Question about hell

Jumboman

Does a mass murderer go to the same hell as someone who is not religious, ie are their different levels of hell ?

georgieporgy

Yep, same place but with different degrees of punishment.
the punishment fits the crime.

Jumboman

georgieporgy wrote: »

Yep, same place but with different degrees of punishment.
the punishment fits the crime.

And what would the punishment be ?

martinedwards

a big pointy stick.

on fire

georgieporgy

St Faustina fleshed it out a bit
http://www.divinemercysunday.com/vision.htm

hinault

Sister Faustina :

""Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:
The First Torture that constitutes hell is:
The loss of God.

The Second is:
Perpetual remorse of conscience.

The Third is
That one's condition will never change.

The Fourth is:
The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger.

The Fifth Torture is:
Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.

The Sixth Torture is:
The constant company of Satan.

The Seventh Torture is:
Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.
These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings"

endacl

Feck. That sounds a bit crappy.

Geomy

hinault wrote: »

Sister Faustina :

""Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:
The First Torture that constitutes hell is:
The loss of God.

The Second is:
Perpetual remorse of conscience.

The Third is
That one's condition will never change.

The Fourth is:
The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger.

The Fifth Torture is:
Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.

The Sixth Torture is:
The constant company of Satan.

The Seventh Torture is:
Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.
These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings"

It sounds like a fetish night, some people might feel at home there. ...

hinault

Geomy wrote: »

It sounds like a fetish night, some people might feel at home there. ...

I wouldn't know:)

On a serious note, we're told not to doubt the real existence that is Hell.

endacl

hinault wrote: »

I wouldn't know:)

On a serious note, we're told not to doubt the real existence that is Hell.

Told not to doubt?

hinault

endacl wrote: »

Told not to doubt?

Yeah.
In others words to believe that Hell actually exists and not to doubt or deny that it exists.

endacl

hinault wrote: »

Yeah.
In others words to believe that Hell actually exists and not to doubt or deny that it exists.

I'm afraid I can only respond with a heartfelt ..... :rolleyes:

Jumboman

hinault wrote: »

Yeah.
In others words to believe that Hell actually exists and not to doubt or deny that it exists.

Wheres the proof that hell exists ?

hinault

Jumboman wrote: »

Wheres the proof that hell exists ?

The proof is contained in the words of the Bible.

Jumboman

hinault wrote: »

The proof is contained in the words of the Bible.

Thats just a book it doesnt really prove anything.

hinault

Jumboman wrote: »

Thats just a book it doesnt really prove anything.

You're entitled to your opinion.

But it begs the obvious question, why ask about something which you believe doesn't exist

MickFleetwood

hinault wrote: »

The proof is contained in the words of the Bible.

I'm not here to get into a religious debate seeing as it's boring as all **** and this is the Christianity sub-forum but surely even avid Catholic folk have enough sense to acknowledge that the Bible can't be referenced or cited as proof, in any way.

hinault

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I'm not here to get into a religious debate seeing as it's boring as all fúck and this is the Christianity sub-forum but surely even avid Catholic folk have enough sense to acknowledge that the Bible can't be referenced or cited as proof, in any way.

The Gospels cite the fact that Hell exists, therefore Catholics and Christians if they are sincere in their faith must accept what the Gospel teaches in respect of Hell.

MickFleetwood

hinault wrote: »

The Gospels cite the fact that Hell exists, therefore Catholics and Christians if they are sincere in their faith must accept what the Gospel teaches in respect of Hell.

So you blindly believe in the book, then? Alright. You must also accept the fact that talking snakes also existed, else it's a double-standard.

Please show me where The Bible actually cites the existence of Hell.

onemorechance

How could people rejoice being in Heaven knowing that so many are suffering in Hell?

MickFleetwood

onemorechance wrote: »

How could people rejoice being in Heaven knowing that so many are suffering in Hell?

Well, in the eyes of a Catholic I suppose, they rationalize that sufferers deserve it due to their own reckless behavior and sinful attitude toward life.

