Budget 2014 - €3 billion adjustment

Larbre34

We're told its another €3 billion euro in hikes and cuts planned as the next increment in austerity, for Budget 2014

Some Fine Gaeler's like Hayes, Varadkar and Bruton have made soundings that they feel the 'squeezed middle' has been taxed enough, albeit with water charges yet to take effect...

So, the question is, where is the €3 billion going to come from? Who and what gets the hit? Could this be the most unpalatable stuff yet?

Discuss........

Godge

Larbre34 wrote: »

We're told its another €3 billion euro in hikes and cuts planned as the next increment in austerity, for Budget 2014

Some Fine Gaeler's like Hayes, Varadkar and Bruton have made soundings that they feel the 'squeezed middle' has been taxed enough, albeit with water charges yet to take effect...

So, the question is, where is the €3 billion going to come from? Who and what gets the hit? Could this be the most unpalatable stuff yet?

Discuss........

The €3 billion is a red herring, some of the cuts/taxes have already been agreed.

Take the property tax - €250m this year, €500m next year, that means we are down to 2.75 billion.

Public service pay - the cuts in July are taking €250m off this years budget (500m in a full year), as the numbers drop when people work longer, that saving will increase, I reckon another €150m can be saved next year meaning a total of €400m is already accounted for, giving €2.35 m.

Unemployment numbers are down, whether because of emigration, new jobs, or kicking off those who do not want to work or are fraudulently claiming, another €100m there.

There were PRSI changes announced in the budget last year which will save more money next year.

These are things that are already budgeted for so when the Minister stands up and only announces a few things that save or tax an extra €1.5 bn, then people will be relieved but they won't realise that a lot of it was done this year to them for the future.

Geuze

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/reports/2013/spufin2013.pdf

See SPU 2013 above.

See table 2 on page 6.

Geuze

2.0 billion in exp measures

1.1 billion in revenue measures

Of the 1.1 bn in revenue, the carry forward is 0.6bn, so that's 500m of net new taxes.

Cody Pomeray

Godge wrote: »

Public service pay - the cuts in July are taking €250m off this years budget (500m in a full year), as the numbers drop when people work longer, that saving will increase, I reckon another €150m can be saved next year meaning a total of €400m is already accounted for, giving €2.35 m.

That's 30% of the benefit in a full year. That seems like a substantial... I'm trying to avoid the word 'manipulation'... I don't think we can just randomly boost savings by a significant chunk like 30%. The same with your €100 million saving on social expenditure figure. It is not reliable.

I take the broad illustration of your point - i.e. some of the spadework has already been done - which is not contested. The point is the extent to which further austerity is necessary, or can be with-held in order to let activity emerge; the latter is a point on which IBEC and the Unions are temporarily united.

Let us be tolerant of IBEC's concern for the poor and the meek. It deserves consideration.

Viper_JB

No doubting car tax will be hiked again

spank_inferno

Off the top of my head I guess that motor tax will probably raised again

also the tv lisence will be replaced by the new tax which will be levied on all houses...not just those with a tv.

I reckon there will be an increase in gov service charges including:
- passports
- hospital visits.

All small potatoes.... But if the target is 1 billion

Jawgap

Cut social welfare - 1% to 1.5% cut in most allowances and payments and treat child benefit as an income.

It makes up over 30% of government spending and over 13% of GDP - it's bonkers to be talking about cutting expenditure and leaving the bulk of that budget head untouched.

Godge

Geuze wrote: »

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/reports/2013/spufin2013.pdf

See SPU 2013 above.

See table 2 on page 6.

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

That's 30% of the benefit in a full year. That seems like a substantial... I'm trying to avoid the word 'manipulation'... I don't think we can just randomly boost savings by a significant chunk like 30%. The same with your €100 million saving on social expenditure figure. It is not reliable.

I take the broad illustration of your point - i.e. some of the spadework has already been done - which is not contested. The point is the extent to which further austerity is necessary, or can be with-held in order to let activity emerge; the latter is a point on which IBEC and the Unions are temporarily united.

Let us be tolerant of IBEC's concern for the poor and the meek. It deserves consideration.

