Religious Orders refuse to contribute to Magdalene laundries compensation

MadsL

The Mercy Sisters, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, the Sisters of Charity and the Good Shepherd Sisters have informed Minister for Justice Alan Shatter in recent days that they will not pay into the fund, which could cost up to €58 million.

Not a penny. Wow.

a company called Mercy International Association Ltd, which was formed to restore the building in Baggot Street, Dublin, in which Catherine McAuley founded the order in 1831, has substantial assets.

The latest accounts on file show that in December 1997 the company had fixed assets of €5.4 million and investments of €2.9 million.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2009/05_06/2009_05_31_Keena_SistersOf.htm

The four religious orders who established and ran the for-profit laundries have substantial assets and it’s for this reason that the Justice For Magdalenes group (JFM) are arguing that the €296m made in property deals during the boom by these four orders must form part of a redress package. Many of the sites the orders haven’t sold and hold on their balance sheets continue to raise revenue by selling services to the State.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/substantial-assets-but-no-more-cash-for-redress-221884.html



I vote for removing Charitable tax status and introduce a 100% windfall tax on property sales backdated to 2001 for religious orders involved in running he laundries.

DrumSteve

What a shower of *****.

mackg

You have to admit it takes a certain amount of balls to just completely refuse to give anything. But really, as long as they're sorry isn't that enough?

MadsL

mackg wrote: »

You have to admit it takes a certain amount of balls to just completely refuse to give anything. But really, as long as they're sorry isn't that enough?

Sure didn't they all go to confession...

Sir Humphrey Appleby

MadsL wrote: »

Not a penny. Wow.


http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2009/05_06/2009_05_31_Keena_SistersOf.htm



http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/substantial-assets-but-no-more-cash-for-redress-221884.html



I vote for removing Charitable tax status and introduce a 100% windfall tax on property sales backdated to 2001 for religious orders involved in running he laundries.

Great idea, but sadly you cannot introduce retrospective legislation:mad:
That said a way HAS to be found to make them pay.

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

Not a penny. Wow.


http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2009/05_06/2009_05_31_Keena_SistersOf.htm



http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/substantial-assets-but-no-more-cash-for-redress-221884.html



I vote for removing Charitable tax status and introduce a 100% windfall tax on property sales backdated to 2001 for religious orders involved in running he laundries.

I agree and they should go further than that even and seize properties from them the same way loan defaulters have properties seized. Hell if they refuse to pay then declare the ****ers bankrupt!

JRant

Am I even the slightest bit surprised by this? Hell no.

First they drag victims infront of a review panel and now they're not going to compensate these people at all.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the religious for you.

gobnaitolunacy

If it were any other employer that refused to pay staff, they'd be taken to court and well and truly shaken down.

But they're religious orders so they have to be treated with deference.

JRant

Old and grey wrote: »

Great idea, but sadly you cannot introduce retrospective legislation:mad:
That said a way HAS to be found to make them pay.

In America they stopped the transfer of chursh funds into trust funds and went after them through the courts. Can't see why that can't happen here.

MadsL

Old and grey wrote: »

Great idea, but sadly you cannot introduce retrospective legislation:mad:
That said a way HAS to be found to make them pay.

Intensive tax audits would be a start, and immediate withdrawal of their Charitable Status.

stimpson

Send the CAB after them the same as you would with any other criminal organization.

GLaDOS

I'm sure the Vatican will step in to amend this injustice

SpaceTime

Unbelievable!

They should be sued for every last cent!

mackg

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I'm sure the Vatican will step in to amend this injustice

To the Popemobile!

kylith

Strip their assets and bang up the ringleaders.

jjbrien

People should now stop putting money in the church collection on Sunday and hit the church where it hurts in its pockets.

I think a protest outside all the churches cathedrals over the weekend would be an idea to tell the church that this is not acceptable. The church has no shame.

cournioni

The problem with these religious loons is that they think that they are well and truly above everything else. We have let them away with far too much in the past and made them feel invincible in this country. The time has come to bring the ****ing walls down around them and destroy all that they have to pay back the injustices they have done to the citizens of this country.

super_furry

Thing is you can bet that privately they don't believe they did anything wrong.

oldyouth

super_furry wrote: »

Thing is you can bet that privately they don't believe they did anything wrong.

