Parents assessed before allowed to have children?

12gauge dave

I know this has potential to be a disaster thread and i dont mean to offend anyone but i was just thinking should parents be assessed before having kids as in should drug addicts criminals or people that will not be able to look after children be allowed to have children for example?
There are so many people having kids in bad enviroments etc and in general bad people having kids in turn raising them badly and this going on for generations.
I know the idea will never come into effect in our lifetimes and to take away someones right to have children is morally wrong but it just passed my mind and was wondering peoples views.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Yea like the Killers of Brian Murphy came from deprived childhoods, as did Malcolm McArthur, Larry Murphy etc:rolleyes:

padma

let it keep passing your mind

endacl

Well, as After Hours usually = Daily Mail. I'd say the thread should get a sympathetic read...

FWIW. I disagree. What a silly idea.

YbFocus

What are they going to start doing, neutering everyone with a criminal record?

Clandestine

I totally agree with you OP, but I doubt we'd see it introduced, as much as it is needed.

endacl

endacl wrote: »

Well, as After Hours usually = Daily Mail. I'd say the thread should get a sympathetic read...

FWIW. I disagree. What a silly idea.

Why? If a person or couple are proven to be a drug addict(s), proven to have severely violent tendencies, or proven to be generally an asshole(s) then should they really be allowed to have children, who have to grow up in that mess?

keelanj69

You need a license for a dog OP but any arsehole can have a child.

Gee Bag

The problem is that well-to-do mummys aren't drinkin', schmokin', fightin' or taking enough drugs when pregnant.

They should be assessed and if need be forced to party hard. That should level the playing field for everyone........

Lelantos

I think we should sterilize the OP

The Backwards Man

keelanj69 wrote: »

You need a license for a dog OP but any arsehole can have a child.

Any arsehole can get a dog licence too, that's not the greatest comparison ever made.:pac:

padma

I think this is a thread to find out the distasteful people on boards.ie

troll

12gauge dave

keelanj69 wrote: »

You need a license for a dog OP but any arsehole can have a child.

Well played

candy-gal1

Oooooooh I really like this idea OP!

As much as I know it would take a loooooonnnng time to come into practise, if it ever did, just look at how much backwards and forwards talk is going on about abortion tbh :rolleyes:

There couldnt be much harm in it imho really, or maybe Ive just lived in a crap area for too long, after living and moving about quite a fair bit through all "normal" areas and never getting even a hint of abuse/harrasment etc, then I get to a council estate full of kids/teens where popping out sprogs seems to be the proffession :rolleyes: the last 8 years and Im actually shocked at the difference!
And no Im not a former D4 head or some such thing, Ive only ever lived on the north side, just good/normal parts of it it seems and I cannot wait to get back to somewhere like that tbh :)

Sunnyisland

This should be good.

Carlos Orange

I'm coming around to the idea the state should raise all kids.

crazy cabbage

So do you want to stop people having sex or just force women to have abortions like they do (or maby did) in china?

Sunnyisland

I think parenting should be part of the education system from early, I am not in favour of it being assessed although I can see some good reasons for it, confused so am I :-)

12gauge dave

realies wrote: »

I think parenting should be part of the education system from early, I am not in favour of it being assessed although I can see some good reasons for it, confused so am I :-)

Good idea putting parenting into eduacation.
My problem is just that why should bad people be able to bring an innocent child into the world to then poison it and turn it bad itself and it just continue on and on from generation to generation

Femme_Fatale

Some people definitely are not capable of parenting, but mandatory sterilisation/abortion - bridge too far IMO.

Any systems along these lines should only be implemented after birth. It's the protection of the child I'm thinking of, not punishment of the parents. And the children's referendum is a step in this direction.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Any arsehole can get a dog licence too, that's not the greatest comparison ever made.:pac:

It's the most over-used line ever in relation to this topic, yet it's always treated as really original!

Why always a dog licence too? What about a TV licence and a gun licence? Mix it up a little! :pac:

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

How do you enforce it? Little Anto has an asbo, better tag his todger there, make sure he's not stickin' it into Jacinta and draggin' up another little delinquent brat child :rolleyes:

12gauge dave

Johnny Electricity wrote: »

How do you enforce it? Little Anto has an asbo, better tag his todger there, make sure he's not stickin' it into Jacinta and draggin' up another little delinquent brat child :rolleyes:

I have no idea how you would enforce it to be honest and it will prob never happen not anytime soon anyway untill the its too late and the scum out populate the decent people and theres not enough of us working to pay for their social welfare and the world shuts down:)ha

Eramen

endacl wrote: »

Well, as After Hours usually = Daily Mail. I'd say the thread should get a sympathetic read...

FWIW. I disagree. What a silly idea.

I guess we just don't derive as much entertainment from skanger beach fights as you do. Sigh.

I'd go one step further and say that people who have proven themselves to be good parents via their own merits and clean genetics should be rewarded for having more children.

keelanj69

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Some people definitely are not capable of parenting, but mandatory sterilisation/abortion - bridge too far IMO.

