Aer Lingus Adds San Francisco and Toronto Service in S14

urajoke

http://airlineroute.net/2013/07/02/ei-sfo-s14/

July 2, 2013
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Aer Lingus Adds San Francisco and Toronto Service in S14
by JL
2nd Update at 1030GMT 02JUL13

As of 1030GMT 02JUL13, Aer Lingus has closed reservation for planned Dublin – San Francisco and Dublin – Toronto service, due to start in April 2014. Reservation for both routes opened briefly for about 2-3 hours in the morning hours of Tuesday 02JUL13 (Screenshot below, taken at 0830GMT). The Irish carrier is expected to reopen reservation when it formally announce the addition of both routes.
Based on information appeared in the GDS as well as the airline’s website earlier around 0800GMT, planned operation as follow.
Dublin – San Francisco eff 02APR14 Service resumption with 5 weekly Airbus A330-200 aircraft
EI147 DUB1220 – 1520SFO 332 x24
EI146 SFO1720 – 1135+1DUB 332 x24
The airline last operated this route in October 2009, with 4 weekly flights. Schedule from Summer 2009:
EI147 DUB0950 – 1250SFO 332 x246
EI146 SFO1500 – 0915+1DUB 332 x246


Dublin – Toronto eff 21APR14 New Daily service operated by leased Boeing 757, configuration is C12Y165
EI129 DUB1400 – 1620YYZ 757 D
EI128 YYZ1750 – 0520+1DUB 757 D


The addition of Toronto route marks the airline’s return to Canadian market on scheduled basis since October 1979 (2 weekly Shannon – Montreal route with Boeing 707, schedule at the bottom of this post. Cargo service operated until October 1983). Schedule from Summer 1979 as follow.
EI121 SNN1325 – 1445YMX 707 14
EI120 YMX2215 – 0850+1SNN 707 14
Original update filed at 0830GMT 02JUL13

A320

surely the B707 Is a miss print for a B757

urajoke

A320 wrote: »

surely the B707 Is a miss print for a B757

The addition of Toronto route marks the airline’s return to Canadian market on scheduled basis since October 1979 (2 weekly Shannon – Montreal route with Boeing 707, schedule at the bottom of this post. Cargo service operated until October 1983). Schedule from Summer 1979 as follow.
EI121 SNN1325 – 1445YMX 707 14
EI120 YMX2215 – 0850+1SNN 707 14

Shamrock231

urajoke wrote: »

Dublin – San Francisco eff 02APR14 Service resumption with 5 weekly Airbus A330-200 aircraft
EI147 DUB1220 – 1520SFO 332 x24
EI146 SFO1720 – 1135+1DUB 332 x24

Great news for EI, anyone know what the x24 bit refers to at the end of the above info?

b757

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Great news for EI, anyone know what the x24 bit refers to at the end of the above info?

Excluding day 2 and 4.

Shamrock231

b757 wrote: »

Excluding day 2 and 4.

Great, thanks for that, so can we assume that it'll be the same aircraft that'll be used for the MCO run then?

On second thoughts though, it'll take more than one aircraft to operate the route, so can anyone figure out how they'll swing it?

urajoke

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Great, thanks for that, so can we assume that it'll be the same aircraft that'll be used for the MCO run then?

On second thoughts though, it'll take more than one aircraft to operate the route, so can anyone figure out how they'll swing it?

With the addition of 3 757's it will give them greater flexibility to move aircraft around. Moving the morning Malaga run to maybe a 757 and an a320 an hour later with an A330 twice a week, that's assuming that Shannon will have enough passengers to fill their a330s to JFK and BOS during the summer. The evening DUB-JFK could become a 757 run instead.

Is the first a350 still due next year ? If it is then there you go extra capacity.

L1011

urajoke wrote: »

Is the first a350 still due next year ? If it is then there you go extra capacity.

Nope. Unless they get some deal out of Airbus and there's another airline willing to move down the queue; they're not due to get any till 2015.

Shamrock231

urajoke wrote: »

With the addition of 3 757's it will give them greater flexibility to move aircraft around. Moving the morning Malaga run to maybe a 757 and an a320 an hour later with an A330 twice a week, that's assuming that Shannon will have enough passengers to fill their a330s to JFK and BOS during the summer. The evening DUB-JFK could become a 757 run instead.

