Cbe a910-6 Charger

TheGrabbingHand

Was out in the van last weekend and everything was ok on the first night but on the second and subsequent nights everytime I used 12v, be it lights or water pump after about a min I could hear a relay click and all the 12v would go off.
If I turned 12v off and on at control panel it would trip out again after about a min.
The charger unit is a cbe a910-6

Any help would be much appreciated

Does it reset automatically or do you reset manually?
Short circuit most likely.
Check positives near battery aren't touching chassis. Also have a look for cut or chewed wires.

TheGrabbingHand

If I turn it off and on from the control panel not the charger it comes on straight away for about 1 min again. Haven't actually tried it using the chargers power switch

Strange. Might be a resetable fuse somewhere. Still, try disconnecting battery and mains and check for shorts; continuity between positives and negative/chassis.

Aidan_M_M

That happens when the control board detects low voltage. Try a different. Battery.

Ah LVD. Low voltage disconnect.

TheGrabbingHand

First thing I did was put the engine battery in place of leisure battery. Made no difference.

Aidan_M_M

Then you have either a bad connection somewhere or a fault in the system.

Is the engine battery known good?

TheGrabbingHand

Engine battery good.
By a fault in the system do you mean the van wiring or the charger unit?

Any wiring linked to the leisure battery including the charger. Not the vehicle automotive electrics.

TheGrabbingHand

Ok. Tried it again with only the power-in connectors attached and connector to control panel. Nothing connected to the power-out connectors. Same problem.

So I think it must be in either the charger unit or the control panel.

I'd open it up so (with battery and mains disconnected) and look for exposed wires or touching contacts.

Or this would fulfill Aidan's theory. Without a battery it'll detect as low or no voltage.

Try it again with nothing except the charger connected to the battery.

TheGrabbingHand

I taken unit out and opened it. no obvious damage or touching contacts.
I've also tried it without mains and its still turning off ??

Disconnecting mains and battery are electrical safety issues which is why I made the suggestion. Often disconnecting the battery is for the safety of the device you are working on more so than you as 12volt is fairly harmless at low amps but still potentially dangerous depending on what you are doing (eg. shorting battery terminals with a spanner will hurt).
Always disconnect the negative battery clamp last and reconnect first, this eliminates sparks and the risk of shorting off the chassis (on negatively grounded vehicles...ahem..the vast majority are). Lessons in accidental reversed polarity while working on live circuits are often very expensive (..my tabs still running...a 9 volt PP3 battery cost me today's wages if I can find the right circuit board from the right source).

Do not use mains at any point during this process, unplug your hook-up. Electrics ought to be a daytime activity for the first 2 years.

Assuming the fault is not in the charger you will need to isolate and systematically line check every circuit. Most of this can be done from the battery posts.

If the charger only and no consumer units (fridge, inverter, tap, lights etc.) is connected to the battery and the charger trips the fault is in the charger or the control panel.

If it's doesn't trip;
Turn everything 12v related off.
Disconnect the battery clamps and get a multimeter.
Test the unconnected positive and unconnected negative battery clamps for continuity. If the multimeter displays Open Circuit or buzzes or bells then you have a short circuit somewhere but you don't know where.
If you have several sets of wires run to the battery single them out into their +ive and -ive pairings. Then one at a time connect them to the battery with the control panel set to 12volt. When something trips you've found the culprit circuit...chase the wires, pull the cores check the connections for breaks etc.

If nothing trips;
Leave everything off and reconnect all wiring as it was originally. Turn everything on and off one by one until it trips and you have found the fault in an appliance after a consumer unit switch. Inspect this appliance/light.

What kind of fuse board do you have for camping quarters? Are there any resettable fuses in it? Where does the click noise come from?

TheGrabbingHand

The problem is that the charger and Power Distribution unit are all one unit - here
The way its set up is that one 9pin connector has all the feeds in and another 12 pin has all the outputs.
I disconnected the outputs and just had power in connection and control panel connection in and it still tripped out. I tried this with mains power and battery only. Still the same problem - after roughly a min you can hear a relay clicking off.

Is the clicking coming from the control panel?

Had a look at your pdf...that's pretty daunting.

I reckon there's your troublemaker.

FUSES inside the battery charger : fuse 2A 230V (5x20 type), self-resetting thermal fuse (inside the transformer).

It's not a relay.

Remove fuses 1-6 and see if it trips to confirm.

How do you feel about making jumping wires to limit the pin out connections?

Is it possible to label and remove the wires from the multi-pin connectors without damaging the connector?

You can start narrowing it down by belling out (continuity checking with a multimeter) the 12 pole connector. Connect the black meter lead to a good ground and check the 12 pins (not sockets) for a short.
Do you have water/waste in the tanks?