Geuze's table shows that of the €1.1 bn needed in 2014, €600m is got from measures carried forward from the 2013 budget, be they PRSI changes, property tax or other measures already announced. That leaves €500m in new tax measures.

On the expenditure side, there is no carry-forward included. The amount required is €1.9 bn in current, €100m in capital. The capital will easily be saved, which means we need to save €1.9 bn. Now that document dates from April 2013 which is before the Haddington Road Agreement/FEMPI Act and before the recent decrease in unemployment claimants.

HRA is to save €1 bn by 2015. €250m is to be saved this year, mostly by the pay cuts which came into effect on 1 July. They will save €500m in a full year i.e. next year, so we know that we will have got at least €250m next year (€500m if this year's €250m is not accounted for in the April 2013 document). Of the second €500m to be saved by 2015, if we assume half in 2014 and half in 2015, we see that HRA will deliver at least €500m of 2014's savings. With the unemployment reduction realising up to €100m in social welfare savings, meanings that savings for 2014 without any further expenditure measures amount to €600m. This could possibly be as high as €1 bn, but that would be too optimistic.

So, to sum up, for the 2014 budget, I estimate that we need to identify around €500m in new revenue measures (is it possible that revenue buoyancy from GNP growth could achieve some of this?) and €1.3 bn (possibly less if HRA delivers quicker) in new expenditure measures.

On the revenue side, with pay rises of 2% across many parts of the private sector, non-indexation of tax credits and bands together with abolition of some remaining tax credits could go a long way towards the €500m target.

The expenditure target is much more difficult to achieve and will in my opinion come down to whether the government can reform social welfare further. Either way, it is not as bad as the €3 bn suggests.

Gringo180

Can I ask an honest question, why don't the ministers take a pay cut from there 100+ k a year salary down to a more conservative figure of about 50k a year? I know its not going to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things but it would send out a signal that were all in it together. On another note we paid out another €50 million to unsecured bondholders today :mad:

hmmm

Godge wrote: »

The expenditure target is much more difficult to achieve and will in my opinion come down to whether the government can reform social welfare further.

For the past couple of budgets, several of the "expenditure" measures were actually increases in tax, e.g. charging people more for bin collections. I don't expect that to change, (unfortunately, we have barely touched expenditure and the ordinary worker gets squeezed even more).

There will also be the usual non-increase in tax bands, which after inflation and some expected growth in the economy should give a few extra hundred million to play with.

touts

Jawgap wrote: »

Cut social welfare - 1% to 1.5% cut in most allowances and payments and treat child benefit as an income.

It makes up over 30% of government spending and over 13% of GDP - it's bonkers to be talking about cutting expenditure and leaving the bulk of that budget head untouched.

Joan Burton wont cut welfare payments. She simply doesnt have the backbone to make the necessary cuts. They will tweak it and she will announce yet another "crack down on fraud". But in reality welfare will continue to be a completely disfunctional system rewarding the lazy and failing the vunerable.

Rightwing

I'd like to see it all come from the spending side, you'd think it would be rather easy find €5bln from spending alone, let alone €3bln.

spank_inferno

Gringo180 wrote: »

Can I ask an honest question, why don't the ministers take a pay cut from there 100+ k a year salary down to a more conservative figure of about 50k a year? I know its not going to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things but it would send out a signal that were all in it together. On another note we paid out another €50 million to unsecured bondholders today :mad:

They have already taken a couple of pay-cuts from peak rates.

Off the top of my head I think they are being paid about 25% less than 2008 levels.

considering they pay tax too, Their basic is little more than 50k net.

And it's a pretty tough job.

Gringo180

spank_inferno wrote: »

They have already taken a couple of pay-cuts from peak rates.

Off the top of my head I think they are being paid about 25% less than 2008 levels.

considering they pay tax too, Their basic is little more than 50k net.

And it's a pretty tough job.

So is a Nurse, Guard, Fireman a tough job but they don't get paid 100-150k a year.

Geuze

Gringo180 wrote: »

Can I ask an honest question, why don't the ministers take a pay cut from there 100+ k a year salary down to a more conservative figure of about 50k a year? I know its not going to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things but it would send out a signal that were all in it together. On another note we paid out another €50 million to unsecured bondholders today :mad:

There have been three pay cuts already.

