new rules on the way boys and girls

liveandnetural

from Energy Minister, Pat Rabbitte

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/2013/Minister+Rabbitte+moves+to+increase+electrical+safety+in+the+home.htm

Doom

I'd be more in favour of of commercial buildings been checked....seen some awful wiring in those places.

chrismon

liveandnetural wrote: »

from Energy Minister, Pat Rabbitte

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/2013/Minister+Rabbitte+moves+to+increase+electrical+safety+in+the+home.htm

So could I get sent to prison for changing an mbc in my own fuse board?

hufpc8w3adnk65

chrismon wrote: »

So could I get sent to prison for changing an mbc in my own fuse board?

Pretty much ya....here's the exact line..


Once passed it will be illegal for any person other than a Registered Electrical Contractor to carry out such works. A person who is guilty of this offence will be liable:

- On conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €15,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or to both, or

- On summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or to both.

mikehammer67

they prob outlaw bathroom work after that

something like 'part p' in the uk

hard to know what to make of it all


i was reci member for 16 years but a lot of the registered work is pretty bad

chrismon

How is this going to work?
Are they going to re-certify every house noting every electrical point?

eggy81

Is it actually to improve safety or is it to tackle the nixer culture that out of work sparks use to make a few bob at the moment.

.G.

Impossible to police,same as unregistered lads doing alarm work.If people want to use the black market because its cheaper they will,no amount of laws will stop it.

Agree with Mike,just because someone is registered doesn't mean they are flawless,especially with self certification in play,the standard of wiring I've seen in some commercial and residential buildings built during the boom left a lot to be desired,and they were wired by major companies.

If they want to do something meaningful for safety then put proper checks of work in place and end self certification.

nucker

chrismon wrote: »

So could I get sent to prison for changing an mbc in my own fuse board?

I'm sure that if you don't have any qualification of competency, that you can and most likely be in trouble especially if any accidents or fire happen as a result

mikehammer67

eggy81 wrote: »

Is it actually to improve safety or is it to tackle the nixer culture that out of work sparks use to make a few bob at the moment.

dunno really

the guys doing the work will be self-certified with minimum supervision

and of course most do cash work too-same difference there


maybe it's the thin end of a wedge.......it doesn't seem to mean much on it's own anyhow if it can be ignored

chrismon

nucker wrote: »

I'm sure that if you don't have any qualification of competency, that you can and most likely be in trouble especially if any accidents or fire happen as a result

I'm a qualified Sparky .
Will be intesresting to see what way it goes.

nucker

chrismon wrote: »

I'm a qualified Sparky .
Will be intesresting to see what way it goes.

That is good, I'm sure you will be able deal with anything electrical

Although I've dealt with the electronic side of things, I have come across really scary scenarios where people are not that intelligent as they think they are. If I had the option of running out of their house, I sure would of, but work forced me to be "professional" :eek: unfortunately. And these are who the regulations are aimed towards, non qualified people. Thinking of it now, I am still wondering why it took so long for governments to make this law and manufacturers to abide by them for the safety of their consumers

As a heating engineer I have my Part P and the system works well, so it's up to the powers that be, if it doesn't work it won't be because it can't work.

Bruthal

nucker wrote: »

That is good, I'm sure you will be able deal with anything electrical

Although I've dealt with the electronic side of things, I have come across really scary scenarios where people are not that intelligent as they think they are. If I had the option of running out of their house, I sure would of, but work forced me to be "professional" :eek: unfortunately. And these are who the regulations are aimed towards, non qualified people. Thinking of it now, I am still wondering why it took so long for governments to make this law and manufacturers to abide by them for the safety of their consumers

You don't have to be registered to be qualified.

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

As a heating engineer I have my Part P and the system works well, so it's up to the powers that be, if it doesn't work it won't be because it can't work.

Yea so you can get a stiffer sentence as a qualified sparks for changing a faulty MCB in your board, then you might get for smashing a bottle over someone's head.

Which is safest?

Jobs for the lads, nothing more.

Philip82

I wonder will this lead to even unsafer work practices. Example would someone tap into an existing socket circuit to add extra sockets rather than running a new supply back to fuseboard and risk overloading???? Reci have been wanting this to happen for a long time now and its all about getting new members for them and the loss of revenue for the Government due to the nixer trade.

chrismon

Bruthal wrote: »

Yea so you can get a stiffer sentence as a qualified sparks for changing a faulty MCB in your board, then you might get for smashing a bottle over someone's head.

What you in prison for? Ha

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Yea so you can get a stiffer sentence as a qualified sparks for changing a faulty MCB in your board, then you might get for smashing a bottle over someone's head.

Which is safest?

Jobs for the lads, nothing more.

Don't get you.

