Craft Beer - What beers qualify?

Lux23

Hey there. My boyfriend has recently opened a bar and he just has the usual suspects on tap.

Now that's fine for most punters, but we get the occasional guy asking about craft beer.

What beers would you guys recommend that (a) will satisfy the more discerning beer drinker, but (b) would actually be a good seller.

We can't afford to have half used beer kegs sitting in our cold room, so your advice would be appreciated.

The bar is located in an area with a very mixed population so we need to be careful not to alienate either side.

the beer revolu

There is no real definition of Craft beer. It means different things to different people. Many people when they look for "craft" beer mean they want an Irish made beer brewed my a small independent brewery or microbrewery.
Others might mean any beer made by a non mainstream brewery - any international microbrewery. To other it just means beer that they like.

If you were to broaden the choice of beer in your bar, please don't go down the road of getting in half a dozen international lagers and thinking you've ticked lots of boxes - you haven't - you just have another six lagers to add the the handful you already have.

For something on draught, I'd recommend something like Metalman Pale Ale from Waterford or O' Hara's Pale Ale from Carlow. Trouble Brewing Sabotage from Kildare could be an option too. I don't know where the pub is - it is also a good idea to support your local brewery - people like that.

A safer bet would be to stock some bottles - this should be risk free as any wholesaler worth their salt will refund any bottles that don't sell for you. Again, I'd stick with Irish beers to start - if they move you can expand.

You should also have one decent weissbier - I'd recommend Schneiderweiss or Weihenstaphaner.

Depending on where you are, "craft" beer drinkers may be a very small minority but if no other pub in your area caters for them, then you have a Unique Selling Point. If I was living in a town where only one pub served something other than the usual suspects - that's the pub I'd be in.

BeerNut

Lux23 wrote: »

but (b) would actually be a good seller.

We can't afford to have half used beer kegs sitting in our cold room, so your advice would be appreciated.

Other than the ones with massive marketing campaigns behind them, no beer is going to sell itself. The bar has to do it, by trained, knowledgeable and enthusiastic staff plus good point-of-sale information.

I think pale ale is the area where the craft breweries are furthest ahead of the mainstream ones, so a tap with Metalman Pale Ale, Galway Hooker or O'Hara's Pale Ale is what I'd recommend, starting out.

the beer revolu wrote:

A safer bet would be to stock some bottles

True, but only if they're priced in line with the draught alternatives. Bottles which are madly more expensive than draught for no reason are much less likely to move.

adamski8

O haras ipa is the best option id say. Im sure if you wantes to expand your range you could get a good deal after on their other beers. however if its just 1 tap then hooker and metalman would also be great options. Getting an irish brewer would be wise

I'm always happy if a pub has metalman, Galway hooker or 8 degrees in stock.

twerg_85

O Hara's IPA would be the one for me. Metalman also a good suggestion.

I don't like it personally, but Galway Hooker has a great following and is an easy to drink beer (might convert some of the regular drinkers too, or at least shouldn't offend them if they try it).

I'd agree with the bottles suggestion. A good non-Irish beer to start with could be Sierra Nevada.

F.

Ravelleman

Metalman and O'Haras IPA are the obvious options, as other have said.

O'Haras Red might also be an option for those that don't go for the big hop flavours of many pale ales and IPA.

Lux23

Thanks for the advice lads, we are just going to get bottles in O'Hara's pale ale and Edelstoff, the latter because we really like it ourselves!

We are in Smithfield/Stoneybatter area so there are two bars nearby that sell lots of craft beers so we don't really want to step on their toes.

What I am going to look into is getting a beer that noone else has. From a homemade brewer even.

I will be back for more advice soon no doubt.

Slainte

the beer revolu

O' H PA and Edelstoff is a reasonable start - just try to keep the prices reasonable.
No bar has a monopoly on selling any beer - stocking all the beer you want is not stepping on anyone's toes and would not be regarded as such by any reasonable publican.
You'd run into legal issues selling home brew - big legal issues.
I'd say the only way you'll get something that no one else has would be to get it brewed specifically for you (you'd need to get through a lot) or import it yourself.
See how you get on with those bottles, then maybe look at getting a draught in.
The handy thing about having two beer bars close by is not only the fact that you'll have a market for craft beer but it also means you'll have no trouble getting deliveries.

bennyob

I would go with the metalman in the head to head agains o'haras ipa. Both are a smashing beer but at 5.2%, the o'haras wouldn't be as sessionable as the metalman.

