" at some stage of their life, except nowadays its shown in outward building circles instead of a plan with you on the Top of the increasing levels of independant business owners, because it visually looks too much like a Pyramid, with you on Top of it.
These schemes have been around for decades with some product(s) or another and some have managed to keep going for a while (Avon springs to mind).
However there have been lots that have caused a lot of people to lose a lot of their money.
Before there would have been a "joining fee" this is now illegal and would now scream Pyramid Scheme.
Now there is no joing fee, but you are usually "encouraged" to buy "samples" or "product" to show (start to sell) to your friends, family and associates, with the "sure they might be interested in getting on board as well !!" line. And so it goes.
There may be no joining fee, but you will find that you end up being encouraged to pay for certain things through Their system, years ago it was "books, tapes and seminars".
They may have different names for it today (and different products) but at the end of the day, with you on Top of the different Lines of Independant Business Owners, when you sketch it out that way it Looks like a Pyramid and it smells like a Pyramid but it now called Multi Level Marketing.
But its legal because of a few small changes and how it is initially presented to you.
As I said, some have made money from these schemes, but most have not, in some cases some lost a lot.
So by all means look at it for yourself, examine it for yourself, but be cautious about it, as the old saying goes "....If it looks to good to be true etc etc etc".

DubTony

theLEVI wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing

I'm thinking of further expanding a business of this kind that has succeded on worldwide scale in Ireland.

Would anybody be interested in more information ?
I would like to get some opinions from you on this particular type of marketing.

Thanks,
Levi

This looks like a very badly disguised attempt at recruiting (which is against the rules around here). You're in the wrong place here LEVI. This forum, much like the populace in general has a bad opinion of MLM, but many of the keyboard warriors who'll jump onto this thread will do it simply to ensure that you have little or no success in recruiting anyone. It works on the principle that if they can say enough bad stuff about the industry, nobody will get involved.

Anyway, unless they've changed it in the last 3 years, the company you are "introducing us to" uses a comp plan that was invented in (wait for it) the 1950s, and is a carbon copy of the Amway comp plan. It's one of the toughest in the industry to make any decent money with, and furthers my confusion as to how the FM company is still around.

Peterdalkey wrote: »

Had a look at their website, really very informative it is too. Especially so for such a major manufacturing company with magic no cost adding sales layers. Only one thing puzzles me, why did you post bother posting this in the first place as you obviously have no interest in the replies, other than to defend the long discredited business model.

PS Re-reading your original post, perhaps you are seeking to recruit potential operatives?!

Peter, the "added layers" don't add cost, as what typically happens is that the company takes a percentage of its revenue and puts it into the payment plan. This is typically the money that would be used for sales & marketing and advertising. The percentage is shared among the reps working at different levels of compensation, so it doesn't matter how many "layers" are added, the cost to the company, and indeed the customer, remains the same.
This effectively reduces the start-up cost as all the advertising is done by word of mouth and is paid for only when results are achieved.
As far as the layers go, it's similar to a manufacturer using an agent, who sells to a distributor, who sells to a wholesaler etc.


LEVI, you've done yourself and the industry no favours by coming here, writing an "ad", and finding yourself in the position of having to defend your business choice. I have a feeling that your upline hasn't told you to go onto internet forums and find people to recruit. If they did, you're in poor hands.

What you should be doing, instead of looking for different ways to do it, is to listen to your trainer and do what he tells you. Oh you may be "in business for yourself - but not by yourself", but the key to success in to follow the training and do as you're told. Look upon your upline as your mentors. The chances are, if they've had any success, they've done what they were trained to do, and didn't look for "a better way".

If they aren't giving you any training, you need to go further upline to somebody who will. If you can't find someone, you need to look for other resources. The business of MLM training is huge and can be very expensive. So many people join the industry and find themselves without training, or looking for a better, easier, faster way that they're willing to pay for online courses, webinars and all sorts of information. My advice is to keep your credit card in your wallet and find the free resources that are plentiful.