But if you had Part P here same for same and enforced same for same then installs would be safer and prosecution of fruitloops would be easier.

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

Don't get you.

But if you had Part P here same for same and enforced same for same then installs would be safer and prosecution of fruitloops would be easier.

Is a qualified electrician replacing an MCB in their own board, a fruit loop?

Bruthal

chrismon wrote: »

What you in prison for? Ha

My sins

mikehammer67

yes

what about the registered fruitloops that wired all the celtic tiger houses??

Bruthal

mikehammer67 wrote: »

yes

what about the registered fruitloops that wired all the celtic tiger houses??

Yes. The stuff I fixed next door I mentioned here before, astonishing. And that was just one example.

Purely due to profit by rushing to wire a house in a day. Anyone that thinks safety and good standards was paramount to registered contractors is having a laugh.

How many are killed a year due to bad electrical installations?

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Is a qualified electrician replacing an MCB in their own board, a fruit loop?

What would a qualified sparks have to fear? When Part P came in it wasn't sparks who were worried.

Looking at the wiring that is out there something has to change and having gone through a similar process myself I see the benefits with the right system.

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

What would a qualified sparks have to fear? When Part P came in it wasn't sparks who were worried.

Looking at the wiring that is out there something has to change and having gone through a similar process myself I see the benefits with the right system.

Well the op seems to suggest its getting to the stage where people will have to fear changing a light bulb.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Is a qualified electrician replacing an MCB in their own board, a fruit loop?

A fruitloop is anyone earning money or messing at things they shouldn't be for their sake and their customers/victims sake.

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

A fruitloop is anyone earning money or messing at things they shouldn't be for their sake and their customers/victims sake.

So, a qualified electrician replacing a faulty MCB is not a fruit loop. Grand so.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Well the op seems to suggest its getting to the stage where people will have to fear changing a light bulb.

Same old same old, all the things been said here I was saying ten years ago with both gas as a qualified gas engineer and electrics as a qualified heating engineer, nobody likes change and nobody wants to be told how to suck eggs.

After coming out the other end of my own UK regs I found a it made it harder for fruitloops to work legit and easier to prosecute them if they were messing.

They way it was done in the UK made it easier for anybody working within regulations.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

So, a qualified electrician replacing a faulty MCB is not a fruit loop. Grand so.

If you say so.

Sorry I ment to say no qualified sparks could ever be accused of being fruitloops:D

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

Same old same old, all the things been said here I was saying ten years ago with both gas as a qualified gas engineer and electrics as a qualified heating engineer, nobody likes change and nobody wants to be told how to suck eggs.

After coming out the other end of my own UK regs I found a it made it harder for fruitloops to work legit and easier to prosecute them if they were messing.

They way it was done in the UK made it easier for anybody working within regulations.

So, you think a qualified person should be prosecuted for changing an MCB in his own house, yes or no?

You seem to like that fruit loops phrase.

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

If you say so.

fruitloops:D

There was a driver on the m50 going southbound on the northbound lane before. I believe he thought everyone else was going the wrong way.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

So, you think a qualified person should be prosecuted for changing an MCB in his own house, yes or no?

You seem to like that fruit loops phrase.

Having misread your reply I responded incorrectly I tried to save myself but it didn't work out.

To clarify from my own experiences I don't see how a qualified sparks has anything to fear carrying out any kind of electrical works in a competent manor.

As for "fruitloops" it's a term of indearment I get to use a lot as someone who repairs mistakes made on gas boilers and heating wiring for a living.

SpaceTime

I've encountered a few really crazy jobs done by people chancing their arm.

I remember a kitchen installer who connected or whole new kitchen to a single over fused DZ fuse which was roaring hot to the extent that you'd burn your hand in the fuse carrier.

I also discovered a 30 year old tv distribution amp permanently wired to a lighting circuit under the insulation.

I get problems from time to time with dangerously wired heating systems and it can come as a surprise to the electrician that it's gas regs he/she risks getting prosecuted under.

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

Having misread your reply I responded incorrectly I tried to save myself but it didn't work out.

To clarify from my own experiences I don't see how a qualified sparks has anything to fear carrying out any kind of electrical works in a competent manor.

Perhaps you also misread the original post

As for "fruitloops" it's a term of indearment I get to use a lot as someone who repairs mistakes made on gas boilers and heating wiring for a living.

When I am involved after others "mistakes" terms of endearment are not often in mind I must admit.

SpaceTime

I got a really bad shock when setting up an old time clock when I was in my teens.

The central heating contractor hadn't bothered to connect the earth and the live was contacting the casing.

I was lucky but it left me shaking for hours!

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Perhaps you also misread the original post

I was to busy looking at the traffic going the other way.

Having read the first post properly I would have to say it seems absolutely pointless.