There also may be a higher cost due to the extra alcohol content (im open to correction here).

irish_goat

I work in the B&C and Metalman is our best selling beer, by a good bit. Galway Hooker is up there as well. A large part of that is down to the fact that the staff all love Metalman so if anyone asks for a recommendation they nearly always suggest it. Personally I'd say I shift at least a keg of Metalman each week on my own.

You should have no problem selling craft beer in the Smithfield/Stoneybatter area. Mulligans, The Cobblestone, Dice Bar and Drinkstore aren't surviving there for no reason.

As the Beernut says though, staff knowledge is crucial. Convincing your staff to drink the stuff is half the battle. Get them interested, teach them about how craft beer is made, how it differs from the bland, industrial stuff and feck it, promote craft because it's Irish and keeps a bit of money in the country. If the staff are interested in the beer(which they should be) sales will come a lot easier.

From a business point of view, craft is good for you. More and more people are talking about how they'd rather sit at home with a few cans rather than pay extra in the pub. That matters less with craft beer drinkers, for 2 reasons, first of all, craft beer can't be bought in the offy for next to nothing so there's less savings to be made and second of all, a lot of craft is only available on draught, in certain pubs. You get a few regulars drinking the likes of Metalman and you'll become one of the few places they can go to get their favourite.

O'Hara's IPA and Edelstoff are good choices although be careful with the price. You'll not get too many sales of O'Hara's bottles if it's a euro more expensive than a pint (and less volume), especially if Mulligans and the Cobblestone are a few minutes away.

I'd be happy to guide you through a tasting of different craft beers if you want to call up the B&C.

irish_goat

bennyob wrote: »

There also may be a higher cost due to the extra alcohol content (im open to correction here).

Slightly, although from what I've seen most pubs absorb the extra cost themselves (or don't realise there is one).

Lux23

I should point out that our staff is currently just me and my boyfriend. We don't have the funds for staff unfortunately! That's why craft beers are a risk for us, because we got lots of support from Bulmers and Diageo initially. We have to pay a deposit to some of the craft beer wholesalers on top of what we purchase. And we have to pay for the glasses too, whereas we managed to get Diageo glasses free and Bulmers want to keep us sweet given our location so they have offered us lots of stuff. We have to take it as we are literally only a week away from having to close the place, so we need that help.

Understandably, the microbreweries just don't have the funds to support us in the same way. But we know we have to offer something like that.

Lux23

bennyob wrote: »

I would go with the metalman in the head to head agains o'haras ipa. Both are a smashing beer but at 5.2%, the o'haras wouldn't be as sessionable as the metalman.

There also may be a higher cost due to the extra alcohol content (im open to correction here).

That's really interesting, was reading about sessionable recently so Metalman maybe a better option.

Losty Dublin

Lux, fair play to you both for being willing to take the plunge on quality local beers. You'd be pleasantly shocked as to how many decent city centre bars stock craft beers; stepping on toes of Mulligans etc will not be an issue.

I'll second Galway Hooker, Metalman and O'Hara's IPA and Red as well. These sell well and in bottles are safe bets for you early on; they are also well set up to supply draught should you wish to take the next step. Franscian Well will be also worth a look in a few months and Trouble Brewing have some great brews as well, Dark Arts Porter probably being their best beer.

When you get stocked up we should all call up and appraise your range

squonk

Really not a fan of Metalman's stuff myself. I've had a few and everything I had was awful. O'Hara's and Hooker though i would drink til the cows come home! I'm very happy in any pub where I can get bottles of O'Haras or Hooker. Helvic Gold is dungarvan's best beer IMHO which is available in bottles. Let us know where the pub is and the name. I'll stop in next time I'm in Dublin!

adamski8

squonk wrote: »

Really not a fan of Metalman's stuff myself. I've had a few and everything I had was awful. O'Hara's and Hooker though i would drink til the cows come home! I'm very happy in any pub where I can get bottles of O'Haras or Hooker. Helvic Gold is dungarvan's best beer IMHO which is available in bottles. Let us know where the pub is and the name. I'll stop in next time I'm in Dublin!

