Cycling on the N11

ozzy jr

Thinking of Cycling down to Brittas Bay. What's the N11 dual carriageway like on a bike?

Is there a better alternative route? Obviously I'll have to leave it for the Motorway sections.

I'll be joining the road at the junction where the road from Enniskerry joins.

spank_inferno

Exit at Greystones and take the coast road south.

Its longer but once you get through Wicklow town its quite pleasent.

BrianHenryIE

I sometimes cycle it to Wicklow Town. From Dublin city-centre out to Loughlinstown there's a bike lane all the way, then you're on the motorway and it's plane sailing south. I feel safer cycling the motorway than the coast road south of Greystones. You've a hard-shoulder the whole way to Wicklow Town, soon after the road narrows and I wouldn't recommend sticking around for that (accident black spot) though I've never cycled it myself.

buffalo

Cycling on the motorway and mixing it up with 120kmph hour traffic is not only incredibly stupid, it's also illegal.

BrianHenryIE

buffalo wrote: »

Cycling on the motorway and mixing it up with 120kmph hour traffic is not only incredibly stupid, it's also illegal.

Arrest me. It's practically the same as cycling on the N11 sections but you didn't warn anyone against that. As I pointed out, the motorway is safer than later sections of the same road, and I feel safer where I'm visible with my own lane than on the back roads where cars come fast around tree-covered corners without any space for me to swerve into.

Neeson

It's actually illegal though. So if the Gardai pass by you probably could be arrested or fined or something.

ozzy jr

brian.henry wrote: »

I feel safer cycling the motorway than the coast road south of Greystones.

:eek:

You mean the dual carriageway south of Greystones?

Edit, no you mean Motorway.

Ole Rodrigo

brian.henry wrote: »

Arrest me. It's practically the same as cycling on the N11 sections but you didn't warn anyone against that. As I pointed out, the motorway is safer than later sections of the same road, and I feel safer where I'm visible with my own lane than on the back roads where cars come fast around tree-covered corners without any space for me to swerve into.

Why cant you go through Bray, Greystones and on to Kilcoole, NewCastle and Rathdrum then on to Wicklow and Brittas. Nice route away from the main road. Not to mention the Motorway.

You cant break the law so you can feel safer - its there to keep you out of danger. I've cycled that route a fair few times and its perfectly safe.

Highway_To_Hell

ror_74 wrote: »

Why cant you go through Bray, Greystones and on to Kilcoole, NewCastle and Rathdrum then on to Wicklow and Brittas. Nice route away from the main road. Not to mention the Motorway.

Did this route (return)today for the first time, I didn't feel like going into the hills and wanted a flat run. Lovely scenic road and very little traffic but there are sections where the road surface isn't great and really felt the road through the bike to the point where my under carriage got quite numb. But with the weather so good I still enjoyed the spin.

I have cycled the N11 sections in the past, and while the road surface is great it can be quite windy, from now on I will be taking the more scenic and safer route when I want to stay out of the hills.

Alias G

It is most definitely not safe to cycle on a motorway when you have to negotiate slip-roads merging on your LHS where motor cars will be building up speed in order to join the motorway and not looking out for errant cyclists.

As suggested already take the coast road all the way. Far more enjoyable cycle although as you pass Brittas Bay the road degenerates into a minefield of potholes.

BrianHenryIE

http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/196724314/4938805

No helmet. Handy 33 km/h.

Alias G

brian.henry wrote: »

http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/196724314/4938805

No helmet. Handy 33 km/h.

As if a helmet would be any use to you if you were in a crash on your bike while travelling on a motorway.

Mycroft H

Can't believe people are stupid enough to cycle on the motorway. Potential Darwin award winner....

A_Sober_Paddy

BX 19 wrote: »

Can't believe people are stupid enough to cycle on the motorway. Potential Darwin award winner....

If you cycle them currently you'll be grand...now I'm only basing that off the motorway to Ennis

Cookie_Monster

Alias G wrote: »

It is most definitely not safe to cycle on a motorway when you have to negotiate slip-roads merging on your LHS where motor cars will be building up speed in order to join the motorway and not looking out for errant cyclists.

yet the non motorway section with exactly the same slip ways are fine eh?

OP the DC is fine to cycle on, just boring. The stretch from Fassaroe to Delganey exit is alright, it's tedious after that though.

buffalo wrote: »

Cycling on the motorway and mixing it up with 120kmph hour traffic is not only incredibly stupid, it's also illegal.

where did he say he was doing that, he specifically mentions leaving the motorway section.
EDIT: realised it's not aimed at the OP but other poster.