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

I was to busy looking at the traffic going the other way.

Doom

I was asked to look at a neighbours shower, he thought it was knackered and might need a new one, it turned out to be burnt out terminations in the pull cord switch from the wire connections been loose, could have burnt the house down.
We live in an estate all build by same builder, so checked my own shower...loose connections too.
Registered Electricians will make the country safer....ha ha...sure, just like a banking regulators making banking better for all, welcome to the Banana Republic of Ireland.

SpaceTime

No guarantee they weren't done by some chancer on a building site either!

kieran24883

I assume these new rules will exclude the employee/employees of a registered electrical contractor

nucker

kieran24883 wrote: »

I assume these new rules will exclude the employee/employees of a registered electrical contractor

I'm sure they will

SpaceTime

They need to crack down a lot harder on dodgy non compliant and counterfeit wiring devices too.

Although that needs to be done across the entire EU and between the UK, Ireland, Malta and Cyprus for BS type switches, sockets, plugs etc

2011

More about it here:

Statutory Instrument to regulate electrical industry.
The Minister for Energy Pat Rabbitte has at last moved to introduce the Statutory Instrument which will make it unlawful for non registered persons to carry out major electrical works on a domestic installation. Major works are defined as works requiring alterations or additions to the distribution board. Once passed it will be an offence for any person other than a Registered Electrical Contractor to carry out such works. A person who is guilty of the new offence will be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding €15,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or to both, or on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or to both. NECI understand that the CER (Commission for energy regulation) will introduce an advertising campaign to educate the general public of the new offences once the Statutory Instrument has been introduced. This public awareness should result in an increase in work for registered electrical contractors.

While the above is to be welcomed, it is difficult to understand why the new offences only apply for domestic installations. It is also difficult to understand why the restrictions do not apply to the entire scope of electrical works. Incredibly it will not an offence for unqualified and untrained persons to carry out works on Commercial and Industrial electrical installations of any size. NECI will continue to lobby the CER to introduce the new rules across the entire range of electrical works.

From what I was told recently this will be extended to all electrical installations in time including commercial, industrial and potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX). They started with domestic as this is where most of the nixers and poor quality work is found.

chrismon

Must start doing industrial nixers lol.
They should either restrict everything or nothing.

2011

chrismon wrote: »

Must start doing industrial nixers lol.
They should either restrict everything or nothing.

It is a process. Believe me they will restrict everything.
Let's be honest, there are not many industrial nixers on offer

YuM

Does this mean that NI Electricians or the Brother in law whose been a spark in England for the last 15 years can't do a new run for me now? Or is any EU registered electrician ok?

hufpc8w3adnk65

Good too see them trying too regulate the work!

2011

YuM wrote: »

Does this mean that NI Electricians or the Brother in law whose been a spark in England for the last 15 years can't do a new run for me now? Or is any EU registered electrician ok?

Of course they can once they register and become familiar with our regulations.

Unfortunately we have lots of "experts" that have all sorts of "experience" carrying out work to a very poor and frequently dangerous standard.

This is an attempt to solve that and increase tax revenue.

Many say that some registered electrical contractors cut corners themselves. I have said it myself, but I would guess that the main offenders are the people doing nixers, the unqualified and electricians trained in other countries that are unfamiliar with our regulations.

This would be typical of the type of problem that we see all too often from unregistered electricians.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Of course they can once they register and become familiar with our regulations.

Unfortunately we have lots of "experts" that have all sorts of "experience" carrying out work to a very poor and frequently dangerous standard.

This is an attempt to solve that and increase tax revenue.

Many say that some registered electrical contractors cut corners themselves. I have said it myself, but I would guess that the main offenders are the people doing nixers, the unqualified and electricians trained in other countries that are unfamiliar with our regulations.

This would be typical of the type of problem that we see all too often from unregistered electricians.

I think that bit is the only factor of concern to them. How many are killed each year in homes due to bad electrics? Its probably not even 1 a year. If saving lives was priority, there are other areas with far more casualties where efforts could be focused.

But they would cost money rather than netting more, something like a go safe van monitoring a dual carriageway that has a 40kph limit, a safe stretch off road, but with a silly limit ideal for revenue generation.

mikehammer67

might keep the plumbers away from connecting the electric showers anyway

i've seen various bodges over the years at the DB

Bruthal

Well I remember the registered contractor effort I fixed next door which I described in detail here before. So the rules didn't stop them leaving a live earth brought about by a plasterboard nail without properly fixing it. And they obviously knew about it shown by their quick shortcut fix, but probably only the actual site sparks did know, not main contractor himself.

Now if the penalty for an electrician to replace an mcb is years in prison, what for the above? Guillotine perhaps?