Are you talking about metalmans main pale ale or the seasonal specials? id nearly agree with you about their non regulars

squonk

I've had their IPA, and 1 or two of their specials. Everything I've had so far makes me avoid the brand like the plague at this stage.

Miguel_Sanchez

Can I ask what the name of the bar is?

I'd love to drop in and support a new bar in the area.

Personally I love Walsh's and Mulligan's more than my liver approves of but always happy to check out a new runner in the batter.

Lux23

Sent you a PM, didnt want to get in trouble on the boards.

the beer revolu

adamski8 wrote: »

Are you talking about metalmans main pale ale or the seasonal specials? id nearly agree with you about their non regulars

Windjammer is fantastic - especially the first incarnation of it and the Chameleon Garnet was lovely too. I am a fan.

Lovely Bloke

Lux23 wrote: »

Sent you a PM, didnt want to get in trouble on the boards.

Drop me a PM too, we do be down in Mulligan's a good bit so wouldn't mind dropping into yourselves.

Ravelleman

the beer revolu wrote: »

Windjammer is fantastic - especially the first incarnation of it and the Chameleon Garnet was lovely too. I am a fan.

Windjammer is one of the more unusual Irish beers I've tried. I thought it had a kind of mushroom-y quality. Chameleon Garnet was also good.

Lux23

I had a tasting session today and I am now more confused than ever about the craft beer thing.

Out of nine beers, I found only one palatable. I really don't want to sell a beer I wouldn't drink myself. I know that sounds odd, but I can drink and enjoy lots of alcoholic beverages but I just can't find a craft beer I like.* Maybe my palate is undeveloped, but some of these were like drinking a flat, warm can of coke with ash in it.

*Apart from Edelstoff

the beer revolu

Lux23 wrote: »

I had a tasting session today and I am now more confused than ever about the craft beer thing.

Out of nine beers, I found only one palatable. I really don't want to sell a beer I wouldn't drink myself. I know that sounds odd, but I can drink and enjoy lots of alcoholic beverages but I just can't find a craft beer I like.* Maybe me palate is undeveloped, but some of these were like drinking a flat, warm can of coke with ash in it.

*Apart from Edelstoff

What beers did you try?

Lux23

Sierra Nevada
Trouble Brewing
Punk
Dungarven something or other


I had three of the first brand, two of the second, two of the third and I could stomach the Dungarven one but so far the only one I like is Edelstoff. And I only had a small bit if each but the head on me this morning is woeful.

I'm trying O'Haras today/tomorrow.

drumswan

Lux23 wrote: »

Punk

You think Punk IPA tastes like flat warm coke with ash in it? Really?

If thats your taste description of one of the most highly rated beers in this part of the world Id think twice about what you are doing tbh.

BaZmO*

drumswan wrote: »

You think Punk IPA tastes like flat warm coke with ash in it? Really?

If thats your taste description of one of the most highly rated beers in this part of the world Id think twice about what you are doing tbh.

Yeah, not to seem like I'm having a go at you, but your description is fairly damning of some really quality beers of the ilk, and as such, maybe you should just stick to selling lagers.

ASJ112

You don't have to love all the craft beers, you're a business so its more important to determine whether they will make you money. Where does your bf stand on the craft beer situation ?

Maybe somebody has the link, but craft beer sales have increased by around 20% while macro's are decreasing. It's only going to get bigger here over the years, so I'd make the most of it before everybody else does.

Putting in an O'Hara's stout and IPA tap would be the safest and best option to start with imo. Some people hate Punk IPA so it's not just you, but plenty of us here have drunk a hell of a lot of it.


I think you really need to go visit a load of different bars and determine where you want to fit in between craft/macro beers.

Losty Dublin

OP, what drinks do you enjoy/drink is a better question.

Lux23

Losty Dublin wrote: »

OP, what drinks do you enjoy/drink is a better question.

Heineken, Guinness, Carlsberg, Smithwicks if I have a pint. Most of the time I drink wine or vodka/soda though. I don't like anything sweet really.

Oh I like Peroni and Paulaner too, but never got why Erdinger was so popular.

The Punk ones were ok, it was Trouble Brewing that tasted the worst to me.

I think it's just that they taste like beer should really and I'm just too used to the mass produced taste.

adamski8

the beer revolu wrote: »

Windjammer is fantastic - especially the first incarnation of it and the Chameleon Garnet was lovely too. I am a fan.

