Found out my 07 Mondeo was taxed as a taxi after I went to trade it in.

Psygnosis

Hi,

Well 3 to 4 years ago I bought a 07 Mondeo Platinum Spec Saloon mk3 TDCI, with 80km's on the clock, from a dealer in Laois I traded in a 01 seat leon at the time.
I'm looking to change the car now as we need a bigger one with the family expanding. I went to view a car today and after they checked mine they said it was taxed as a taxi and showed me the cartell/car history report to confirm this.
I have rang the garage I bought it off and they fobbed me off as it was so long ago and said the previous owner ran a chauffeur business and had taxed the car this way so he could drive it cheaply.
The car is in perfect condition and I have got it serviced on time since I have owned it.

What I'm wondering now is will any garage let me trade it in. Or if I sell it privately how would I go about explaining the tax situation.
It leaves me an awful situation as I had banked on getting a certain amount from a trade in but that seems shot now.

Can any one give me some options and if any dealers read this what would your take be on it.

OldmanMondeo

Unless you have something in writing saying it was never classed as a taxi, then there is nothing you can do.

Psygnosis

I don't think I'm going to be able too do you think I have any resale value with it

Old diesel

Straight question - how much have you being paying for tax over the last 4 years - if it has being taxed as a taxi for the last few years then the rate will be something very low - around 80 to 90 euros I think.

If its being taxed private then it will be a lot dearer - around 700 to 800 (can't remember what the new rate is) for the 12 months.

The price of the tax will be on the disc - and id also say that if the Mondeos taxed private - it will say that on the disc too.

My point being that it may be possible that the taxation class was changed - but the history file might be showing inaccurate info.

Other issue is that if the car is coming back as having been a taxi when history check is carried out - dealers might be concerned that the mileage seems extremely low for a taxi and if theres no paperwork to back up the mileage of the car 4 years ago - then they might feel the mileage is questionable.

Id say that this is more the reason why the dealer is seeing the results of the history check - car previously taxed as taxi - as a concern - rather then the tax issue itself.

Psygnosis

I have it taxed as I private car from when I purchased it, I kept an eye online on the motortax webpage to see if the owner had changed and when it did. I taxed it as a private car. Thinking about it now it took ages for the car to be changed name.

I have nothing to clarify the mileage of when I bought it, I have all my service docs and NCT docs from when I bought it.
There was no wear on the foot pedals gear stick or seat when I bought it. Still none now.

OldmanMondeo

The problem is more that a Taxi is worth less than a private car. OP might have paid the private retail price on the car and not the PSV price, I think it is around 25% lower (open to correction here). OP will also get less on the trade in for the newer car, basically the OP may have been "scammed" into paying a higher price on a car then he should have.

OldmanMondeo

Psygnosis wrote: »

I have it taxed as I private car from when I purchased it, I kept an eye online on the motortax webpage to see if the owner had changed and when it did. I taxed it as a private car. Thinking about it now it took ages for the car to be changed name.

I have nothing to clarify the mileage of when I bought it, I have all my service docs and NCT docs from when I bought it.
There was no wear on the foot pedals gear stick or seat when I bought it. Still none now.

Even if it is classed as a PSV for 1 hour, it stays on record. Might never had a plate or passenger in it, still a PSV.

Hitchens

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

basically the OP may have been "scammed" into paying a higher price on a car then he should have.

what, dodgy dealings in the Irish used car trade? ...............never! :eek:

Psygnosis

So, Im screwed. Sick of cow boy car dealers in this country I bought it in good faith only to find out its been taxed as a taxi.
I must have a look at the documents for the previous owner and google him to see if he owns a chauffeur business.
Now the car is not practical for me anymore as I need something that will fit 3 baby seats in the back.
If I was to sell it privately how would I even broach the subject. I dont want some unknown punter to buy it without knowing the history of it. Like what happened with me. Would Merlin Car auctions be a good way too go or one of those cash for cars jobbers.


I'm looking to change the car to something like picasso or Honda FRV.
I wont have much to spend now. This kind of thing makes me sick.

OldmanMondeo

Check what documents you have from the sale, if it is / was a simi garage, it might be on the receipt about the previous tax class. If it says private, you have them over a barrel.

Hitchens

Psygnosis wrote: »

This kind of thing makes me sick.

No point in blaming yourself, you did nothing wrong. You're not the first and you won't be the last.

MidlandsM

who was the dealers? Was it <snip>

you have recourse here, I'd go the legal avenue to be honest......they've sold you a pig in a poke.