50k is simply unreasonably low for such a demanding job.

Rightwing

Gringo180 wrote: »

So is a Nurse, Guard, Fireman a tough job but they don't get paid 100-150k a year.

I'm all for cuts, but we have to be a little realistic here.

Primary teachers are on over €50K. Cork Lord mayor is on more than the Spanish prime minister, putting a minister on €50K would even make G Adams cringe.

touts

Gringo180 wrote: »

Can I ask an honest question, why don't the ministers take a pay cut from there 100+ k a year salary down to a more conservative figure of about 50k a year? I know its not going to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things but it would send out a signal that were all in it together. On another note we paid out another €50 million to unsecured bondholders today :mad:

Because apparently if we cut the pay we wouldn't continue to attract the high quality candidates to be TDs and ultimately Ministers.:rolleyes:

Jawgap

touts wrote: »

Joan Burton wont cut welfare payments. She simply doesnt have the backbone to make the necessary cuts. They will tweak it and she will announce yet another "crack down on fraud". But in reality welfare will continue to be a completely disfunctional system rewarding the lazy and failing the vunerable.

I agree I don't think she will cut rates, at least not in a meaningful way. I think any tweaks will be around who qualifies for what and use that to decrease the spend.

In fairness to her, though, I think her instincts are to change the system to make sure the vulnerable are properly looked after and the parasites and skivers are excluded, but it's such a messed up system she'll achieve more than modest reforms.

spank_inferno wrote: »

They have already taken a couple of pay-cuts from peak rates.

Off the top of my head I think they are being paid about 25% less than 2008 levels.

considering they pay tax too, Their basic is little more than 50k net.

And it's a pretty tough job.

Geuze wrote: »

There have been three pay cuts already.

50k is simply unreasonably low for such a demanding job.

My initial reaction to these quotes was to make some flippant remark about smilies being omitted, but I thought I'd take a different tack.

First being a TD is not a difficult, hard or dangerous job, especially if you are in one of the parties. You're lobby fodder - you show up and vote the way you are told.

Without getting into an argument about the incredibly generous perks they enjoy, I think slashing the salary and allowing only core vouched expenses would have a transforming effect on our government.

For a start I think you would get people who are genuinely motivated by public service and who are passionate about issues. Perhaps you'd get retired people of substance looking to give something back, or people of achievement of looking to use their expertise and experience in the national interest. It might also force those who are interested in politics and political representation to go off, get experience and be successful at something else before heading for Leinster House.

Either way it should help do away with the nepotistic system we have at the moment - people would be less inclined to take on the a seat because being a TD is effectively the family business.

Geuze

Jawgap,

the original comment was that Ministers pay be reduced to 50k.

TDs were not mentioned.

Jawgap

Geuze wrote: »

Jawgap,

the original comment was that Ministers pay be reduced to 50k.

TDs were not mentioned.

I assume if ministers' pay were to come down, TDs pay would have to come down? You might get a few public minded individuals to accept the pay cut to take on higher office, but I can't imagine you'd get many.

Geuze

TDs salary was approx 90k before the recent HRA cut.

Ministers get a ministerial allowance on top of their TDs salary.

Anyway, isn't this off-topic?

Geuze

Also, note that many CEOs of PLCs are on 500k - 1m pa, so clearly 50k for a Minister is way out of line.

Many accountants / receivers charge 200-400-800 per hour.


Sure their next in line, the Secretary-General of the Dept is probably on 150k++.

Jawgap

Geuze wrote: »

TDs salary was approx 90k before the recent HRA cut.

Ministers get a ministerial allowance on top of their TDs salary.

Anyway, isn't this off-topic?

It probably is but I think that there is scope for more savings through reforms in the PS*.

CEOs etc do get paid more, but can be more easily removed. I think if you decrease the pay of the TDs / Ministers and you get a better quality of individual you will get people who can stand up to the Sec Gens and not be railroaded by them; they will overcome the inertia of the current system.

