Paying high road tax for a car I can't drive on poor irish roads

Whatnuclearsub

I pay 1500 euros a year in road tax/motor tax but can't drive my car on a lot of the roads because they are so bad. The poor quality roads destroy my car and I have had a consistent maintenance bill because of them. I have finally given in and I am buying a jeep, but will still be paying the high tax. I wouldn't mind paying such high road tax/motortax if it meant the roads were being maintained to an acceptable standard! Anyone else feel hard done by?

Guy:Incognito

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

I pay 1500 euros a year in road tax/motor tax but can't drive my car on a lot of the roads because they are so bad. The poor quality roads destroy my car and I have had a consistent maintenance bill because of them. I have finally given in and I am buying a jeep, but will still be paying the high tax. I wouldn't mind paying such high road tax/motortax if it meant the roads were being maintained to an acceptable standard! Anyone else feel hard done by?

JUst like was pointed out in the other thread , motor tax ( putting road tax beside it doesnt change anything) isnt ringfenced for roads so theres no relation between paying motor tax and roads. All the money the council gets from various sources goes to a big pot and is allocated to different projects ( roads included)

Ded_Zebra

Whatnuclearsub

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

JUst like was pointed out in the other thread , motor tax ( putting road tax beside it doesnt change anything) isnt ringfenced for roads so theres no relation between paying motor tax and roads. All the money the council gets from various sources goes to a big pot and is allocated to different projects ( roads included)

Yes this may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that I am paying huge motor tax for a car I can't use because the money from the big pot isn't being used on the roads. If I pay motortax to use the car on public roads I expect to be able to use it on public roads, which I cant!

coolbeans

An off roader won't solve your problems, only increase all your motoring bills. Where are you living? Maybe just slow down and avoid the holes. Mechanical sympathy goes a long way in my experience.

Guy:Incognito

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

Yes this may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that I am paying huge motor tax for a car I can't use because the money from the big pot isn't being used on the roads. If I pay motortax to use the car on public roads I expect to be able to use it on public roads, which I cant!

You may aswell give out about the property tax on the same grounds because its as relevant to roads as motor tax is

Whatnuclearsub

coolbeans wrote: »

An off roader won't solve your problems, only increase all your motoring bills. Where are you living? Maybe just slow down and avoid the holes. Mechanical sympathy goes a long way in my experience.

I have a 3 litre Z4, going to an off roader will actually be cheaper for me, better mpg, slightly cheaper road tax and much less maintenance bills I suspect! I live in Meath.

Whatnuclearsub

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You may aswell give out about the property tax on the same grounds because its as relevant to roads as motor tax is

Not really, motor tax is more relevant than property tax. I contribute more to motor tax and the big pot to drive on public roads because I drive a sports car, a sports car I can't use on public roads.

Supergurrier

Welcome to Ireland

ba_barabus

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

I contribute more to motor tax and the big pot to drive on public roads because I drive a sports car, a sports car I can't use on public roads

No you contribute based on the size of your engine.

Like the rest of us.

Why not buy a smaller engines car if you don't like the running costs?

coolisin

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

I have a 3 litre Z4, going to an off roader will actually be cheaper for me, better mpg, slightly cheaper road tax and much less maintenance bills I suspect! I live in Meath.

Going to an off roader for better MPG haha, unless your buying a jimny it won't be much better I'm afraid.

As for your whining I drive a 3ltr bmw also, I also have a 1.4 car both fully legal, so I technically pay around €1800 a year motor tax.

It is crazy with the state of this country I understand the money is paying off the IMF etc etc while I look at wheels being damaged.

I try to avoid potholes it's what I have to live with not what I want to live with.

biko

You pay high motor tax because you went and got a 3 litre car. Or the emissions if the car if newer model. Either way, it's a choice you made yourself.

Sure, get a jeep but the tax will probably be high on that too depending on engine size, but at least it'll handle the country roads better than a z4.

mb1725

I love the inevitable reaction on here when someone uses the phrase 'road tax'. Reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk

mickdw

I don't really buy the whole argument of roads being too bad to drive on.
I'm in North mayo which would not be known for the quality of its roads but they wouldnt be so bad that they would make the decision on what kind of car i buy. Lots of high performance cars can be used here. Porsches work really well actually.
A z4 on run flats would just about be the worst thing I can think of though for country roads, even roads in good condition.

