Is grammar Nazism a form of bullying?

Karl Stein

Is it?

paulmclaughlin

*Grammar

Karl Stein

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

*Grammar

You forgot the full stop. I have some spare full stops you can borrow.

Here you go .............

WoollyRedHat

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

You forgot the full stop. I have some spare full stops you can borrow.

Here you go .............

I'm on my period...

Toby Take a Bow

I think it's more a case of people being dicks.

Karl Stein

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I'm on my period...

Ewe goe gurl.

shedweller

Yes. A very nessess ....necess....

Karl Stein

shedweller wrote: »

Yes. A very nessess ....necess....

One coffee two sugars. Necessary.

Frank Black

The only time it's acceptable is in response to a post that's correcting someone's grammar.

Vito Corleone

Their so annoying.

Wait for it...

marshmallowx

I think so, it's just people trying to show their intellectual superiority ( or their conception of it..) obviously they have nothing exciting in their lives so they go online trying to make others feel stupid. If they actually had a life would they bother?!

Czarcasm

If you're intelligent enough to know what a person meant to say, then why bother? It doesn't show everybody how clever you are, it merely shows everybody what an asshole you are that you would think to miss a person's point completely for the sake of a spelling error.

So what like, really, so what?

Grammar and spelling correction is nothing more than just incredibly petty nonsense and I for one am glad it's not tolerated on Boards.

ted1

Absolutely, plenty of people out there have learning difficulties, dyslexia etc.

Would you stop some one mid conversation and point out that they have a stutter or a lisp?

Genreally grammar nazis have no real point to make.

catallus

So expecting a certain standard of communication between people that is neither ambiguous, misleading, nor confusing is now considered to be bullying behaviour?

ted1

See above .

Frosty McSnowballs

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

One coffee two sugars. Necessary.

Thats a clever one!

shedweller

My take on it is that there is always somebody more educated around. I may think i have a good grasp of grammar but....
That said, it is a slippery slope wrt grammar. Sometimes i think we'll all be grunting at each other in monosyllabic sounds in the not too distant future.
You could call it evolution but there is a risk of devolution happening too. Just look at a group of people at a canteen table or pub table. One takes his phone out and within a minute they all have their phones out. Thats an example of devolution.
Poor grammar is another. Then you have the sixth/sickth nonsense. Vannilr ice cream is another.

Evolution or devolution?

(I'm no grammar angel either but i try my best!)

Karl Stein

catallus wrote: »

So expecting a certain standard of communication between people that is neither ambiguous, misleading, nor confusing is now considered to be bullying behaviour?

That's what we're exploring in this thread I guess.

I subscribe to Stephen Fry's assertion that:

...the claim to be defending language for the sake of clarity almost never, ever holds water. Nor does the idea that following grammatical rules in language demonstrates clarity of thought and intelligence of mind.

Stephen Fry.

(My emphasis)

Killer Wench

I think bullying is being applied to any situation when a person feels like they are being called on their ****. It is being overused to the point that it could become meaningless.

marshmallowx

Corleone ,

grammar nazi

I'm just messin wit ya

If two posters are engaged and one can't address the others points, and then resorts to sniping about their grammar to 'win', that could be considered a form of bullying.

I know a man who will correct peoples grammar to their faces in front of others. He maintains that he likes being put right if he's said something wrong, and that he's doing others a favour if he does it to them. Of course he thinks he's never wrong. He's not doing anyone any favours, he's just being obnoxious. The internet isn't that different.

Vito Corleone

Regarding the OP's question. It may be a dickhead move but it's not bullying, unless it's done continuously to undermine or harass another poster. Bullying has to be continuous. A once off incident is never bullying.

pablomakaveli

I dont think its bullying. Being a grammar nazi is just a way a person can make themselves feel superior when really they are just pathetic.

You know someone can't debate a topic when they resort to pointing out grammatical or spelling mistakes instead of focusing on the point the other person is making.

Karl Stein

Candie wrote: »

I know a man who will correct peoples grammar to their faces in front of others.

He sounds like a right asshole. Reminds me of Constantinople Dufrais.

Czarcasm

catallus wrote: »

So expecting a certain standard of communication between people that is neither ambiguous, misleading, nor confusing is now considered to be bullying behaviour?

I'm guessing you've never read Shakespeare or Joyce then? In fact, ANY of the renowned literates of the english language!

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

I subscribe to Stephen Fry's assertion that:


(My emphasis)

As much as I cannot abide by the faux intellectual windbag that is Stephen Fry, every once in a while he manages to make a good point.

Ruudi_Mentari

We have spelling correctors on most devices now, do these people who need it most actually switch theirs off or what? I reckon most of it is blatant........

Super-Rush

Its just spa's being spa's.