It would be like me or you not really caring knowing that somebody is suffering due to being in a gang and getting shot. So, you can't really fault them.

hinault

MickFleetwood wrote: »

So you blindly believe in the book, then? Alright. You must also accept the fact that talking snakes also existed, else it's a double-standard.

Please show me where The Bible actually cites the existence of Hell.

Gospel of St.Matthew is one that cites the existence of Hell

Matthew 25:40-41: Matthew 22:13-14: Matthew 13:41-42 :

hinault

onemorechance wrote: »

How could people rejoice being in Heaven knowing that so many are suffering in Hell?

What people would be rejoicing?

onemorechance

hinault wrote: »

What people would be rejoicing?

Those in Heaven!

Jumboman

hinault wrote: »

Gospel of St.Matthew is one that cites the existence of Hell

Matthew 25:40-41: Matthew 22:13-14: Matthew 13:41-42 :

If their is a hell how would you be able to keep that many people locked up without them breaking out ?

hinault

onemorechance wrote: »

Those in Heaven!

Where does it say that people in Heaven would be rejoicing at the fact that people are condemned to Hell?
Can you provide a link to support your assertion?

hinault

Jumboman wrote: »

If their is a hell how would you be able to keep that many people locked up without them breaking out ?

You don't believe in Hell so why does it bother you?

MickFleetwood

onemorechance wrote: »

Those in Heaven!

You are incorrectly assuming they would be rejoicing. You think people in Heaven (if they actually reach there, provided it exists) would be reveling in the fact that people are suffering in Hell?

You have a skewed understanding of Christianity, if so. As far I know they want to save those in life from the depths Hell by leading them towards Catholicism or whatever their particular faith is. They obviously do not rejoice at the fact.

onemorechance

hinault wrote: »

Where does it say that people in Heaven would be rejoicing at the fact that people are condemned to Hell?
Can you provide a link to support your assertion?

I never said "that people in Heaven would be rejoicing at the fact that people are condemned to Hell".

I am simply asking how could a person be happy to be in Heaven in the knowledge that there are so many people suffering in Hell.

Jumboman

hinault wrote: »

You don't believe in Hell so why does it bother you?

I didnt say I believe in it one way or the other. I'm just interested in the whole concept of hell.

MickFleetwood

onemorechance wrote: »

I never said "that people in Heaven would be rejoicing at the fact that people are condemned to Hell".

I am simply asking how could a person be happy to be in Heaven in the knowledge that there are so many people suffering in Hell.

Well, why wouldn't they be happy? They have reached Paradise. How often do you feel sad about a random citizen experiencing difficulties in their life due to gang related violence, for example? Probably never I'd venture to guess, much like the vast majority of the population. They have lead a particular lifestyle which leads to suffering, whilst knowingly refusing to accept God or, in the gang related violence case, refused to lead a normal, healthy lifestyle.

The sinners who arrive at Hell have chosen that particular lifestyle and "rejected" God and Christianity/Catholicism, so to speak.

hinault

onemorechance wrote: »

I never said "that people in Heaven would be rejoicing at the fact that people are condemned to Hell".

I am simply asking how could a person be happy to be in Heaven in the knowledge that there are so many people suffering in Hell.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85573952

onemorechance

MickFleetwood wrote: »

Well, why wouldn't they be happy? They have reached Paradise. How often do you feel sad about a random citizen experiencing difficulties in their life due to gang related violence, for example? Probably never I'd venture to guess, much like the vast majority of the population.

The sinners who arrive at Hell have chosen that particular lifestyle and "rejected" God and Christianity/Catholicism, so to speak.

I feel empathy for all people who are suffering, whether they are suffering in earth, or in Hell.

hinault

Jumboman wrote: »

I didnt say I believe in it one way or the other. I'm just interested in the whole concept of hell.

You said that you didn't believe what the Bible says and what it teaches.

The Bible teaches what Hell is, therefore if you don't believe in the Bible, you can't claim to believe in the existence of Hell.

endacl

hinault wrote: »

You said that you didn't believe what the Bible says and what it teaches.

The Bible teaches what Hell is, therefore if you don't believe in the Bible, you can't claim to believe in the existence of Hell.

And the circle closes...

