Christians and foul mouthed friends/family...

mashedbanana

I'm just enquiring, does anyone else have the same issue? Family & some friends (but more so family) that willing using bad language all the time?

I personally don't see the need for it, you can get your point across without out all the effin & blindin. I had another dose of it today with a sister of mine. She was ...going on & on...about someone, and I just looked at the kids and gave them that 'look' to scamper off out, cos I knew what was coming. No matter how many times I ask her/family in general, to watch their language, it's no use. It's like it's bred into them!

One of my girls, during the hour and a half visit, started some sort of odd behaviour, and I quietly asked her to be a little more girly, and less boyish. Obviously what ever she was up to, needed me to say something to her.

Well, you guessed it, my sister came at me with her usual. 'You stand up for yourself, be a strong girl, don't be a walk over, girly my a*s*.' Etc. I stood shocked and surprised for a few moments, and then ushered my daughter out the door. While I left my sister inside muttering away to herself. Naturally If I do correct her/family about using bad language around me or the kids, i'm told to 'chill out, stop over reacting' or I get the eyes to heaven. Like I'm a spoil sport, or dry. No fun. Etc.

The problem is, A lot of these issues are with family. How do I avoid the cursing unless I avoid family! Does any other Christian have the same issues. I suppose you don't have to be a Christian to have these issues!

Also, just as a side question... Gossiping. Are we as God fearing women, supposed to avoid at all costs gossiping (particularly about other mother/families) It's everwhere! Like EVERYWHERE!

The only 'safe' solution that I seem to come up with each and everytime I sit and thing about it....is living life like a hermit!

Or at least restrict contact with people we/I know may not be of gain to me. It is becoming increasingly difficult to shield my children from the evils of the world. I know we are not supposed to be 'of this world' we are meant to be different. In an obvious way. We are to 'come out from amoung them'

I'm doing my best to steer clear of al of them! LOL...

well, sorry for the rant! Any advice welcomed! :-)

martinedwards

Pray for strength to be able to ignore it.

because they will do it on purpose just to wind you up.

SonOfAdam

Leaving aside belief for the moment, anyone doing or saying things around your kids that you've expressed you don't want them subjected to are showing a complete disregard for you - that's the main issue - they have no respect for you and furthermore undermine you as a parent in front of your own kids. That would be the start of any conversation I would have with them.

On the faith issue, it's simply a case of light and darkness and living as a hermit isn't the answer. You are called to be light and that doesn't chage regardless of circumstance or difficult families - so be light (Phil2:15):)

sbsquarepants

mashedbanana wrote: »

One of my girls, during the hour and a half visit, started some sort of odd behaviour, and I quietly asked her to be a little more girly, and less boyish. Obviously what ever she was up to, needed me to say something to her.

It's not for me to tell you (or anyone else) how to talk to your kids, but i don't think that trying to force her to be more girly and less boyish will do her any good whatsoever to be quite honest. Better to let her be how she is, in my opinion. Teach her boundaries and manners and so on by all means, but trying to coerce her to be more girly is going too far i think.

Also, just as a little aside - i heard a thing on the radio the other day, some study or other, that said people who swear in everyday conversation tend to be more honest than people who don't. I can't recall the details though.

homer911

Mashedbanana - I empathise with you. Growing up I never heard bad language in a family situation, just occasionally out on the street, or in school. Was around at my sister's the other day and was cringing when she swore - absolutely no reason for the swearing. This is a free country and you cant dictate how other people speak to you, at least not in their house. We seem to be surrounded by bad and sexual language these days - work, school, TV etc. and we cant protect our kids from this. but we can set an example as to what we consider acceptable, and correct them when they step over the line. I remind them that what's coming out of their mouths is a reflection of what's going on in their hearts.

It really annoys me though when I hear Christians swearing...

GarIT

mashedbanana wrote: »

I quietly asked her to be a little more girly, and less boyish.

Do you not think that is extremely sexist and a horrible thing to say to your kids, have you never heard of Christian values?

Can you explain what is wrong with some words that you can't use them, I have never been able to understand that.

super_furry

Does it say in the bible that you shouldn't swear or listen to people cursing?

homer911

super_furry wrote: »

Does it say in the bible that you shouldn't swear or listen to people cursing?

There is a lot of swearing in the Old Testament - Jews are basically told not to swear by false gods so presumably swearing by the one true God was ok! In the New Testament we are told not to swear at all (Matthew 5:34 and James 5:12)

In 2 Corinthians 2:5, there is a reference to offence or grief being caused, that it goes beyond the immediate people involved

In the gospels, there are references (eg Matthew 5:30) to cutting off parts of your body if they cause you to stumble. While I wouldnt advocate chopping your ears off or cutting out your tongue, the point is well made. Christians are called to live in the world in order to influence it. While it might affect our sensibilities, we cant avoid hearing bad language, but we should not repeat it or encourage it by our own actions, for fear we cause someone else to stumble

(i've often wondered where this puts committted Christians in the context of giving evidence in court - should Christians give an affirmation instead of swearing by Almighty God..?)

doctoremma

mashedbanana wrote: »

I suppose you don't have to be a Christian to have these issues!

Absolutely not. I am very far from any religion but I don't swear when there are children around (even "soft" words) and I certainly wouldn't swear around a family member's or friend's child.