Lantus

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

I have a 3 litre Z4, going to an off roader will actually be cheaper for me, better mpg, slightly cheaper road tax and much less maintenance bills I suspect! I live in Meath.

Sports cars are a bad choice in this country due to the poor roads except one or two newer routes. Presumably you knew this though when you purchasd it??

Any 'normal' car will suffice. You dont need to get a 4x4 unless you have 20 miles of dirt track and swamp to contend with on a daily basis.

You can get some fantastic cars that will provide an excellant drive for next to nothing tax and fuel and running costs. If you are obsessed with another extreme vehicle type then the new RAV4 delivers fairly good economy for its class. But you dont really need one, a focus or passat or golf would do the same job just as well at a fraction of the cost.

Supergurrier

I hear down the pub the 1.6d qashqui is a might jeep

Cienciano

I have sympathy OP, but the only solution is to get rid of the car. You can't have a nice car (talking about second hand down the years) unless you're willing to fork out the tax. It's poxy and I doubt you'll find anyone that thinks our motor tax is a good and fair system

osheen

Supergurrier wrote: »

I hear down the pub the 1.6d qashqui is a might jeep

She'll pull 5 ton acroos the hill and only use a fiver of juice . nearly as good as the vw teedeeeye

bazz26

Sure start a Facebook petition, that will sort it.

ardmacha

Whatever the limitations about the motor tax system, you can pay a lot less, you have a choice.

And the government has supposedly diverted some funds towards repairs, this is the weather for the job.

Failing that, one of these might deal with the potholes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp9q_2uIk-M

CiniO

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

Yes this may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that I am paying huge motor tax for a car I can't use because the money from the big pot isn't being used on the roads. If I pay motortax to use the car on public roads I expect to be able to use it on public roads, which I cant!

I can't really see any relation.

Assume there wasn't any motortax to be paid.
Would you not expect to be able to use the public roads then?

Public roads should be in good state, as they are base for our wellbeing.

But motortax has very little to do with it.

Whatnuclearsub

Ok, so does't look like anyone agrees with me. It baffles me how people can't make the link between motor tax and public roads. In order to use public roads you have to pay motor tax. Like everything else in life if I pay to use something, I expect to be able to use whatever I payed to use.

Ignoring the finances of the argument, it's next to impossible to have a sports car in Ireland simply because of the quality of the roads. Simply because of this I am having to change my car.

Taking the finances into account, I am changing to a jeep which will cost me the same in motor tax but at least I will be able to use it.

This has been my experience of owning a sports car in Ireland. You can't!

Ded_Zebra

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

Ok, so does't look like anyone agrees with me. It baffles me how people can't make the link between motor tax and public roads. In order to use public roads you have to pay motor tax. Like everything else in life if I pay to use something, I expect to be able to use whatever I payed to use.

Ignoring the finances of the argument, it's next to impossible to have a sports car in Ireland simply because of the quality of the roads. Simply because of this I am having to change my car.

Taking the finances into account, I am changing to a jeep which will cost me the same in motor tax but at least I will be able to use it.

This has been my experience of owning a sports car in Ireland. You can't!

As people have said, Motor tax is a tax on the Luxury item that is a car. It has nothing to do with the maintenance of the roads unfortunately.

I would suggest to move to Wicklow, The roads are nice and smooth here

djimi

Of course you can own a sports car in Ireland; plenty of people do. My car might feel a bit rough driving on some of the smaller roads out in the backarse of beyond where I grew up, but for the most part its not an issue. The roads in Ireland are far from perfect, but its not like its a requirement to own a 4x4 just to be able to drive on them.

HandsomeDan

Beggers cant be choosers op. Odds are the upkeep of your road is paid for mostly by people who will never drive on it.

zenno

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

I pay 1500 euros a year in road tax/motor tax but can't drive my car on a lot of the roads because they are so bad. The poor quality roads destroy my car and I have had a consistent maintenance bill because of them. I have finally given in and I am buying a jeep, but will still be paying the high tax. I wouldn't mind paying such high road tax/motortax if it meant the roads were being maintained to an acceptable standard! Anyone else feel hard done by?