Any systems along these lines should only be implemented after birth. It's the protection of the child I'm thinking of, not punishment of the parents. And the children's referendum is a step in this direction.

It's the most over-used line ever in relation to this topic, yet it's always treated as really original!

Why always a dog licence too? What about a TV licence and a gun licence? Mix it up a little! :pac:

Who said anything about it being original?

Next time don't jump the gun licence.

candy-gal1

Tbh there should be tests, of whatever kind, of both the parents plus a checking out of how they live, where they live, the financial situation and plans for it for the future of theirs and their reasons for having/wanting children.

Maybe not mandatory sterilization/abortions, but definitely mandatory adoptions or state-care if the person is proven to be an unfit parent. If the person proves that they are capable and have changed their lives around, then they could be allowed to have their child back.

Sunnyisland

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Tbh there should be tests, of whatever kind, of both the parents plus a checking out of how they live, where they live, the financial situation and plans for it for the future of theirs and their reasons for having/wanting children.

Ah come on candy-gal monster

Femme_Fatale

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Tbh there should be tests, of whatever kind, of both the parents plus a checking out of how they live, where they live, the financial situation and plans for it for the future of theirs and their reasons for having/wanting children.

And if they don't make the grade, how are they to be stopped from procreation?

Aineoil

How do you assess some one to be a parent?

Shouldn't the question be how do you stop a person being a parent? You can't.

keelanj69

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

And if they don't make the grade, how are they to be stopped from procreation?

What if we issue sex licences?

Boombastic

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? If a person or couple are proven to be a drug addict(s), proven to have severely violent tendencies, or proven to be generally an asshole(s) then should they really be allowed to have children, who have to grow up in that mess?

What kind to parameters would be set? Would it be a sliding scale huge asshole no children allowed, just a bit of an asshole 1 child...? :pac:

RobbingBandit

Human Biology After Hours style, babies come from the asshole, there was me thinking they came from the vagina, you learn something nonsensical every day in after hours...

candy-gal1

realies wrote: »

Ah come on candy-gal monster

It may seem monsterous to some, I like that btw - candy monster , but hypathetically if something like that was to come in these seem like the most humane rules and way to go by really, to me anyway.

oldyouth

You would be passed child bearing age by time you get an appointment for assessment in this country

candy-gal1

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

And if they don't make the grade, how are they to be stopped from procreation?

Well as bad as it may sound to some, sterilization should occur in that instance, that would be only if the parent/parents decided that they did not want to even try and change their ways to become good parents and just didnt give a ****, which should be seen by the tests taken.

Femme_Fatale

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Well as bad as it may sound to some, sterilization should occur in that instance, that would be only if the parent/parents decided that they did not want to even try and change their ways to become good parents and just didnt give a ****, which should be seen by the tests taken.

How about waiting until after the child is born instead of something as drastic as disabling a person's reproductive system...? A person who could be 20 years of age and capable of becoming an entirely changed individual by 32. Who gets sterilised? The man or woman or both?
What about all the cases where children aren't planned? Is it abortions in those cases when it's too late for sterilisation?
How would a government agency know that a couple needs to be assessed as to their parenting capabilities? It's not like a signal beams out from every couple who decide they're having a child.

Let's face it: it's a stupid idea, involving zero thought.

crazy cabbage

So lets say i am a former drug adict. Spent a year in jail when i was 18 over a stupid drunken fight. I grew up in a really bad enviroment (i dont know. One of the 'bad' estates around dublin where everything i was doing was seen as 'normal' to my peers) and droped out of school at 16.

But then I got my **** together. I went back to school when i was 22 then went on to get a degree in astro-physics. Cut the habit completely and only drink twice a year. Met this really really amazing girl and i want to spend my life with her. Have been going out for 5 years now and getting married next year. She makes life worth living.
I have done some bad things in my time and things I am not proud of and i really don't know if i will be a good parent or not. What new parent does though? But what i do know is i will love my wife and child with all my heart and will try my very best to me a good father to my child.


All the above is bull**** but ye get the point. Based on this guys past he shouldn't 'qualify' to have a child. But do ye think he should be allowed to have a child?
I would agree if it was shown that a parent is being a bad parent to their child that the child should be taken off them. But to enforce that before the child is even born and before the parents even have a chance to prove that they are excellent parents is just flat out stupid in my opinion.


Plus they way this is phrased seems to suggest going down the road of forced abortion or forced sterilization. Im pro-choice so do not agree with forced anything

daithi1970

psinno wrote: »

I'm coming around to the idea the state should raise all kids.

so what do you think of the job they have done so far?:rolleyes:

shruikan2553

I think that some people shouldnt be allowed to be parents but the problem is it is difficult to go about it. I wouldnt see having a child as a right. It is a responsibility to raise a child to an adult member of society and there are plenty of people just poping them out to be scumbags,

riffmongous

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

How about waiting until after the child is born instead of something as drastic as disabling a person's reproductive system...? A person who could be 20 years of age and capable of becoming an entirely changed individual by 32. Who gets sterilised? The man or woman or both?
What about all the cases where children aren't planned? Is it abortions in those cases when it's too late for sterilisation?
How would a government agency know that a couple needs to be assessed as to their parenting capabilities? It's not like a signal beams out from every couple who decide they're having a child.

