I want to build a car, 2013

IK09

Yes yes i know, what is this lunatic thinking. :rolleyes: and i am aware that pretty much everyone is going to laugh and say "you have no idea whats involved, dont even try" or "what a fúckin eejit"

I have drawn a car, on paper, with a pencil. That is as far as i have got . Just a touch of background on myself. I love cars. I know tosh all about how to build them but im a trier. In recent years i have watched basically every car show on TV and am sick of watching. I would love to get into the action of building a custom car. I know it would cost thousands but im not planning on getting it done in a few weeks, more like a few years. Has anyone ever worked on a custom car? Has anyone ever worked on custom body work. I have no experience on working on cars apart from what i did in this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58867483

As you can see from that thread i lack the general caution that is needed to plan ahead, thats why i am asking you guys to give me a brief outline of what will be involved? will i be able to do it myself? or will i just end up getting professionals to do everything for me? Im sure i would have to get my design done in auto-cad, which again i have no experience of. I know i would have to get someone to design the engine bay so that there would be room for everything. Im not worried about interior or cosmetics. That will be an after thought. The car will be a 2 seater hotrod type.

Would designing and building a chassis be the best way to go or would an existing chassis be better?

Any help and comments are much appreciated

Henry Ford III

Anything is possible I guess, but for a first build I reckon a kit car might be the way to go.

Delta Kilo

^^

Ironic username for the thread title!!

Chimaera

Some questions you must answer before you even think about planning this:
1) Are you building from scratch or modifying an existing vehicle?
2) Is it for road use?

Modifying an existing vehicle is much easier for a first project IMO, though you're more limited with options for design.

If you're building for road use, it must meet the relevant ECE norms for vehicle construction and use and will have to be put through Individual Vehicle Approval by the NSAI (http://www.nsai.ie/Our-Services/Certification/Automotive-Certification/Type-Approval/IVA---Individual-Vehicle-Approval.aspx).

If you plan to build from scratch, there are two sources I'd suggest having a look at.

The Haynes Roadster is an evolution of the Locost design developed by Ron Champion and published in his book "How to Build a Sports Car for £250". The redesign mostly resulted from an engineering analysis of the Locost design and aimed to correct some of the deficiencies of that design. The design is published in the book by Chris Gibbs "Build Your Own Sports Car: On a Budget". It would provide a good starting point for a self-build project IMO. The benefit of starting here is a lot of the basic engineering design work is done already for you.

You should also have a look at the regulations for Formula Student and Formula SAE. These are competitions held for university teams to design and build a formula type race car and compete against each other. There are a comprehensive set of regulations designed to ensure a safe car design, including the chassis. There are also many forums dedicated to these competitions where you may find useful information. A word of caution here though: you're really starting from scratch here. You'll have to design and fabricate pretty much everything. It typically takes a team of 10-15 people at least a year to design/build a car for FS - this will be a long project on your own.

Consider what skills you have. You'll need to cut, fabricate and weld to do a project like this, and you'll need to be good at all three. How good depends on how much you do and where you start from. You'll need engineering skills and knowledge if you design from the ground up, or a buddy who does. This stuff is not as easy as it might look.

If you plan to use CAD, consider something like Solidworks or Autodesk Inventor. AutoCAD is a 2D drafting package - Draftsight is a free alternative to AutoCAD and works well IME.

Good luck with it if you go ahead.

The Backwards Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM

kirving

I helped build a Formula Student Car from scratch this year in a team of 16 or so. It's a massive undertaking, especially since the entire wheel hub/upright assembly was designed from scratch and CNC milled out, custom chassis designed in SolidWorks, in-house carbon fibre bodywork, entire electrical system, etc,

Anyway, have a look at the link in my sig to get a taster of what was involved. I'd love to get involved, even if it was just some basic SolidWorks or advice on electronic systems.