Hey man, don't mind all that stuff about getting stone clippings on the cosmetics and all the bad news about the roads...3 years ago i looked at this small old snot-green Mitsubishi colt gl and said... well fcuk me, the thing is in bits, so i bought it for 700 euro and it's still going grand till this day after 1 service, so....

My point is, buy a piece af sh!t of a small car @ 1.4L as the tax for this particular car is €404 per year and that's on renewing it every 3 months.

€1,500 a year to tax the car is insane. If it looks clean and even if it's small, if it can get you comfortably from point A to point B then that's all that counts, unless you want to keep up with the Joneses.

dr.fuzzenstein

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

Ok, so does't look like anyone agrees with me. It baffles me how people can't make the link between motor tax and public roads. In order to use public roads you have to pay motor tax. Like everything else in life if I pay to use something, I expect to be able to use whatever I payed to use.

You see what happened here is explained in this picture:
(basically the people had it bate into them that road tax has nothing to do with roads and even the newcomers now believe that hogwash. Soon you will beat up the new monkeys for straying up that ladder. In the meantime "yeah, stupid, how can anyone think motortax is related to roads, harrumph, down with the OP, etc...)



And Irish top tip: Talk to your local politicians, it is a long standing tradition for them to fix the road in exchange for votes.
Some of the more shrewd politicians pick out roads they know are scheduled to be fixed, then canvas along those roads, promising he'll fix it.

Whatnuclearsub

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

As people have said, Motor tax is a tax on the Luxury item that is a car. It has nothing to do with the maintenance of the roads unfortunately.

I would suggest to move to Wicklow, The roads are nice and smooth here

Yes as other people have incorrectly said. If the tax was on the luxury item, the car then I would pay this tax when I bought the car.

The tax is not for having a motor either, because I can drive my car day in day out in my back garden if I want to and not pay any tax.

The only time I pay tax is when I want to use my car on the public road. I am paying motor tax to use my car on a public road.

Chris_Heilong

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

Yes as other people have incorrectly said. If the tax was on the luxury item, the car then I would pay this tax when I bought the car.

The tax is not for having a motor either, because I can drive my car day in day out in my back garden if I want to and not pay any tax.

The only time I pay tax is when I want to use my car on the public road. I am paying motor tax to use my car on a public road.

It dose not really matter but I agree with you, at least half of the motor tax take should go towards road maintenance and larger public carparks and other stuff that makes living in Ireland a little easier for us, the people, but greedy politicians have made it so we have stupid expenses, projects and schemes happening that they just take as many TAXES as they can to pay for these and thats not counting the large percentage that is heading to Germany.

Joe 90

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

Ok, so does't look like anyone agrees with me. It baffles me how people can't make the link between motor tax and public roads. In order to use public roads you have to pay motor tax. Like everything else in life if I pay to use something, I expect to be able to use whatever I payed to use.

Ignoring the finances of the argument, it's next to impossible to have a sports car in Ireland simply because of the quality of the roads. Simply because of this I am having to change my car.

Taking the finances into account, I am changing to a jeep which will cost me the same in motor tax but at least I will be able to use it.

This has been my experience of owning a sports car in Ireland. You can't!

I would think that an Evo with appropriate suspension would work pretty well.
Had the Exige home a few years back, it was in fact OK most places, although visiting friends in some of the more out of the way places in Donegal required parking sensibly and walking the last half mile or so,

CiniO

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

Ok, so does't look like anyone agrees with me. It baffles me how people can't make the link between motor tax and public roads. In order to use public roads you have to pay motor tax.

That's not entirely true.
You can walk on the road without paying a tax.
You can cycle without paying tax.
You can hop on a bus, and while you pay for ticket, you don't directly pay motortax, however bus company does - so maybe it's not a best example.
But you possibly buy lots of products which were brought to the shops by foreign registered trucks which never paid motortax in Ireland. By buying those products you make use of the roads....

CiniO

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You see what happened here is explained in this picture:
(basically the people had it bate into them that road tax has nothing to do with roads and even the newcomers now believe that hogwash. Soon you will beat up the new monkeys for straying up that ladder. In the meantime "yeah, stupid, how can anyone think motortax is related to roads, harrumph, down with the OP, etc...)

To be honest with you, I am from a country where we don't pay any motor tax.

