2 Penalty Points & fee, is it possible to get these thrown out?

Cuppa_JoJo

I greatly appreciate any help/info you can give me...

Back in May of this year, I was supposedly caught doing 68kph in a 50kph area in Rochestown, by, I assume, a speed van. I was issued a €80 fine and 2 penalty points to be paid by next week. However I have been told that due to the fact that it is based on the 'Road Traffic Act 2002', that it is not legit as it is an 'Act' and not a Law. Once you have paid the fee you are automatically admitting that yes I was speeding and that this is a scare-tactic, when sending the form to the home of the driver, they panic and hence pay the fee which in turn, they are convicting themselves.
So that once this gets to court it is thrown out, has anybody heard anything about this?
Thanking you in advance!

partyatmygaff

Don't listen to freeman nonsense, speeding is against the law and you were caught speeding. An act is law, if it isn't a law what is it?

If you want to tell the judge that the road traffic act isn't a law and you think that'll actually get you off, best of luck because you'll need it.

afatbollix

Load of bollix.. If it was true dont you think everyone would be doing it!

corktina

an Act is a Bill that has been passed into Law. It is the Law, don't listen to bar-stool lawyers (idiots basically)

Mycroft H

And the most ridiculous excuse to get out of a speeding fine goes to....

seamus

Whoever told you this is full of ****.

Go to court with this defence and you will receive 4 points and a hefty fine for wasting the court's time.

Pay your FPN and take your points.

bazz26

OP, what are asking here? Were you wrongly identified as going above the speed limit or what?

28064212

Cuppa_JoJo wrote: »

However I have been told that due to the fact that it is based on the 'Road Traffic Act 2002', that it is not legit as it is an 'Act' and not a Law

The Criminal Justice Act is what makes murder illegal. Do you think it's not legit? The person who told you this is an idiot, and up there with "a Garda can't arrest you if he's not wearing a hat" on the stupidity scale

Also: "A driver may challenge the speeding violation in Court. However, if found guilty of the Offence, four penalty points will be endorsed on their licence and they will be subject to a Maximum fine of €800 for a first offence."

BMJD

If the speed van wasn't wearing a hat when it caught you, afaik the judge will give you a million euros in court. Happened a fella I know.

cpoh1

If you go to court you will get a larger fine but you wont get points in all likelihood - its very rare that the courts will 1. ask for your licence details or 2. follow up afterwards once the court fine has been issued to get your licence details to apply points.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

cpoh1 wrote: »

If you go to court you will get a larger fine but you wont get points in all likelihood - its very rare that the courts will 1. ask for your licence details or 2. follow up afterwards once the court fine has been issued to get your licence details to apply points.

Well that's total bollox.

callaway92

Cuppa_JoJo wrote: »

I greatly appreciate any help/info you can give me...

Back in May of this year, I was supposedly caught doing 68kph in a 50kph area in Rochestown, by, I assume, a speed van.

LOL

partyatmygaff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land

This is more than likely what the OP was told about. A bunch of crazies who think they have the option to opt-in to laws when it suits them.

tossy

Cuppa_JoJo wrote: »

I greatly appreciate any help/info you can give me...

Back in May of this year, I was supposedly caught doing 68kph in a 50kph area in Rochestown, by, I assume, a speed van. I was issued a €80 fine and 2 penalty points to be paid by next week. However I have been told that due to the fact that it is based on the 'Road Traffic Act 2002', that it is not legit as it is an 'Act' and not a Law. Once you have paid the fee you are automatically admitting that yes I was speeding and that this is a scare-tactic, when sending the form to the home of the driver, they panic and hence pay the fee which in turn, they are convicting themselves.
So that once this gets to court it is thrown out, has anybody heard anything about this?
Thanking you in advance!

Good on you sir/Madame, we need more people like this in the country. When you sort this embarrassing (for the government) mess out can you turn your sights to VRT,North and South Korea,The IMF and maybe try bring F1 to Dublin. I honestly doubt there is anything beyond your powers.