......wandering back towards the topic......I think 'sentiment' is a key issue that needs to be addressed - yes there has to be cuts and increased taxation, but something imaginative needs to be included to boost confidence to the point where people feel confident about spending, confident about investing and confident about setting up businesses - at the moment there's no motivation to do anything except save - no bad thing in moderation, but in excess it's a drag on the economy.


*In the interests of transparency, I'm a PS worker on a decent salary

Godge

touts wrote: »

Because apparently if we cut the pay we wouldn't continue to attract the high quality candidates to be TDs and ultimately Ministers.:rolleyes:

The last time I checked it was the ordinary people of Ireland who voted for the T.D.s

I find it incredible that people complain endlessly about the quality of T.D.s while forgetting this point.

If you believe the quality is so bad, stand for election yourself.

touts

Godge wrote: »

The last time I checked it was the ordinary people of Ireland who voted for the T.D.s

I find it incredible that people complain endlessly about the quality of T.D.s while forgetting this point.

If you believe the quality is so bad, stand for election yourself.

I will if you pay for it. You see I only have an ordinary modestly paid job and I'm not a TD or a member of a party so I can't afford to.

Godge

touts wrote: »

I will if you pay for it. You see I only have an ordinary modestly paid job and I'm not a TD or a member of a party so I can't afford to.

If the job is so good and so easy to do, and you have all the solutions like cutting Minister's pay, then you should be elected, no problem.

touts

Godge wrote: »

If the job is so good and so easy to do, and you have all the solutions like cutting Minister's pay, then you should be elected, no problem.

Well every time I talk to a zombie footsoldier from one of the parties I get closer and closer to actually doing it.

Jawgap

touts wrote: »

Well every time I talk to a zombie footsoldier from one of the parties I get closer and closer to actually doing it.

You just need to find a relative who is a TD - wait until they pop their clogs and you'll be grand.

On a more general note, when was the last time we had a TD resign their seat on a point of principle or conscience?

Back towards the topic - anything the State could sell to contribute to the coffers. I know they can't generate the whole amount that way, but maybe there's something we can flog to the Chinese or a gulf country sovereign wealth fund?

BadCharlie

Minsters & TD's pay.

Why not cut their pay even more some have asked?
If we lower the pay even more. what comes to my mind is that we will have more TD's & Minsters taking bribes & doing corrupt dealings "we know it goes on but the risk of having even more".

I would like to see them infact get pay rises, but only if the numbers of minsters and TD's were reduced by lets say 50%. I would not care if they got even 250k a year if i knew they did a very good job. Make the correct even if its unpopular choices and get the country back on track. This country could be great, but we have minsters and td's looking after their own jobs rather than looking after the people.

touts

BadCharlie wrote: »

Minsters & TD's pay.

Why not cut their pay even more some have asked?
If we lower the pay even more. what comes to my mind is that we will have more TD's & Minsters taking bribes & doing corrupt dealings "we know it goes on but the risk of having even more".

I would like to see them infact get pay rises, but only if the numbers of minsters and TD's were reduced by lets say 50%. I would not care if they got even 250k a year if i knew they did a very good job. Make the correct even if its unpopular choices and get the country back on track. This country could be great, but we have minsters and td's looking after their own jobs rather than looking after the people.

Ah..... Bertie was the highest paid Taoiseach in the history of the state. He was one of the highest paid heads of government in the world. Didn't stop him.

BadCharlie

touts wrote: »

Ah..... Bertie was the highest paid Taoiseach in the history of the state. He was one of the highest paid heads of government in the world. Didn't stop him.

You never can or will stop them all. But it should be reduced when paid very well.

Frank Lee Midere

touts wrote: »

I will if you pay for it. You see I only have an ordinary modestly paid job and I'm not a TD or a member of a party so I can't afford to.

The logic here is you had to become a TD to become a TD.


We actually pay ministers peanuts. That's probably why the quality is so bad.

Good loser

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

We actually pay ministers peanuts. That's probably why the quality is so bad.

I would agree with you. Being a TD is a relentlessly thankless difficult job.

Remember how all those characters in Dublin (Fintan O Toole, Dunphy et al) who backed out before the last election when they realised the hours they would have to put in. Not worth it for the salary - as George Lee discovered.

