Transparency on reported posts

MadsL

I'm sure most people's reaction to the title will be "Oh, God NOO!!" - but hear me out.

I cannot keep track of reported posts unless I happen to remember or post in the forum that a post has been reported. Which means sometimes I end up PMing the mods to see if action has been taken. I'm often told - yeah, we looked at that but decided not to act - as there is no tracking of reported posts the only way I see what happens to reported posts is if action is taken.

Is there any way that something could be put in place that the person reporting could actually see that a mod has looked at the issue and closed the ticket of the reported post? Even if it is just a PM to the reporter stating no action taken.

Thanks for listening.

ToadVine

I think a little yellow card beside any post that has been given an infraction (red for where the user has been banned for that post) would solve many of the problems people have with this.

It would be far more transparent and take the heat out of situations like this.

MadsL

ToadVine wrote: »

I think a little yellow card beside any post that has been given an infraction (red for where the user has been banned for that post) would solve many of the problems people have with this.

It would be far more transparent and take the heat out of situations like this.

That is the system currently (did I miss some sarcasm?) - my point is that there is no way for the reporter to know if the mod decided that no action was needed other than PMing the mods. Nor does the reporter know which mod is handling it.

ToadVine

Not sarcasm ... is there really a yellow and red flag put beside infracted/banned posts?

How did I miss that???

Insect Overlord

Yellow card for "Warnings", red card for "Infractions". Sometimes an in-thread noted for a ban, but not always.

ToadVine

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Yellow card for "Warnings", red card for "Infractions". Sometimes an in-thread noted for a ban, but not always.

So am I correct in thinking that the post I linked to above was not infracted ? Since there is no flag beside it ?

MadsL

ToadVine wrote: »

So am I correct in thinking that the post I linked to above was not infracted ? Since there is no flag beside it ?

Yep.

Did you report it? If so, you can see my point.

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

That is the system currently (did I miss some sarcasm?) - my point is that there is no way for the reporter to know if the mod decided that no action was needed other than PMing the mods. Nor does the reporter know which mod is handling it.

So after you report a post you PM mods to ensure that action was taken? And if action is not taken or mod decides nothing to see here move along?

Dravokivich

This has come up a lot here, its a matter of time being wasted, as a Mod responding to someone reporting a post stating no further action to be taken, could end up in PM conversation with them.

The only transparency I think is required, is when someone is infracted/banned and feels the need to question it.

Insect Overlord

ToadVine wrote: »

So am I correct in thinking that the post I linked to above was not infracted ? Since there is no flag beside it ?

Correcto.

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

So after you report a post you PM mods to ensure that action was taken? And if action is not taken or mod decides nothing to see here move along?

There have been times when I have reported an obviously abusive post and it has not been infracted. I have then PM'd a mod and they have said they didn't see it, but then take action.

I think some reports slip through the cracks.

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

There have been times when I have reported an obviously abusive post and it has not been infracted. I have then PM'd a mod and they have said they didn't see it, but then take action.

I think some reports slip through the cracks.

And this makes you lose sleep or something?

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

And this makes you lose sleep or something?

I prefer that if I report a post it gets looked at, and given our recent bumping of heads, I prefer it gets looked at carefully. Is it co-incidence that you have shown up in this thread?

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

I prefer that if I report a post it gets looked at, and given our recent bumping of heads, I prefer it gets looked at carefully. Is it co-incidence that you have shown up in this thread?

Lol it showed up in the new posts section and until your last post i had not even looked at who the OP was so don't be getting paranoid. I am just trying to understand the mentallity of someone who cares so much about words on the internet they would keep track of posts that they have reported and actually follow up on it if they feel they have not received justice.

MadsL

Dravokivich wrote: »

This has come up a lot here, its a matter of time being wasted, as a Mod responding to someone reporting a post stating no further action to be taken, could end up in PM conversation with them..

We have a public ban list - could we not have a public list of posts reported and action taken?

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

Lol it showed up in the new posts section and until your last post i had not even looked at who the OP was so don't be getting paranoid. I am just trying to understand the mentallity of someone who cares so much about words on the internet they would keep track of posts that they have reported and actually follow up on it if they feel they have not received justice.

To use your logic for a second; you are caring about the mentality of someone who posts on the internet because they care about what someone who posts on the internet?

Should we compare mama's basements?

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

We have a public ban list - could we not have a public list of posts reported and action taken?

To what end? To satisfy the tiny minority who this "affects"?

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

To use your logic for a second; you are caring about the mentality of someone who posts on the internet because they care about what someone who posts on the internet?

Should we compare mama's basements?

Lol i don't really "care" and mamma's dead i got no basement

Mr E

This was discussed before (last March).

