Petition to allow female pros ride the Tour.

Zorba

Anyone seen this, a petition by some professional female cyclist to allow them to enter the Tour de France next year, not sure how it would work, like surely it wouldn't be a level playing field but would be great to see it all the same.

I've signed up anyway will see where it goes.

http://www.xtri.com/features/detail/284-itemId.511715898.html

gordongekko

Rubbish. What other sports allow men and women compete against other

WhatNowForUs?

If they have 9 professionals who are willing to take part and can get sponsorship why not see how they get on.

Squidgy Black

I think it's a silly idea, as the women's races are well established and fairly competitive, the problem is that they don't get the same coverage and sponsorship, but that's the same in most sports.

I can't think of any sports where men and women compete against each other, apart from mixed doubles tennis/badminton.

IM0

eh they have their own tour de france!

Darkglasses

Do they get to just jump straight into the most prestigious bike race or do they have to earn it fair and square first?

Zorba

It's all very vague at the moment they are top pro women who started the petition, think the main problem is they don't get enough coverage in their own races whereas the men's get lots and lots of coverage.

Another thing would they have to shorten the stages for the women ?

Think it's a good idea in principal but how it would work in practice i'm not so sure, also as Darkglasses said will they have to earn their place like the men's teams do based on points accumulated over the year ?

theSHU

Silly idea.

Esroh

Are they not asking for a womens race to be added just like some of the classics.

The caravan starts 2 hours before the race so why not let a 'Ladies field' start 2 hours before.

Squidgy Black

Esroh wrote: »

Are they not asking for a womens race to be added just like some of the classics.

The caravan starts 2 hours before the race so why not let a 'Ladies field' start 2 hours before.

There was a Tour Cycliste Féminin, but it couldn't get funding or sponsorship and had to be cancelled. Also, the stages were much shorter and the tour only had less than 10 stages.

Captain Havoc

Zorba wrote: »

Another thing would they have to shorten the stages for the women ?

I don't see why, the idea that women can't compete at endurance sports was left behind in the seventies. I don't see why women couldn't compete against men by the rules of the sport. It would take a while as women sports are generally not as well funded as mens and cycling is no different. I wouldn't feel comfortable playing soccer against a women as my I often stick out my arm to block a player outrunning me (naughty, I know) but racing against a woman at club league races has never bothered me.

j@utis

stetyrrell wrote: »

I can't think of any sports where men and women compete against each other, apart from mixed doubles tennis/badminton.

Show jumping. it's an Olympic sport too.

Beasty

stetyrrell wrote: »

I can't think of any sports where men and women compete against each other, apart from mixed doubles tennis/badminton.

As Esroh says this is not a suggestion that men and women race against each other, simply that they race the same route on the same days.

It may well be that the stages would be shortened but it would not be too difficult starting the women's stages 50km or so down the road at around the same time the men's stage starts with the women finishing ahead of the mens. It would add to the spectacle and provide a bit more suffering for spectators to witness (and they will be camping on the mountains anyway)

Zorba

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I don't see why, the idea that women can't compete at endurance sports was left behind in the seventies. I don't see why women couldn't compete against men by the rules of the sport. It would take a while as women sports are generally not as well funded as mens and cycling is no different. I wouldn't feel comfortable playing soccer against a women as my I often stick out my arm to block a player outrunning me (naughty, I know) but racing against a woman at club league races has never bothered me.

I've no problem racing against women either and i'm sure plenty of them could kick my arse but are women's races not slower average speed than the men's ?

Esroh

stetyrrell wrote: »

There was a Tour Cycliste Féminin, but it couldn't get funding or sponsorship and had to be cancelled. Also, the stages were much shorter and the tour only had less than 10 stages.

Thats the point, The TCF was a seperate entity and could not survive.

If it was running side by side every thing re logistics and tv would be in place. After that 'If you build it they will come' might just encourage the sponsors to sign up

Captain Havoc

Zorba wrote: »

I've no problem racing against women either and i'm sure plenty of them could kick my arse but are women's races not slower average speed than the men's ?

I think if you had mixed racing, you'd see some women's averages increasing. Women's sports play second fiddle to men's. How much did Rabobank pump into men's sections compared to what they pumped into women's sections? The best coaches want to get paid and as there's more money in men's they'll always be swayed that way. I would imagine given the equal opportunity in cycling, a few women would be able to make it.

Mycroft H

I can't see the problem. If they're good enough let them at it.


better than looking at sweaty men as well...