Alias G

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yet the non motorway section with exactly the same slip ways are fine eh?.

I never said they were fine, in some instances they are not. There should be a significant difference in the speed that traffic is travelling at in any case.

Besides, who in their right mind cycles on a dual carriageway for recreation. I'm pretty sure I inhale enough carbon monoxide as it is.

Cookie_Monster

Alias G wrote: »

There should be a significant difference in the speed that traffic is travelling at in any case.

why?
cars are going to be going from 50ish to 100+ in both cases, no appreciable speed difference really.

Alias G wrote: »

Besides, who in their right mind cycles on a dual carriageway for recreation. I'm pretty sure I inhale enough carbon monoxide as it is.

means to an end

miller50841

brian.henry wrote: »

Arrest me. It's practically the same as cycling on the N11 sections but you didn't warn anyone against that. As I pointed out, the motorway is safer than later sections of the same road, and I feel safer where I'm visible with my own lane than on the back roads where cars come fast around tree-covered corners without any space for me to swerve into.

Say no more your one of those ones that believe they actually own the road.

Fair play to cycling I also cycle myself but wouldn't enter dangerous practices such as what you think is ok.

Alias G

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why?
cars are going to be going from 50ish to 100+ in both cases, no appreciable speed difference really.

Hence why I argued that the layout of some DC's weren't always conducive to safe cycling either. But the speeds should typically be lower, enough to make a significant impact on braking and reaction times. It can sometimes depend on local conditions/traffic volumes more so than the actual road designation. I've cycled on DC's that had no hard shoulder which were far more dangerous to be on than any motorway but technically I was entirely within my rights to travel on them.

And nobody is trundling along at 50 when joining a motorway. By the time you are merging you should be up to speed ie 120kph. Thats what the slip road is there for.

kenmc

Friday till midnight.....

650Ginge

BX 19 wrote: »

Can't believe people are stupid enough to cycle on the motorway. Potential Darwin award winner....

Yup there is something retarded about the posts on this thread. Cycling on a motorway is illegal for safety reasons. I personally think that is a good law.

As pointed out the on and off ramps will be lethal.

BeepBeep67

I bikemute from Wicklow Town to Cherrywood occasionally and you have a few options coming from Enniskerry.

Let's look at leaving Enniskerry 1st.

1. Exit at the main Enniskerry junction, head North to to the flyover and then back onto the Southbound N11.
2. Go up past Powerscourt, over the narrow bridge and left at the Y junction, go on for a mile and a bit, take a left and go over the N11 at the Kilcroney junction.
From there you can enter the N11 south or head down the Southern Cross and in to Greystones.
3. Finally take the left at the Y junction after Powerscourt, top of the hill turn left and you'll end up on the Roundwood road, north of Healy Pottery, so it's down the hill and over the Kilmac flyover.

Option 1 is probably the quickest.

If you decide to stay on the N11 it's fine, just a few junctions to navigate, it's a very popular route so you tag on to a group. You'll need to exit at Coynes Cross and follow the old N11 into Ashford - Rathnew.

Greystones - Kilcoole - Newcastle - Rathnew is a nice spin, road surface isn't great in places and you have several options to take a left from the N11.

Once in Rathnew you can either head through Wicklow Town and out the coast road or continue up the old N11 and rejoin the main road as the Motorway section ends, then it's a straight run to Jack White's pub and left into Brittas exiting at the South Beach Car Park.

My choice would be leave Enniskerry via option 3, join the N11, go through Ashford, back onto the main road, turn at Jack Whites and then come home the coast road. Nice loop and mainly left hand turns.

Idleater

650Ginge wrote: »

Yup there is something retarded about the posts on this thread. Cycling on a motorway is illegal for safety reasons. I personally think that is a good law.

As pointed out the on and off ramps will be lethal.

What about the n2 outbound past finglas, and other national roads built to motorway standard but not designated as such?

At best (worst) cycling on a motorway is illegal, but not inherently dangerous (more dangerous than an equivalent n road).
As others have pointed out it is also pretty boring to cycle in comparison to some scenic back roads but lets not get carried away handing out Darwin awards just yet.

ozzy jr

I've put my route into a couple of different route planners. One of them is sending me along the Bray - Greystones cliff walk. I've never done that before, is it suitable for a road bike?