Have a read through that thread to help you understand why this would greatly (and unnecessarily IMHO) result in an increased workload for mods.

Tallon

ToadVine wrote: »

So am I correct in thinking that the post I linked to above was not infracted ? Since there is no flag beside it ?

I don't see why the post you linked to should recieve any kind of action

Oryx

MadsL wrote: »

We have a public ban list - could we not have a public list of posts reported and action taken?

Why? I report posts, and after that, its not my problem anymore, and tbh, I dont care what happens next.

The only reason someone would want a follow up is if they are somehow affected by the post in question. In that case, if you see no action, by all means pm the mod to ask why. But with the majority of reported posts it would just be a massive headache to respond indivudually to the reporter simply because procedure requires it. Honestly, most do not care.

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

To what end? To satisfy the tiny minority who this "affects"?

Well, how many people look at the ban list?

seamus post in the previous thread seems to outline a mechanism that would work, and actually help mods following a particular thread.

Also I could envision a system that would do the following:

1. Add the report post to a database
2. Automatically send a tracking ID to the reporter
3. Update the database once a post has been actioned/or marked no action
4. The reporter could then check the database tracking and only see posts they have reported (not every post) - no interaction with mods required.

This would actually reduce mod work responding to PMs reminding about reported posts.

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

Well, how many people look at the ban list?

seamus post in the previous thread seems to outline a mechanism that would work, and actually help mods following a particular thread.

Also I could envision a system that would do the following:

1. Add the report post to a database
2. Automatically send a tracking ID to the reporter
3. Update the database once a post has been actioned/or marked no action
4. The reporter could then check the database tracking and only see posts they have reported (not every post) - no interaction with mods required.

This would actually reduce mod work responding to PMs reminding about reported posts.

All excellent ideas. Now where should boards send the invoice? You know to play for the guys to write up the code and then integrate it into an already perfectly working system? I assume you will be paying for this as you seem to be the only one who wants it? Or should the owners take the hit to keep one customer happy?

Tom Dunne

MadsL wrote: »

This would actually reduce mod work responding to PMs reminding about reported posts.

One of the other significant issues in that thread is developer time - as is common in so many organisations, there is a huge list of things to do, and if it is agreed that something like this is to be implemented, it has to go to the end of a very big list.

So it is not an unwillingness to do anything, it is a question of time and resources.

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

All excellent ideas. Now where should boards send the invoice? You know to play for the guys to write up the code and then integrate it into an already perfectly working system? I assume you will be paying for this as you seem to be the only one who wants it? Or should the owners take the hit to keep one customer happy?

What's with the hostility?

I'm plainly not the only one that thinks this is a good idea gien the other thread. I accept there are finite resources, I never questioned that, but the point of feedback is to throw out discussion of ideas.

And boards.ie is perfect? OK.

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

What's with the hostility?

I'm plainly not the only one that thinks this is a good idea gien the other thread. I accept there are finite resources, I never questioned that, but the point of feedback is to throw out discussion of ideas.

And boards.ie is perfect? OK.

bumper234 wrote: »

All excellent ideas. Now where should boards send the invoice? You know to play for the guys to write up the code and then integrate it into an already perfectly working system? I assume you will be paying for this as you seem to be the only one who wants it? Or should the owners take the hit to keep one customer happy?

:rolleyes:

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Well we would not be having intense debate about the front page if boards were perfect now would we?

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

Well we would not be having intense debate about the front page if boards were perfect now would we?

Please show me where i said "BOARDS" is perfect

Actually don't bother because you will claim what i wrote means what you think it means so i will reword just for you.

All excellent ideas. Now where should boards send the invoice? You know to play for the guys to write up the code and then integrate it into an already good system that 99.9% of the customers seem happy with? I assume you will be paying for this as you seem to be the only one who wants it? Or should the owners take the hit to keep one customer happy?

There you go;)

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

Please show me where i said "BOARDS" is perfect

*sigh*

Now we are getting into squabbles about terminology. Not playing that game again as it tends to descend into you insulting me.

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

*sigh*

Now we are getting into squabbles about terminology. Not playing that game again as it tends to descend into you insulting me.

Gives you something to report....i like to encourage hobbies in the young:D

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

Gives you something to report....i like to encourage hobbies in the young:D

...and we are done here.

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

...and we are done here.

end of debate?:(

Tom Dunne

Ok ladies, put the handbags away, fix your makeup and get back on topic.

MadsL

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Ok ladies, put the handbags away, fix your makeup and get back on topic.

...sexist.

Reported :P

In all seriousness though, the previous thread highlights that the reporting system catches a few posts but a certain number of posts reported seem to get no action.