Old diesel

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

The problem is more that a Taxi is worth less than a private car. OP might have paid the private retail price on the car and not the PSV price, I think it is around 25% lower (open to correction here). OP will also get less on the trade in for the newer car, basically the OP may have been "scammed" into paying a higher price on a car then he should have.

Yeah I picked him up wrong with his original post - I thought that "the car was taxed as a taxi" referred to its current taxation status.

As you rightly say - the big issue is that from a dealers viewpoint - the car was taxed as a taxi - so may have been one in the past.

Right pain in the rear end for the OP.

I suppose the lesson is - with a very low mileage diesel car - try and verify the history as best you can before deciding to purchase .

Psygnosis

I've had a look in the car and the garage is not a SIMI garage.
I cant find the VRT Document I'm actually applying for a new one as I cant find never got the one with the car:mad:

As a guess what do you think I could get for it.

MidlandsM

OP, don't panic.......a friend of mine bought a 7 seater that was a limo, did top end work picking up the well healed and took them to a hotel resort.......it did'nt do "street work" .....and the vehicle was and is perfect........it made no difference in price whatsoever when he sold it on.....

MidlandsM

OSI wrote: »

How so?

because they should have disclosed same.......I had an ex-taxi in stock once, and sold it with a full disclosure that it had been a taxi......it was the right and legal thing to do.

MidlandsM

OSI wrote: »

Why? There's no longer requirement for them to tell you the full history of the car unless you ask them for it. Unless they out right lied to the op, and the op can prove it, he has no recourse whatsoever.

wrong,
if this went to court (I know I've been to many car cases), the dealer would lose the case.....no issue....you have to be upfront in these sales.

Psygnosis

To be honest I don't want to go down any legal route. I just wouldn't have the time or energy for it. I just want to change the car and move on.

I know now why I have 2 little holes on my dashboard I was told it was a for a phone holder. I can gather now what it was used for.
I've spent good money looking after this car from I got it.
I had to bring it to a Ford garage at one stage to get my central locking fixed and that service alone cost 1000 quid for all the bits and bobs that where done.


I'll post some pictures of the car tomorrow when its brighter so you can take a look.

Psygnosis

Ok found the VRT Cert and when I bought the car it just says untaxed with a bill of 66 euros or something alongs those lines..

mickdw

Id be more worried about the mileage being doctored at this stage. If you have history to show the mileage and it's not done taxi mileage, well it's possible it didn't work as taxi day to day.
If your mileage is correct and can reasonably be shown to be that way, and your car is in the good condition you say, you might well get a good price for it.

Psygnosis

mickdw wrote: »

Id be more worried about the mileage being doctored at this stage. If you have history to show the mileage and it's not done taxi mileage, well it's possible it didn't work as taxi day to day.
If your mileage is correct and can reasonably be shown to be that way, and your car is in the good condition you say, you might well get a good price for it.

Hi Mickdw
I need to get my NCT done this week/month and then I'm getting it machined polished to clean up little swirl marks on it.
If I bring it do a garage as a trade in Ill tell the owner/dealer. If I sell it donedeal or carzone privately how would you suggest I word this.

What do you think I could reasonably expect for it I have all my service docs from when I bought it from a local mechanic who is excellent.

MuppetCheck

As Midlands says it might be worth speaking to a solicitor. You may not have been sold a pup if it was basically someone's company car but if you're going to lose out selling you need to get that put right.

Psygnosis

Really dont want to go down the legal route, if I can help it. Would be a nightmare. I have allot of commitments at the moment between work and family and just wouldnt have the time for it

MuppetCheck

Even the threat of it might help things along.

Shane Fitz

Psygnosis wrote: »

Really dont want to go down the legal route, if I can help it. Would be a nightmare. I have allot of commitments at the moment between work and family and just wouldnt have the time for it

If you could show/prove that the 80k kilometres that were on it when you bought it in 09/10?? were legit ie not clocked, and you have your docs/receipts for services done during your ownership then whether it was USED as a taxi becomes kinda moot?

Psygnosis

Shane Fitz wrote: »

If you could show/prove that the 80k kilometres that were on it when you bought it in 09/10?? were legit ie not clocked, and you have your docs/receipts for services done during your ownership then whether it was USED as a taxi becomes kinda moot?

Hi Shane the only proof I have is when I bought it I got my mechanic to service it, I can show the KM's then where 77Km as he serviced and its on his servicing docs.
Other than that I cant prove diddly as it wouldn't of had a nct back then.

unkel

Psygnosis wrote: »

What I'm wondering now is will any garage let me trade it in.

Of course they will. That place was just trying to give you less money for it and they used the history check as a bargaining chip. As long as you have a full history of the car and it wasn't clocked while it was a taxi, I wouldn't worry about it. Go to another garage to trade it in!