Beasty

Guys, read it again - this is not about "mixed racing" so there's no point discussing it as if it were;)

Darkglasses

Different proposition entirely. Sure, why not. As long as the stages aren't altered to accommodate it.

IM0

Esroh wrote: »

Are they not asking for a womens race to be added just like some of the classics.

The caravan starts 2 hours before the race so why not let a 'Ladies field' start 2 hours before.

or scrap the caravan and just have the womens race INSTEAD :pac:

IM0

anyway no itll never work, it would have to be before or after and my mean be COMPLETED start to finish before or after the mens race which wont happen, there are only so many hours in the day and roads can only be closed for so long too. only way I can see working is just let them compete AGAINST the men

el tel

If they competed against the menI really don't think they'd make the cut off timer in the big stages. They deserve high profile and well supported races of their own. Running them concurrently with the men's races would be the way to go. I could see the crazy spectator loons being complete pests to them though.

IM0

el tel wrote: »

If they competed against the menI really don't think they'd make the cut off timer in the big stages. They deserve high profile and well supported races of their own. Running them concurrently with the men's races would be the way to go. I could see the crazy spectator loons being complete pests to them though.

then they would get dropped....like the men. fairs fair. you want to compete with men then compete under the same rules

Beasty

IM0 wrote: »

anyway no itll never work, it would have to be before or after and my mean be COMPLETED start to finish before or after the mens race which wont happen, there are only so many hours in the day and roads can only be closed for so long too. only way I can see working is just let them compete AGAINST the men

Simple, and I've already mentioned how it could readily be accommodated

Start at the same time 50km up the road - end within half an hour or so. Maximum extra road closures probably an hour or so (just have the "caravan" a bit closer to the women's race. The biggest issue would probably be the extra TV coverage it would entail (meaning more cameras, motorbikes etc)

IM0

Beasty wrote: »

Simple, and I've already mentioned how it could readily be accommodated

Start at the same time 50km up the road - end within half an hour or so. Maximum extra road closures probably an hour or so (just have the "caravan" a bit closer to the women's race. The biggest issue would probably be the extra TV coverage it would entail (meaning more cameras, motorbikes etc)

well there would be no one watching the womens race after the mens race comes on TV and bear in mind modern sport is about selling sponsorship. no audience = no sponsorship, so like I say itll never work commercially which means it will never work

el tel

IM0 wrote: »

then they would get dropped....like the men. fairs fair. you want to compete with men then compete under the same rules

But they don't want to compete against the men!

It's you that would want them to compete against the men.

IM0

el tel wrote: »

But they don't want to compete against the men!

It's you that would want them to compete against the men.

that s the only way it will work though so. you need to understand modern sport isnt sport its an advertising business. there will not be enough tv audience to watch the womens race after all they have already have had their own TDF before and it was pulled for this exact reason

ednwireland

Beasty wrote: »

Simple, and I've already mentioned how it could readily be accommodated

not enough money in it simple as, women dont associate sponsorship with products that they are buying, so maybelline say spends millions a year on advertising but doesnt sponsor sports( as far as i know). until that changes ....

Beasty

The signatories of this have timed it perfectly given Pat's recent interest in women's votes racing and Cookson also making it a key element of his manifesto. Basically this is a challenge to the pair of them to show they really are prepared to give the women's aspect of the sport the support it deserves.

eoghan84

The tour of Flanders happens on the same day for the women as the men and it works out very well, so does the fleche wallonne. would add to the sport of cycling to have a womens Tour competing several hours beforehand. wish it could happen, terrible shame for the women they dont get to experience the Tour. luckily they have the Giro Rosa/Donne but that was shortened by two days this year, and there was uncertainty almost up to the end about the race route

eoghan84

in the trailer for the documentary 'share the road' theres a quote from Pat saying that womens racing wasnt ready for a minimum wage... wonder if he's changed his mind on that? if only the uci could livestream the world cups that could make a big difference to getting the racing known and building up interest. races like plouay gp swede the china one too...aswell as the tour of flanders, there was only about 5mins footage shown...

nak

I think it's a great idea. Most of the classics have a women's race before the men's and that works well. Delighted to see Marianne Vos in the Taxc advert on Eurosport. Greatest cyclist of all time in my opinion. Jeannie Longo did a lap of honour in Paris with Stephen Roche when they won the tour. Would love to see that happen again.

High Nellie

Esroh wrote: »

Are they not asking for a womens race to be added just like some of the classics.