Jawgap

Good loser wrote: »

I would agree with you. Being a TD is a relentlessly thankless difficult job.

Remember how all those characters in Dublin (Fintan O Toole, Dunphy et al) who backed out before the last election when they realised the hours they would have to put in. Not worth it for the salary - as George Lee discovered.

I think you'll find George Lee baled out because he realised than in our system it doesn't matter how good, bright or capable you are you have to serve your time. Which is absolutely ridiculous - spend years lobbying for medical cards and pot holes while you wait your turn!

It's a four-day-a-week job at most - if TDs feel compelled to go to every funeral and letter opening and do 6 masses every Sunday, that's their decision, but just because that might be good politics, it's not work. They're paid as legislators and the amount of they spend doing legislative and oversight work is ridiculously small.

The absurdity of our system is best evidenced in the current cabinet.

Question: You are in a fiscal crisis of historical proportions and you have a choice between making an English teacher from Limerick your Finance Minister or an Oxford educated economist who has studied Irish public debt - who do you pick?

Good loser

Jawgap wrote: »

I think you'll find George Lee baled out because he realised than in our system it doesn't matter how good, bright or capable you are you have to serve your time. Which is absolutely ridiculous - spend years lobbying for medical cards and pot holes while you wait your turn!

It's a four-day-a-week job at most - if TDs feel compelled to go to every funeral and letter opening and do 6 masses every Sunday, that's their decision, but just because that might be good politics, it's not work. They're paid as legislators and the amount of they spend doing legislative and oversight work is ridiculously small.

The absurdity of our system is best evidenced in the current cabinet.

Question: You are in a fiscal crisis of historical proportions and you have a choice between making an English teacher from Limerick your Finance Minister or an Oxford educated economist who has studied Irish public debt - who do you pick?

Ml Noonan or Peter Matthews? I'd take Noonan anytime.

Jawgap

Good loser wrote: »

Ml Noonan or Peter Matthews? I'd take Noonan anytime.

Over Richard Bruton?

Good loser

Jawgap wrote: »

Over Richard Bruton?

Sorry my mistake. But I would prefer Noonan to Bruton too. He's tougher.

creedp

Good loser wrote: »

I would agree with you. Being a TD is a relentlessly thankless difficult job.

Remember how all those characters in Dublin (Fintan O Toole, Dunphy et al) who backed out before the last election when they realised the hours they would have to put in. Not worth it for the salary - as George Lee discovered.

