Shops/Retail Businesses with no toilets

MadsL · 13-07-2013 4:35pm #1

Couple of threads have brought this up, US stores and businesses all have customer toilets. In Ireland it is much rarer. Should all businesses be required to provide toilet facilities, especially now that public toilets have all but disappeared.

No Pants · 13-07-2013 4:36pm

What's in it for them?

MadsL · 13-07-2013 4:37pm

More customers through the door?

LizT · 13-07-2013 4:38pm

No. People are animals and they would probably be wrecked.

My friend worked in Boots and they had a baby changing room, the key was available on request. One day someone went in to clean it and found a sh1t in the sink

MadsL · 13-07-2013 4:39pm

LizT wrote: »

No. People are animals and they would probably be wrecked.

My friend worked in Boots and they had a baby changing room, the key was available on request. One day someone went in to clean it and found a sh1t in the sink

So where do you propose people change babies? On the street?

Frosty McSnowballs · 13-07-2013 4:43pm

MadsL wrote: »

So where do you propose people change babies? On the street?

But you have no problem ignoring that someone sh1t in the sink....?

just_be_nice · 13-07-2013 4:46pm

I think that premises which serve food or beverages for consumption on the premises must by law have toilets for their customers.

I don't think that any other business should be obliged to offer public toilets.

If there are little or no public toilets then it's an issue for the local council.

It should not be the responsibility of private businesses to make up for the short-comings of the local council.

MadsL · 13-07-2013 4:46pm

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

But you have no problem ignoring that someone sh1t in the sink....?

Toilets need cleaning.

As someone who has had to clean customer toilets I have dealt with far worse than a shit in the sink. At least it was IN the sink.

The question remains where people are expected to change babies or go to the toilet if no-one provides toilets? The street?

MadsL · 13-07-2013 4:47pm

just_be_nice wrote: »

If there are little or no public toilets then it's an issue for the local council.

It should not be the responsibility of private businesses to make up for the short-comings of the local council.

What if they got a rates reduction?

LizT · 13-07-2013 4:49pm

MadsL wrote: »

So where do you propose people change babies? On the street?

Yes, that's completely what I'm saying there...

I'm just trying to illustrate that people abuse facilities.

Mick Murdock · 13-07-2013 4:49pm

Terrible idea. I work in retail and the last thing we'd want is to have to clean up after a load of scummy free loaders!

MagicMarker · 13-07-2013 4:50pm

just_be_nice wrote: »

I think that premises which serve food or beverages for consumption on the premises must by law have toilets for their customers.

I don't think that any other business should be obliged to offer public toilets.

If there are little or no public toilets then it's an issue for the local council.

It should not be the responsibility of private businesses to make up for the short-comings of the local council.

What about toilets for the employees?

MadsL · 13-07-2013 4:51pm

LizT wrote: »

Yes, that's completely what I'm saying there...

I'm just trying to illustrate that people abuse facilities.

Yes, they do. People also shoplift. See where I am going with that

Artful_Badger · 13-07-2013 4:51pm

All shops should have toilets for their staff. They should not be obliged to have them for customers. If its viable for the business to provide toilets then they will, particularly the larger stores but for the smaller ones it wouldnt be worth it.

MadsL · 13-07-2013 4:51pm

Mick Murdock wrote: »

Terrible idea. I work in retail and the last thing we'd want is to have to clean up after a load of scummy free loaders!

Crazy idea but employ a cleaner?

Skid X · 13-07-2013 4:52pm

I think Retail is in enough trouble already without making every shop build and service toilets.

clairefontaine · 13-07-2013 4:52pm

Yes where food is served.n

It should be up to the business outside of food service. Obviously if they want women with children to patronise them , they will do this. Women with kids do spend a considerable amount of money so it makes business sense to do this.

Frosty McSnowballs · 13-07-2013 4:53pm

MadsL wrote: »

Toilets need cleaning.

As someone who has had to clean customer toilets I have dealt with far worse than a shit in the sink. At least it was IN the sink.

The question remains where people are expected to change babies or go to the toilet if no-one provides toilets? The street?

Yes toilets need cleaning and so do sinks. Facilities that are provided by businesses are not there to be abused by the masses. It's no wonder many premises do not have customer toilets, as this is the stuff that goes on.

So, when you had to clean a toilet that had been left in a despicable manner, how did you feel about it?

I have never shunned a business because it did not have a toilet. In fact, if I did use a toilet that a business provided, and if I found a sh1t in a sink there, I'm sure it would actually put me off going to that shop.

just_be_nice · 13-07-2013 4:53pm

MadsL wrote: »

What if they got a rates reduction?

That would be a good incentive, but I would not like it to be a requirement.

For one it's just not going to be practical for every business to offer it. Then you have the issue of security, i.e. who is going in there, what are they doing (shooting up!!) Also they have to be maintained and cleaned.