The caravan starts 2 hours before the race so why not let a 'Ladies field' start 2 hours before.

Because then they would be just a support act.

eoghan84

ya ok maybe some would see it as a support act but womens races have suffered the fall out from the doping scandal more than mens, so even if they were racing mad early, they just want to race...the koppenbergcross for women starts mad early think its at half eight or something nuts...but its a start just to be able to race

ya Marianne Vos is a legend

gctest50

BX 19 wrote: »

I can't see the problem. If they're good enough let them at it.
.

You'd never know ...

"In 1967, she set a new 12-hour time trial record of 277.25 miles[2] – a mark that surpassed the men’s record of the time by 0.73 miles and was not superseded by a man until 1969.[3] While setting the record she caught and passed Mike McNamara who was on his way to setting the men's record at 276.52 miles "

Beryl Burton

Beasty

High Nellie wrote: »

Because then they would be just a support act.

And?

Basically this is about giving women's racing more profile. This would hopefully lead to more, including additional sponsors and larger financial rewards. Look at the way women's soccer has taken off (and compare it to where it was before they had their own World Cups and European Championships). It's not as big as the male equivalent, but it's a hell of a lot bigger than it was 15 years ago (particularly outside Europe)

theSHU

nak wrote: »

I think it's a great idea. Most of the classics have a women's race before the men's and that works well. Delighted to see Marianne Vos in the Taxc advert on Eurosport. Greatest cyclist of all time in my opinion. Jeannie Longo did a lap of honour in Paris with Stephen Roche when they won the tour. Would love to see that happen again.

Take tomorrow's stage; how can you have another 10 teams with their buses, cars etc finish at the top of Mont Ventoux?? The idea is dumb and logisticaly impossible.

eoghan84

theSHU wrote: »

Take tomorrow's stage; how can you have another 10 teams with their buses, cars etc finish at the top of Mont Ventoux?? The idea is dumb and logisticaly impossible.

dont worry about the details, when theres a will, theres a way

nak

Women's teams generally don't have buses due to budget constraints (think Rabobank inherited the men's old one). The men usually have to ride back down to the buses anyway on a mountain top finish.

petethedrummer

If you look at any sport where the popularity of men's and women's sport is on a par, it is where their schedules are intertwined. Tennis, Athletics, Track Cycling, BMX, Swimming, Gymnastics, most Olympic sports. Of course there will be exceptions.

I agree that they should run women's cycling either the day before or a few hours earlier, depending on logistics.

Aoibheann

In its current inception, the UCI Elite Men's World Tour has 29 races on its calendar. The Elite Women's World Cup has a mere 8. Anything that can be done to narrow this ridiculous gap sounds good to me! Completely agree on the above re: intertwining the calendars. The Flèche Wallonne Féminine and the Tour of Flanders are two of the most popular female races as a result of same. The Giro Donne is almost an afterthought, and barely went ahead this year.

I just hope that the victor of the UCI election is serious about making changes, but I can't see it being used as anything other than an election ploy.

eoghan84

Aoibheann wrote: »

In its current inception, the UCI Elite Men's World Tour has 29 races on its calendar. The Elite Women's World Cup has a mere 8. Anything that can be done to narrow this ridiculous gap sounds good to me! Completely agree on the above re: intertwining the calendars. The Flèche Wallonne Féminine and the Tour of Flanders are two of the most popular female races as a result of same. The Giro Donne is almost an afterthought, and barely went ahead this year.

I just hope that the victor of the UCI election is serious about making changes, but I can't see it being used as anything other than an election ploy.

hopefully there will be some progress. from the 2013 worlds on the plan is equal prize money for men and women. Gilbert won 16,000e last yr, Marianne won half

redzerredzer

I wish the ladies tour all the best and would be delighted for it to take off.
However, not at the cost of any of the men's teams.
I know it's not planned that they are in the same race but if it was decided that only a certain amount of team cars, busses and riders could be on the roads on one day.
It would be very unfair to drop smaller teams or lower amount of team riders to accommodate the logistics of arranging a ladies TDF.
It was disgraceful when struggling male professional golfers were not invited to some PGA events so the sponcers could get cheap exposure for inviting female players. These males were better golfers so should not have been left out.

On another point. How many of you would actually watch a ladies tour? Would you stay in for the day? Would you rush home for it? Would you series record it while at work?

Darkglasses

redzerredzer wrote: »

On another point. How many of you would actually watch a ladies tour? Would you stay in for the day? Would you rush home for it? Would you series record it while at work?