Kevin

IK09

I had planned on building my own chassis, I have drawn a design that i think is solid, i have a mate that is a structural engineer so hopefully he will be able to pass judgement on it. I just feel that i wouldnt know what chassis to pick that would suit the cars shape, and i think i would be limiting myself re: upgrading the vehicle


Yes it would be for road use. I have a brother who is a quality welder, i have done some welding in the past (not pretty but it held).

As far as regulations go, im a fish out of water, i wouldnt have the slightest idea what would be considered road legal.

jesus theres reading in your sig kev

Bigus

I think you should start with a kit car package and donor car.

These local lads might help
http://www.ikcc.ie/

Pj!

Admire your enthusiasm OP.

Hope you keep us updated with pics.

IK09

Hey Kev do you have any pics pf that project?

kirving

Yeah, there's loads on the Facebook page linked in my sig (if you can't see the link, here it is: https://www.facebook.com/formuladit/photos_stream)

If you want any info on, or pictures of, anything particular, I can ask another member of the team. Each person was responsible for a particular section, but I've a reasonable overall knowledge of the car as a whole.

ironclaw

IK09 wrote: »

I had planned on building my own chassis, I have drawn a design that i think is solid, i have a mate that is a structural engineer so hopefully he will be able to pass judgement on it. I just feel that i wouldnt know what chassis to pick that would suit the cars shape, and i think i would be limiting myself re: upgrading the vehicle

Are you an engineer yourself?

Structural would be of little use here unless they specialise in the area of chassis or automotive in general. Theres more to it than strength, you need to consider cornering, balance etc etc.

As has been said, I'd recommend going the donor car / kit route first. But I admire you, its something I'd be interested in doing (K1 Attack would be my choice)

IK09

No im certainly no engineer! But il try anything, ya a structural engineer is all i can get my hands on for free! My fiancees uncle is a mechanic so he'll be able to gimme a hand with that side of things.

I reckon im going to have to throw my chassis plans out the window and just replicate something that is already online.

thanks for the advice but if im going to do it at all im going to do to whole lot, i.e chassis etc

Interceptor

Start spannering an existing car. Buy an end-of-life vehicle and see how it went together. Modify it to suit your tastes and then start looking at how you would do things differently. Kit cars, modified cars and classics are all great ways to learn automotive engineering but you can't beat an actual qualification. You can make cars out of wood, fibreglass or iron but don't plan on bringing them out in public.

Stick up a drawing of what you are trying to do - I'm sure lots of people on here will advise you how to start.

'c

IK09

ya im at work atm by im going to do the chassis design in a software program that allows 3-d so that i can see it more realistically. now to call a friend and see if he has a 3d software package

IK09

Just had a look online and this would be similar to the chassis i would be looking to design

http://www.kitcarchassis.com/images/projects/projectE-2.jpg

ford jedi

well done for thinking about giving it a go , firstly decided on what the objective is, ie an off roader/drag racer/ hotrod,rally car etc and that way;) you can decided on the type of motor/tranmission you are goin to have to design you car around, been un qualified means nothing once you have a good idea /design and can bounce off people who are qualified, alot of top guys will usually be swayed if they like where the project is goin.

firstly your design of car ,whats is the plan ? do you just have a slick drawing ? or it like homer simpsons canyonero?

throw your drawing up on board,, and start with the general design, 3dr/5dr no doors? then decide its goal, to be the fasted coupe, best handling coupe etc that way you can look further in to suspension etc which is as vital as the motor / interior/ergonomics it will be a long load.

as a few lads have pointed out to you the kit car road would be an ideal route to gain experience, before you even kick off make sure you plan on havin no social life , no bird , no money for a very long time ,
ive done stacks of these projects and they just eat money, but i admire you thoughts if you can stick with it,,

as a great man once said "if its got wheels or tits its gona cost you a whole lot of money"

dgt

A lot of work involved in building a car.... Kit car should be significantly easier as it's all new parts and less toys

alias no.9

IK09 wrote: »

Just had a look online and this would be similar to the chassis i would be looking to design

http://www.kitcarchassis.com/images/projects/projectE-2.jpg

Unless the intricacies of chassis design really appeal to you, maybe buying something like that or building a locost chassis design might be the best bet and let your creative juices take it from there to the finished product. The level of risk involved in creating your own bespoke chassis and driving it at a later date would be a bit much.

