Waterford Castle Liquidation

tombliboo83

Just heard on today fm that the castle is to be put into liquidation with a reciever to be appointed..bad news indeed. Can't find a link..

decies

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/waterford-castle-can-continue-to-trade-after-provisional-liquidator-appointed-29433589.html

joni1

Was surprised to read there are 80 people employed there, wouldn't have thought it

tombliboo83

It will be a huge psychological blow to Waterford should the castle be finished

xFROSTY Gx

joni1 wrote: »

Was surprised to read there are 80 people employed there, wouldn't have thought it

Have to take into consideration all the different areas. Clubhouse staff, hotel staff, greenkeepers, ferrymen, managers/back of house and housekeeping for the lodges!

It was a long time coming to be honest but I feel it wont be let fail as its location (an island) is so different compared to any other hotel/resort in the same financial position.

Hopefully a buyer will be found soon enough

Motivator

Out of 47 houses built on the island oy 2 were sold, there's about 30 million owed on the houses alone. Crazy stuff altogether, it won't close though as the property won't be of any use if it does close. Another huge blow to the city all the same.

ziedth

I would be amazed if a buyer didn't come in fairly sharpish. It's a serious bit of land and a rework of the pricing and I'm sure it could work out pretty we'll.

I went for the 1 night B&B with a dinner for a family do a few months ago and while I enjoyed the night and the food was nice it wasn't worth anywhere near the money we paid on the night which was probably the bones of €500 between everything(for two).

Addictedtogolf

Motivator wrote: »

Out of 47 houses built on the island oy 2 were sold, there's about 30 million owed on the houses alone. Crazy stuff altogether, it won't close though as the property won't be of any use if it does close. Another huge blow to the city all the same.

Do you mind me asking how you know that only 2 of the houses were sold?

Motivator

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how you know that only 2 of the houses were sold?

I'm a member of Waterford Castle.

gscully

I heard Marks & Spencer are going in there...

wellboytoo

gscully wrote: »

I heard Marks & Spencer are going in there...

Cracker.

Finnbar01

wellboytoo wrote: »

Cracker.

Don't be such a racist!

7upfree

gscully wrote: »

I heard Marks & Spencer are going in there...

Kinda sad to see that jokes can be cracked about 80 people losing their jobs.

JPA

7upfree wrote: »

Kinda sad to see that jokes can be cracked about 80 people losing their jobs.

It's not closing down.

ToxicPaddy

I've heard from a few people, but this is just hearsay, that the hotel and golf club are actually doing ok in the current economy, covering their cost etc but the houses were what dragged eveything down. They never sold, were over priced to start with and the money they borrowed was staggering when you see what the end result was.

Suppose it just takes one bad decision to bring the whole lot down. Such a shame because its a fantastic venue and decent golf course. If someone who has a few quid behind them came in and built it up again from scratch, they would do well as its always been popular with weddings and the golf club always had a decent membership.

thomasm

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

I've heard from a few people, but this is just hearsay, that the hotel and golf club are actually doing ok in the current economy, covering their cost etc but the houses were what dragged eveything down. They never sold, were over priced to start with and the money they borrowed was staggering when you see what the end result was.

Suppose it just takes one bad decision to bring the whole lot down. Such a shame because its a fantastic venue and decent golf course. If someone who has a few quid behind them came in and built it up again from scratch, they would do well as its always been popular with weddings and the golf club always had a decent membership.

Thats my understanding too. Course and hotel doing well but owner keeps stripping out profits to pay other debts.

Finnbar01

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

I've heard from a few people, but this is just hearsay, that the hotel and golf club are actually doing ok in the current economy, covering their cost etc but the houses were what dragged eveything down. They never sold, were over priced to start with and the money they borrowed was staggering when you see what the end result was.

Suppose it just takes one bad decision to bring the whole lot down. Such a shame because its a fantastic venue and decent golf course. If someone who has a few quid behind them came in and built it up again from scratch, they would do well as its always been popular with weddings and the golf club always had a decent membership.

When did they start building the houses down there?

blue note

Sad to see this. It was my favourite course in the county until Tramore made their improvements.