Agreed. Religious orders still live in a bubble where they think the Government don't have the balls to take them on, in case there is a backlash against them from the older generation on election day.

Sadly, they could be right

Can a private lawsuit be made against them?

Also, why are we looking at accounts from 16 years ago?

Cookie_Monster

jjbrien wrote: »

People should now stop putting money in the church collection on Sunday and hit the church where it hurts in its pockets.

90% tax on religious income would help as well.
Failing that at least recognise them as business selling a service rather than a charity since they so obviously are.

hawkelady

jjbrien wrote: »

People should now stop putting money in the church collection on Sunday and hit the church where it hurts in its pockets.

I think a protest outside all the churches cathedrals over the weekend would be an idea to tell the church that this is not acceptable. The church has no shame.

This ain't gonna happen cause there are too many god fearing folk living in lil ol' Eire. I hope in say 100 years time this country will not give a toss about what the church has to say . But I doubt it , sure there was guys aged in there 20's saying the rosary outside the dail last week !! Christ on a bike ...
Oh and I hope those nuns who are acting like they did nothing wrong suffer with their conscience until their heads explode

the_syco

oldyouth wrote: »

Agreed. Religious orders still live in reality where they know the Government don't have the balls to take them on

FYP

=-=

Take the priciest property, raise it to the ground, and sell the land. After this happening once or twice, the religious people may cop on?

SpaceTime

Could Revenue go after them retrospectively for non payment of Employer PRSI which left these women pensionless despite having worked all their lives?

krudler

What an absolute shower of scumbags, and sadly unsurprising.

clairefontaine

The problem is what they did was not and is still not illegal. Ireland never implemented anti slavery laws.

rainbow kirby

Calling them scum is an insult to perfectly good pond life everywhere. Their behaviour absolutely disgusts me - ruin lives in the name of religion and expect to get off scot free?

krudler

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Calling them scum is an insult to perfectly good pond life everywhere. Their behaviour absolutely disgusts me - ruin lives in the name of religion and expect to get off scot free?

No no y'see slave labour brought all those fallen women closer to holy god, and sure if the church made millions as a result then it only benefitted everybody.

Cienciano

Even an apology has to be dragged/forced out of them. It's constant denial. The sad thing is, a few organsiations (eg rhuama) still have these exact nuns "helping" women and the papers lap up their statements and press releases.

SpaceTime

This kind of thing is the main reason I actually defected formally from the Catholic Church. I'm not religious at all and would have just let my membership lapse in normal circumstances through lack of interest.

However, I actually find their behaviour both repulsive and hypocritical when it comes to anything like this so I formally defected as I really didn't and don't want anything to do with them as an organisation.

It's just so deeply wrong on so many levels and the worst bit is they aren't even able to recognise just how wrong it is!

Unfortunately they changed the rules shortly afterwards and you apparently can't leave anymore! At least not through any official method.

bumper234

SpaceTime wrote: »

This kind of thing is the main reason I actually defected formally from the Catholic Church. I'm not religious at all and would have just let my membership lapse in normal circumstances through lack of interest.

However, I actually find their behaviour both repulsive and hypocritical when it comes to anything like this so I formally defected as I really didn't and don't want anything to do with them as an organisation.

It's just so deeply wrong on so many levels and the worst bit is they aren't even able to recognise just how wrong it is!

Unfortunately they changed the rules shortly afterwards and you apparently can't leave anymore! At least not through any official method.

Just don't go

Mammanabammana

And just in case anyone thinks they don't have the money...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/site-by-laundry-grave-sold-for-618m-159979.html



LAND surrounding a former mass grave at the largest Magdalene Laundry was quietly sold by the order of nuns who ran it for €61.8 million during the boom.
The revelation emerged as representatives of the women imprisoned in the laundries met with Justice Minister Alan Shatter.

They discussed the new inquiry and their case for an apology, compensation and a pension for the women involved.