Out of interest have people actually looked at the full earning potential of a TD/Minister? While there have been some changes to personnel and rates recently .. the list below paints a picture .. much easierfor TD to suport basic pay cuts when their expansive allowance/expenses regime is left alone ... laughable when you consider the hoo ha around the reform of PS alowances ..
These are the pay and perks that Enda Kenny and the other 225 members of Leinster House receive.
1 – Basic wage of a TD: € 92,672
2 – Basic wage of a Senator: € 65,621
Additional payments for TDs are as follows:
3 – Additional payment for a Minister of State: €37,370
4 – Additional payment for super Ministers of State: € 17,205 (plus € 37,370 above)
5 – Minister (€ 76,603)
6 – Tanaiste (€ 91,733)
7 – Taoiseach (€ 107,328)
8 – Ceann Comhairle (€ 76,603)
9 – Leas Ceann Comhairle (€ 37,370)
10 – Chairpersons of Oireachtas committees (Andrew Doyle, Ciarán Lynch, Dominic Hannigan, Alex White, Pat Breen,Jerry Buttimer, Joanna Tuffy, Peadar Tóibín, Damien English, David Stanton, Thomas Pringle, Seán Barrett, John McGuinness , Tom Hayes): €9,500
11 – Member of Oireachtas Commission (Senator John Whelan, Senator Tom Sheahan, Senator Marc MacSharry, Deputy Frank Feighan, Deputy Dan Neville, Deputy John Browne, Deputy Catherine Byrne, Deputy Jack Wall ): €9,500
Chief whips
12 – Chief Whip (Paul Kehoe): no payment specified in One Stop Shop
13 – Assistant Government Whip (Emmet Stagg): €15,000
14 – Whip to Labour Party (Emmet Stagg): no payment specified in One Stop Shop
15 – Asst Whip to Fine Gael (Joe Carey): €7,500
16 – Asst Whip to Labour (John Lyons): €6,000
17 – Whip to Fianna Fail (Sean O’Fearghail): €19,000
18 – Asst Whip to Fianna Fail (John Browne): €9,500
19 – Whip to Sinn Fein (Aengus Ó Snodaigh): €6,000
20 – Asst Whip to Sinn Fein (Jonathan O’Brien): €3,000
21 – Whip to Socialist Party : €6,000
22 – Whip to People Before Profit : €6,000
Additional payments for Senators are as follows
22 – Cathaoirleach (Paddy Burke): €44,336
23 – Leas-Chathaoirleach (Denis O’Donovan): €24,429
24 – Leader of the Seanad (Maurice Cummins): €19,439
25 – Deputy Leader of the House (Ivana Bacik): €9,500
26 – Government Whip (Paul Coghlan): €6,000
27 – Assistant Government Whip (Susan O’Keeffe): €4,000
28 – Fianna Fáil Leader (Darragh O’Brien): €9,500
29 – Independent Group of Nominee Senators’ Leader (Jillian Van Turnhout): €6,000
30 – Independent Group of University Senators’ Leader (Ronan Mullen): €6,000
31 – Fianna Fáil Whip (Diarmuid Wilson): €6,000
32 – Independent Group of Nominee Senators’ Whip (Katherine Zappone): €4,000
33 – Independent Group of University Senators’ Whip (Sean Barrett): €4,000
34 – Select Committee on Members’ Interests of Seanad Éireann (Ivana Bacik, Deirdre Clune,David Cullinane, Maurice Cummins, Ronan Mullen, Darragh O’Brien, Jillian Turnhout) : €3,100 per annum
Pensions
35 – TDs and senators contribute 6% of their salary a year for up to a maximum of 20 years in order to benefit from the Dail pension scheme. It is a final salary scheme which allows for a maximum of ½ the final salary to be paid for life from aged 65 – 1/40th of final salary is accrued for each year of service. It provides for a lump sum upon retirement and it is possible to take early retirement from age 50.
Allowances
36 – Travel and Accommodation: €12,000 – €37,850 per annum depending on distance from the Leinster House. Senators get paid €7,000 – €32,850 per annum and so-called “office holders” get paid €8,400 – €36,150 per annum
Public Representation Allowance: €15,000 for TDs (no evidence of expenditure required – unvouched) or up to €25,700 (supported by invoices and receipts – vouched); Ministers €12,000 (unvouched) to €20,000 (vouched); Senators €9,250 (unvouched) to €15,000 (vouched)
37 – Dual abode allowance: This applies to ministers only and allows Ministers to claim tax deductions on mortgages, rental or hotel accommodation PLUS tax deductions for maintaining property and other expenses which can be up to €6,500.
38 – Ministers can claim a tax deduction on the interest on any loan required to purchase a second residence.
39 – Ministers can claim a tax deduction on maintenance required on any second residence. € 6,500
40 – Ministers can claim the entire cost of rental accommodation if their second residence is rented.
41 – Ministers can claim a tax deduction on the cost of maintaining a second rented residence.
42 – As an alternative to 41 Ministers can claim a tax deduction of €4,500
43 – If Ministers use a hotel or guest house as a second residence they an claim for the entire cost IN ADDITION to €72.66 for subsistence.
44 – If Ministers use a hotel or guest house as a second residence they an claim for maintenance costs (e.g. laundry)
45 – As an alternative to 44 Ministers can claim €3,500
46 – Allowance for Independent TDs
€ 41,152 per annum each for the 18 independent TDs (Stephen Donnelly, Luke Flanagan, Mick Wallace, Shane Ross, Thomas Pringle, Michael Healy-Rae, Michael Lowry, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Tom Fleming, Noel Grealish, John Halligan, Catherine Murphy, Maureen O’Sullivan PLUS four TDs who have had the party whip removed Tommy Broughan, Willie Penrose, Denis Naughten and Patrick Nulty ).
47 – Allowance for Independent Senators
€ 23,388 for 11 independent senators (John Crown, David Norris, Sean Barrett, Martin McAleese, Feargal Quinn, Ronan Mullen, Fiach Mac Conghail, Marie-Louise O’Donnell, Jillian van Turnhout, Katherine Zappone, Mary Ann O’Brien.
48 – Termination payments:
These are due to of a lump sum upon termination PLUS a monthly payment for up to a year. As long as you have at least six months service in either the Dail or Seanad, you get a termination payment of two months salary. The monthly payment depends on how many years you’ve been a TD or senator eg for five years, you get three months at 75% of your salary. If you have over 14 years service, then you’d be entitled to 6 months at 75% of salary plus the following six months at 50% of salary.
49 – Mileage Allowances
50 – Each minister and minister of state, except An Taoiseach, An Tanaiste and justice minister, is entitled to recruit two drivers apiece at a cost which is charged to each department.
51 – Attendance of a TD at a “parliamentary assembly” carries hotel expenses and a subsistence allowance for “entertaining”
52 – Parliamentary assistants allowance (no requirement by Oireachtas members to report appointing members of their own families)
Up to €41,092 per TD for secretarial assistance, PR, IT and training
€8,000 per TD to set up and kit out a constituency office