ThisRegard

Idleater wrote: »

What about the n2 outbound past finglas, and other national roads built to motorway standard but not designated as such?
.

The N2 becomes 120kph (motorway?) just after the first exit after the M50 at Coldwinters. It used to be much further down.

BeepBeep67

ozzy jr wrote: »

I've put my route into a couple of different route planners. One of them is sending me along the Bray - Greystones cliff walk. I've never done that before, is it suitable for a road bike?

Nope, unless you like carrying it!

vicwatson

brian.henry wrote: »

Arrest me. It's practically the same as cycling on the N11 sections but you didn't warn anyone against that. As I pointed out, the motorway is safer than later sections of the same road, and I feel safer where I'm visible with my own lane than on the back roads where cars come fast around tree-covered corners without any space for me to swerve into.

If I see you on the motorway you'll be getting stopped by the Gardai, ridiculous.

LennoxR

Cycling on dual carriageways is legal but dull and very unpleasant and if there are lots of exits, pretty dangerous too. (the worst on that score is probably the road back from Maynooth into Dublin).

As for a motorway, just why? Having said that on the W200 in 2004 in the days when you had a mass start I was in massive group of several hundred that mistakenly ended up on the motorway bypassing Bray early in the day. I guiltily say it was lovely surface. But I'd never use it on my own. It's death wish stuff.

I'd use the coast road, to head down to Brittas. R761 and R750 to be technical about it. Lovely quiet back road. https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=greystones&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x4867af3190e0c529:0xa00c7a997321720,Greystones,+Co.+Wicklow&gl=ie&ei=_enXUbWsGMO2hAeukICgAQ&ved=0CKkBELYD

Darkglasses

LennoxR wrote: »

As for a motorway, just why?

This for me. Why on Earth would you want to? There's some of the nicest cycling routes in Ireland around there.

Cookie_Monster

650Ginge wrote: »

Yup there is something retarded about the posts on this thread. Cycling on a motorway is illegal for safety reasons. I personally think that is a good law.

As pointed out the on and off ramps will be lethal.

Its not for safety, if it was you wouldnt be able to cycle on 100 or 120 kph DCs.

You also get the same slip type exits on DCs even in 60 and 80 zones.

You cant cycle on motorways because of the legal definition, thats the only reason.

BofaDeezNuhtz

Oh gud jaysizz

Mycroft H

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Its not for safety, if it was you wouldnt be able to cycle on 100 or 120 kph DCs.

You also get the same slip type exits on DCs even in 60 and 80 zones.

You cant cycle on motorways because of the legal definition, thats the only reason.

I'm not even bothered pointing out the wrong here. Daft

Idleater

BX 19 wrote: »

I'm not even bothered pointing out the wrong here. Daft

Go on, humour us. What exactly is different between the the first exit from the n2 after finglas and whatever junction that is under debate on the n/m11?

Apart from the legal definition and the colour of the signs.

Alias G

Idleater wrote: »

Go on, humour us. What exactly is different between the the first exit from the n2 after finglas and whatever junction that is under debate on the n/m11?

Apart from the legal definition and the colour of the signs.

Well you wouldn't want your Granny or your Girlfriend taking on either junction imo. Both are designed to merge motorised traffic seamlessly and at high speed. You need to be fully alert to whats going on on your inside left.
The higher speed limit on motorways make them more dangerous for obvious reasons. Where motorways have a reduced speed limit similar to a DC, it is due to local conditions such as reduced sight lines or high traffic volume. Motorway junctions are inherently more dangerous for this reason.

Alias G

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Its not for safety, if it was you wouldnt be able to cycle on 100 or 120 kph DCs.

I have never come across a 120 speed limit in this country that wasn't motorway. Do you have any examples of such?

cython

Alias G wrote: »

I have never come across a 120 speed limit in this country that wasn't motorway. Do you have any examples of such?

As much as I hate Wikipedia as a source, this does collect the details the most succinctly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-quality_dual_carriageway#High_Quality_Dual_Carriageways_with_Motorway_Speed_Limits_in_Ireland

Plastik

Leaving Cork east bound heading for Waterford/Rosslare has a few sections of 120kph. It isn't a motorway.

Alias G

cython wrote: »

As much as I hate Wikipedia as a source, this does collect the details the most succinctly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-quality_dual_carriageway#High_Quality_Dual_Carriageways_with_Motorway_Speed_Limits_in_Ireland

Fair enough. Three sections of road which in their entirety consist of not more than a few miles in the whole country.