Psygnosis wrote: »

Or if I sell it privately how would I go about explaining the tax situation.

Up to the buyer to do their homework. If they ask was it a taxi, you will have to tell them. Otherwise you don't

Psygnosis

unkel wrote: »

Of course they will. That place was just trying to give you less money for it and they used the history check as a bargaining chip. As long as you have a full history of the car and it wasn't clocked while it was a taxi, I wouldn't worry about it. Go to another garage to trade it in!



Up to the buyer to do their homework. If they ask was it a taxi, you will have to tell them. Otherwise you don't

Last thing I want though is a brick through my window

_Kaiser_

unkel wrote: »

Up to the buyer to do their homework. If they ask was it a taxi, you will have to tell them. Otherwise you don't

Slightly O/T..

I know it's buyer beware and all that, but this is the problem with the used car market in general IMO - it's all about what you can potentially "get away with" as a less scrupulous dealer or individual to drive up the price.

The OP here should have been told when he bought the car that it was previously a taxi. In my mind he has an equal obligation to tell the next buyer as well (regardless of whether they've done their homework) or his current (and completely justifiable) frustration and anger here will be undone by virtue of the fact that he'll be as "bad" as the guy that sold him the car.

A private seller may not have to offer a warranty but they should at least be honest - is that not what is praised/sought after in every other "today I looked at a car/what you think of this" style thread? Are we not as bad as that dealer if we suggest the OP say nothing to the next innocent punter that looks at the car.

(Back O/T)

Anyway OP, if the car has a full history since you bought it, is in good mechanical order with valid NCT (useless though that is but many buyers find it reassuring) then I'm sure you'll sell it on easy enough without having too take too much of a hit.

Your other option is the legal one mentioned above, but you don't really want to go down that route so you may just have to chalk this up to experience, get what you can for it, and move on

jayok

Just a thought to verify the mileage - doesn't a taxi need a DOE or NCT every year regardless of age??

Is it possible Cartell is wrong? (Wouldn't be the first time)

BMJD

Just trade it in elsewhere, I wouldn't worry too much about it tbh. Decide yourself what your bottom line is for the trade-in/cost of changing and stick with that. Some dealers will try and convince you that your car is in bits and isn't worth anything, others will give you a fair and honest price based on the condition of it.

unkel

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

A private seller may not have to offer a warranty but they should at least be honest

Good point, Kaiser and I'm like that myself. I would be afraid of karma hitting me back if I was dishonest

I tend to buy privately too, usually equipped with more knowledge about the car than the seller, so any dishonest answers to my questions would send me walking away

Del2005

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Slightly O/T..

I know it's buyer beware and all that, but this is the problem with the used car market in general IMO - it's all about what you can potentially "get away with" as a less scrupulous dealer or individual to drive up the price.

The OP here should have been told when he bought the car that it was previously a taxi. In my mind he has an equal obligation to tell the next buyer as well (regardless of whether they've done their homework) or his current (and completely justifiable) frustration and anger here will be undone by virtue of the fact that he'll be as "bad" as the guy that sold him the car.

A private seller may not have to offer a warranty but they should at least be honest - is that not what is praised/sought after in every other "today I looked at a car/what you think of this" style thread? Are we not as bad as that dealer if we suggest the OP say nothing to the next innocent punter that looks at the car.

(Back O/T)

Anyway OP, if the car has a full history since you bought it, is in good mechanical order with valid NCT (useless though that is but many buyers find it reassuring) then I'm sure you'll sell it on easy enough without having too take too much of a hit.

Your other option is the legal one mentioned above, but you don't really want to go down that route so you may just have to chalk this up to experience, get what you can for it, and move on

How do we know that the garage the OP bought off knew it was a taxi? The OP bought it 3 or 4 years ago and the history check sites weren't as accessible then as they are now. If the person trading in didn't tell the garage they can't tell a potential buyer.

How can the OP go legal? They bought the car years ago and it's not given any trouble. The aren't going to get any money off the garage at this stage, if they'd found out within a year or so they've have a chance of some money back but not after this long. The difference between the price of a ex-taxi and a private car could be similar to the difference between someone who can haggle hard v's a timid buyer who pays the asking price, should the person who doesn't haggle as hard get money back because someone else is better at haggling than them?

Since they deregulated the market taxis aren't being driven 24/7 any more so low mileage taxis won't be uncommon these days.

Jesus.