Zoo4m8

Chimaera wrote: »

Some questions you must answer before you even think about planning this:
1) Are you building from scratch or modifying an existing vehicle?
2) Is it for road use?

Modifying an existing vehicle is much easier for a first project IMO, though you're more limited with options for design.

If you're building for road use, it must meet the relevant ECE norms for vehicle construction and use and will have to be put through Individual Vehicle Approval by the NSAI (http://www.nsai.ie/Our-Services/Certification/Automotive-Certification/Type-Approval/IVA---Individual-Vehicle-Approval.aspx).

If you plan to build from scratch, there are two sources I'd suggest having a look at.

The Haynes Roadster is an evolution of the Locost design developed by Ron Champion and published in his book "How to Build a Sports Car for £250". The redesign mostly resulted from an engineering analysis of the Locost design and aimed to correct some of the deficiencies of that design. The design is published in the book by Chris Gibbs "Build Your Own Sports Car: On a Budget". It would provide a good starting point for a self-build project IMO. The benefit of starting here is a lot of the basic engineering design work is done already for you.

You should also have a look at the regulations for Formula Student and Formula SAE. These are competitions held for university teams to design and build a formula type race car and compete against each other. There are a comprehensive set of regulations designed to ensure a safe car design, including the chassis. There are also many forums dedicated to these competitions where you may find useful information. A word of caution here though: you're really starting from scratch here. You'll have to design and fabricate pretty much everything. It typically takes a team of 10-15 people at least a year to design/build a car for FS - this will be a long project on your own.

Consider what skills you have. You'll need to cut, fabricate and weld to do a project like this, and you'll need to be good at all three. How good depends on how much you do and where you start from. You'll need engineering skills and knowledge if you design from the ground up, or a buddy who does. This stuff is not as easy as it might look.

If you plan to use CAD, consider something like Solidworks or Autodesk Inventor. AutoCAD is a 2D drafting package - Draftsight is a free alternative to AutoCAD and works well IME.

Good luck with it if you go ahead.

The advice in this post IMO is the way you should consider. I have built a number of comp cars from the ground up , chassis, everything,over the last thirty years and I'm still learning. You need to know so much about chassis design alone, suspension geometrics, loads, stress points etc etc.
I really think the Locost or a kit car is the way to go, you will learn so much with the minimum of pain , hopefully!
I admire your ambition but really walk before you run...

keithsfleet

Fair play to you pal.
If you have the space give it a shot.

As other people have said though, go with a kit car or alternatively buy something from a scrab yard, strip it right back and build on top of the chassis.

You could leave the engine, transmission and suspension and create the body panels to fit what you want in your head.
Then once that is done and you feel you want the grunt of bigger engines/gearboxes take that on.

IK09

Would i not be limited by the chassis i chose re: engine, gearbox, design?

ironclaw

IK09 wrote: »

Would i not be limited by the chassis i chose re: engine, gearbox, design?

Yes. Its all connected. Chassis will determine engine, handing, power transfer, weight distribution etc. Its really quite complicated.

keithsfleet

Sorry I actually meant starting a new car completely but I was suggesting something from a scrap yard to get the design and panel beating aspect of your dream car.
It would be a whole lot more work to completely start a new car but getting the astectics of it without messing with the mechanical side of it might satisfy the dream car inside you.

kirving

The main issue with designing a chassis design is the sheer number of things that you have to take into consideration. This immediately translates into the question of where to even start? Driver ergonomics? Powertain Location? Aesthetics?