It is, like their alternator two. Camelon range isnt nice

SHANAbert

Merry's Gastro Pub in Dungarvan has a cask of Dungarvin brewing co's Comeragh challenger and also Helvick Gold. It's 50/50 every time i've been in there whether they have any left are not. Both amazing beers imo.

irish_goat

ASJ112 wrote: »

Maybe somebody has the link, but craft beer sales have increased by around 20% while macro's are decreasing. It's only going to get bigger here over the years, so I'd make the most of it before everybody else does.

Up 55%.

On a side note about beer sales, in the offy where I work craft/specialty beers went from 2% of our beer sales in 2007 to just over 10% last year. Way of the future, just like wine people are demanding more choice.

Colonel Sanders

I think selling craft if you don't actually like it will be challenging

Imagine a punter asking you for a recommendation and your reply is "well this one's popular but I think it tastes awful"

Lux23

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I think selling craft if you don't actually like it will be challenging

Imagine a punter asking you for a recommendation and your reply is "well this one's popular but I think it tastes awful"

That's it, so we are going to sell ones that we like or at least know people that like it. Plus we don't get many people asking for them yet. Fanciest thing so far was Koppaberg.

Someone did ask for Malibu at the weekend and I wanted to throw them out.

adamski8

Lux23 wrote: »

That's it, so we are going to sell ones that we like or at least know people that like it. Plus we don't get many people asking for them yet. Fanciest thing so far was Koppaberg.

Someone did ask for Malibu at the weekend and I wanted to throw them out.

God thats seems a terrible attitude for someone wanting to sell things. People like different things. I dont like whiskey but i would still stock good quality ones at reasonable prices if i owned a pub. I wont say no sorry i dont like that drink, get out, your barred.

You have gotten good advice on this thread and, you seem to not want to take it. You clearly havent gotten a taste (yet at least) for good craft beer. You might not be in business long as it seems you dont know/appreciate your product (potential it may be) that well.

adamski8

Lux23 wrote: »

That's it, so we are going to sell ones that we like or at least know people that like it. Plus we don't get many people asking for them yet. Fanciest thing so far was Koppaberg.

Someone did ask for Malibu at the weekend and I wanted to throw them out.

God thats seems a terrible attitude for someone wanting to sell things. People like different things. I dont like whiskey but i would still stock good quality ones at reasonable prices if i owned a pub. I wont say no sorry i dont like that drink, get out, your barred.

You have gotten good advice on this thread and, you seem to not want to take it. You clearly havent gotten a taste (yet at least) for good craft beer. You might not be in business long as it seems you dont know/appreciate your product (potential it may be) that well.

Lux23

Oh I am grateful for the advice, but we have a limited cash flow and are trying to to do the best we can with it. I can understand how it comes across, but it's just frustrating when there are so many brands on the market. Plus who only likes Malibu, come on!

I mean I want to sell something I will drink myself. But I get your point re the whiskey.

minidazzler

Lux23 wrote: »

Oh I am grateful for the advice, but we have a limited cash flow and are trying to to do the best we can with it. I can understand how it comes across, but it's just frustrating when there are so many brands on the market. Plus who only likes Malibu, come on!

I mean I want to sell something I will drink myself. But I get your point re the whiskey.

I'm gonna +1 on this, Malibu barely sells in huge bars, never mind in a tiny pub trying to find it's feet. That said, wait til Tesco have it on offer and get 1 bottle for the next time someone wants it. Presumably ye have some of IDL's spirits anyway, they'll never really notice if they check.

Big Nasty

Some great advice here in relation to what to stock but just sticking in a couple new taps and throwing a case of 'alternative' beer in your bottle cooler is not gonna work. You have products to sell therefore you have to become a salesman. You have to push the products, offer customers (small) free samples and put up blackboards above the bar announcing the craft beers you stock, their strength, price and where they come from - just like you see in every bar that stocks / specialises in craft beer.

Best of luck with the new venture!

noby

OP, I think it's good that you went and tasted some beers, but might I suggest a guided tasting by someone who can talk you through the styles and flavours. You don't have to love the beers, but having an understanding of them will help you to sell them.

BonnieSituation

Was it ever confirmed what bar this was?

The Grange Inn perhaps?

irish_goat

Zombie thread. I think everyone will have moved on by now. Closed.