I bought a car recently and only had it a couple of hours before I realized it was a Taxi. The thing for mounting the meter was still screwed in, a rooftop aerial was in the boot and the dealer didn't even bother taking off a taxi regulator sticker off the dash! I would have noticed these things had I given it a quick once over but I needed a very quick sale. When I went to tax her, the guy had to take the Logbook and post me out a new one as it was now being taxed as a private vehicle.

Doesn't bother me a'tall because as long as she's running well I don't care what it was used for in the past. I only spent 1,500 plus 450 trade-in so no big deal really. Perhaps if I had've bought a more expensive car though I might have felt a bit different!

MidlandsM

Jesus, you need to get yourself down to specsavers.............

unkel wrote: »

Up to the buyer to do their homework. If they ask was it a taxi, you will have to tell them. Otherwise you don't

unkel wrote: »

Good point, Kaiser and I'm like that myself. I would be afraid of karma hitting me back if I was dishonest

I tend to buy privately too, usually equipped with more knowledge about the car than the seller, so any dishonest answers to my questions would send me walking away

We've got to laugh at the double standards here.......first of all Unkel advocates to withhold info (that should really be disclosed)

.......and then is fearfull of karma...:rolleyes: ..........and dishonesty from seller........


.........thanks for the laugh unkel.........

ameee

Op i would stay well away from those cash for car places, i bought a seven seater this week and traded my old car in and got 600 off the price of the new one but the cash for cars place only offered me 150 for it.

unkel

MidlandsM wrote: »

We've got to laugh at the double standards here.......

Not so much double standards, more about what's relevant to the sale

Would you volunteer to tell the buyer if you ever hit a speed bump a little bit too hard? If you were ever speeding, or ever went round a roundabout with a bit of wheel spin? I wouldn't.

Would I tell the buyer that my 6 year old unclocked Mondeo worth €2k - €3k was ever a taxi (making it worth about €10 less)? No I probably wouldn't.

If the buyer asked me any of those questions, or any questions at all, I would honestly answer them.

Would I tell the buyer if I know about something wrong with the car that he didn't notice himself? Yes I would.

MidlandsM

unkel wrote: »

Not so much double standards, more about what's relevant to the sale

total double standards.............not even scenarios on the same scale...says a lot about you as a car seller, one to be avoided

Guy:Incognito

Hitchens wrote: »

No point in blaming yourself, you did nothing wrong. You're not the first and you won't be the last.

While the op didnt do anything wrong in the sense of doing something bad, they made the mistake of not doing the history check before they bought it. A solid lesson everyone can stand to learn.

gallag

Will it make much difference on a 07 mondeo?

Psygnosis

gallag wrote: »

Will it make much difference on a 07 mondeo?

Well I've mailed a couple of garages 1 has said no trade in others haven't got back unkle if you have any corolla versos for sale and fancy a trade in let me know

_Kaiser_

unkel wrote: »

Not so much double standards, more about what's relevant to the sale

Would I tell the buyer if I know about something wrong with the car that he didn't notice himself? Yes I would.

MidlandsM wrote: »

total double standards.............not even scenarios on the same scale...says a lot about you as a car seller, one to be avoided

What have I started?

I have to say though I'd be with MidlandsM on this myself. Not everyone is a car enthusiast and most just want to buy something that will give them as little hassle as possible. Not everyone is a mechanic or has ready access to one to bring with them (I certainly wouldn't for example).

In this scenario, the car previously having been a taxi is a significant issue - tax implications, wear and tear, mileage etc - and I would consider it an honest seller's obligation to be upfront with that information.. regardless of whether the buyer asked.

In fact Unkel you admit you'd tell the buyer about anything you knew to be wrong about the car upfront (which is to be commended), but in this context being an ex-taxi would fall under that description IMO, or certainly "off" enough to be mentioned.

I don't know if I would go so far as to say you should be "avoided" (for all I know I may yet buy a car from you someday ) but I do agree with MidlandsM that this case is a bit different - although to be honest it'd be a lot easier if buying a used car privately/from a small dealer wasn't such a game of russian roulette.. as I mentioned before, it's probably why I wouldn't take the risk myself unless a VERY cheap car (bangernomics stuff here).

Certainly I wouldn't risk it on anything like my A6. I'd rather take the hit on the price but at least have the peace of mind that if I didn't spot something on the day, or something serious happens shortly thereafter I'd have some comeback (as I did with the first A6 I bought and which - to his credit - the dealer actually DID stand over and make good on by undoing the deal in full and putting me back in the position I was beforehand).

bazz26

Forget about emails for this sort of thing as it gives a dealer the impression you are just trying to offload a knackered POS before they have even seen it. Better off going into a dealer and let them appraise the car's condition first and then mention that it was taxed as a PSV before you owned it.