2 to mention are

www.networkmarketingpro.com

Eric Worre has over 800 short videos that are crammed with very useful information. He doesn't do this for the good of his health though, as he sells training seminars and training packages. But what you can pick upfrom his videos is as good as anything out there.

www.toddfalcone.com

Falcone hosts a free weekly training call with lots of useful tips, and even goes so far as to do live recruiting calls on his training call.


Personally I think the company you've been introduced to is way too late to the game. L'Arome International sold perfumes back in the late 1980's for around the same price as FMGroup sells them for today. The difference at the time was what designer perfumes cost 5 to 6 times as much and L'Arome's products were perfect copies (which was the ultimate cause of their demise).

Avon has been the market leader in cosmetics direct sales for generations, and recently pulled its Irish operation, and people buy household and cleaning products in the supermarket. Added to that the fact that FM's comp plan is extremely difficult to make a decent living from, and was the main reason that top Amway distributors invented their controversial (and imo extremely objectionable) "Tools System" to generate real income, I think you're on a loser here.

If you haven't committed to this yet, I suggest you find a company with a modern product and a modern pay plan. PM me for any further advice you may want.

Peterdalkey

Gtreat post Tony, very informed on the specifics of the topic.


Modern distribution channels, skinny logistics and lean business structures are largely based on gaining efficiencies by removing layers at every level and through greater scale. The models of Aldi/lidle have been emulated by the older style retailers. Online vendors have taken retailing in an even more competitive direction. The web itself has allowed consumers access to pricing on a much much wider scale. The whole pruducer/agent/distributor/wholesaler/sales rep chain is being dismantled in modern business where each does not add real value, but each layer always adds some level of cost, which keeps end prices higher than a lead model.
There are of course exceptions, controlled distribution high end luxury brands, for example. However they have very margins and little consumer price sensitivity.

DubTony

Peterdalkey wrote: »

...but each layer always adds some level of cost, which keeps end prices higher than a lead model.
There are of course exceptions, controlled distribution high end luxury brands, for example. However they have very margins and little consumer price sensitivity.

And I think the key point with the best MLMs out there is that they have a relatively unique product, sold at the highest possible retail price with massive margins. This usually makes for larger commission payouts. It's not unusual for some companies to pay out over 60% of retail in commissions.
And it's also worth noting that the principals of most MLM companies will have a position in the comp plan, so the CEO/MD and other executives are usually in a position of getting large commissions from the sales in the field, can be paid a nominal salary, so reducing salary pressures.
There are exceptions to that as well. Michael Johnson of Herbalife (a public company) was Americas highest paid CEO in 2011 (receiving almost $90 million - although $77 million was from stock options), and AFAIK he doesn't hold a position in the company's pay plan.

Bandara

Mr Levi posts about this every now and again. At least this time he's trying to pretend its not just about this by posting a few nonsense comments on other threads first, and not opening this boards account (well the most recent one anyway) with a post advertising how wonderful his pyramid scheme will be

Yawn

M.T.D

Great post from dubtony (the 1.56am one) gives a fairly good summary
My opinion based on having been in an mlm group previously for many years.
Some good pay cheques €5k +/month and foreign holidays.

I am no longer with any mlm company but have no problem with the concept.

MLM should work, although direct online ordering has changed the market place hugely in the last 10 years.

Any company with a sales force where the sales manager's wage is partly based on what his team sells is akin to mlm

IMO the two main criteria in choosing an MLM company are

1. would you buy/sell the company products at the recommended prices with out the mlm side, i.e. are they good value.

2. is the mlm side fair and reasonable i.e. bigger group/downline/team turnover equal bigger bonus cheque in a reasonably proportional manner.

re point 1. you can then sell products and make some extra cash the same as you could car washing or cutting grass for your neighbours at the weekends.

re point 2. is the time, effort and often expense going to be rewarded.
I know people that spent huge amounts of money running adverts, putting out flyers, holding meetings, many making significant losses with no income or team to show for it.

I have yet to find a company that meets both criteria.
The products are either crap or over priced or both.
Or the pay structure is contrived and convoluted.

Duckjob

theLEVI wrote: »

I actually have met some people once that said they live very well just from constantly expanding their group of distributors, but then i didn't think about it seriously,they were talking about well over 12k euro a month,
it does take time, so i heard.