Vito Corleone

Vito Corleone wrote: »

A once off incident is never bullying.

Why not? Serious question.

BNMC

Super-Rush wrote: »

Its just spa's being spa's.

Must...not..correct...poor grammar.

anncoates

Seems to be a boards fashion in recent times to overuse or misuse the term bullying.

Vito Corleone

Candie wrote: »

Why not? Serious question.

By definition bullying is described as repeated behavior. It's one of the reason's bullying is so awful. I feel that saying a once off incident is bullying undermines genuine cases of bullying.

Iwasfrozen

It's not bullying it's just really irritating to see mistakes in grammar all over a post. In the business world I'd call it unprofessional, here I just call it laziness.

*Double checks every word to make sure he didn't miss anything.*

implausible

An internet forum like this one relies on clearly written communication. If a poster's grammar and spelling is so bad that it takes from his/her point, then surely you'd be doing someone a favour by fixing it.

People learn by having common errors pointed out e.g. inserting an apostrophe every time you see a plural. You can't learn if no-one shows you the correct way to do something and if you get all defensive when someone points out an error.

And honestly, does Naziism have to be attached to everything that people feel strongly about?

ted1

implausible wrote: »

An internet forum like this one relies on clearly written communication. If a poster's grammar and spelling is so bad that it takes from his/her point, then surely you'd be doing someone a favour by fixing it.

People learn by having common errors pointed out e.g. inserting an apostrophe every time you see a plural. You can't learn if no-one shows you the correct way to do something and if you get all defensive when someone points out an error.

And honestly, does Naziism have to be attached to everything that people feel strongly about?

Utter nonsense, it distracts from the topic at hand.

Make a valid point or don't.

sdanseo

If you're generally terrible at grammar or have a reasonable excuse like dyslexia, fine.

On the other hand, if like 90% of grammar Nazi victims you are simply not arsed to punctuate and proof read, then you deserve to be torn a new one. I'm first in the queue, cheers.

Karl Stein

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I just call it laziness.

Really? Do you believe you have perfectly clear English?

implausible

ted1 wrote: »

Utter nonsense, it distracts from the topic at hand.

Make a valid point or don't.

How? It's perfectly relevant; correcting someone's grammar or spelling isn't bullying, it's educating them by pointing out an error. If you correct someone's figures or use a fact to disagree with their point of view, is that bullying?

Following the logic on this thread, teaching is bullying.

catallus

There's a difference between poetic licence (using language to convey ambiguity) and the wilful abandonment of using words properly in sentences. Boards has a policy of users not being allowed to use txtspk. The reason being that textspeak has its proper place in the private intimate communication between persons who know each other well enough to understand what's being said in the clipped words. That standard isn't good enough for a public forum where nuance and subtext are of little value. Notwithstanding Stephen Fry, there is definitely a need for clarity in communication between people who don't know each other, and using words properly is just one criterion for that.

There is a habit of some users to abuse an opening poster for not using paragraphs if a post is over three sentences long; is that bullying?

Vito Corleone

Vito Corleone wrote: »

By definition bullying is described as repeated behavior. It's one of the reason's bullying is so awful. I feel that saying a once off incident is bullying undermines genuine cases of bullying.

I don't know. You can certainly feel genuinely bullied in a one off incident of intimidation or assault and menacing, which isn't to trivialise the further trauma of repeated bullying. Both experiences would be genuine cases. Both ends of a scale I suppose, but the same scale.

A raft of different posters laying into anothers bad grammar can look a lot like bullying to me.

Wise Old Elf

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not bullying it's just really irritating to see mistakes in grammar all over a post. In the business world I'd call it unprofessional, here I just call it laziness.

*Double checks every word to make sure he didn't miss anything.*

Fully agree on business point. I'm our office "grammar nazi"; as in I check other people's spelling and general grammar and punctuation. I'm not perfect but if some of the mistakes went out, it would reflect very poorly on the organisation.

Being a grammar nazi on boards or on social media can be a bit dickish, not bullying though.

ted1

implausible wrote: »

How? It's perfectly relevant; correcting someone's grammar or spelling isn't bullying, it's educating them by pointing out an error. If you correct someone's figures or use a fact to disagree with their point of view, is that bullying?

Following the logic on this thread, teaching is bullying.

It's being obnoxious, facts and figures are very different,
There coats and their coats in a sentence when read has the same meaning. 514 and 415 have very different meanings.
3 people injured is different than. 3000.

Who are you to correct people?

ted1

Candie wrote: »

I don't know. You can certainly feel genuinely bullied in a one off incident of intimidation or assault and menacing, which isn't to trivialise the further trauma of repeated bullying. Both experiences would be genuine cases. Both ends of a scale I suppose, but the same scale.