I just hope now though that they don't start behaving like a typical NAMA course and start undercutting the others. Other courses need to price themselves to make money. NAMA courses just need to lose less money operating then they would not operating to justify keeping them open.

If it closed it could help other clubs in the area with others picking up their members and green fees. And Waterford might have too many golf clubs already to be fair.

All that said, I'd hate to see 80 people lose their jobs and I'd hate to see that course close.

gscully

7upfree wrote: »

Kinda sad to see that jokes can be cracked about 80 people losing their jobs.

Bore off! Where did I joke about 80 people losing their jobs? It's sadder that you choose to invent scandal in order to take the moral high-ground.

Gardner

i know personally one interested party in buying the castle and has made it known that if he is successful he will be closing down the golf course and buying out the other owners of the houses. interesting times ahead!

decies

That doesn't sound very interesting to be honest !! That kind of statement doesn't help anybody .

Padraig Mor

Motivator wrote: »

Out of 47 houses built on the island oy 2 were sold, .

But is that 2 sold 'privately' (bought outright), or 2 sold altogther, including section 23 (for rental, which is how they were being marketed). The first may not be too surprising; the second :eek:

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

the houses were what dragged eveything down. They never sold, were over priced to start with and the money they borrowed was staggering when you see what the end result was.
.

I think they're fantastic. I'm not from Waterford, but we've (family) stayed there several times over the last few years (last visit only a few weeks ago). I really think they are the pick of self catering houses in Ireland - the finish is exceptional and the grounds are lovely. Add the lack of traffic and the little playground and it's ideal for families. And at €300 per week, an absolute steal - although I suspect that may be part of the problem! Everyone we met this year was on vouchers or similar. We have noted though that as, e.g., appliances, furniture etc got broken, they were being replaced with much cheaper ones. Also was wondering on our last visit why they had installed prepay electricity meters in the houses - now we know!

Addictedtogolf

Gardner wrote: »

i know personally one interested party in buying the castle and has made it known that if he is successful he will be closing down the golf course and buying out the other owners of the houses. interesting times ahead!

Must be one wealthy guy to buy the island, hotel, golf course and all the houses. Must be worth 20million+

hardybuck

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

Must be one wealthy guy to buy the island, hotel, golf course and all the houses. Must be worth 20million+

Or with good access to credit.

Deise Vu

Gardner wrote: »

i know personally one interested party in buying the castle and has made it known that if he is successful he will be closing down the golf course and buying out the other owners of the houses. interesting times ahead!

I would be very interested to hear this man's plan. The biggest problem to be faced by any new owner is the Ferry. The ferry has to be avaible 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week for emergency access. This costs serious bucks. As things stand I would say the golf club members fees pay for the ferry operation. If you add the cost of the ferry onto room / chalet rental who is going to take that up, and why aren't they flocking there now?

Because of the ferry it will be impossible to sell in anything other than one job lot. The golf course wants the ferry going back and forth all day during daylight hours, the hotel / chalet need it less but at more flexible times. How could two or three buyers agree on an equitable split not to mention trust each other to survive these troubled times. Not to mention maintenance of roads etc.

For anyone with a couple of million to spare this will be the bargain of the Allsop era. I really seriously hope it is bought by a serious player who develops it to its full potential. It would be a huge draw for the City with the right promotion and investment.

0rt

if it goes under... we should take it...
Imagine that, every kids dream is to have a castle on an island!
get the viking re-enactors to move in!

Addictedtogolf

"For anyone with a couple of million to spare this will be the bargain of the Allsop era. I really seriously hope it is bought by a serious player who develops it to its full potential. It would be a huge draw for the City with the right promotion and investment. "

I don't think a couple of million would go very far. I think 10-15million. If the houses alone were 100k that 5million

Deise Vu

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

"For anyone with a couple of million to spare this will be the bargain of the Allsop era. I really seriously hope it is bought by a serious player who develops it to its full potential. It would be a huge draw for the City with the right promotion and investment. "

I don't think a couple of million would go very far. I think 10-15million. If the houses alone were 100k that 5million

Would you seriously buy a house that requires a private ferry to gain access? Individual sales are complete non-runners and, as I posted earlier, some form of cost-sharing arrangement is not feasible because buyers would have to buy first, then negotiate an arrangement for the ferry.