When I moved to Ireland I discovered we need to pay motortax on our vehicles. (exception is if we don't use them in public places).
How should I assume that this is a tax which is meant to pay for road maintenance?

gw80

Whatnuclearsub wrote: »

Ok, so does't look like anyone agrees with me. It baffles me how people can't make the link between motor tax and public roads. In order to use public roads you have to pay motor tax. Like everything else in life if I pay to use something, I expect to be able to use whatever I payed to use.

Ignoring the finances of the argument, it's next to impossible to have a sports car in Ireland simply because of the quality of the roads. Simply because of this I am having to change my car.

Taking the finances into account, I am changing to a jeep which will cost me the same in motor tax but at least I will be able to use it.

This has been my experience of owning a sports car in Ireland. You can't!

I feel your pain op, I know exactly what you mean, some people arent into cars and just see them as tools to get from A to B and wont understand what the problem is,

But for people who enjoy cars the same way some people are into soccer or gaa and are willing to pay extortionate amounts of tax for the pleasure its a pain in the backside dealing with some of the roads in this country, and dont get me started on speed ramps:mad:

dr.fuzzenstein

CiniO wrote: »

To be honest with you, I am from a country where we don't pay any motor tax.

When I moved to Ireland I discovered we need to pay motortax on our vehicles. (exception is if we don't use them in public places).
How should I assume that this is a tax which is meant to pay for road maintenance?

The clue is in the name?
I naively believed that at first, until I found out that any tax used just swell the state coffers and to be wasted on various public service and union financial black holes and now just goes to pay off billionaire bankers who pulled a conjob on this country, alongside public service and union financial black holes.
The rest is spent on Sean from the council to shovel grit into potholes and to jump on them a bit so it will hold till next week. Maybe...

Guy:Incognito

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The clue is in the name?
..

How does motor tax imply its used to build and maintain roads?

Road tax may imply that, which is why we dont have a tax called that ..........

As for swelling state coffers and going to bankers and other such rabble rabble stuff, it doesn't go beyond the coffers of the council you pay it too afaik and councils aren't paying bondholders.

CiniO

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The clue is in the name?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How does motor tax imply its used to build and maintain roads?

Road tax may imply that, which is why we dont have a tax called that ..........

I don't think I hear a name "road tax" for the first while I was here.
Possibly first time I heard it was when I joined this forum

Sofiztikated

Where the hell are you driving that you have to swap a Z4 for an SUV?

There is a range of cars inbetween that that would/should suit you. And no, I'm not suggesting a 1.4 golf. Why not an M saloon/coupe? Audi Allroad? Subaru Forrester?

And no, you won't particularly save in maintenace. SUV's require upkeep as well.

mb1725

CiniO wrote: »

I don't think I hear a name "road tax" for the first while I was here.
Possibly first time I heard it was when I joined this forum

Every advert on Done Deal quotes 'Road tax'. Motorcheck also uses the term : http://www.motorcheck.ie/faqs/can-you-check-its-motor-tax-status/

Makes no difference what you call it, still has to be paid.

Marcin_diy

I was driving in France, Germany, Holland, Spain, and I don't think that quality of roads here is worse than in other parts of Europe except Germany.
ok - roads are not too wide and narrow, but there are not more holes than in other countries.

My car has 130k kms on the clock, and suspension is in very good condition ( checked and tested in a garage) Thats a good result, in my home country suspension wouldn't last for so long.

I don't care what motor tax is used for to be honest, as I know worse roads abroad. What I'm annoyed with is the fact, that owners of older cars are punished for the fact that they can't afford new car and need to pay more for motor tax.
I'm also angry about paying 710 euro per year and extra 90 euro for paying tax every 3 months. Where is that 90 euro coming from - I have no idea. What are these interests for??

Also I'm not happy with fact that government is killing peoples dreams about nice cars.
They are more expensive than in other european countries cos of VRT, + all that green bulsh&^t that kills motor industry.

Why people in UK can drive nice v8 engine cars and pay 200£ for motor tax and here it is a month salary to pay this stupid tax....
I don't get it.

Why people who drive their nice cars on sunday when they drive to the church need to pay much more than nissan micra owners, who drive 200km per day?

dr.fuzzenstein

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How does motor tax imply its used to build and maintain roads?