The Justice For Magdalenes group (JFM) said the €296m made in property deals during the boom by the four orders who ran the laundries must form part of the conversation on redress.

The Magdalene Laundry site at High Park, Drumcondra, was the second most lucrative deal involving 18 religious orders responsible for abusing children in residential homes. In total, the 18 orders made €667m in property deals between 1999 and 2009.

When the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity first sold a £1.5m tract from the same High Park campus in the early 1990s, construction workers found a grave where 133 women were buried.

In 2009, the order told the Department of the Taoiseach it had sold two more parcels of land on the same High Park site.

The larger sale was made in 2006 when Barina Construction paid €55m for a 2.7-hectare green area inside the compound.

Six years earlier, a site that housed the laundry’s Martana House was transferred for €6.68m.

When it supplied the sales data to the Department of the Taoiseach, the order asked that the information would not be circulated beyond the committee charged with examining the assets of religious congregations.

The order also informed the department it had agreed to swap its second, and smaller, Magdalene Laundry at Sean McDermott Street with Dublin City Council.

As part of the exchange, the council supplied it with a free 20-year lease for a purpose-built hostel and a new convent.

Neither Barina Construction, Dublin City Council or the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity were in a position to comment on the deals.

Yesterday, JFM and other representatives of the Magdalene survivors met with Mr Shatter for over two hours to discuss the inquiry into alleged torture.

The laundries were run by the Sisters of Mercy, the Good Shepherd Sisters, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity and the Sisters of Charity.

JFM group spokesman Jim Smith said they were assured all departmental records would be made available to the new committee, chaired by Senator Martin McAleese.

Mr Smith also welcomed assurances the inquiry would be cleared to investigate cases where the state was complicit by failing to act as well as incidents where it paid directly for services.

Reacting to revelations in the Irish Examiner, Education Minister Ruairí Quinn said he was reopening negotiations with the congregations involved.

He said if they were not willing to provide an additional €200m towards the redress compensation, he would have to make unwelcome cuts elsewhere in the education budget.

bumper234

Mammanabammana wrote: »

And just in case anyone thinks they don't have the money...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/site-by-laundry-grave-sold-for-618m-159979.html

That would do for a start :mad:

eyescreamcone

Remember that when you have your wedding, children's baptism, communions and confirmations in their church you are supporting this behaviour.

No ifs or buts - you either support this carry on or you don't!!!

I Heart Internet

The Governemnt should get it's own back by using the institutions run by these orders as dumping grounds for the people in society that we can't afford to or be bothered caring properly for ourselves.

We should also use their land and buidings for our educational institutions and hospitals.

That'll teach them....and it'll be a very handy solution to all these troublesome young women roaming our streets.

Oh wait.......

HurtLocker

The biggest shock I had was how little shock I felt reading the title. If anyone wants proof that that religious orders are more cultish in their behaviour than charities here it is.... again

I Heart Internet

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Remember that when you have your wedding, children's baptism, communions and confirmations in their church you are supporting this behaviour.

No ifs or buts - you either support this carry on or you don't!!!

As I never tire of pointing out to people, the "Church" is not one entity.

Your local parish has less than zero control over any religious order, even within it's own parish boundaries.

Dravokivich

bumper234 wrote: »

Just don't go

He means you can't currently revoke your membership from the RCC.

SEPT 23 1989

Even when things are bad they seem intent on making things worse

cant understand these peoples mentalitys

eyescreamcone

I Heart Internet wrote: »

As I never tire of pointing out to people, the "Church" is not one entity.

Your local parish has less than zero control over any religious order, even within it's own parish boundaries.

You are either with them or against them.

If you offer support in any way (especially monetary) then you are supporting their views and values.

I never tire of pointing this out!!!

bumper234

Dravokivich wrote: »

He means you can't currently revoke your membership from the RCC.