MickFleetwood

onemorechance wrote: »

I feel empathy for all people who are suffering, whether they are suffering in earth, or in Hell.

Yeah, I'm sure you feel empathy for gangsters getting shot by other gangsters. :rolleyes:

The point is that you wondering how people in Heaven can be happy whilst others are suffering in Hell shows a misunderstanding of things. They do feel for the people in Hell, but they have willingly placed themselves there through their own lifestyle. The same way as I don't care when vicious drug dealers suffer at the hands of other drug dealers, thieves and gangsters.

I'm not comparing to normal citizens in Hell to gangsters, just making a valid analogy.

onemorechance

hinault wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85573952

Are you trying to create an infinite loop!? :pac:

I asked "How could people rejoice being in Heaven knowing that so many are suffering in Hell?" which is not what you are trying to attribute to me "that people in Heaven would be rejoicing at the fact that people are condemned to Hell".

How could people rejoice being in Heaven in the knowledge that (not because) so many are suffering in Hell?

onemorechance

MickFleetwood wrote: »

Yeah, I'm sure you feel empathy for gangsters getting shot by other gangsters. :rolleyes:

The point is that you wondering how people in Heaven can be happy whilst others are suffering in Hell shows a misunderstanding of things. They do feel for the people in Hell, but they have willingly placed themselves there through their own lifestyle. The same way as I don't care when vicious drug dealers suffer at the hands of other drug dealers, thieves and gangsters.

I'm not comparing to normal citizens in Hell to gangsters, just making a valid analogy.

OK. I hope all goes well for you.

MickFleetwood

onemorechance wrote: »

Are you trying to create an infinite loop!? :pac:

I asked "How could people rejoice being in Heaven knowing that so many are suffering in Hell?" which is not what you are trying to attribute to me "that people in Heaven would be rejoicing at the fact that people are condemned to Hell".

How could people rejoice being in Heaven in the knowledge that (not because) so many are suffering in Hell?

You have been answered multiple times already. :pac:

They do feel empathy for the people suffering. That doesn't mean they need to expend every single thought or bit of energy grieving about other people suffering, considering they placed themselves in that position.

onemorechance

MickFleetwood wrote: »

You have been answered multiple times already. :pac:

They do feel empathy for the people suffering. That doesn't mean they need to expend every single thought or bit of energy grieving about other people suffering, considering they placed themselves in that position.

It saddens me that you can put a at the end of that.

MickFleetwood

onemorechance wrote: »

It saddens me that you can put a at the end of that.

Why? It saddens you that I'm trying to be somewhat civil and polite with you? :pac:

So you think they should expend all their thoughts and energy grieving about these people who are suffering? No? Then you shouldn't haven't commented on the way I articulated myself. If you do think they should do that, then you should follow your own advice and spend your entire day caring about all the suffering in the world. Which is virtually impossible to do, needless and time-wasting.

Either way you're not being consistent.

hinault

onemorechance wrote: »

Are you trying to create an infinite loop!? :pac:

I asked "How could people rejoice being in Heaven knowing that so many are suffering in Hell?" which is not what you are trying to attribute to me "that people in Heaven would be rejoicing at the fact that people are condemned to Hell".

How could people rejoice being in Heaven in the knowledge that (not because) so many are suffering in Hell?

We're told that each person is responsible for his/her eternal fate.

Each persons actions and thoughts and words in this life will determine their eternal life.
Therefore it is the actions, thoughts and words which will either condemn a person to hell or it will gain them access to heaven.

Will people in heaven rejoice being in heaven knowing that others are suffering in hell?
What is certain is that everyone will know is that each person who is solely responsible for his/her fate and in that context, can someone feel guilty because someone else refused to do what was necessary to gain eternal life in heaven?

MickFleetwood

hinault wrote: »

We're told that each person is responsible for his/her eternal fate.

Each persons actions and thoughts and words in this life will determine their eternal life.
Therefore it is the actions, thoughts and words which will either condemn a person to hell or it will gain them access to heaven.