Additional perks
53 – Free parking in central Dublin (normal cost €12 per day approx)
54 – Free gym
55 – Free subsidised restaurant
56 – Private members bar with subsidised drinks
57 – Free tax advice service
58 – Free language lessons
59 – Postage: – 1,500 free postage items per month for TDs and 1,000 for senators.
60 – Free ink cartridges: up to the value of €2000 annually
61 – Free unlimited telephone calls (landline)
62 – Mobile phone allowance: €750 every 18 months
63 – Free office in Leinster House for TDs & Senators
64 – VHI free
65 – Free Automobile A insurance
66 – Free car insurance.
67 – Free personal accident and death insurance
68 – Individual state funding for political parties.”

renegademaster

spank_inferno wrote: »

Off the top of my head I guess that motor tax will probably raised again

also the tv lisence will be replaced by the new tax which will be levied on all houses...not just those with a tv.

I reckon there will be an increase in gov service charges including:
- passports
- hospital visits.

All small potatoes.... But if the target is 1 billion

i'll be disposing of my 2 televisions and a portable at the doors of the local council as soon as that comes in! i won't be alone either

Noreen1

Godge wrote: »

The last time I checked it was the ordinary people of Ireland who voted for the T.D.s

I find it incredible that people complain endlessly about the quality of T.D.s while forgetting this point.

If you believe the quality is so bad, stand for election yourself.

A: Judging the quality of someones performance does not require either the ability, or desire, to do the same job yourself.

B: People can only vote for the candidates whose names are on the ballot paper. If none of the candidates are either of suitable quality, or ideology, it is only possible to select the least worst candidate.

renegademaster wrote: »

i'll be disposing of my 2 televisions and a portable at the doors of the local council as soon as that comes in! i won't be alone either

That wont do any good! The new license is for "communication devices" capable of receiving media content. So, your internet enabled mobile phone, laptop, or computer - will require a license, unfortunately.

renegademaster

Noreen1 wrote: »

A: Judging the quality of someones performance does not require either the ability, or desire, to do the same job yourself.

B: People can only vote for the candidates whose names are on the ballot paper. If none of the candidates are either of suitable quality, or ideology, it is only possible to select the least worst candidate.




That wont do any good! The new license is for "communication devices" capable of receiving media content. So, your internet enabled mobile phone, laptop, or computer - will require a license, unfortunately. :(

what if i have no internet enabled mobile phone, laptop, or computer also?

i will lose all before i pay a broadcasting charge!! i use a basic phone and can always go to net cafe to surf net!!

Godge

Noreen1 wrote: »

A: Judging the quality of someones performance does not require either the ability, or desire, to do the same job yourself.

B: People can only vote for the candidates whose names are on the ballot paper. If none of the candidates are either of suitable quality, or ideology, it is only possible to select the least worst candidate.