If you decide on a track width, you can then start to look at aspects such as:

• Ideal scrub radius, camber, roll, caster, kingpin and Ackerman angles (these are a massive amount of work)
• Suspension type, geometry, stiffness
• Upright design
• Brakes
• Wishbone design
• Suspension mounting points
• Steering rack location
• Engine Location
• Driver Location
• Load paths, chassis stiffness, safety (all done in Solidworks)
• Material
• Welding rigs

That's if you go down the route of designing the chassis for yourself. You have to decide carefully(based on research) on all of these aspects of you'll end up with a car that flat can't turn corners because the bought-in uprights don't suit the custom chassis, or one which the driver doesn't fit into. I don't mean to scare you off but the chassis alone is an incredible amount of work, and I've just listed some parts which I can remember from other peoples projects. It took four people the guts of a year to design and manufacture what I listed above, with guidance from a rulebook that actually gives some helpful constraints so you have a baseline to work from, previous years designs, free access to any machines we wanted pretty much, tonnes of data on vehicle dynamics, and telemetry data we got during track testing, and that was only for a single seater that isn't subject to the same rules as a road going car.

I don't mean to put you off, and I'd love to help out with the 3D drawing if I could, but a custom chassis just gets too complicated too quickly for one person to pull off well in a reasonable amount of time. If you went down the road of a kit car, you could always modify stock parts at a later stage to get some experience of what was involved, and then begin to design something new, based on a solid foundation.

mb1725

You won't find a 'chassis' per se on any modern car. You are probably looking at building something like this spaceframe:



Body work could be in aluminium / fibreglass / kevlar etc. Big problems would arise though when you try to register the vehicle for road use. There is no kit car registration process in Ireland as far as I know. God knows what NCT would make of it. Might be possible for off-road / competition purposes though. Certainly a good learning curve.

mb1725

Chimaera

mb1725 wrote: »

There is no kit car registration process in Ireland as far as I know. God knows what NCT would make of it. Might be possible for off-road / competition purposes though. Certainly a good learning curve.

You should read more carefully then. There is a process known as IVA which I mentioned in my first post in this thread. Once your car goes through IVA you're entitled to register it like any other car.

firefly08

OP if you don't have a lot of experience in working on cars, I'd recommend Hillier's Fundementals Of Motor Vehicle Technology.

It wouldn't cover anything in the kind of depth you would need for this project, but it's a great all round introduction to the principle and practical side of all the subsystems of a car. It will explain the basic ways chassis are made and why, along with the various types of drivetrains, suspension setups etc.

mickdw

Chimaera wrote: »

You should read more carefully then. There is a process known as IVA which I mentioned in my first post in this thread. Once your car goes through IVA you're entitled to register it like any other car.

I didnt know that was possible in Ireland. Very interesting link to NSAI.

Zebrano

IK09 wrote: »

Yes yes i know, what is this lunatic thinking. :rolleyes: and i am aware that pretty much everyone is going to laugh and say "you have no idea whats involved, dont even try" or "what a fúckin eejit"

I have drawn a car, on paper, with a pencil. That is as far as i have got . Just a touch of background on myself. I love cars. I know tosh all about how to build them but im a trier. In recent years i have watched basically every car show on TV and am sick of watching. I would love to get into the action of building a custom car. I know it would cost thousands but im not planning on getting it done in a few weeks, more like a few years. Has anyone ever worked on a custom car? Has anyone ever worked on custom body work. I have no experience on working on cars apart from what i did in this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58867483

As you can see from that thread i lack the general caution that is needed to plan ahead, thats why i am asking you guys to give me a brief outline of what will be involved? will i be able to do it myself? or will i just end up getting professionals to do everything for me? Im sure i would have to get my design done in auto-cad, which again i have no experience of. I know i would have to get someone to design the engine bay so that there would be room for everything. Im not worried about interior or cosmetics. That will be an after thought. The car will be a 2 seater hotrod type.

Would designing and building a chassis be the best way to go or would an existing chassis be better?

Any help and comments are much appreciated

Did u ever start this

Notch000