Bunnyhopper

Idleater wrote: »

Go on, humour us. What exactly is different between the the first exit from the n2 after finglas and whatever junction that is under debate on the n/m11?

Apart from the legal definition and the colour of the signs.

Drivers' expectations are different.

Glencarraig

So would the gob****e who was cycling northbound on the M11 today at around 12.00 and who decided that it was ok to go as far as the ramp for the N11 at Loughlinstown care to share his or her reasoning for doing such a stupid thing?

Idleater

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

Drivers' expectations are different.

As in the unexpected?

Seriously, I'm not arguing legality nor suggesting that any rules be amended, I'm just putting forward some other view points, as an advanced driver.

Nothing absolves the driver of a motorised vehicle of their responsibility to ensure that they can control their vehicles and not endanger others, including the clowns driving the wrong way down the motorway (see the n25 thread) an aa man fixing a vehicle in the hard shoulder, or a lost or intentional cyclist not being where they should be.

Of course, the cyclists will come out worse in any accident, but fundamentally, there is no difference in road layout or speed.

Alias G

Idleater wrote: »

but fundamentally, there is no difference in road layout or speed.

With the exception of roughly 4 or 5 miles in the entire country, dual carriageway is restricted to 100kph. There is most definitely a difference in speed.

Cookie_Monster

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

Drivers' expectations are different.

only because of the precedence. If they changed the law tomorrow everyone would have to adjust their expectations.

Bunnyhopper

I agree with Idleater that there's no difference in road layout or speed, and that the driver has the same duty of care. However, I think that most drivers on a motorway are not expecting to encounter a cyclist and that that does have an impact on the risk for a cyclist who puts him or herself into that situation.

You should expect the unexpected, but far too many drivers don't. Idleater may be an advanced driver, but it's safer to assume that most drivers just aren't at that level. Differing expectations from dual-carriageway to motorway may be a marginal difference, but at 120 kph (and, let's face it, sometimes a lot higher) those margins can be scarily tight.

I also agree with Cookie_Monster that if things were different they would indeed be different They are, however, not different. Until they are different, I'd recommend cyclists stay off motorways.

Idleater

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

However, I think that most drivers on a motorway are not expecting to encounter a cyclist and that that does have an impact on the risk for a cyclist who puts him or herself into that situation.

Agreed completely.

LennoxR

To return to my earlier question, why the hell would you want to cycle on the motorway though?

Really unpleasant, potentially highly dangerous and of course illegal.

jive

LennoxR wrote: »

To return to my earlier question, why the hell would you want to cycle on the motorway though?

Really unpleasant, potentially highly dangerous and of course illegal.

To get the adrenaline pumping and try to keep up with the pace obviously

Agent Smyth

I only learnt this morning that the section of DC between Cullenmore and the Beehive pub on the N11 (M11) is a motorway.
I found this out because a Garda stopped me just as I was about to exit the road at the Mount Usher junction.
Apparently this section has been a motorway for the last two years.
Was laughing at myself for not realising that this section of road was now a motorway and wondering why the section of DC between the two motorways is not a motorway.

BeepBeep67

Agent Smyth wrote: »

and wondering why the section of DC between the two motorways is not a motorway.

The Motorway bit was reclassified in 2008 and from what I gather the reason the rest has not is to do with access, on a DC you can have private access, but not on a Motorway.
For example there's pedestrian access on both sides of the DC North of Coynes Cross for the bus stops. Private access south of Kilpedder on both sides and Glen of the Downes for obvious reasons.

NeedMoreGears

Got a bit lost down that direction a few years back and found myself on the M11 heading south.

Horrible experience even though there were very few cars around. Slip roads were a nightmare - always nervous that someone would appear that I hadn't seen - and there was plenty of buffeting from the cars - glad there were no HGVs about. Glued myself to the very left of the hard shoulder which was full of stones, glass etc.

Having said that the N11 slip road towards enniskerry wasn't great either but the motorway definitely felt less safe. I wouldn't recommend the motorway to anyone.

awec

Personally, I don't mind the N11 as far as the exit for Shankill (i.e. the bit with the cycle lane).

I don't like cycling on the dual carriageway part with no cycle lane, I just find it a bit off putting. The surface is a bit bumpy and it's a busy road with cars going past at 100km/h.

The exits make it even more uncomfortable.

On top of all that it's incredibly dull.