The key difference to saying the customer service in paypal is crap, or the teacher of my kids doesn't know what he is doing, or gardai are crap, is that in the case of T.D.s, the job is open to everyone, just most can't be bothered. They then complain about the calibre of T.D.s.

creedp

Noreen1 wrote: »

That wont do any good! The new license is for "communication devices" capable of receiving media content. So, your internet enabled mobile phone, laptop, or computer - will require a license, unfortunately.

The Govt will probably want to add a 'wireless' (i.e. radio!) to that that list to ensure every household is captured - in any case it will be based on potential rather than actual so it doesn't matter if you don't have a communication device in your house today as you could potentially have one tomorrow. This will be simply another form of flat rate indirect taxation that everybody pays until possibly a few interests groups get Kenny all worried about his re-election and he starts creating ad-hoc exemptions. How long before effluent will be charged for? Presumably the Dail and Seanad will be exempt from that potentially infinite charge!

Jawgap

Good loser wrote: »

Sorry my mistake. But I would prefer Noonan to Bruton too. He's tougher.

I'm not sure it's 'tougher' we need - I'd prefer to think that the guy or girl managing the country's finances is the smartest we can find, with a support team of equally smart people.

If it's all about toughness and it has to be someone from Limerick, let's see if Paul O'Connell wants the gig (John Hayes can be his minister of state).

It's a pretty damning indictment of our system when talent is squandered because ministerial posts have to be spread around geographically

sarumite

Godge wrote: »

The key difference to saying the customer service in paypal is crap, or the teacher of my kids doesn't know what he is doing, or gardai are crap, is that in the case of T.D.s, the job is open to everyone, just most can't be bothered. They then complain about the calibre of T.D.s.

Technically, yes, it is open to anyone who can afford to pay the registration fee. However if you look at the current Dail we have, a person is at a severe disadvantage if they are not in a political party or have an amount of cash available for canvassing so it is certainly not an even playing field.

Furthermore, as Noreen has pointed out I may not think I have the necessary skills necessary to be a politician, however that doesn't mean that I am unable to judge others who do the job. What is a person to do if they I don't believe they are the right person for the job but also do not think anyone of the potential candidates are also suitable?

Personally I think its healthy in a democracy to question the calibre of T.D's if you feel are not up to scratch. I have no problem saying that I would not be a suitable candidate for political office but then again neither is Michael Lowry in my estimation

Tea drinker

Jawgap wrote: »

You just need to find a relative who is a TD - wait until they pop their clogs and you'll be grand.

On a more general note, when was the last time we had a TD resign their seat on a point of principle or conscience?

Back towards the topic - anything the State could sell to contribute to the coffers. I know they can't generate the whole amount that way, but maybe there's something we can flog to the Chinese or a gulf country sovereign wealth fund?

Sell CIE and Bus Eireann for a euro each, and watch the savings roll in.
Now, the service might get a bit fecked up, you might have strikes but you will get savings.

skafish

Jawgap wrote: »

Back towards the topic - anything the State could sell to contribute to the coffers. I know they can't generate the whole amount that way, but maybe there's something we can flog to the Chinese or a gulf country sovereign wealth fund?

If the moronic decision by Ray Burke to effectively allow oil and gas companies pay no tax here was reversed, based on the known quantities of same around the coast, we would be out of trouble shortly after they start producing oil and gas. Which should be within the next 24 months

maninasia

So tell me how we would be out of trouble, numbers please.

OU812

maninasia wrote: »

So tell me how we would be out of trouble, numbers please.

There's an estimated two billion (approx) barrels of oil at two of the three sites currently being worked on.

One barrel is 149 litres. Average price per barrel is $107 (crude/brent).

Jawgap

OU812 wrote: »

There's an estimated two billion (approx) barrels of oil at two of the three sites currently being worked on.

One barrel is 149 litres. Average price per barrel is $107 (crude/brent).

So enough to supply the US for just over 100 days, China for 200 days or the UK for 3 years?

Assuming it's all there and you extract it at 100% efficiency.

Or to put it another way - 2 billion barrels is about what Norway produces in less than 3 years.