In AH you can insult posters, be racist, offensively unfunny and you have (at a guess) about a 35-40% chance of getting away with it.

It would seem to make sense to me to have some tracking on the reporters side of things, the challenge being how to do that without A. extra mod work (hopefully reducing mod work) and B. Without huge development overheads.

Tom Dunne

MadsL wrote: »

development overheads.

But that's one of the issues - the very fact that it requires development.

Irrespective of how complex it is, or how long it takes, it still takes time. Something which is in short supply at HQ Development dept.

MadsL

Tom Dunne wrote: »

But that's one of the issues - the very fact that it requires development.

Irrespective of how complex it is, or how long it takes, it still takes time. Something which is in short supply at HQ Development dept.

I understand that. However, did I see an ad that boards.ie hired a full time graduate developer. Perhaps the short supply isn't so short anymore?

And before I get my head bitten off by someone I am not saying this is something that HAS to be done, just raising it as an option.

Taltos

See this concerns me.

On the one hand I can see the merit in your suggestion, a database could be a handy tool to have.
However on the other I can see an opportunity here for such a system to be abused, granted by a minority but abused at the same time.

Right now as a poster if one of your posts or many of your reports are reported by another it really doesn't mean all that much to you as a poster. Yes, the mods / catmods will get the alert, review the thread, review the post and make their best judgement on if action is warranted and if action is needed to what level, eg PM / on thread warning / yellow card (warning) / red card (infraction) / ban (x time) / flag to the admins for wider action. In many
cases the judgement is made that the post is either borderline or really requires no attention and so no action is taken.

Yes, some might fall through the cracks, but normally such posts get reported by multiple posters and so come back to the top of the queue.

However, if a solution that you suggest is put in place then possibly innocent posters who have been targeted by others (it happens) will get a rapidly increasing "Reported Count".
But what's the problem with that? - Well being human we tend to see patterns even where there isn't one. Can you guarantee that such a poster would not fall on the wrong side of a tired mod who thinks there might be something going on (mistakes do happen), or same poster suddenly finds themselves a target of some bullying individuals who just want to rack up their reported count? I know both are extreme, but before any time (money) is invested in a solution like the above think we need to carefully think it through, balance the merits against any possible misuse or abuse of such a system.

I know you say it would be useful for you to see that action has been taken.
However, per one of the earlier posts - seriously why do you care?
- not saying that is a bad thing, but when I and I'm not sure how many others report a post I move on, trusting (maybe innocently) that the mods will review and take action as they see fit. If they don't they don't but if they do great. But either way I'm not going to come back and check on that post again and again. Does this mean I might report the same post multiple time? I'm sure I have but not intentionally.

Just my view, while I love process, I still think that before management even consider redirecting resources to a system like this they fully explore the potential impacts to the wider community. As someone else here alluded to what is useful for one poster here can have very negative unintentional consequences on others...

nesf

There's also an issue where I look at a reported post and it's a borderline call to my eyes and decide to do nothing but one of my co-mods comes along and (for whatever reason) doesn't see it that way and thinks it requires action. Are they going to go in and change my mark in the register (can they even do this?) and then overrule me? More problematically, will they be less inclined to act if they know my view on the incident? The latter is more problematic because we'll tend to get a "first responder non-action bias" in this.

Dades

Leaving aside the development time it would take which makes this an open-and-shut case; for every individual who has a desire to see if a particular post has been actioned there's going to be a user who sees it as their role to ensure Boards mods are doing a job to their satisfaction - and would use this system constantly as a stick to wave about.

Frankly that's not something we need - we have CMods and Admins who are contactable at any time if someone needs to escalate something.

P. Breathnach

Taltos wrote: »

...
I know you say it would be useful for you to see that action has been taken.
However, per one of the earlier posts - seriously why do you care?...

I report posts when I form the opinion that the breach guidelines/charters and are bad for the forum. That's because I care for Boards.

Are you suggesting that it's okay for me to care enough to report posts, but I should not care enough to be interested in what happens?

MadsL

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I report posts when I form the opinion that the breach guidelines/charters and are bad for the forum. That's because I care for Boards.

Are you suggesting that it's okay for me to care enough to report posts, but I should not care enough to be interested in what happens?

That seems to be the line alright this 'why do you even care' attitude.

If you take most helpdesks they have customer trouble ticket numbers, so that you don't have explain everything all over again a second time. That's a given in most customer care environments.

Again, I accept there is development time involved in such as system.

Dades

MadsL wrote: »

If you take most helpdesks they have customer trouble ticket numbers, so that you don't have explain everything all over again a second time. That's a given in most customer care environments.

There's a rather obvious difference between the mod/user relationship and customer care environments, so I'm not sure this line is worth pursuing.