Is there a membership card and yearly fees that no one has told me about? If you don't turn up 3 Sundays in a row do they send heavies to your door? I realize what you are saying and yes i was christened and bought up as a catholic because that's what my parents wanted. In my eyes i was never a catholic because from the age of 8 i never believed in god so i cannot leave a "club" that in my eyes i was never a member. They have basically stopped the official process because they are scared which is even more reason why people should tell them they are leaving.

http://www.countmeout.ie/suspension/

The Holy See confirmed at the end of August that it was introducing changes to Canon Law and as a result it will no longer be possible to formally defect from the Catholic Church. This will not alter the fact that many people can defect from the Church, and continue to do so, albeit not through a formal process. This is a change that will affect the Church throughout the world. The Archdiocese of Dublin plans to maintain a register to note the expressed desire of those who wish to defect. Details will be communicated to those involved in the process when they are finalised. Last year 229 people formally defected from the Church through the Archdiocese of Dublin. 312 have done so, so far this year.

I Heart Internet

eyescreamcone wrote: »

You are either with them or against them.

If you offer support in any way (especially monetary) then you are supporting their views and values.

I never tire of pointing this out!!!

With who or against who?

My local parish community? Or the Mercy Sisters, etc? Are they all the same?

Does "the Church" have just one management and one bank account? Three bishops sign the cheques for everything?

floggg

JRant wrote: »

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the religious for you.

The amount of money these ****tards spend internationally opposing things like marriage equality, abortion, contraception etc., yet they couldn't give two ****s about people who suffered abuse as children at their hands.

It's own thing to allow it to happen in the first place - there are bad apples in every barrel and I assume the vast majority of priests and nuns are not abusers.

But giving the fingers to people who suffered abuse while supposedly in your care and protection is just reprehensible and disgusting.

And ever priest or nun not speaking out against this bull**** is complicit in that.

I Heart Internet

floggg wrote: »

The amount of money these ****tards spend internationally opposing things like marriage equality, abortion, contraception etc., yet.....

Flogg, could you provide links with details of any money that The Mercy Sisters, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, the Sisters of Charity and the Good Shepherd Sisters - or any other Irish based religious order spends on "opposing marriage equality, abortion, contraception, etc"?

Cienciano

Dravokivich wrote: »

He means you can't currently revoke your membership from the RCC.

The only church membership form that counts isn't your baptism cert. It's the census form. The church can claim 20 million members in ireland if they want. Every religion, from catholic to scientology inflates it's numbers.

humanji

I Heart Internet wrote: »

With who or against who?

My local parish community? Or the Mercy Sisters, etc? Are they all the same?

Does "the Church" have just one management and one bank account? Three bishops sign the cheques for everything?

Are they not all part of the Catholic Church?

eyescreamcone

I Heart Internet wrote: »

With who or against who?

My local parish community? Or the Mercy Sisters, etc? Are they all the same?

Does "the Church" have just one management and one bank account? Three bishops sign the cheques for everything?

They are all in it together (and you by the sound of it!)
Every parish, convent, etc. right up to the Vatican (Bank)

If you offer any part of the RCC monster comfort - you are effectively supporting their views, values and policies.

I Heart Internet

humanji wrote: »

Are they not all part of the Catholic Church?

Yes. But they are seperate entities within a loose umberella.

bumper234

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Yes. But they are seperate entities within a loose umberella.

In the same way bee's are individual but part of the hive.

floggg

I Heart Internet wrote: »

As I never tire of pointing out to people, the "Church" is not one entity.

Your local parish has less than zero control over any religious order, even within it's own parish boundaries.

**** that. Your local Catholic Church is still part of the Catholic Church. The are a "branch" of the one entity, with the head office in the Vatican.

The Vatican gets its authority and power from the submission of each and every local church around the world.

The local church may not be able to directly influence a given religious order, but cumulatively they can, acting through the big papa.

As long as every local priest and every local congregation says and does nothing while this sort of thing, and every other criminal, hateful, bigoted and harmful act or statement from the vatican, goes on they are complicit in the wrongdoing.

The Nazi party were evil but Hitler and co only gained power through the support of the masses.

eyescreamcone

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Yes. But they are seperate entities within a loose umberella.

United and powerful when they want to put on a show of strength.

And as slippery as a bag of snakes when they're on the run!!