OP in all your posts, this part jumped out at me. You're going to take as true , claims about income from people who :

a) already have their own skin in the game
b) who's own success or failure depends entirely on telling you and others how much they make and convince you to climb aboard.

Seriously?

EamonOSullivan

K.Flyer wrote: »

Levi,

Let me share my knowledge that I have on the subject and you can take it or leave it.
Direct Selling / M.L.M. / Network Marketing all more or less follow the same model.
These have been knocking around, in some cases decades, they are nothing new at all, but very few of them have had longevity. Yes, some people make / made serious money from it, but only some and they were usually at the Top end of the chain.
We have all seen it before, someone "sponsers" you in, you buy product from them (they and their "up-line" make a few bob from that) you are encouraged to "develop" your own business, by sponsering more people into the business and by them buying product but the magic starts to begin when the people that you have sponsered in start to get people on board as well, now you have a business being developed under you expotentially. So say you sponser a few people in and they each in turn sponser a few people in and each of those new people get some people on board as well creating several different layers below you, so you are on Top of these growing Layers of Independant Businesses spreading out under you, all passing product down the line as profits are passed back up the line towards the Top.
Now you might see what I am getting at here, most Business minded people have been shown "The Plan" at some stage of their life, except nowadays its shown in outward building circles instead of a plan with you on the Top of the increasing levels of independant business owners, because it visually looks too much like a Pyramid, with you on Top of it.
These schemes have been around for decades with some product(s) or another and some have managed to keep going for a while (Avon springs to mind).
However there have been lots that have caused a lot of people to lose a lot of their money.
Before there would have been a "joining fee" this is now illegal and would now scream Pyramid Scheme.
Now there is no joing fee, but you are usually "encouraged" to buy "samples" or "product" to show (start to sell) to your friends, family and associates, with the "sure they might be interested in getting on board as well !!" line. And so it goes.
There may be no joining fee, but you will find that you end up being encouraged to pay for certain things through Their system, years ago it was "books, tapes and seminars".
They may have different names for it today (and different products) but at the end of the day, with you on Top of the different Lines of Independant Business Owners, when you sketch it out that way it Looks like a Pyramid and it smells like a Pyramid but it now called Multi Level Marketing.
But its legal because of a few small changes and how it is initially presented to you.
As I said, some have made money from these schemes, but most have not, in some cases some lost a lot.
So by all means look at it for yourself, examine it for yourself, but be cautious about it, as the old saying goes "....If it looks to good to be true etc etc etc".

Excellent post - great info there for anyone looking at MLM

Peterdalkey

I know it is not quite the same thing but I know a couple of people who were variously involved in party plan selling of ladies clothing, cosmetics etc. the recession and lack of cash for discretionary spending has really killed these operations. It is interesting to note the rise and rise of Primark sales over the same period. This can also be said about Aldi Lidl revenues and the general popularity of discount/euro stores , it seems clear that price points are more critical than ever, even in the middle market areas. You need a compelling price advantage to make decent revenues on a direct selling models, to me the web offers a much better opportunity than any MLM offerings I have seen.

TheEireEmpire

MLM has changed my life

Graham

TheEireEmpire wrote: »

MLM has changed my life

I've heard a few people say that.

Generally the changes are:

• a room full of tat sample products.
• a hole in the bank account where the money to acquire said tat sample products used to sit.
• ongoing invitations to mass ra-ra sessions in a non-descript hotel conference rooms
• evenings and weekends spent trying to convince other suckers like minded entrepreneurs to visualise the large house and yacht they'd like to own.

Don't worry though, the changes are usually temporary. After a year or two you'll realise it was all a colossal con and you'll reassign the tat to a skip somewhere and consciously decide never to talk about it again until a friend asks about it and you squirm for a few minutes.

Buttercake

Conor McGregor is class isnt he



Sorry thought he said MMA

TheEireEmpire wrote: »

MLM has changed my life

pedroeibar1

TheEireEmpire wrote: »

MLM has changed my life

Is that you Breifne? How's life inside?

duploelabs

John Oliver's views on MLM