A raft of different posters laying into anothers bad grammar can look a lot like bullying to me.

As I said before you don't know people's situation, so by pointing it out on a forum can be bullying.

yes it is

also the person been a douche

cheesefiend

There's no real excuse for pulling someone up on their grammar. When I read something that has obvious grammatical mistakes, I notice it and sometimes I find it annoying if it's unclear what the person is trying to say.

However, I would never pull someone up on it, to me it's just petty. 99% of the time you know what someone is trying to get across, why would you need to correct them and embarrass them.

I have friends with various learning as well as visual and motor disabilities which makes it harder for them to simply type or write, so when I see someone calling a poster out [usually one they know nothing about] it really gets on my tits.

seven_eleven

This thread has already demonstrated that its just people being arrogant dícks looking for something to complain about.

I'm not the best speller and I often make minor mistakes, I dont mind other people making them too. I mean, unless "dey r talkin lyke dis den im nt gnna complane mch"

Iwasfrozen

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Really? Do you believe you have perfectly clear English?

No one's perfect. No I don't.

wil

Candie wrote: »

Why not? Serious question.

Bullying by definition is repetitive abuse or aggressive behaviour, not one off actions.

You could even call repeated false accusations of bullying towards a person as a type of bullying

Vito Corleone

Candie wrote: »

I don't know. You can certainly feel genuinely bullied in a one off incident of intimidation or assault and menacing, which isn't to trivialise the further trauma of repeated bullying. Both experiences would be genuine cases. Both ends of a scale I suppose, but the same scale.

A raft of different posters laying into anothers bad grammar can look a lot like bullying to me.

I guess it really depends on what your definition of the word is. Personally, I wouldn't consider a once off incident as bullying ever. I would argue that the whole factor of knowing that somebody is out to get you and will attack you again in some way is central to bullying.

Multiple posters doing it to one poster is a bit of a grey area I suppose.

My name is URL

cheesefiend wrote: »

I have friends with various learning as well as visual and motor disabilities which makes it harder for them to simply type or write, so when I see someone calling a poster out [usually one they know nothing about] it really gets on my tits.

Never mind them! It's next to impossible to insure that every word is spelled correctly when browsing from a phone. A lot of the time it's just bloody easier to accept that errors are going to appear in your post.

It's not as if you're scribing in fcuking hieroglyphs.. people can still understand the point you're trying to put across. If they can't; then they're the idiots.

cheesefiend

My name is URL wrote: »

Never mind them! It's next to impossible to insure that every word is spelled correctly when browsing from a phone. A lot of the time it's just bloody easier to accept that errors are going to appear in your post.

It's not as if you're scribing in fcuking hieroglyphs.. people can still understand the point you're trying to put across. If they can't; then they're the idiots.

Exactly, if you're having problems understanding what someone means when they type 'Go get you're coat' instead of 'Go get your coat' then you're the one who needs a bit of help.

Also, if someone is writing in severe text speak what is the point of even correcting them, they obviously don't have great grasp of the English language, so you're just picking on someone not as capable as you. Or they just don't care in which case you're just wasting your time correcting them.

Duck's hoop

shedweller wrote: »

Poor grammar is another. Then you have the sixth/sickth nonsense. Vannilr ice cream is another.

Evolution or devolution?

(I'm no grammar angel either but i try my best!)

Not sure what point yer trying to make here. The correct pronunciation of sixth is sic-th. you can't pronounce the interdental fricative th correctly otherwise. Unless you effectively make it a 2 syllable word.

My mate was having bother with 'twelfth';

"I surely cannot be the only one whose ordinary slow pronunciation of this word is indeed twelfθ. OK, the labiodental and dental fricatives certainly overlap (though surely the labiodental turbulence starts before the dental). But segment overlap is nothing new or exceptional. The l in this word overlaps with the f, too. The w overlaps with the t. The mental representation underlying my articulation is clearly twelfθ, and that formulation faithfully represents the articulatory targets that my actual articulations may or may not achieve (depending, as usual, on speech rate, formality etc.).

Similarly, I have no hesitation in claiming that my basic pronunciation of sixth is sɪksθ. And that of clothes, kləʊðz.

True, there are speakers for whom reduced forms of various kinds have been lexicalized, so that the unreduced form is in some sense irrecoverable. Most (all?) of us have lexicalized the two-syllable reduction of every (i.e. ˈevri rather than ˈevəri). I’m aware that for victory I personally do not feel at all happy with the dictionary form ˈvɪktəri, since I feel I can naturally say only ˈvɪktri. On the other hand I cannot go along with people who claim that police is pliːs — for me, although I might sometimes reduce it this way in rapid speech, it is basically unquestionably pəˈliːs, i.e. comparable to polite and pollution rather than to pleat and playful."