I'm not keen on the gender stereotyping. I read an article only yesterday (which I am, of course, completely unable to locate now) which discussed how teaching girls to be stereotypically "girly" (that they "should" be more demure, less boisterous, praised for "girly" things like good handwriting) does them a disservice in their adult life, how they succeed in careers etc.

However, I agree with SonOfAdam on the key issue (for me). Assuming your children are at an age where they are not quite ready to make their own minds up about various things, I don't think your parenting style/requests should be openly undermined*. If I really had difficulty understanding how or why a friend was dealing with their children, it's something I'd address with them, in the course of regular chit chat, at an appropriate moment.

*Unless, of course, they are cause for real and immediate concern.

For the more general issue - how to shield your children - I'm not sure it's possible. Whatever your life philosophy, perhaps the only thing you can do is teach your children to be themselves, to be true to themselves and to not be led.

tommy2bad

doctoremma has it right.
Never understood peoples aversion to a few four letter words though, I use them all the time, part punctuation, part added emphases. Strangely I never swear when I'm actually angry, by then I'm in full flow and polysyllabic words that are seldom used outside of a dictionary seem to be my default ranting vocabulary.

Just tell them to stop and that you don't like it in your house. Outside I'm sorry to say is public space and you have to put up with it. Part of the give an take of social living.

mashedbanana

GarIT wrote: »

Do you not think that is extremely sexist and a horrible thing to say to your kids, have you never heard of Christian values?

Can you explain what is wrong with some words that you can't use them, I have never been able to understand that.

I am doing my best to raise my girls to be mannerly, polite, and everything that a ...lady...should be. Naturally, I have introduced the Bible to them, and have shown them what God wants his Christian women to be. Now I think they are a little too young to go into ALL of the in's & out's of the Proverbs 31 wife.

to answer the second part of your question, you'd like to know some of the words that I don't want to use, and what I don't want my kids to use? Really? you'd like me to list them? Well, the 'F' word for a start. I know and I assume you also know the origin of that word, and what it actually means?

Another one is the 'c' word, which is actually a derogatory reference to a woman's private area. If you don't mind too much, I'd prefer not to continue!

To answer the first part of your question, I absolutely understand Christian values, maybe even better then most. What about you? Do you understand Christina values? Hmm.

lmaopml

mashedbanana wrote: »

I am doing my best to raise my girls to be mannerly, polite, and everything that a ...lady...should be. Naturally, I have introduced the Bible to them, and have shown them what God wants his Christian women to be. Now I think they are a little too young to go into ALL of the in's & out's of the Proverbs 31 wife.

to answer the second part of your question, you'd like to know some of the words that I don't want to use, and what I don't want my kids to use? Really? you'd like me to list them? Well, the 'F' word for a start. I know and I assume you also know the origin of that word, and what it actually means?

Another one is the 'c' word, which is actually a derogatory reference to a woman's private area. If you don't mind too much, I'd prefer not to continue!

To answer the first part of your question, I absolutely understand Christian values, maybe even better then most. What about you? Do you understand Christina values? Hmm.

I think at some times in ones life everybody 'swears' there is certainly no pretending to be perfect, because we aren't perfect - we're just people like everybody else is, and sometimes being trite with your sister can send the wrong message.

Have you never said a swear word? I know I have, but not in every sentence as part of my vocabulary - I think Irish people swear far too much, and it's not heart felt but can become a habit of sorts, a bad one - there is no harm in pointing the 'habit' out in the right way.

This is a 'parenting' issue more so than a 'swearing' issue imo - I think you and your sister are at odds, and talking helps more than anything else, because sisters know their siblings better than strangers do.

..apart from the fact that they are mostly the very best friend in life. Make peace with your sister no matter what.

mashedbanana

lmaopml wrote: »

I think at some times in ones life everybody 'swears' there is certainly no pretending to be perfect, because we aren't perfect - we're just people like everybody else is, and sometimes being trite with your sister can send the wrong message.

Have you never said a swear word? I know I have, but not in every sentence as part of my vocabulary - I think Irish people swear far too much, and it's not heart felt but can become a habit of sorts, a bad one - there is no harm in pointing the 'habit' out in the right way.

This is a 'parenting' issue more so than a 'swearing' issue imo - I think you and your sister are at odds, and talking helps more than anything else, because sisters know their siblings better than strangers do.

..apart from the fact that they are mostly the very best friend in life. Make peace with your sister no matter what.

Thank you for your input. I haven't fallen out with her at all! but unfortunately, she can have a foul mouth, and doesn't respond (at all!) to any sort of gentle conversation about it. Unfortunately she is a shameless gossip too! As she would say to me 'I'm on my own with the child, and I like to have the craic with people, Shur, I have no husband to come home to me' (chalk & cheese situation I suppose)

Anyway, I sat and thought about it all for a while and realised that there will undoubtedly be Christians out there that think it's okay to swear, and those that think it's not. Even in the presents of children. I'm not perfect, I have been known to let something mild slip, and would instantly ask forgiveness (to our Lord), and also apologise to any present company.

Thanks everyone for your answers. God Bless

lmaopml

mashedbanana wrote: »

Thank you for your input. I haven't fallen out with her at all! but unfortunately, she can have a foul mouth, and doesn't respond (at all!) to any sort of gentle conversation about it. Unfortunately she is a shameless gossip too! As she would say to me 'I'm on my own with the child, and I like to have the craic with people, Shur, I have no husband to come home to me' (chalk & cheese situation I suppose)

Anyway, I sat and thought about it all for a while and realised that there will undoubtedly be Christians out there that think it's okay to swear, and those that think it's not. Even in the presents of children. I'm not perfect, I have been known to let something mild slip, and would instantly ask forgiveness (to our Lord), and also apologise to any present company.