Road tax may imply that, which is why we dont have a tax called that ..........

As for swelling state coffers and going to bankers and other such rabble rabble stuff, it doesn't go beyond the coffers of the council you pay it too afaik and councils aren't paying bondholders.

How doesn't it?

Guy:Incognito

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

How doesn't it?

I thought I covered it quite well in the post you quoted. If it was called road tax then some could be forgiven for thinking it goes towards maintaining roads.motor tax implies its a tax on owning and/or using a car and doesnt specify what its used for.

For Forks Sake

mb1725 wrote: »

Every advert on Done Deal quotes 'Road tax'. Motorcheck also uses the term : http://www.motorcheck.ie/faqs/can-you-check-its-motor-tax-status/

Makes no difference what you call it, still has to be paid.

That's their mistake. http://www.motortax.ie being the official site, I fail to see the confusion.

dr.fuzzenstein

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I thought I covered it quite well in the post you quoted. If it was called road tax then some could be forgiven for thinking it goes towards maintaining roads.motor tax implies its a tax on owning and/or using a car and doesnt specify what its used for.

djimi

I think that there are some people in this thread who are trying a bit too hard to look clever tbh. While I know full well how motor tax is actually used, I dont think that it is at all unreasonable to assume/expect that a tax that is collected for using public roads is put back into the maintenance of said roads. When you smack your car into a large pothole en route to the tax office to pay your motor tax, I think you are entirely justified in wondering why you bother...

Guy:Incognito

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's only splitting hairs if you need that to suit an arguement. Its called motor tax, officially. The fact that people gave it another name is irrelevant.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

I dont think that it is at all unreasonable to assume/expect that a tax that is collected for using public roads is put back into the maintenance of said roads.

Honestly, I don't see any grounds for coming to that conclusion. It's not even a tax on using public roads, it's a tax on using a car on public roads.

Guy:Incognito

djimi wrote: »

I think that there are some people in this thread who are trying a bit too hard to look clever tbh. While I know full well how motor tax is actually used, I dont think that it is at all unreasonable to assume/expect that a tax that is collected for using public roads is put back into the maintenance of said roads. When you smack your car into a large pothole en route to the tax office to pay your motor tax, I think you are entirely justified in wondering why you bother...

Why bother paying income tax if the country is rum perfectly? Why pay for the ticket for the bus or luas if its dirty or late , sure just jump on for free.

djimi

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why bother paying income tax if the country is rum perfectly? Why pay for the ticket for the bus or luas if its dirty or late , sure just jump on for free.

So you are telling me that at no point in your life have you ever paid a tax bill, been in a situation where you see no benefit from said tax, and wondered why you bother?

Im not intending to have a rant about tax or the government or whatever, Im just pointing out that its human nature. We pay to drive our car on the road; the least we can expect is that the the roads are in decent shape. If they are not, we are entitled to question why.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

Honestly, I don't see any grounds for coming to that conclusion. It's not even a tax on using public roads, it's a tax on using a car on public roads.

Pedantic much?

If you dont see any grounds for coming to that conclusion then more power to you. Most people when they pay for something naturally expect that they money they pay goes towards what they are paying for. I know that in reality that is not the case when it comes to tax, but I really dont see how its an unrealistic expectation/assumption.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

Pedantic much?

If you dont see any grounds for coming to that conclusion then more power to you. Most people when they pay for something naturally expect that they money they pay goes towards what they are paying for. I know that in reality that is not the case when it comes to tax, but I really dont see how its an unrealistic expectation/assumption.

You've just answered your own question - it's unrealistic because we know that it's not the reality. We do pay for the roads, and we do have a right to expect that they be in decent shape, but this has no more to do with motor tax than with VAT, or income tax, for example.

dr.fuzzenstein

Anan1 wrote: »

You've just answered your own question - it's unrealistic because we know that it's not the reality. We do pay for the roads, and we do have a right to expect that they be in decent shape, but this has no more to do with motor tax than with VAT, or income tax, for example.

Yes, we know that, but it would seem that the OP didn't.
I get where you're coming from, but I still would argue that a tax that I pay to be allowed to use my car on a public road would give out the impression that said tax might possibly be used for the upkeep of that road.
I would hardly think that VAT charged on babies nappies would go towards fixing potholes, but there you go...