When the weddings stop and green fees become scarce with the shorter days / foul weather, there won't be the money to run the ferry, let alone staff the golf course and hotel. As this will immediately escalate the costs of security and maintenance to ridiculous levels there will be a quick sale at a knock down price. (Don't forget the receivers / liquidators fees are rapidly mounting too.

The alternative is to maintain the course and castle until the new golf subs are due in January. The problem with that is members may not be too keen to hand over €1K for membership of a teetering golf club and, secondly, potential buyers will not want to be losing out on the fee income. NAMA will want rid of this asap.

Motivator

The ferry costs are astronomical. €4,000 a week which is over €200k a year.

jayboi

What about some sort of draw-bridge dropped down for traffic you could still keep the exclusivity, allow boats to pass and would be cheaper to run in the long term then the ferry

Deise Vu

Motivator wrote: »

The ferry costs are astronomical. €4,000 a week which is over €200k a year.

I have heard several figures bandied about and it is safe to say €200k is only a fraction of most of them. There are something like 7 employees required as it has to be available for 24/7. I don't know what qualifications, if any, are required as the ferry is on chains but it must be better than minimum wage.

Add in licencing, maintenance, diesel, insurance and capital costs and the figure goes through the roof. Certainly not feasible for, say, a management company for the house owners to run (if they were sold individually). The Island was closed for four days earlier this year for the ferry annual maintenance alone. I arrived one Friday morning this year to see traffic backed up the slipway just as a marine engineer, who must have been on speed dial, arrived. Just picture what he charges for that service.

GUEVARA50

Deise Vu wrote: »

I have heard several figures bandied about and it is safe to say €200k is only a fraction of most of them. There are something like 7 employees required as it has to be available for 24/7. I don't know what qualifications, if any, are required as the ferry is on chains but it must be better than minimum wage.

Add in licencing, maintenance, diesel, insurance and capital costs and the figure goes through the roof. Certainly not feasible for, say, a management company for the house owners to run (if they were sold individually). The Island was closed for four days earlier this year for the ferry annual maintenance alone. I arrived one Friday morning this year to see traffic backed up the slipway just as a marine engineer, who must have been on speed dial, arrived. Just picture what he charges for that service.

I was advised about 2 years ago it costs 280k to run that ferry per annum.

A fixed bridge was tried for in the initial planing process discussions when they went in for the houses and the Hotel enlargement but planners refused it along with local boat clubs, plus a construction cost of €3,5 million minimum and still would have maintenance and fixed costs per annum. ( still that would have been only a 10% net cost of the house sales overall so well worth it as it would have allowed them to sell privately)

Who was the idiot that thought a fire certificate would not be needed on those houses on an island before they thought to build them. What bank in the country would loan a mortgage with no Fire cert??? a 30 Million Euro mistake !

Elliotlumb

Hi all. I have just found and joined this site. I am slightly worried to say the least as I have my wedding booked for a full weekend at the castle next May. I took a call from the wedding planner on Saturday to assure me my deposit ( of several thousand pounds) is safe. Me and my fiancé have spent the best part of 2 years trying to find the perfect venue, we exhausted everything England had to offer and started to look in Ireland. Waterford castle was recommended to us and we fell in love with it. It would be a great shame not only for us but for the many other people who must be in the same position as us. We booked the entire castle and 10 lodges for 2 nights and if we can't have the ceremony there I will be mortified.

Having read the posts on here, I agree that it will have to be sold as one lot, and as we all know in the current climate finding a creditable buyer will be very difficult

GUEVARA50

Elliotlumb wrote: »

Hi all. I have just found and joined this site. I am slightly worried to say the least as I have my wedding booked for a full weekend at the castle next May. I took a call from the wedding planner on Saturday to assure me my deposit ( of several thousand pounds) is safe. Me and my fiancé have spent the best part of 2 years trying to find the perfect venue, we exhausted everything England had to offer and started to look in Ireland. Waterford castle was recommended to us and we fell in love with it. It would be a great shame not only for us but for the many other people who must be in the same position as us. We booked the entire castle and 10 lodges for 2 nights and if we can't have the ceremony there I will be mortified.