Thanks everyone for your answers. God Bless

Meh, I wasn't trying to run you out mashedbanana, just being honest - I was just trying to point out that sometimes, just 'sometimes' one can see the person behind a vocabulary that sometimes is not 'heartfelt' but can become a bad habit.

She is your sister - go make up, and don't make excuses for it - tell her the truth, say it like it is, that you don't like language in front of your children - and be prepared to fight for a relationship with her, have it out with her and not online.

Nobody will care quite as much for you as she will - so go talk with her.

Brian Shanahan

mashedbanana wrote: »

One of my girls, during the hour and a half visit, started some sort of odd behaviour, and I quietly asked her to be a little more girly, and less boyish. Obviously what ever she was up to, needed me to say something to her.

I'm sorry but we don't live in the 1850's any more, and this behaviour is far beyond the bounds of acceptability. Misogyny (which is what you exhibit) is a far worse habit than using impolite language.

For the sake of your daughter's mental health, and your future relationship with her (she'll resent and hate you her whole life otherwise), let her be who she is, and grow the way she should.

Edit: on the issue of using bad language, I've no problem with it. Yes I'll refrain from using it in inappropriate situations (e.g. in an interview, in front of people it offends), but given two salient facts, 1) that the nature of and words embodying bad language changes constantly (e.g. in Victorian times in polite society it was often a worse offence to say the word "trousers", than break the 4th commandment, and in Edwardian Cornwall the words "cock" {vulgar name for penis} and "****" {vulgar name for vagina} were common components of surnames) and 2) even most 6 and 7 year olds I know both know and use various words like "****", it's not like I'm actually influencing anyone by being a bit foul-mouthed myself.

mashedbanana

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

I'm sorry but we don't live in the 1850's any more, and this behaviour is far beyond the bounds of acceptability. Misogyny (which is what you exhibit) is a far worse habit than using impolite language.

For the sake of your daughter's mental health, and your future relationship with her (she'll resent and hate you her whole life otherwise), let her be who she is, and grow the way she should.

Edit: on the issue of using bad language, I've no problem with it. Yes I'll refrain from using it in inappropriate situations (e.g. in an interview, in front of people it offends), but given two salient facts, 1) that the nature of and words embodying bad language changes constantly (e.g. in Victorian times in polite society it was often a worse offence to say the word "trousers", than break the 4th commandment, and in Edwardian Cornwall the words "cock" {vulgar name for penis} and "****" {vulgar name for vagina} were common components of surnames) and 2) even most 6 and 7 year olds I know both know and use various words like "****", it's not like I'm actually influencing anyone by being a bit foul-mouthed myself.

Well, for a start I thought this was a Christian forum. That would probably be mistake number one for me. (lesson learned)

Mistake number 2, was to assume, I wouldn't be judged, considering I didn't actually say what it was my daughter was doing...for me to correct her.

I'm some what amused, on how I came here about the use of bad language around children, and how as a Christian I should deal with it. Yet it turned into a case of bad mothering/parental issues. That bit actually baffles me tbh.

For the record I actually haven't fallen out with my sister at all. I just don't like her use of language, in general, in fact. That doesn't make me OR her a bad person. I feel, there is absolutely nothing with rearing children in a house hold where bad language isn't used.

'On the issue of bad language, I've no problem with it' Well then, you & I differ. I do have a problem with it! Does that make you a better person then me? You don't use it in front of people you offend? Does that include Children? I'd hope & presume so.

To finish, I have no problem letting my daughter be who she wants to be. That doesn't mean I'm going to let her run wild! Thank you for the lesson on foul language.

............................Time to close the Thread I think....God Bless!...............

lmaopml

Mashedbananna, don't judge us too harshly on the forum - I can see why you are wondering whether it's a 'Christian' forum or not! The Christianity forum is really the meeting point for all kinds of people, not only Christian, so it can be a little hard to get used to -

I'm sorry that you were met with advice in the form of four letter words that people think are ok etc. - that's not funny.

If I myself said anything that hurt you, I'm sorry, I was being honest with you about your sister - we all have sisters like that - I have three that are mostly my best friends, but at times I disagree a LOT with - sisters huh?

However, it's the nature of this board, it's not a 'haven' of happiness and security for Christians, a lot of the time it's anything but because of policy I guess.

Again, sorry if you got a bad feeling here - it takes getting used to I guess, it did for me anyways.

brian_t

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

For the sake of your daughter's mental health, and your future relationship with her (she'll resent and hate you her whole life otherwise), let her be who she is, and grow the way she should.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way they should go; even when they are old they will not depart from it.

Brian Shanahan

mashedbanana wrote: »

Well, for a start I thought this was a Christian forum. That would probably be mistake number one for me. (lesson learned)

Mistake number 2, was to assume, I wouldn't be judged, considering I didn't actually say what it was my daughter was doing...for me to correct her.

I'm some what amused, on how I came here about the use of bad language around children, and how as a Christian I should deal with it. Yet it turned into a case of bad mothering/parental issues. That bit actually baffles me tbh.