Let's face it: it's a stupid idea, involving zero thought.

Big +1 that. How anyone could honestly suggest sterilization as a solution disgusts me. What about trying to help people become better parents and help improve peoples lifestyles instead of inflicting some irreversible harm.

And to everyone suggesting the State should take over all these children, what happens then? Incase anyone has forgotten the State doesnt exactly have a great track record in having so many vulnerable people in its care, very few countries do.

Turtwig

How on earth would you enforce this rule OP? Sterilise the couples? Forced abortions? Something else?
It should be pretty obvious that what you are suggesting is probably immoral.

Femme_Fatale

There is an answer, and it doesn't have to involve doctors psychically figuring out two random people are having a baby and the abortion police dragging them away to be fixed:

Massively improved child protection services. It's not actually that complicated. Of course it's not as much fun and punitive as mandatory sterilisation.

irritablebaz

good idea, maybe we could also segregate the more desirable families from the less desirable ones. i think income and an intelligence test would be a good start. then maybe we could separate the colours as they dont seem to be mixing very well. religion as well should come into the equation, oops, seems like we have just landed in nazi germany. zieg hiel and all that jazz brother.

shruikan2553

irritablebaz wrote: »

good idea, maybe we could also segregate the more desirable families from the less desirable ones. i think income and an intelligence test would be a good start. then maybe we could separate the colours as they dont seem to be mixing very well. religion as well should come into the equation, oops, seems like we have just landed in nazi germany. zieg hiel and all that jazz brother.

Godwin took longer than I expected.

candy-gal1

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

How about waiting until after the child is born instead of something as drastic as disabling a person's reproductive system...? A person who could be 20 years of age and capable of becoming an entirely changed individual by 32. Who gets sterilised? The man or woman or both?
What about all the cases where children aren't planned? Is it abortions in those cases when it's too late for sterilisation?
How would a government agency know that a couple needs to be assessed as to their parenting capabilities? It's not like a signal beams out from every couple who decide they're having a child.

Let's face it: it's a stupid idea, involving zero thought.

Maybe it is a stupid idea to some or even most, but in answer to your very first question there, at 20 years of age that is quite young to be getting pregnant, maybe they would wait till theyve sorted themselves out at 32 or whatever age and then try for kids if they want, 32 is not exactly late for trying for children imho

daithi1970

I know what we could do..take the kids into state care and put the untermensch parents into forced labour to pay for their childrens' up-keep laundries, or some such thing like that could work, maybe get some nuns to oversee the whole process...............

Femme_Fatale

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Maybe it is a stupid idea to some or even most

It's not workable and it involves being able to read minds.

but in answer to your very first question there, at 20 years of age that is quite young to be getting pregnant, maybe they would wait till theyve sorted themselves out at 32 or whatever age and then try for kids

But that's neither here nor there if they want to have children at 20 or are having children at 20. They are biologically capable of doing so.

if they want, 32 is not exactly late for trying for children imho

I... never said it was. I actually used that age to illustrate how a person might want to start a family at 32, which they wouldn't be able to do if the state has them sterilised when they're younger.

jam_mac_jam

What a disgusting and impracticable idea. How would you even begin to enforce this. Its so far from being even remotely possible.

Sin City

I say we just execute all the knackers and scumbags in the country.
Lets do away with the whole assesment to have kids, because lets face it, you aint going to stop Johnny scumbag and mary scumbag procreating are you. Once its been established that they are a blight in our communities then they should be taken away and shot. Simplez


This thread is really stupid

irritablebaz

daithi1970 wrote: »

I know what we could do..take the kids into state care and put the untermensch parents into forced labour to pay for their childrens' up-keep laundries, or some such thing like that could work, maybe get some nuns to oversee the whole process...............

scarey thing is there are some out there who would just love to go back to those days. they would have anyone in there within a week of going unemployed along with their children.

crazy cabbage

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I think that some people shouldnt be allowed to be parents but the problem is it is difficult to go about it. I wouldnt see having a child as a right. It is a responsibility to raise a child to an adult member of society and there are plenty of people just poping them out to be scumbags,

Like Femme_Fatale said why not improve (massively) out child protection services. While we are at is we should clean up some of the ****ty estates that a lot of these people grow up in. And some of the crap schools that some of these go to. I heard that there is a school in Dublin nicknamed the pharmacy :eek: That is not parents fault. That is a **** neighborhood (I am guessing. I have never been there. Apologies if i am wrong. It could be lovely. but seriously? The pharmacy?? WTF)
While we are at is lets make our prison system revovle and focus on rehabalitation so when 'bad' people go into jail they magically come out 'good'. Because as it stands most come out worse that they went in.
Also why not stop treating drug addicts as criminals and start treating them as you know, people... Drug addiction should be a medical problem first and formost. Not a criminal problem.

Fix problems like these and I think you will find that the issue people are on about will magically fix itself.