MadsL

Dades wrote: »

There's a rather obvious difference between the mod/user relationship and customer care environments, so I'm not sure this line is worth pursuing.

True.

But also false in the sense that boards has become a commercial business.

By this logic boards should not behave as other commercial operations do.

Dades

It's still a free service.

And while I appreciate that you are a subscriber, the vast majority of users are not and can't expect to be entitled to the same customer care you *might* get from someone who you've paid.

That said, it's not as if the current system is based on what people are entitled to, rather on what works for a community. There is a question of whether a "monitoring" system for mods' response to reported posts is fair on the volunteers here (there would be abusers of this system), but as long as the Boards developers have their hands full on more pressing tasks it will remain somewhat moot.

MadsL

Dades wrote: »

It's still a free service.

And while I appreciate that you are a subscriber, the vast majority of users are not and can't expect to be entitled to the same customer care you *might* get from someone who you've paid.

Make it available to subscribers? We don't get much.

That said, it's not as if the current system is based on what people are entitled to, rather on what works for a community. There is a question of whether a "monitoring" system for mods' response to reported posts is fair on the volunteers here (there would be abusers of this system), but as long as the Boards developers have their hands full on more pressing tasks it will remain somewhat moot.

I agree, and any abuse could be dealt with by removing access. However, if you read back I'm trying to make it easier on the mods. There are always people like me who 'follow up' (years of dealing with local authorities depts I'm afraid) and mods have to respond to PMs. Automated tracking does not involve mods at all, and would make life easier for them I would have thought.

If mods are concerned about being 'monitored' I find that a bit strange. How do you improve something if you don't measure it. If 50% of reported posts in a forum go un-actioned then surely some more mods are needed.

Insect Overlord

MadsL wrote: »

If mods are concerned about being 'monitored' I find that a bit strange. How do you improve something if you don't measure it. If 50% of reported posts in a forum go un-actioned then surely some more mods are needed.

We're already monitored by our co-mods, by the Category Mods and by the Administrators.

MadsL

Insect Overlord wrote: »

We're already monitored by our co-mods, by the Category Mods and by the Administrators.

So why would a system as I proposed by 'unfair' on mods? I'm proposing access by the great unwashed only to the posts they themselves as an individual user report. You would have no visibility by ordinary users across all reported posts.

Insect Overlord

MadsL wrote: »

So why would a system as I proposed by 'unfair' on mods? I'm proposing access by the great unwashed only to the posts they themselves as an individual user report. You would have no visibility by ordinary users across all reported posts.

It'd probably work fine for 3/4 of the forums on the site.

The big ones would be a nightmare though. After Hours, The Ladies Lounge, Soccer, Rugby, GAA, Personal Issues, Television, Radio, Health & Fitness, Conspiracy Theories, Motors, CVPL, Politics, etc would be tough enough to look after without having to reply to every report as well.

MadsL

Insect Overlord wrote: »

It'd probably work fine for 3/4 of the forums on the site.

The big ones would be a nightmare though. After Hours, The Ladies Lounge, Soccer, Rugby, GAA, Personal Issues, Television, Radio, Health & Fitness, Conspiracy Theories, Motors, CVPL, Politics, etc would be tough enough to look after without having to reply to every report as well.

I'm not proposing that mods have to reply to every report.

I'm proposing a self-service lookup, a report generates a ticket number assigned to the report and PM/emails it to the user, using that ticket number a user who reported a post can look up and see the status of the reported post.

1. Unactioned
2. Pending - and mod who 'grabbed' it for consideration.
3. Warning
4. infraction
5. No action taken

No more nagging PMs to mods and fewer mod PM responses.

Dades

MadsL wrote: »

If mods are concerned about being 'monitored' I find that a bit strange.

I'm thinking that concern would only extend to situations involving demanding users who are somewhat trigger happy with the report function for any number of reasons. They exist, you know.

MadsL wrote: »

If 50% of reported posts in a forum go un-actioned then surely some more mods are needed.

Quite a lot of posts do go unactioned because mods don't feel the need to step in. Ticking a box marked "No Action Necessary" in a monitoring system is not going to appease certain reporters, particularly the type who feel strongly enough to be following said report.

But I'd agree that more mods are needed in forums where reports of obvious wrongdoings are left unactioned. That's something to approach the CMods with, who'll be able to check out if there's a requirement for more bodies, of if someone was just on holidays etc.

nesf

MadsL wrote: »

No more nagging PMs to mods and fewer mod PM responses.

I couldn't remember the last one I got so I checked, the last time a user PM's me about a post (actually I'm not sure if they reported it or not but anyways) was last August. You're trying to solve a problem that isn't there.