For the record I actually haven't fallen out with my sister at all. I just don't like her use of language, in general, in fact. That doesn't make me OR her a bad person. I feel, there is absolutely nothing with rearing children in a house hold where bad language isn't used.

'On the issue of bad language, I've no problem with it' Well then, you & I differ. I do have a problem with it! Does that make you a better person then me? You don't use it in front of people you offend? Does that include Children? I'd hope & presume so.

To finish, I have no problem letting my daughter be who she wants to be. That doesn't mean I'm going to let her run wild! Thank you for the lesson on foul language.

............................Time to close the Thread I think....God Bless!...............

We differ a lot more than you think. For first thing I'm no misogynyst, wanting to effectively enslave half the world because their reproductive organs are inside their bodies, and not outside them.

Your lack of morality on this issue is infinitely worse than the ripeness of my everyday language (which as I have pointed out is only considered rude because of the extremely fetishistic hang-ups of various Victorian rulers).

And frankly if I've upset you over this issue, that is a good thing, because you really need to be told how awful your world view vis a vis women is. Your attitude is what kills baby girls, genitally mutilates their older sisters, and drives young teens to suicide because they are forced into marriages which are little more than nightly rapes.

brian_t wrote: »

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way they should go; even when they are old they will not depart from it.

I don't listen to the "teachings" of long dead groups of misogynists. I use the fact that we've had two and a half thousand years to develop a better and more humane morality than the sorry excuse for a one contained with in the bible.

lmaopml

brian_t wrote: »

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way they should go; even when they are old they will not depart from it.

Children are on loan to us until they become adults, but they are essentially their own person as most will let a parent know when the times comes - I think as a parent one can only hope that most of what we say 'sticks' in some way and is helpful to them when they leave the nest - and even if it seems like it doesn't, well - life has many twists and turns, but a parents job is showing a straight path, shining a light on it and letting their child grow and become responsible..

There is a world out there, and it's not easy navigating ones way through it, parents worry and children dream, and the child is the best teacher which is counter intuitive - what a catch. Age old stuff I suppose.

mashedbanana

brian_t wrote: »

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way they should go; even when they are old they will not depart from it.

This is what I mean. This is exactly what I'm trying to do, in a modern fashion. Even though, now more then ever the world is a dreadful place. I also feel that we are paralleling the times of Daniel. But shur, I suppose that's for another discussion.

I'm not into beating children, but I will correct them. They now the score! every now and again, maybe everyother day,each of them will approach me with a question about the Bible. I love this! It means what I'm saying is sinking in. I have them at 'that' level of interest. Thank God!

I can take these kids anywhere, and never worry that they won't behave themselves. Of course I always give them the usual chat before hand. To remember their manners etc. They are great kids, and have a good enough handle of the Bible. This I am (even though I shouldn't be) proud of.

Hence the need for them not to be brought down, with bad language. But it's EVERYWHERE. They know not to use it! 'Tis my own fault I suppose, I have them too wrapped up maybe. Just trying to shield them, they don't need to know about the big bad world, until they absolutely have to. I'll have them prep'd for that when the time comes. :-)

brian_t

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

I don't listen to the "teachings" of long dead groups of misogynists. I use the fact that we've had two and a half thousand years to develop a better and more humane morality than the sorry excuse for a one contained with in the bible.

Why on earth would a Christian parent take advice from you.

Benny_Cake

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

And frankly if I've upset you over this issue, that is a good thing, because you really need to be told how awful your world view vis a vis women is. Your attitude is what kills baby girls, genitally mutilates their older sisters, and drives young teens to suicide because they are forced into marriages which are little more than nightly rapes.



I don't listen to the "teachings" of long dead groups of misogynists. I use the fact that we've had two and a half thousand years to develop a better and more humane morality than the sorry excuse for a one contained with in the bible.

Brian Shanahan will be taking a month off. Let's get this back on track.

tommy2bad

Yeah, lets leave the tangent on gender stereotypes off this thread. Go start another for that if people must!

mashedbanana;
This is what I mean. This is exactly what I'm trying to do, in a modern fashion. Even though, now more then ever the world is a dreadful place. I also feel that we are paralleling the times of Daniel. But shur, I suppose that's for another discussion.

I don't think it's any worse now than ever, I don't know the time scale your using but if you conciser that a little more than 30 years ago we were imprisoning women for being human, we are improving.

I'm not into beating children, but I will correct them. They now the score! every now and again, maybe everyother day,each of them will approach me with a question about the Bible. I love this! It means what I'm saying is sinking in. I have them at 'that' level of interest. Thank God!

Fair play, great to see a questioning mind being fed! Hope you give as much time to other books as well, I'm recommending the Narnia books as you don't say what age the kids are and TCoN are good for everyone from 7 to 70.

I can take these kids anywhere, and never worry that they won't behave themselves. Of course I always give them the usual chat before hand. To remember their manners etc. They are great kids, and have a good enough handle of the Bible. This I am (even though I shouldn't be) proud of.

Never be ashamed of being proud of your kids,.