Chances are though that you will probably do better by selling it properly and being up front with any potential buyer once they have viewed and test drove it. If you tell someone negative points about a car before they have seen it then they will already form a bad opinion. Whereas if they view/drive the car and like it then informing them that it was a PSV before might not as off putting. Unfortunately a car that was a former PSV will have a lower resale value due to the general perception.

MidlandsM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

What have I started?

I have to say though I'd be with MidlandsM on this myself. Not everyone is a car enthusiast and most just want to buy something that will give them as little hassle as possible. Not everyone is a mechanic or has ready access to one to bring with them (I certainly wouldn't for example).

In this scenario, the car previously having been a taxi is a significant issue - tax implications, wear and tear, mileage etc - and I would consider it an honest seller's obligation to be upfront with that information.. regardless of whether the buyer asked.

In fact Unkel you admit you'd tell the buyer about anything you knew to be wrong about the car upfront (which is to be commended), but in this context being an ex-taxi would fall under that description IMO, or certainly "off" enough to be mentioned.

I don't know if I would go so far as to say you should be "avoided" (for all I know I may yet buy a car from you someday ) but I do agree with MidlandsM that this case is a bit different - although to be honest it'd be a lot easier if buying a used car privately/from a small dealer wasn't such a game of russian roulette.. as I mentioned before, it's probably why I wouldn't take the risk myself unless a VERY cheap car (bangernomics stuff here).

Certainly I wouldn't risk it on anything like my A6. I'd rather take the hit on the price but at least have the peace of mind that if I didn't spot something on the day, or something serious happens shortly thereafter I'd have some comeback (as I did with the first A6 I bought and which - to his credit - the dealer actually DID stand over and make good on by undoing the deal in full and putting me back in the position I was beforehand).

thanks and agreed, Unkel - you are so wrong on this, its silly and it makes you look silly, even sillier than you are! :pac:

unkel

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

the car previously having been a taxi is a significant issue - tax implications, wear and tear, mileage etc

When you put it like that, I'd have to agree!

I did clearly say though an unclocked vehicle. And I presumed wear and tear was the same as a non-taxi with the same mileage. And obviously the car is taxed privately now as OP stated

But to make myself crystal clear: if the fact that it was a taxi had any impact on the person buying the car, I would tell them.

MidlandsM

unkel wrote: »

But to make myself crystal clear: if the fact that it was a taxi had any impact on the person buying the car, I would tell them.

that's not what you implied earlier..........

Psygnosis

bazz26 wrote: »

Forget about emails for this sort of thing as it gives a dealer the impression you are just trying to offload a knackered POS before they have even seen it. Better off going into a dealer and let them appraise the car's condition first and then mention that it was taxed as a PSV before you owned it.

Chances are though that you will probably do better by selling it properly and being up front with any potential buyer once they have viewed and test drove it. If you tell someone negative points about a car before they have seen it then they will already form a bad opinion. Whereas if they view/drive the car and like it then informing them that it was a PSV before might not as off putting. Unfortunately a car that was a former PSV will have a lower resale value due to the general perception.

Cheers for that Bazz,
If I sell it on donedeal or carsireland should I state that this car was taxed as a taxi. Or omit it and only tell the person when they arrive to view it. I could end up wasting some ones time doing it this way.

What would be reasonable to ask for a Mondeo MK3 07 130KMs 2 year NCT TDCI 115bhp Platinum Spec
Cruise Control
Climate Control
Steering wheel controls
CD player/radio
No mechanical problems with the car
Service history since 77kms on the car
But taxed as Taxi for 2 years. Guessing this as I bought in when it was 2 years old.

Jesus.

gallag wrote: »

Will it make much difference on a 07 mondeo?

Personally I think the OP has gone a little bit OTT. Okay the seller should have told him it was used as a taxi but he got 4 unblemished years service out of the car so, you know, this isn't really that big a deal IMO.

Psygnosis

Jesus. wrote: »

Personally I think the OP has gone a little bit OTT. Okay the seller should have told him it was used as a taxi but he got 4 unblemished years service out of the car so, you know, this isn't really that big a deal IMO.

But if I can't trade it in surely that's an issue also the reduced price I'd get

colm_mcm

What would annoy me would be that they were able to tell you straight off the story about the chauffeur.

mickdw

I do alittle research on the service history before you bought it just to see if its possibly clocked. You could ring the supplying ford dealer or other dealers in that area to see if they have any records on servicing / repairing it within its first 2 years. Its quite likely that a car would be back for some warranty item within 2 years. Mileage would then be recorded.