I currently watch absolutely every minute of TDF that I can (pretty much all of it this year bar 2 or 3 stages). Would only watch maybe the 2 hardest stages of a women's Tour.

Part of the problem is that I assume Marianne Vos is even more ahead of the rest than Froomey is.

eoghan84

redzerredzer wrote: »

I wish the ladies tour all the best and would be delighted for it to take off.
However, not at the cost of any of the men's teams.
I know it's not planned that they are in the same race but if it was decided that only a certain amount of team cars, busses and riders could be on the roads on one day.
It would be very unfair to drop smaller teams or lower amount of team riders to accommodate the logistics of arranging a ladies TDF.
It was disgraceful when struggling male professional golfers were not invited to some PGA events so the sponcers could get cheap exposure for inviting female players. These males were better golfers so should not have been left out.

On another point. How many of you would actually watch a ladies tour? Would you stay in for the day? Would you rush home for it? Would you series record it while at work?

dont worry AG2R, Jean Delatour and Sojasun will always be around!

ya Id stay in and watch it, definitely. I rushed home to watch the women's cyclocross worlds, it ended up being a one woman show, but you get that with cyclocross in general, not just the womens discipline. I download the Giro stages too the past two years. I followed the live ticker of the fleche too, not footage available. did you see Vos' close call at the Giro? http://vimeo.com/69596492

eoghan84

Darkglasses wrote: »

I currently watch absolutely every minute of TDF that I can (pretty much all of it this year bar 2 or 3 stages). Would only watch maybe the 2 hardest stages of a women's Tour.

Part of the problem is that I assume Marianne Vos is even more ahead of the rest than Froomey is.

did you not notice that she finished in 7th at the Giro and also well down at the stage race in the basque country?

Darkglasses

eoghan84 wrote: »

did you not notice that she finished in 7th at the Giro and also well down at the stage race in the basque country?

Nope, I actually haven't the first clue about women's racing, she's just the only one I can name outside of track racing.

Henlars67

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I think if you had mixed racing, you'd see some women's averages increasing. Women's sports play second fiddle to men's. How much did Rabobank pump into men's sections compared to what they pumped into women's sections? The best coaches want to get paid and as there's more money in men's they'll always be swayed that way. I would imagine given the equal opportunity in cycling, a few women would be able to make it.

It's ridiculous to suggest that they could compete on a par with men.
The physical differences between the genders are far too much for them to overcome.
To suggest a woman could go to a mountain top finish up Alpe d'Huez or the Galibier in a group of the race favourites without being pumped to her gills with substances is absolutely ridiculous.
That's not sexist. It's just genetics.

But, that isn't what this petition is for. They want a separate race on the same days as the men's race and I'd be all for that. I see no reason why it wouldn't capture the imagination of cycling fans and in time become very popular.

Logistically it would create some problems for the organisers with so many different teams to be sorted with accommodation etc, however that is something that could be overcome relatively easily.

LennoxR

The idea that women would race against men is pointless because when both are at elite level women physically can't compete with men. Granted that's not actually what they're going for apparently despite the misleading title of the petition.

So ok the idea is that women and men share the same road, like they do in a marathon, but race against their own field?
Mmm not sure. If they raced at the same time, such a big bunch would be even more dangerous than the Tour already is. In a marathon elite runners and leisure runners also share the same course, but can you imagine recommending that, say the Etape du Tour and the actual Tour share the same road? Of course not.

If they raced the stages on the same day, but at staggered times? I just don't think logistically it would work. But if it's workable I don't see why not. They deserve coverage and recognition.

Jellybaby1

gordongekko wrote: »

Rubbish. What other sports allow men and women compete against other

Mixed doubles in tennis, badminton, table tennis. Also, aren't there female & male jockeys who take part in the same races. Dressage. Show jumping. Possibly rally driving too, might be other sports too. Its not unknown.

MrCreosote

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Mixed doubles in tennis, badminton, table tennis. Also, aren't there female & male jockeys who take part in the same races. Dressage. Show jumping. Possibly rally driving too, might be other sports too. Its not unknown.

Chrissie Wellington in long distance triathlon would routinely finish in the top 10 overall. In endurance sports the gap between men and women tends to narrow the longer they are.

A lot of latent sexism in some of the posts here. Maybe the reason people don't know anything about women's pro cycling is because there is so little of it, and the UCI have been utterly negligent in developing it.