Hence the need for them not to be brought down, with bad language. But it's EVERYWHERE. They know not to use it! 'Tis my own fault I suppose, I have them too wrapped up maybe. Just trying to shield them, they don't need to know about the big bad world, until they absolutely have to. I'll have them prep'd for that when the time comes. :-)

Now we are back on track. Why dose bad language bring them down or harm them? This is kind of hard to discuss without knowing the actual words but I'm guessing it the common Anglo Saxon 4 letter ones. Apart from finding them distasteful their is no biblical injunction against this kind of language. Taking the lords name in vain and swearing oaths are forbidden but their are some verses in the bible that are quite earthy.
Mind you distasteful is reason enough to object, unfortinuiatly as you say it everywhere, often unthinkingly and sometimes due to a paupacy of vocabulary but occasionally these words fit the circumstances perfectly. They are both powerfully and satisfying to use. They express venom, humor, frustration, I think we will be using them for a long time yet.

mashedbanana

tommy2bad wrote: »

Yeah, lets leave the tangent on gender stereotypes off this thread. Go start another for that if people must!


I don't think it's any worse now than ever, I don't know the time scale your using but if you conciser that a little more than 30 years ago we were imprisoning women for being human, we are improving.

Fair play, great to see a questioning mind being fed! Hope you give as much time to other books as well, I'm recommending the Narnia books as you don't say what age the kids are and TCoN are good for everyone from 7 to 70.

Never be ashamed of being proud of your kids,.

Now we are back on track. Why dose bad language bring them down or harm them? This is kind of hard to discuss without knowing the actual words but I'm guessing it the common Anglo Saxon 4 letter ones. Apart from finding them distasteful their is no biblical injunction against this kind of language. Taking the lords name in vain and swearing oaths are forbidden but their are some verses in the bible that are quite earthy.
Mind you distasteful is reason enough to object, unfortinuiatly as you say it everywhere, often unthinkingly and sometimes due to a paupacy of vocabulary but occasionally these words fit the circumstances perfectly. They are both powerfully and satisfying to use. They express venom, humor, frustration, I think we will be using them for a long time yet.

I really don't want to debate with you, as I find it pointless. It feels as one argumentative person moves off, another fills their shoes. That's the way it is, and always has been. I don't see why you might pull apart each part of my answer, just for the sake of it. Bad language is mentioned in the bible.

You know, Our Lord used stories & tales when correcting people, and teaching people? he did!

(keeping it modern n'all) Marco White, the chef? He handed back his Michelin stars, as he felt those judging him on his food, didn't know food as well as him. ... t'was a bit lie taking candy from a child.

tommy2bad

mashedbanana wrote: »

I really don't want to debate with you, as I find it pointless. It feels as one argumentative person moves off, another fills their shoes. That's the way it is, and always has been. I don't see why you might pull apart each part of my answer, just for the sake of it. Bad language is mentioned in the bible.

You know, Our Lord used stories & tales when correcting people, and teaching people? he did!

(keeping it modern n'all) Marco White, the chef? He handed back his Michelin stars, as he felt those judging him on his food, didn't know food as well as him. ... t'was a bit lie taking candy from a child.

Ahem I hate to be the one to break it to you but this is a public forum, we debate things, it's kinda the point.

Sheese and I thought I was being suportive

Oh and that last bit about Marco White, is that some kind of 'I'm too good to be judged by ye' because no one was judging you least of all me. Right now though....I starting to think the plank in your eye might be a bigger concern than the mote in mine!

mashedbanana

tommy2bad wrote: »

Ahem I hate to be the one to break it to you but this is a public forum, we debate things, it's kinda the point.

Sheese and I thought I was being suportive

It's always more of an arugment then a debate. I don't like either tbh, no one gets anything good from it.

tommy2bad

mashedbanana wrote: »

It's always more of an arugment then a debate. I don't like either tbh, no one gets anything good from it.

Yes some times its a case of shouting across each other but debating is good, defending your position is good and you do learn. Doesn't have to be a row, just a discussion.

Geomy

tommy2bad wrote: »

Yes some times its a case of shouting across each other but debating is good, defending your position is good and you do learn. Doesn't have to be a row, just a discussion.

And boards.ie is a great place for debate....

Some craic isn't it Tommy :-)

tommy2bad

I try my best to join in but sometimes I get the impression that their are people who only want to hear back what they said themselves.

doctoremma

tommy2bad wrote: »

Now we are back on track. Why dose bad language bring them down or harm them? This is kind of hard to discuss without knowing the actual words but I'm guessing it the common Anglo Saxon 4 letter ones. Apart from finding them distasteful their is no biblical injunction against this kind of language. Taking the lords name in vain and swearing oaths are forbidden but their are some verses in the bible that are quite earthy.
Mind you distasteful is reason enough to object, unfortinuiatly as you say it everywhere, often unthinkingly and sometimes due to a paupacy of vocabulary but occasionally these words fit the circumstances perfectly. They are both powerfully and satisfying to use. They express venom, humor, frustration, I think we will be using them for a long time yet.

At my high school (ages 13-16), one of our priests started off his RE class with a lesson on swearing. He was tolerant of the standard swearing (and even used the F word to illustrate) but would not, under any circumstances tolerate blasphemy...

I am regarded by my friends as a "sweary" person. It's not to my credit and based entirely on laziness and the amusement I gain from a small shock factor. I don't (usually) swear AT people. And as I say, I don't swear in front of children in any context. This is more because I'd rather they learned a decent vocabulary before relying on the obvious. The ability to insult someone inventively is far better than recourse to expletives!