Having read the posts on here, I agree that it will have to be sold as one lot, and as we all know in the current climate finding a creditable buyer will be very difficult

NEXT MAY !!!????

I would be asking for a refund NOW. Your fully entitled to with no risk of losing your deposit due to the liquidation process. Id rather be safe then crying the day before!

Addictedtogolf

I organise high level golf events and have a lot of connections in India, China, Hong Kong and Asia in general.
With the right supports from those now in charge this could easily be turned into a very exclusive Private members golf club.
Currently golfers in Hong Kong and Mission Hills in China are paying €200,000+ up to a million to join a golf club.

100 Worldwide members at €200k is 20million.
Give them all a 1% share in the company (Who would not want to own a piece of an Irish castle for 200k?) and then with this investment sell the houses to private owners. 250k x 50 is 10 million.

12-20 to buy and upgrade the golf course & hotel and 10 in the bank to maintain.
Current members would remain members and could also do limited green fees to generate revenue. Could also still run the hotel but upgrade a little.

You would have no problem getting 10k a year subs from these wealthy members and can also sell corporate memberships.
I met 10 Chinese guys at the Open championship last week that spent 100k each to go to the golf via private jet and live it up for a week.

Would only cost about 100-150k to put this all together and exhibit at some major golf shows in China, Asia and some advertising in key golf magazines and the Wall street journal in the US.

Just takes a little vision but in Ireland that is very rare...!!!

TheGormog

I got talking to a scottish chap over a few smokes outside the Wander last Thursday.

He told me that he is a freelance surveyor working for a German architectural firm. Something GMBH something.

Anyway after a few pints of Coors Light (iced tap) he told me that there's a major public-private partnership development under heavy consideration.

After a small few glasses of Bushmills he asked me - 'listen ned, what is the one piece of civil infrastructure that the south east of Ireland doesn't have? A prison!'.

Apparently a prison fit to house upwards of 1,200 people is being proposed for the island. Funded by EU grants and German finance, the government will pay an annual fee to investors over a period of 40 years. A mix of an open prison based on existing housing stock and a purpose built compound for a higher risk inmates.

GUEVARA50

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

I organise high level golf events and have a lot of connections in India, China, Hong Kong and Asia in general.
With the right supports from those now in charge this could easily be turned into a very exclusive Private members golf club.
Currently golfers in Hong Kong and Mission Hills in China are paying €200,000+ up to a million to join a golf club.

100 Worldwide members at €200k is 20million.
Give them all a 1% share in the company (Who would not want to own a piece of an Irish castle for 200k?) and then with this investment sell the houses to private owners. 250k x 50 is 10 million.

12-20 to buy and upgrade the golf course & hotel and 10 in the bank to maintain.
Current members would remain members and could also do limited green fees to generate revenue. Could also still run the hotel but upgrade a little.

You would have no problem getting 10k a year subs from these wealthy members and can also sell corporate memberships.

Would only cost about 100-150k to put this all together and exhibit at some major golf shows in China, Asia and some advertising in key golf magazines and the Wall street journal in the US.

Just takes a little vision but in Ireland that is very rare...!!!

One little little Problem in your proposal ,,,, its "Waaaaaaaaaterford",, not the place where these big balls would hang out and play !!!

GUEVARA50

TheGormog wrote: »

I got talking to a scottish chap over a few smokes outside the Wander last Thursday.

He told me that he is a freelance surveyor working for a German architectural firm. Something GMBH something.

Anyway after a few pints of Coors Light (iced tap) he told me that there's a major public-private partnership development under heavy consideration.

After a small few glasses of Bushmills he asked me - 'listen ned, what is the one piece of civil infrastructure that the south east of Ireland doesn't have? A prison!'.