I think it would be welcome to have more, but I would not like to see it being a requirement all businesses.

LizT · 13-07-2013 4:54pm

MadsL wrote: »

Crazy idea but employ a cleaner?

Why would shops want another wage to pay, along with the cost of installing and maintaining toilets? I doubt they'd see a huge increase in footfall from having toilets.

MadsL · 13-07-2013 4:55pm

Skid X wrote: »

I think Retail is in enough trouble already without making every shop build and service toilets.

It's a level playing field if they are all required to do it.

A stimulus package maybe? Better than a car scrappage scheme. Could give a grant to do it, and then abolish public toilets which cost councils a fortune.

just_be_nice · 13-07-2013 4:56pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

What about toilets for the employees?

It's already mandatory that there is a toilet for employees.

bumper234 · 13-07-2013 4:58pm

A toilet for public use in every shop = terrible idea. Maybe in shops over a certain size but you can't have one in small retail outlets unless you are thinking of letting the public use staff facilities?

MadsL · 13-07-2013 4:58pm

Dublin City Council (DCC) is appealing to businesses in the city centre to sign up to a public private partnership scheme that would allow members of the public to use their toilets.

Dublin businesses will be asked to open their facilities to people, even non-customers, due to the by-now almost complete absence of public toilets on Dublin's streets.

The city council is unable to afford the upkeep of permanent public facilities and provides just two temporary toilets which are only open at weekends and cater for men only. Located on Camden St and Westmoreland St in the centre, the portaloos cost the council about €50,000 annually.

http://dublin.wantedineurope.com/news/2001742/dublin-toilet-plan.html

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:00pm

LizT wrote: »

Why would shops want another wage to pay, along with the cost of installing and maintaining toilets? I doubt they'd see a huge increase in footfall from having toilets.

Many toilets in europe are attended with tips forming the wage for the employee.

MagicMarker · 13-07-2013 5:00pm

I think it's wise from a customer service perspective to provide those facilities if customers would spend a lot of time in the store. For instance I was in B&Q one time and, had they not had the facilities, I may have been in trouble, because I needed to go!

I don't think it's really necessary for small convenience stores.

Skid X · 13-07-2013 5:01pm

MadsL wrote: »

It's a level playing field if they are all required to do it.

A stimulus package maybe? Better than a car scrappage scheme. Could give a grant to do it, and then abolish public toilets which cost councils a fortune.

It's not a level playing field - Retailers already have huge overheads and can't compete with online sellers. This type of idea will only increase the already huge number of vacant shops in our towns and cities (And cause anyone brave open to open a new shop to think again).

bumper234 · 13-07-2013 5:01pm

MadsL wrote: »

http://dublin.wantedineurope.com/news/2001742/dublin-toilet-plan.html

So DCC won't open public toilets but expect retail outlets to let every tom, dick and junkie use theirs?

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:05pm

bumper234 wrote: »

So DCC won't open public toilets but expect retail outlets to let every tom, dick and junkie use theirs?

I'm pointing out the situation, not creating it.

At present we have the following.

No public toilets in Dublin when there used to be 60 in the city.
Businesses trying to restrict access to toilets "Customers Only" or "Staff Only"

What is the solution AH?

Irish Guitarist · 13-07-2013 5:06pm

No. There's most likely a supermarket nearby with toilets.

just_be_nice · 13-07-2013 5:07pm

MadsL wrote: »

http://dublin.wantedineurope.com/news/2001742/dublin-toilet-plan.html

That reflects very badly on Dublin City Council. I know that budgets are tight, but they are only trying to pass on problems that they don't want to deal with themselves.

Thread title and poll title are confusing! "Shops" with not toilets vs. Should all "businesses" be required to have toilets.

Frosty McSnowballs · 13-07-2013 5:07pm

Human pooper scoopers for all....

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:07pm

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

No. There's most likely a supermarket nearby with toilets.

Why should they be the only ones providing facilities?

bumper234 · 13-07-2013 5:07pm

MadsL wrote: »

I'm pointing out the situation, not creating it.

At present we have the following.

No public toilets in Dublin when there used to be 60 in the city.
Businesses trying to restrict access to toilets "Customers Only" or "Staff Only"

What is the solution AH?

DCC should reopen the public toilets on O'Connell street and near College green and have attendants in them during opening hours a small fee to use the facilities will help cover costs.

Mick Murdock · 13-07-2013 5:08pm

MadsL wrote: »

Many toilets in europe are attended with tips forming the wage for the employee.

Are you talking about toilets in retail stores or elsewhere?

If every store has toilets there will be little or no increase in footfall. Why bother paying a cleaner? Makes zero sense.

As for a toilet attendant working for tips only, retail stores don't want customers to feel obliged to pay tips to toilet attendants. Stupid idea.

It makes no sense. Simple.

Skid X · 13-07-2013 5:08pm

MadsL wrote: »

I'm pointing out the situation, not creating it.