Any survey of early English literature will reveal all manner of profanity and bawdiness. I'm sure there are very lofty studies surrounding the use and application of swearing in various languages and literature. However, I suspect that for those to be appreciated, one needs a solid grounding in context, which may be ahead of the OP's childrens' years at the moment.

Although it would make my day to chastise a child for swearing and to have them retort "Chaucer says it"

sbsquarepants

mashedbanana wrote: »

I really don't want to debate with you, as I find it pointless.

You did come on an internet discussion site and ask advice.... which you apparently have no interest in hearing.???

And as for no good ever comes from a debate - well, that is just an absolutely baffling point of view.

mashedbanana

But I have already been asked 'Where in the Bible does it say.....' If some people were bothered enough to read the Bible they'd know where & what it has to say on these issues....That was the reason for my initial question. To get other Christians point of view on it. I was asking for their advice, I wasn't asking for a debate. It's impossible to point out the relevant bits, when people will go onto discredit it, because they jump at the chance to purposely read it incorrectly. Anything to disagree, anything for a row.

The only unforgivable sin to swear against the holy spirit. If right was right I should be able to give you the correct reference here.
You asked, going back along 'Why does bad language harm them, or bring them down' We re supposed to be holy as our Lord was Holy. I have never heard any holy person, eg; a Catholic priest, saying fe*k this and fe*k that. With the exception of Ted & Dougall!

The reference in the Bible to bad language are: Ephesians 4 anywhere form verse 17....right through.....
I think in Corinthians too...i'd have to double check that one.

Geomy

tommy2bad wrote: »

I try my best to join in but sometimes I get the impression that their are people who only want to hear back what they said themselves.

Acceptance is supposed to be the answer, so I'm told lol

I accept I like to debate now and again. ...

I work as a gardener in a big site, I constantly get asked, are those Lobelia, hostas, lillies, eringiums....

Nothing more funnier than being asked a question when someone already knows the answer lol

I feel like saying "wow you really know what a lobelia is, it took me year's to get that.
You're the first to ask. ..

tommy2bad

Ephesians 4:29
"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear."
I do know my bible (or have good google skils )

mashedbanana

tommy2bad wrote: »

Ephesians 4:29
"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear."
I do know my bible (or have good google skils )

That made me chuckle! Also Matthew 5. that's a good reference too. Probably the most popular/must.

mashedbanana

Geomy wrote: »

Acceptance is supposed to be the answer, so I'm told lol

I accept I like to debate now and again. ...

I work as a gardener in a big site, I constantly get asked, are those Lobelia, hostas, lillies, eringiums....

Nothing more funnier than being asked a question when someone already knows the answer lol

I feel like saying "wow you really know what a lobelia is, it took me year's to get that.
You're the first to ask. ..

You must love your job, very rewarding. I love to garden too.
People probably approach you for conversation, they probably like gardening too, and feel they might learn something from you!
Them asking you obvious questions, is maybe just a way to engage you.
Like you say, acceptance is the answer :-)

mashedbanana

Of course, I forgot to mention to you tommy, it can depend on what version of the Bible you use to! I have the KJV, but I also have the Christian Community Bible. but that one is a Catholic Pastoral Edition. I started with the Christian Bible, and then moved onto the KjV. the KJV is considered as a protestant Bible, in these parts of the world. I have a concordance on order. Can't wait to get my hands on that. Having the concordance leaves out opportunity for people to say 'That's just your perspective of a verse'

The concordance gives you the Hebrew Greek & English version of a word in the Bible. It's fool proof. It's almost the 'how to' manual for the Bible, and makes reading it so much easier. I just thought I'd mention it.

I'm not a christian, but I find swearing and coarse language offensive. I don't allow my kids use bad language around me and their Dad, but what language they use elsewhere I cannot control. I just let them know from birth what is not acceptable to me and hope that they treat others the same. However, no one can control the language of others. When a guest in our house swears, my Husband and I just look at each other with raised eyebrows. I've found it works, as they notice our disapproval. I have on occasion said "Mind yer fecking language" in a joking tone and it usually does the trick. Ever listen to friends or workmates on the phone? They are as polite as anything in certain conversations and swear like troopers in others, so they can clean it up when necessary.

gaynorvader

I'm not a Christian anymore, and I also don't have a problem with swearing, but I would have a problem with someone swearing in someone's house who was uncomfortable with it. I generally don't swear anymore that to say sugar or janey mac (which I'm not even sure qualifies). Swearing is probably not really mentioned to specifically in the Bible, because what constitutes swearing has changed so much over the years. For instance, a little over a hundred years ago asking for chicken breast or chicken thigh was considered very vulgar and you would ask for white or dark meat instead.
I do disagree with you that the world is a more dreadful place. I actually think that this is the best we've ever been with the possible exception of the Garden of Eden or Noah (which, even when I was a Christian I just viewed as parables rather than literal translations). Women are treated fairly for the most part, people in most countries experience a high level of liberty and have more free time than ever, from a Christian perspective, Christianity is spread the furthest across the globe it ever has been. I think the view that the world is a dreadful place comes from all the information coming from around the world that makes it seem so. Bad things were always happening, it's just now people are more aware of them.

In your own home, you have the right to raise your children as you like. I would talk with your sister and ask if she could just tone it down a little when she's around the kids as she's making you uncomfortable.

sbsquarepants

gaynorvader wrote: »

). I think the view that the world is a dreadful place comes from all the information coming from around the world that makes it seem so. Bad things were always happening, it's just now people are more aware of them.

