must we call ourselves atheists?

ibstar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos

After watching this I come to realize that maybe we Atheists/Agnostics shouldn't refer to ourselves by the branding that religious organizations name us. As Neil deGrasse Tyson points out, people that don't ski, don't refer to themselves as non-skiers etc.

Any thoughts from the boradsies?

bumper234

Non religious, unbeliever, anti fairy tale? take your pick

ibstar

bumper234 wrote: »

Non religious, unbeliever, anti fairy tale? take your pick

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Just call me Gimlet, son of Groin, Dwarf-lord of Geritol and Royal Inspector of Meats.

biko

There's no reason really to use the term but it's in common use and I don't think it has a particular good or bad connotation.

Dades

You can call yourself whatever you want, but I don't think you should not call yourself something because peoples' erroneous perceptions of what it means.

I do think some (religious) people still feel threatened by 'atheists', even though statistically they're less likely to have a crime perpetrated on them by one. :P

SebBerkovich

I'm Seb, but when i'm feeling fancy, i'm Sebastian.
Thats more than enough terms to describe me.

magicbastarder

ibstar wrote: »

As Neil deGrasse Tyson points out, people that don't ski, don't refer to themselves as non-skiers etc.

Any thoughts from the boradsies?

people who don't do something which is usually the norm usually end up with labels; it's just a fact of life. people who don't eat meat have a label, for example.

Penn

ibstar wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos

After watching this I come to realize that maybe we Atheists/Agnostics shouldn't refer to ourselves by the branding that religious organizations name us. As Neil deGrasse Tyson points out, people that don't ski, don't refer to themselves as non-skiers etc.

Any thoughts from the boradsies?

The difference is, because the majority of people in the world have these labels, the minority need a label to differentiate themselves. "Non-religious" might still mean you believe in a god, but just that you don't worship or follow any particular one. It's too vague a term. "Atheist" is pretty clear in what it means. A person who does not believe in a god or gods.

"Religious" is a term about worship, not belief. "Theist" is the term about belief. So rather than "Theist" and "Non-Theist", it's "Theist" and "Atheist".

GarIT

I refuse to be called anything. Religion does not apply to me in any form and I have no problem making that clear to anyone who tries to say otherwise.

magicbastarder

GarIT wrote: »

I refuse to be called anything.

you're an anominatist so.

Zombrex

In day to day conversation I call myself "non-religious" when the context of religion comes up (for example when I went into hospital recently and was asked my religion I said "no religion", not "atheist")

I don't have any issue with the term atheism, but I think non-religious is clearer in day to day conversation considering most of the time you are not discussing the epistemology issues of the claims of theism, you are discussing do you hold to any particular religious practices or requirements (eg in the hospital they are asking to see if I should be included in any Christian rituals such as holy communion).

Sofaspud

I love Neil DeGrasse Tyson, but this is one thing I disagree with him about.

Atheism isn't a "movement" or a description of a set of beliefs, it just means not a theist, as in not a believer in a god.
Tyson doesn't believe in a god, therefore he's an atheist.

Bannasidhe

Zombrex wrote: »

when I went into hospital recently and was asked my religion I said "no religion", not "atheist"

I tried that and was frequently woken from a morphine induced slumber by a priest flinging water and incantations at me. Great-grand Uncle went with atheist and no priest flung water or incantations at him. Next time I'm going with atheist.

Zombrex

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I tried that and was frequently woken from a morphine induced slumber by a priest flinging water and incantations at me. Great-grand Uncle went with atheist and no priest flung water or incantations at him. Next time I'm going with atheist.

really? fortunately never had that problem. Might be to do with how preachy the hospital chaplin service is.

Satanist is probably the safest bet :pac:

Bannasidhe

Zombrex wrote: »

really? fortunately never had that problem. Might be to do with how preachy the hospital chaplin service is.

Satanist is probably the safest bet :pac:

Yup - for a while there I was in and out of hospital every month and every time I said 'no religion' and every time as soon as I passed out in a purple haze yer man was there with the water flinging. Appeals to the nurses proved useless so in the end my Muslim surgeon had a word with him and made him stop. Me waking up roaring was bad for my post-op recovery apparently.

G-G Uncle did have to contend with some fairly gruesome 'holy' pictures tho which I was spared. He did managed to get them to remove the open heart surgery one which was facing him in his private room - so they put it up in a corridor directly across from his door, which his bed also faced.

kiffer

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yup - for a while there I was in and out of hospital every month and every time I said 'no religion' and every time as soon as I passed out in a purple haze yer man was there with the water flinging. Appeals to the nurses proved useless so in the end my Muslim surgeon had a word with him and made him stop. Me waking up roaring was bad for my post-op recovery apparently.