Apparently a prison fit to house upwards of 1,200 people is being proposed for the island. Funded by EU grants and German finance, the government will pay an annual fee to investors over a period of 40 years. A mix of an open prison based on existing housing stock and a purpose built compound for a higher risk inmates.

Jaysus ,, that would be great ,,, instant diminished value of all the houses in the lane, powercourt and Kings channel to ZERO !!!

Id love the thought of buying a house down there and the prospect of drug dealers, Dublin hoods and rapists etc coming over me garden wall after doing an Alcatraz escape !!!

Id sure leave the kids in the back garden roaming free !!!! It would be Berettas and infra red cameras 24/7 out the back window!

Addictedtogolf

GUEVARA50 wrote: »

One little little Problem in your proposal ,,,, its "Waaaaaaaaaterford",, not the place where these big balls would hang out and play !!!

Very wrong. If the course was seriously upgraded and marketed right 200k is nothing to these people. If they visited once a year it would be a lot but its more for status that that "own a piece of an Island in Ireland with a Castle and a golf course". We have an airport that's only 20min away that can take private jets from London.

These people don't join to play every week or month. Its just something exclusive to own that there friends don't have. Limit it to 100 and you would sell out in 6months or less guaranteed. Rory or G-Mac to do an opening Pro-Am and they would bring there golfing friends. Members stay in the Castle or Mount Juliet and I guarantee you they would love it.

200k is the price of a watch in China or Hong Kong.

GUEVARA50

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

Very wrong. If the course was seriously upgraded and marketed right 200k is nothing to these people. If they visited once a year it would be a lot but its more for status that that "own a piece of an Island in Ireland with a Castle and a golf course". We have an airport that's only 20min away that can take private jets from London.

These people don't join to play every week or month. Its just something exclusive to own that there friends don't have. Limit it to 100 and you would sell out in 6months or less guaranteed. Rory or G-Mac to do an opening Pro-Am and they would bring there golfing friends. Members stay in the Castle or Mount Juliet and I guarantee you they would love it.

200k is the price of a watch in China or Hong Kong.

id prefer the prison idea !!!
better class of criminals !

Addictedtogolf

GUEVARA50 wrote: »

id prefer the prison idea !!!
better class of criminals !

Why does that not surprise me from an Irish person...!!! (If you are Irish)
Serious way out of a mess and turn the place into something amazing like it was when it first opened.

GUEVARA50

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

Why does that not surprise me from an Irish person...!!! (If you are Irish)
Serious way out of a mess and turn the place into something amazing like it was when it first opened.

Oh be jaysus Im Irish,, i have the thick Irish head to go with it!!

Sure, turn it into a millionaires playground and us common people can watch from behind the wall, (river) at all the "200k " Rolex watch wearing Boyz talking about their assets , private jets, gangs n paid women etc etc.

They may leave a few of us common local people over to serve/work for them, serving caviar and champagne while they plot another third world exploitation. Id rather vomit inside out.

just a different class of overlord to the previous ones from UK we had in generations gone by.

I'd MAKE it Public for all to enjoy ,, not some private lickhole island where your like can rub shoulders with them and be ingratiated with their superior human abilities. Christ almighty!!!

Go for it Mr Brown tongue!!!

bradolf pittler

So not only do criminals in jail have luxuries like sky sports and the like....they would now have their own private golf course???????
This countries going to hell.
HELL I TELLS YA!!!!!!!!
:P

bryangiggsy

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

Why does that not surprise me from an Irish person...!!! (If you are Irish)
Serious way out of a mess and turn the place into something amazing like it was when it first opened.

Are you for real ? I take it you dont work in marketing or sales .... 200 members 200k ... Once a yr... In waterford.... Pass the pipe.

bryangiggsy

TheGormog wrote: »

I got talking to a scottish chap over a few smokes outside the Wander last Thursday.

He told me that he is a freelance surveyor working for a German architectural firm. Something GMBH something.

Anyway after a few pints of Coors Light (iced tap) he told me that there's a major public-private partnership development under heavy consideration.

After a small few glasses of Bushmills he asked me - 'listen ned, what is the one piece of civil infrastructure that the south east of Ireland doesn't have? A prison!'.