In your own home, you have the right to raise your children as you like. I would talk with your sister and ask if she could just tone it down a little when she's around the kids as she's making you uncomfortable.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Due to global communications, and a misery obsessed media system, we hear about all these terrible things happening that we never heard of before. But we just didn't hear of them before, they all still happened. The world (our little corner of it anyway) has never had it better. We are wealthier (even allowing for the reccesion) healthier and more free than ever before. Our parents grew up in what we would consider appaling conditions, their parents even worse so. Starvation, sickness, high mortality rates and general cruelty was pretty much endemic in all european countries. European kids today, as a group are probably the luckiest kids ever born on this planet.

tommy2bad

mashedbanana wrote: »

Of course, I forgot to mention to you tommy, it can depend on what version of the Bible you use to! I have the KJV, but I also have the Christian Community Bible. but that one is a Catholic Pastoral Edition. I started with the Christian Bible, and then moved onto the KjV. the KJV is considered as a protestant Bible, in these parts of the world. I have a concordance on order. Can't wait to get my hands on that. Having the concordance leaves out opportunity for people to say 'That's just your perspective of a verse'

The concordance gives you the Hebrew Greek & English version of a word in the Bible. It's fool proof. It's almost the 'how to' manual for the Bible, and makes reading it so much easier. I just thought I'd mention it.

I bought a copy of the King James Bible: 400th Anniversary Edition just because, enjoyed dipping into it but for everyday use (well occasional use tbh) the NIV is a pretty good one. Don't like the good news one we used in school. I'm not sure if that's because of school or a fault in the book itself.
And you are right knowing both the Hebrew and Greek is important to getting the ideas they were trying to put across.
As I get older I find passages mean something entirely different than what I took from them when younger, Am I getting wiser or dumber, I don't know but I appreciated the depth and scope of the bible far more than I did before.

mashedbanana

I suppose to clarify, I feel that the world has a lot more evil & darkness in it. These are just my own musings of course. Women are treated more fairly thank God! and things on a whole 'seem' a lot better. I was coming at this from a Christian point of view. It's great to have free speech....but when it's used to insult/hurt someone...just cos we can, and get away with it. That kind of thing. That is what I meant.

It's trying to strike that happy middle ground between freedom, and (for me) doing my best to play by the rules. To a certain extent we all have to play by the rules. The laws in our justice system...for example. As a Christian I have those rules, and the Bible rules to follow too. As all Christians do!

Everything and everyone seems very liberated nowadays, which is a good thing. I know. But I think it is human nature to know no boundaries, without laws or rules, if you will. I personally need them.

The media, it seems, is always the bearer of bad news. For a long time, I stopped watching the news. It was always about some shooting, stabbing...always something bad. I'm compelled to say this now....but here goes...if more people, believed in the Bible, and fear the living God, it would certainly decrease the amount of killings, bloodshed, torture, and grief in general.

If folk out there, sat and read through a few of the Psalms maybe (I keep reminding myself that I'm on a Christian Forum, I should feel safe to say all this) then there would be a drop in arguments, bitterness, and the need to drag eachother down. It would be an all round genuine happier world. But hey! that's just my opinion, not a debate. Some folk feel they don't need to change though, I certainly needed to change! I don't consider myself perfect, I' still improving myself! Anyway.... that's just the way it is, :-)

mashedbanana

tommy2bad wrote: »

I bought a copy of the King James Bible: 400th Anniversary Edition just because, enjoyed dipping into it but for everyday use (well occasional use tbh) the NIV is a pretty good one. Don't like the good news one we used in school. I'm not sure if that's because of school or a fault in the book itself.
And you are right knowing both the Hebrew and Greek is important to getting the ideas they were trying to put across.
As I get older I find passages mean something entirely different than what I took from them when younger, Am I getting wiser or dumber, I don't know but I appreciated the depth and scope of the bible far more than I did before.

I feel the same about understanding passages more so now..then maybe even 2 months ago! I ask the Lord, to give me clarity, when I read it. There is a chapeter in the Bible, a time for everything. I do believe that the Lord will let us understand a certain amount, and when the time is right, the rest will be relieved. This is how I explain my ignorance to certain bits & pieces of it. When God wants me to know he rest...he'll reveal it.

As a side note. I have experienced a lot, during my life. I suppose, I can honestly say, I have had so many obstacles come up against me, it's ridiculous! As a female, a daughter, a wife, a mother, a sister, I've had some of the worst situations imaginable. If it could go wrong...it did go wrong. Ya know what I mean. Yet the only thing that pulled me through and made sense was the Bible. I used to take a drink (which is allowed) but on occasions I'd get drunk (which isn't allowed) I used to smoke too. Like a chimney. I loved my fags. But it all went. I do believe it's cos I have God in my life.

doctoremma

mashedbanana wrote: »

I'm compelled to say this now....but here goes...if more people, believed in the Bible, and fear the living God, it would certainly decrease the amount of killings, bloodshed, torture, and grief in general.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/16/what-percentage-of-prisoners-are-atheists-its-a-lot-smaller-than-we-ever-imagined/

http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Percentage_of_atheists

TLDR: atheists are under-represented in prisons.