All hail Cuppa_jojo.

cpoh1

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Well that's total bollox.

How's that? My wife is a solicitor, sees it all the time and it happened to me specifically a few months ago. I was out of the country for a few months and got a fixed notice while I was away. Went to court, got fined (the original €80) and no points. It was the same for everyone else except a lot had higher fines. No licence mentioned and no follow up afterwards when paying the court fine at the clerks office.

Unless you have direct experience yourself???

wilford

Since when did you have to hand in your license into the court to get points on it? are they not automatically applied following conviction?

Cuppa_JoJo

afatbollix wrote: »

Load of bollix.. If it was true dont you think everyone would be doing it!

My thoughts exactly...

cpoh1

wilford wrote: »

Since when did you have to hand in your license into the court to get points on it? are they not automatically applied following conviction?

And how exactly does that happen? There's a reason they ask you for your drivers licence number when filling in the original form and its not just the fact that you need to name the driver of the car.

There is a disconnect between the courts system/the summons/the court fine and the fixed penalty notice and points allocation process.

not too interested if people believe me but the problem is there, ive experienced it first hand.

tin79

Cuppa_JoJo wrote: »

My thoughts exactly...

And yet you believed them enough to come on here and ask

Triangla

cpoh1 wrote: »

And how exactly does that happen? There's a reason they ask you for your drivers licence number when filling in the original form and its not just the fact that you need to name the driver of the car.

There is a disconnect between the courts system/the summons/the court fine and the fixed penalty notice and points allocation process.

not too interested if people believe me but the problem is there, ive experienced it first hand.

Old thread on that here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055821976

Cuppa_JoJo

tin79 wrote: »

And yet you believed them enough to come on here and ask

Well, wouldn't you?
I, thankfully, know a lot more on this subject than what I did 3/4 hours ago...
It was great to get so many opinions

For Forks Sake

partyatmygaff wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land

This is more than likely what the OP was told about. A bunch of crazies who think they have the option to opt-in to laws when it suits them.

Bunch of f*cking lunatics.

Anyhoo: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land#Freeman_successes

Tordelback

There is no creature more unpleasant than a judge facing a full morning of traffic offences when confronted with someone wasting the Court's time.

For Forks Sake

Tordelback wrote: »

There is no creature more unpleasant than a judge facing a full morning of traffic offences when confronted with someone wasting the Court's time.

Judges have no time for that sort of nonsense, like the genius in the case below. There's a video somewhere of some Freeman types trying to invoke maritime law in a court sitting by shouting 'man overboard' repeatedly, for some reason; if i can find it I'll post it up, it's ridiculous.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/enniscorthyguardian/news/bobby-of-the-family-sludds-may-be-jailed-27250040.html

13 SEPTEMBER 2011

BOBBY SLUDDS, Bobby Oliver Sludds or Bobby of the family Sludds - call him what you like, a blizzard of legal paperwork could not stave off two motor insurance convictions and a series of fines imposed on the man from 11 Ballagh Cove in The Ballagh last week.

And Sludds faces a decision on one final piece of legal paperwork as he was given seven days to sign bonds binding himself to the peace, or else face seven months in jail.

The prosecution was brought by Garda Michael O'Grady against the colourful and articulate defendant for offences committed in The Ballagh during April and May of last year. However, before the Garda could give his evidence, the accused handed in a letter and stated that he was not Mr. Sludds. He also queried the use of the word 'person' in the charge, to no avail.

He said he was not Bobby Oliver Sludds - whom he described as 'a fictional entity' - and preferred to be known as Bobby of the family Sludds. Judge William Early accepted this and marked the charges 'also known as Bobby of the family Sludds' before using this form of address throughout the rest of the proceedings.

The case continued, with the judge taking time to read a number of documents handed up to him by the accused. He also heard Bobby of the family Sludds, who came to court with at least eight supporters, quote passages from 'Black's Legal Dictionary'.