G-G Uncle did have to contend with some fairly gruesome 'holy' pictures tho which I was spared. He did managed to get them to remove the open heart surgery one which was facing him in his private room - so they put it up in a corridor directly across from his door, which his bed also faced.

Do they use special sterile holy water?
Could you imagine how nasty some random holy well might be?

Bannasidhe

kiffer wrote: »

Do they use special sterile holy water?
Could you imagine how nasty some random holy well might be?

Straight out of the tap with a bit of hand waving and a quick inthenameofthefathersonaaaandholyghost mumbled over it would be my guess.

Correlation between spread of MRSA and 'holy' water flinging - discuss.

Akrasia

Dades wrote: »

I do think some (religious) people still feel threatened by 'atheists', even though statistically they're less likely to have a crime perpetrated on them by one. :P

We mightn't steal their handbag, but their illusions are much more valuable to them

Atheists are a real threat to theism. One of the reasons people believe in religion is because it's the default position in our society. People don't have to justify their beliefs either to themselves or to others because those beliefs are communal.

That position is rapidly changing. When I meet someone of my own age, I do not expect them to be religious. I am not at all surprised if they are atheists.
When I meet people my age who are overtly religious, that is a genuine surprise.
As the older generation die off, the paradigm is shifting towards secularism and atheism.
The more atheists there are, the more difficult it is to be 'religious' without having to invest any thought into it.

endacl

Atheism is a state. I'm not an atheist. I am however atheist. The attachment of other meaning to this simple fact is something I leave to others. I'm atheist and so is this cup of tea.

TBH, I only post here because the banter is good...

Pherekydes

endacl wrote: »

Atheism is a state. I'm not an atheist. I am however atheist. The attachment of other meaning to this simple fact is something I leave to others. I'm atheist and so is this cup of tea.

TBH, I only post here because the banter is good...

...and you can get biscuits with your tea?

endacl

Pherekydes wrote: »

...and you can get biscuits with your tea?

Hotblack Desiato

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Straight out of the tap with a bit of hand waving and a quick inthenameofthefathersonaaaandholyghost mumbled over it would be my guess.

Correlation between spread of MRSA and 'holy' water flinging - discuss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_water#Hygiene :eek:

GCU Flexible Demeanour

ninja900 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_water#Hygiene :eek:

That might explain why it's so effective in dealing with vampires.

Duggy747

What happens if you really do believe it's butter?

endacl

Duggy747 wrote: »

What happens if you really do believe it's butter?

Have you evidence that it is in fact butter? If so, your belief is redundant. If you have evidence that it is not butter, yet still believe it is, you're bonkers. If you have no evidence either way, yet still insist based on blind faith that it is butter, well..... there's probably no talking to you.

:P

Duggy747

endacl wrote: »

Have you evidence that it is in fact butter? If so, your belief is redundant. If you have evidence that it is not butter, yet still believe it is, you're bonkers. If you have no evidence either way, yet still insist based on blind faith that it is butter, well..... there's probably no talking to you.

:P

Are you a butter churning expert? Can you disprove it?

Have you ever heard of the analogy..............uh...............what's it called..........Russell's Buttered Toast?

MickFleetwood

ibstar wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos

After watching this I come to realize that maybe we Atheists/Agnostics shouldn't refer to ourselves by the branding that religious organizations name us. As Neil deGrasse Tyson points out, people that don't ski, don't refer to themselves as non-skiers etc.

Any thoughts from the boradsies?

The skiing analogy holds no water. It makes no sense. To call yourself an atheist means you disagree with something that happens to be an overtly popular belief - millions upon millions of humans believe in a deity of sorts. Some countries and states have their entire political and social system integrated somewhat with religion. People have died and suffered in the name of religion.

It's a sort of statement, I guess, to call yourself an atheist, rather than a "non-skier." Tyson is more attempting to state that labeling him as something, which in turn in the eyes of many groups him in with others by default, is a fallacy.

I myself am an agnostic.

endacl

MickFleetwood wrote: »

To call yourself an atheist means you disagree with something that happens to be an overtly popular belief

No it doesn't. It just means you don't share the belief. It's not an opposite position.

You may be thinking of 'anti-theist'.

MickFleetwood

endacl wrote: »

No it doesn't. It just means you don't share the belief. It's not an opposite position.

You may be thinking of 'anti-theist'.

So you wouldn't say that the disbelief of a deity isn't disagreeing with the idea that a deity exists?

The definition of "disagree" is to express or hold a differing opinion. Which is exactly what atheism is to theism.

endacl

MickFleetwood wrote: »

So you wouldn't say that the disbelief of a deity isn't disagreeing with the idea that a deity exists?

Ah, but that's not what you said...