Now, I'm not going to read too much into that here. I would say that I think it correlation, not cause and effect. I suspect the best tactic for decreasing the amounts of killing/bloodshed/etc is to address poverty and improve education.

tommy2bad

doctoremma wrote: »

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/16/what-percentage-of-prisoners-are-atheists-its-a-lot-smaller-than-we-ever-imagined/

http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Percentage_of_atheists

TLDR: atheists are under-represented in prisons.

Now, I'm not going to read too much into that here. I would say that I think it correlation, not cause and effect. I suspect the best tactic for decreasing the amounts of killing/bloodshed/etc is to address poverty and improve education.

Well 'no atheists in foxholes' they do say!

mashedbanana

Of course we have false converts too!
We have people claiming to know the living God, but are tealeafs! and rapists, and murders....etc....
We have people who go to mass on Sunday morning, and spend the rest of the afternoon in the local, propping up the bar.

There has been more bloodshed and strife over religion...then most anything else.
I'm not promoting religion! Shur, that is one of the age old questions, people unsure what religion to follow.

I'm into the Bible, and being a Christian. There is a difference. We are only here for a very short amount of time...just passing through. I'm more worried about where my family & me are going to spend eternity...then I am about the 70 years I'll have here on earth. That is what drives me.

catrionanic

Again I'd like to add that I'm far and away more concerned about the impact you're having on your daughter by telling her to act and behave a certain way, ie. more girly/less boyish, than on an impact hearing a few swear words is going to have on her.

You're telling her that she shouldnt be the person that she is, that the person she's being is unattractive/distasteful. This does infinitely more harm than the odd F-word escaping her aunty's lips.

Perhaps a time to step back and reassess from a more objective standpoint, as you seem to be getting so embroiled in this swearing sensitivity that it's clouding your judgment on other important issues at play.

sbsquarepants

What age are your kids mashedbanana? Are they babies, teenagers, somewhere in between, what?
What happens if they turn out different to how you hope they will, or your idea of what they should be? Like a few others here, the be more girly comment has kinda shocked me, i would never say anything like that to my kids (especially the boy:D). Stuff like that can be really hurtfull and damaging to kids self esteem.
I know your intentions are good, but you know what they say about the road to hell.

mashedbanana

catrionanic wrote: »

Again I'd like to add that I'm far and away more concerned about the impact you're having on your daughter by telling her to act and behave a certain way, ie. more girly/less boyish, than on an impact hearing a few swear words is going to have on her.

You're telling her that she shouldnt be the person that she is, that the person she's being is unattractive/distasteful. This does infinitely more harm than the odd F-word escaping her aunty's lips.

Perhaps a time to step back and reassess from a more objective standpoint, as you seem to be getting so embroiled in this swearing sensitivity that it's clouding your judgment on other important issues at play.

Again, I'd like to thank you for your input!
There is nothing wrong with correcting her behaviour. Correcting a childs bad behaviour is in no way limiting there personality! Surely that's an easy one to grasp? If not, then I can't think of anyother way to explain it tbh

As far as her aunts choice of language it is nothing short of shameful. Truly! It's horrendous. So, I have no intention of allowing the little ones to listen to it. I don't want my 9 year old coming out with some of those choice words! Who (come on now!) thinks it's cool, and funny to hear a child of 9 say the F word? or the C word. Do you think it's nice?

Say, she went into school, in September. Walked up to her teacher, who she hasn't seen since May and said (can you see it coming?) Hey Mrs Smith, how the 'F' are you? Should I stand there, pat her on the head, and say 'Opps darling, did you let that one slip? I feel I should correct you, but hey, if it's part of you character growth...then that's A O K!

Or....here's another example..Should I let my family (any of them, makes no difference) F & blind as much as they want, because it said in some paper, that people that swear are more straight forward and speak their mind? Making them more believable? Really? (that was mentioned earlier)

My husband & I want our kids well behaved. When a child is reared correctly, they strike a happy balance. Kids are going to make noise, fool around, act silly etc. But there is nothing wrong with them toning down their behaviour when asked.

When we go out on a Sunday, I ask them what they want to wear. They ALWAYS go for a dress, and their long hair tied up in a pretty way. That to me = girly. I don't know any boy that wears a dress on a sunday, and ribbons in his hair. Cos he is a boy. I don't wear a dress every Sunday. Maybe I should! 9 tenths of the time, they are both very girly. Which suits me just fine. It's a bit of a win win situation! It just so happened, that one of them did something, that immediately came to my attention, and the child needed to be steered in the right direction.

You do know, there is nothing wrong with boys being boys, and girls being girls. Just in case you are wondering....ya, I would have a very a coronary if I walked in on my teenager son, trying on my shoes, and wearing lipstick. But that doesn't mean I wont let my daughter play with typical boys toys, muck around in the sandpit with the water hose. etc.

gaynorvader

mashedbanana wrote: »

[...]

I'm compelled to say this now....but here goes...if more people, believed in the Bible, and fear the living God, it would certainly decrease the amount of killings, bloodshed, torture, and grief in general.

If folk out there, sat and read through a few of the Psalms maybe (I keep reminding myself that I'm on a Christian Forum, I should feel safe to say all this) then there would be a drop in arguments, bitterness, and the need to drag eachother down. It would be an all round genuine happier world. But hey! that's just my opinion, not a debate. Some folk feel they don't need to change though, I certainly needed to change! I don't consider myself perfect, I' still improving myself! Anyway.... that's just the way it is, :-)

I do disagree, but as you yourself said this is not the place for that debate