Garda O'Grady told how he first came across a blue Honda Civic bearing the registration BS PFN in Ballinamona on April 28 last year. The driver pointed a camera at him, when he approached. Insurance, motor tax and NCT summonses followed against Sludds who told the officer at the time he was a 'free man travelling, not driving'.

Michael O'Grady reported that that BS PFN appeared to stand for 'Bobby Sludds, Private Free Man'. A more conventional registration plate, 91 WX 3554, was in the back of the Honda.

Further summonses were issued after vehicle BS PFN was seen on the road once more a few weeks later on May 19 at Castle Ellis. The Garda turned on his blue flashing lights and followed the defendant to Ballagh Cove.

The accused refused to supply name or address and again said that he was ' travelling'. However, he did admit that there was an engine in the vehicle and a steering wheel in his hand. No evidence of insurance cover or driving licence was ever produced.

A various stages during the hearing, the accused described the prosecution case as negligent and the Garda testimony as falsified. He said he felt that the force was conspiring against him. He applied for an adjournment to allow him produce video evidence. When this application was unsuccessful, he called for trial by judge and jury.

Judge Early explained that he was not entitled to any such trial before finding the case against Bobby of the family Sludds proven. The court learned that the defendant had 24 previous convictions for motoring offences, including two for driving without insurance.

Sludds said he was not working. He dismissed the State as a fictional entity. He asked: 'Have I offended anyone here?', prompting a chorus of 'No' from his supporters.

' The people have spoken,' he concluded.

The judge concluded otherwise, imposing €670 in fines for the lack of driving licence, motor tax and NCT. He recorded a three month jail sentence on the first insurance charge, suspended on Bobby of the family Sludds entering a bond to be of good behaviour for two years. On the second insurance charge, the sentence was four months, suspended on similar conditions.

The accused indicated that he intended to consider whether to sign. The judge offered him free legal aid but Bobby of the family Sludds said this was not necessary.

biko

Go to court.
Be sure to let us know how you got on :-D

dingding

There was the same sort of argument for the household charge. Hope you are not in court the same day as some of those OP.

Judge will be really fed up and dishing out custodial sentences by the time you get to him/her.

dingding

biko wrote: »

Go to court.
Be sure to let us know how you got on :-D

Let us know when it is so we can go as your supporters.

Bobby of the family Sludds used this tactic to great effect.

We should be able to round up more than 8

dingding

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/news/man-who-had-standoff-with-judge-is-released-27508991.html

Another tactic is ask the Judge to prove his credentials by showing his Oath.

Should go down well and get the sentence un-suspended.

cpoh1

An easier way than the silly stuff above is to go to court, plead with the judge that you left the fine under a pillow, in a cupboard and completely forgot about it etc. and are really sorry for wasting the courts time. You'll get a fine, probably larger than the original €80 fine with the bonus of no points etc. Plead not guilty and say you didnt get the fine in the post, you will be asked to wait until the end and the case will be struck out. You need to decide when pleading if the not guilty plea is worth hanging around an extra 3-4 hours.

The judges ask all "not guilty" pleas to wait until the end because when they start striking them out they dont want to envoke a mass "I didnt get the fine in the post".

Only downside of going to court is that its a day of your holidays gone. Not worth it for me personally.

Renegade Mechanic

Take your points like a man, OP. Theyll make life intolerable for you if you dont.

pa990

Dont pay, but tell us what date the summons is for.
I could do with a good laugh in Court

cpoh1

pa990 wrote: »

I could do with a good laugh in Court

Have you nothing better to be doing?

Just pop down to the district court any day of the week and you will see hundreds of people disputing fines if thats what floats your boat.

dingding

It would be some craic. We could keep this thread updated from the court.

It would be the best thread ever.

biko

We'll never forget you Bobby Sludds

pa990

cpoh1 wrote: »

Have you nothing better to be doing?

Just pop down to the district court any day of the week and you will see hundreds of people disputing fines if thats what floats your boat.

I'm down the courts regularly, but it's always fun to see a crack pot in front of the judge, it's even better when you know s crackpot is on the list.
You've something to look forward to.