At present we have the following.

No public toilets in Dublin when there used to be 60 in the city.
Businesses trying to restrict access to toilets "Customers Only" or "Staff Only"

What is the solution AH?

Most people seem to be able to manage a trip to the city even without having a toilet in every shop. It isn't an issue.

**Vai** · 13-07-2013 5:09pm

MadsL wrote: »

What is the solution AH?

Use pub toilets. Thats pretty much what people have been doing for years.

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:09pm

Skid X wrote: »

Most people seem to be able to manage a trip to the city even without having a toilet in every shop. It isn't an issue.

You have never used a toilet in a shop? I find that hard to believe.

Sound of Silence · 13-07-2013 5:10pm

Is it really the responsibility of businesses to make up for the absence of public toilets?

There are many occasions where the private sector seizes on the opportunity to provide services for the public when there is a dime to be made, but I think you will find that most businesses aren't exactly jumping at the opportunity to have random punters use their facilities.

I also imagine there would be quite an expense involved for those shop owners who are not lucky enough to have facilities installed to begin setting them up. Are we going to start providing grants?

If the absence of public toilets is truly an issue, then would it not be best left at the door of the Council than at the door of the local vegetable shop?

bumper234 · 13-07-2013 5:11pm

Skid X wrote: »

Most people seem to be able to manage a trip to the city even without having a toilet in every shop. It isn't an issue.

Totally agree with you City center you have Ilac, Jervis, St Stephens green shopping centers and many bars and restaurants with bathrooms available so why would small clothing or shoe retail shops need to have a public bathroom?

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:12pm

**Vai** wrote: »

Use pub toilets. Thats pretty much what people have been doing for years.

Yeah, that'll work until you run into Colm Meaney.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlorlsDJyV0

Skid X · 13-07-2013 5:12pm

MadsL wrote: »

You have never used a toilet in a shop? I find that hard to believe.

Restaurants, Pubs, McDonalds, Burger King, Shopping Centres - you don't have to be Bear Grylss to survive.

Hey, sometimes I just wait until I get home.

Frosty McSnowballs · 13-07-2013 5:12pm

MadsL wrote: »

Why should they be the only ones providing facilities?

Look,

It should be the city and county councils responsibility to provide facilities to the general public.

As of late, retailers, shopping centres and food places have been the default areas to bolt for when the turtle pops its head out.

It's a load of BS, the councils are taking the piss....or in this case, not taking the piss.

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:15pm

Skid X wrote: »

Restaurants, Pubs, McDonalds, Burger King, Shopping Centres - you don't have to be Bear Grylss to survive.

Hey, sometimes I just wait until I get home.

That's not an option for the weak bladdered, the sudden runs, the disabled or the elderly, frankly.

bumper234 · 13-07-2013 5:15pm

MadsL wrote: »

That's not an option for the weak bladdered, the sudden runs, the disabled or the elderly, frankly.

But the other several options he gave are.

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:18pm

bumper234 wrote: »

But the other several options he gave are.

So some retail businesses should carry the burden for others? Hardly seems fair.

Small town. Business A does the right thing and provides toilets. Business B does not.

Why should Business A suffer because they are civic minded?

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:20pm

Sound of Silence wrote: »

If the absence of public toilets is truly an issue, then would it not be best left at the door of the Council than at the door of the local vegetable shop?

How much do you propose adding to Property taxes to cover it?

bumper234 · 13-07-2013 5:23pm

MadsL wrote: »

So some retail businesses should carry the burden for others? Hardly seems fair.

Small town. Business A does the right thing and provides toilets. Business B does not.

Why should Business A suffer because they are civic minded?

Why should small business B have to go through the cost of providing a facility that MAY get used once a year? You do realise that staff are entitled to seperate facilities so using the staff toilet is not an option.

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:25pm

bumper234 wrote: »

Why should small business B have to go through the cost of providing a facility that MAY get used once a year? You do realise that staff are entitled to seperate facilities so using the staff toilet is not an option.

I'd propose legislation that would make it a requirement that new planning applications for retail include public toilet facilities.

Would that be OK?

Grasso Birdo Svites Multo · 13-07-2013 5:26pm

Abdolutely not. A private enterprise should be able to operate how and.when they want. Any cjanges they make should be up to them and be a financial benefit to the store. Shops are already laying off staff .. they wont be able to afford to hire someone to clean. That system would only make sense if we adopted the mainland euro system of outsourcing cleaning to someone else who in turn charges 20 cent for use of the.facilities .. regardless of whether yyou are a customer or not. However irish people would have an aversion to this.

MadsL · 13-07-2013 5:28pm

<---- Christ, usernames are getting weirder.

Welcome to boards Mr Grasso Birdo Svites Multo!

Shops/Retail Businesses with no toilets

Should all businesses be required to have toilets 242 votes

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