TheGrabbingHand

it still trips out if only on battery.

yeah I'm still beard scratching, I realised you said that earlier...double edit

I don't understand why the transformer might have issue on battery alone. Anyone else got any ideas?

Sir Liamalot

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

You can start narrowing it down by belling out (continuity checking with a multimeter) the 12 pole connector. Connect the black meter lead to a good ground and check the 12 pins (not sockets) for a short.

Ignore this too ^ disconnecting the 12 pin connector has already determined this is not necessary.

TheGrabbingHand

I've had the unit out sitting on a bench and it behaves properly. Its only when control unit is plugged and a signal(for want of a better word) is sent that it trips

I'd bypass the transformer with another fused similarly rated one before condemning the charger. I find the cheapest source of good traffos is for LED strip-lights...may not be something you want to invest in when looking at potentially buying a new charger though.
A 20A traffo could be near the €100 mark.
It's looking like an electronics problem.



If it's still tripping with these removed then I'd be inclined to say it's the charger/distributor at fault, which I have to admit is beyond my expertise.

wrote:

FUSE 15A, for the 12V power supply of the "A" uses group, it depends on the general switch.
FUSE 15A, for the 12V power supply of the "B" uses group, it depends on the general switch.
FUSE 10A, for the water pump power supply, it depends on the general switch.
FUSE 3A, for the power supply of heating/boiler, refrigerator, gas, etc..., it's directly connected to the
services battery (B2).
FUSE 15A, for the power supply of the 12V absorber refrigerator which works with working engine; it
depends on the refrigerator relay.
FUSE 20A, for the electrical step power supply, it's directly connected to the starter battery (B1).

Have you tried it with the water tank connectors disconnected? The 2 and 4 pin ones?

TheGrabbingHand

TheGrabbingHand wrote: »

I've had the unit out sitting on a bench and it behaves properly. Its only when control unit is plugged and a signal(for want of a better word) is sent that it trips

What do you mean by signal?
Could be live earthing through the casing, it would explain why it only manifests when the unit is assembled. Is anything getting pressed when you assemble it

TheGrabbingHand

TheGrabbingHand wrote: »

I've had the unit out sitting on a bench and it behaves properly. Its only when control unit is plugged and a signal(for want of a better word) is sent that it trips

Can you describe what you've achieved here more specifically?
I don't follow.

How about checking the water level sensors? They're two other circuits (fresh and waste) to check that aren't on the 12 pin connector.
Reassemble as per original, except do not connect the blocks on 11 and 12 on Charger.jpg.
See if it trips.
This will eliminate two more possibilities like shorts from the water probes.

Have you any 5 amp or higher 240vAC -110vAC to 12.4vDC transformers like this?



Things like pre-USB phone charger, power supply for internet router, laptop charger, tv/electronics power lead etc.

Aidan_M_M

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Have you any 5 amp or higher 240vAC -110vAC to 12.4vDC transformers like this?



Things like pre-USB phone charger, power supply for internet router, laptop charger, tv/electronics power lead etc.

Did you mean to use that as a charger, Liam? Factory builds rarely use anything less than 15 amp chargers. I suppose to keep ahead of any drain if all the consumables are turned on.

No just a fused diagnostic tool. for a small load. I want to establish that the built in traffo that's tripping is not the problem by reproducing results on another traffo.

A 5A or higher is a lot easier to find in a domestic situation than a 20A brute.

TheGrabbingHand

Have you checked your hook-up lead for loose connections in the plug & socket?
It's an unlikely possibility as I'd expect it to take out your hook-up RCD too but worth a punt. As for it working on a bench it may be only a little loose. Check wires under cable crimp of plug & socket aren't broken/mashed too, most people do these up too tight. Feel flex for breaks and bulges.

Continuity check the 16amp hook up pins on the camper external with 230V set to off on the control panel. Check live/nuetral, live/earth and neutral/earth none of these should make continuity.

TheGrabbingHand wrote: »

I've also tried it without mains and its still turning off ??

Was the hook-up lead still connected at this time? It would be best to test this with the hook-up lead disconnected, not by simply switching 230V off at the control panel.

TheGrabbingHand

Ok. Had a mate of mine (elctrician) have a look at it. Its not internal van wiring, its not 220v lead( used 2 diff ones), its not the battery so he reckons its the control panel or the power unit itself.

Spoke to Ger down in Maynooth Motorhomes and am going to drop the van down to him to see if he can find the fault. Need it fixed asap as i'm off to the continent in 2 wks.

Thanks everyone for various suggestions. I'll let you know the outcome for future ref

Good luck getting it sorted, sounds like you made good progress.

Barkee

Hi thegrabbinghand. Did you get to the bottom of this my camper is doing exactly the same thing. Same charger unit CBE