Apparently a prison fit to house upwards of 1,200 people is being proposed for the island. Funded by EU grants and German finance, the government will pay an annual fee to investors over a period of 40 years. A mix of an open prison based on existing housing stock and a purpose built compound for a higher risk inmates.

I heard they are going to reopen Mosney as a holiday camp and open up Waterford castle as an immigration center ! Plenty of houses plenty of room free golf.

GUEVARA50

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Are you for real ? I take it you dont work in marketing or sales .... 200 members 200k ... Once a yr... In waterford.... Pass the pipe.

the clincher is we could throw in free BLAAS for their morning brekkies,,

200k a year to have the vista of Waaaaaaterford city n the Port over your 9 iron and blaa flour stuck to your fingers when your trotting out for a round,,,,,, sure aint that glorious ,, almost heavenly !!!

those luvvly 200k rolex wearning chinese wouldnt know what hit them

Addictedtogolf

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Are you for real ? I take it you dont work in marketing or sales .... 200 members 200k ... Once a yr... In waterford.... Pass the pipe.

Yes actually work in both. But I see the world through different eyes to you.
Look at The K Club. a golf course built in a field with no features but it became a billionaires playground.

We have an ISLAND with a CASTLE on it and a 18hole golf course that could be quite nice with some money spent on it.

I am amazed that the concept of bringing rich people to the area a bad idea.. Lets just let it go to hell and lose the 80 jobs.

And Yes the current members would still get to play there along with anyone else that wants to. I just want to see the place survive and not get closed down. My first job was there when I was 15 and I love the place. Also love Waterford and trying to offer a real option but most people will knock it because the "Rich wear Rolex".
If you cant deal with rich people then you are in the right country as they rich are gone.

So if I can bring 100 rich golfers over and have the place survive you don't want it?

Or the other option. let the place close down because there is no money in Waterford to do anything with it. They cant afford to fill a pothole.

comeraghs

We need more people in Waterford like you Addicted to Golf. Positive attitude. Never mind the begrudgers! Plenty of fight left in Waterford yet.

Waterford castle Management

Elliotlumb wrote: »

Hi all. I have just found and joined this site. I am slightly worried to say the least as I have my wedding booked for a full weekend at the castle next May. I took a call from the wedding planner on Saturday to assure me my deposit ( of several thousand pounds) is safe. Me and my fiancé have spent the best part of 2 years trying to find the perfect venue, we exhausted everything England had to offer and started to look in Ireland. Waterford castle was recommended to us and we fell in love with it. It would be a great shame not only for us but for the many other people who must be in the same position as us. We booked the entire castle and 10 lodges for 2 nights and if we can't have the ceremony there I will be mortified.

Having read the posts on here, I agree that it will have to be sold as one lot, and as we all know in the current climate finding a creditable buyer will be very difficult

Hi Elliotlumb

As stated by the castle it will be business as normal and the castle is trading day to day as normal. As we all know there are loads of hotels in receivership for instance The five star Lyrath Hotel, the Ritz Carlton or Fota Island Resort, all these hotels are trading as normal just like Waterford Castle will... The Fota Island Resort has been in receivership for over two years and all their weddings have went ahead as planned and is trading perfectly. There is no worry for Waterford Castles future as stated on your call you received the other day. The castle looks forward to a very bright future. If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact the castle

Waterford castle Management

GUEVARA50 wrote: »

NEXT MAY !!!????

I would be asking for a refund NOW. Your fully entitled to with no risk of losing your deposit due to the liquidation process. Id rather be safe then crying the day before!

Hi Guevara50,

This is actually untrue. The Castle will continue to trade as normal. All weddings have no fear of losing their deposits and all are honoured. We at the castle are looking to the future and hope to increase business and look forward to a successful future.

Addictedtogolf

Waterford castle Management wrote: »

Hi Guevara50,

This is actually untrue. The Castle will continue to trade as normal. All weddings have no fear of loosing their deposits and all are honoured. We at the castle are looking to the future and hope to increase business and look forward to a successful future.

Great to hear. Very best of Luck as you have an amazing product.