Will people in heaven rejoice being in heaven knowing that others are suffering in hell?
What is certain is that everyone will know is that each person who is solely responsible for his/her fate and in that context, can someone feel guilty because someone else refused to do what was necessary to gain eternal life in heaven?

Precisely this. I get the sense that that particular poster is simply trying to antagonize Christians just because they're Christians; which I am not, by the way. Just pointing out logical inconsistencies and fallacies which I've noticed.

onemorechance

hinault wrote: »

We're told that each person is responsible for his/her eternal fate.

Each persons actions and thoughts and words in this life will determine their eternal life.
Therefore it is the actions, thoughts and words which will either condemn a person to hell or it will gain them access to heaven.

Will people in heaven rejoice being in heaven knowing that others are suffering in hell?
What is certain is that everyone will know is that each person who is solely responsible for his/her fate and in that context, can someone feel guilty because someone else refused to do what was necessary to gain eternal life in heaven?

I think that we can feel guilty that people who lead good and kind lives may be condemned to Hell because they didn't do what they were told, while someone like Fr. Brendan Smyth may be allowed into Heaven due to him possibly repenting and seeking forgiveness in the nick of time.

MickFleetwood

onemorechance wrote: »

I think that we can feel guilty that people who lead good and kind lives may be condemned to Hell because they didn't do what they were told, while someone like Fr. Brendan Smyth may be allowed into Heaven due to him possibly repenting and seeking forgiveness in the nick of time.

Why would they experience guilt for something that's completely out of their control?

You really aren't making an ounce of sense. Guilt is something you'd usually experience for doing something that causes others harm in some way. Feeling guilt for people who are in Hell makes no sense, to me; considering those in Heaven have literally nothing to do with their suffering and in some cases even tried to "help" them.

I suppose you also experience guilt whilst living in a first-world country while others aren't.

onemorechance

MickFleetwood wrote: »

Why would they experience guilt for something that's completely out of their control?

You really aren't making an ounce of sense. Guilt is something you'd usually experience for doing something that causes others harm in some way. Feeling guilt for people who are in Hell makes no sense, to me; considering those in Heaven have literally nothing to do with their suffering and in some cases even tried to "help" them.

I suppose you also experience guilt whilst living in a first-world country while others aren't.

I used the word guilty only in the post you quoted. Since you said it does not makes sense to you I will try to explain why in that particular example a person may feel guilt.

I gave the example of kind person vs. evil person and how evil person may get to Heaven while a kind person may not. Those who do what they are told for the purpose of getting into Heaven, in my opinion could feel some guilt for being complicent in an order which can look more favourably on a person who did so much evil than a person who did so much kindness.

MickFleetwood

onemorechance wrote: »

I used the word guilty only in the post you quoted. Since you said it does not makes sense to you I will try to explain why in that particular example a person may feel guilt.

I gave the example of kind person vs. evil person and how evil person may get to Heaven while a kind person may not. Those who do what they are told for the purpose of getting into Heaven, in my opinion could feel some guilt for being complicent in an order which can look more favourably on a person who did so much evil than a person who did so much kindness.

I literally cannot fathom how a person pretending to be good to help themselves would feel guilt about those who don't. I'm sorry, it just doesn't register for me.

onemorechance

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I literally cannot fathom how a person pretending to be good to help themselves would feel guilt about those who don't. I'm sorry, it just doesn't register for me.

No worries.

martinedwards

Using the BIBLE as a reference there are a few (very few!) descriptions of hell.


(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).

(2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).

(3) Hell is conscious torment.

Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”

(4) Hell is eternal and irreversible.

Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”
Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”
Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”

purgatory in't in the bible, nor is the 7 layers of Dante's inferno.

MY OPINION?

God is a Just Judge.

if you accept Christ, then you go to Heaven. you reject Christ, you go to Hell.

onlinenerd

Jumboman wrote: »

Thats just a book it doesnt really prove anything.

Please explain.

georgieporgy

St Catherine of Siena (14th century Doctor of the Church) also had much to say about Hell:

22. Of the four principal torments of the damned, from which follow all the others; and particularly of the foulness of the Devil....
Her book recounts her dialogue with God the Father and has lots of useful information

http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/dialogue/diag33.php