Is the first a350 still due next year ? If it is then there you go extra capacity.

I think you might have misunderstood, 2 of the 757s will be goig to SNN to operate the JFK/BOS runs, there'll be no A330 left in SNN, all A330s will be based out of Dublin. The remaining 757 will be Dublin based to operate the YYZ route daily.

I can't see the AGP run being switched to a 757 as the 757s will have only 177 seats, only 3 more than EI's standard A320 layout, so that's a very big drop in capacity on the AGP route if they were to do that.

DUB-JFK will stay A330 from what I can tell, my question was more as to how they'd schedule the A330s to do the SFO route instead of the current system.

orionm_73

On second thoughts though, it'll take more than one aircraft to operate the route, so can anyone figure out how they'll swing it?

In the past EI would send the aircraft arriving from SFO to somewhere a lot closer like Boston and vice versa. So while a west coast route does need two aircraft for anything more than 3pw, those aircraft can squeeze in a shorter east coast flight rotation between SFO trps.

Shamrock231

So, here's the current A330/B757 schedule from Dublin with the new ones added in:

EI104 JFK - DUB Arrives 05:10 Daily
EI122 ORD - DUB Arrives 05:15 Daily
EI136 BOS - DUB Arrives 05:15 Daily
EI128 YYZ - DUB Arrives 5:20 Daily
EI584 DUB - AGP - Departs 07:00 Daily
EI138 BOS - DUB Arrives 08:00 Daily
EI120 MCO - DUB Arrives 08:15 Wed, Sun
EI108 JFK - DUB Arrives 08:55 Daily
EI124 ORD - DUB Arrives 09:25 Mon, Tues, Thurs, Sat.
EI105 DUB - JFK - Departs 10:45 Daily
EI123 DUB - ORD - Departs 11:25 Daily
EI137 DUB - BOS - Departs 11:30 Daily
EI146 SFO- DUB Arrives 11:35 Mon, Tues, Thurs, Sat, Sun
EI147 DUB - SFO - Departs 12:20 Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat, Sun
EI121 DUB - MCO - Departs 12:40 Tues and Sat
EI129 DUB - YYZ - Departs 14:00 Daily
EI585 AGP - DUB Arrives 14:10 Daily
EI109 DUB - JFK - Departs 15:30 Daily
EI125 DUB - ORD - Departs 15:45 Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun (This ties in with the MCO run currently)
EI139 DUB - BOS - Departs 16:50 Daily

urajoke

Shamrock231 wrote: »

I think you might have misunderstood, 2 of the 757s will be goig to SNN to operate the JFK/BOS runs, there'll be no A330 left in SNN, all A330s will be based out of Dublin. The remaining 757 will be Dublin based to operate the YYZ route daily.

I can't see the AGP run being switched to a 757 as the 757s will have only 177 seats, only 3 more than EI's standard A320 layout, so that's a very big drop in capacity on the AGP route if they were to do that.

DUB-JFK will stay A330 from what I can tell, my question was more as to how they'd schedule the A330s to do the SFO route instead of the current system.

Sorry my posting was based on Shannon keeping their 330 for the summer if there was enough passengers. I guess there isn't and 757 capacity x 7 day service equals 330s x 3 or x 4 depending on the route which should mean a fuller load more often.

Your posting was pretty much what I thought but I was giving Shannon the benefit of the doubt for the summer season.

Tenger

urajoke wrote: »

Sorry my posting was based on Shannon keeping their 330 for the summer if there was enough passengers. I guess there isn't and 757 capacity x 7 day service equals 330s x 3 or x 4 depending on the route which should mean a fuller load more often.

Your posting was pretty much what I thought but I was giving Shannon the benefit of the doubt for the summer season.

Numbers a bit rough but:
14x B757 = 2500 seats
7x A330 = 1750 seats

even 10 x B757 is 1770.

The issue with SNN at the moment isn't really capacity but frequency for EI. The B757 allows them to offer better frequency which 'should' secure them better loadfactor. 5x week JFK and BOS is better than a mix of 3/4 as it is now in Summer.

Marcusm

A320 wrote: »

surely the B707 Is a miss print for a B757

You'd have been a magician to find a 757 in 1979!

A320

Marcusm wrote: »

You'd have been a magician to find a 757 in 1979!

Jesus ha your right I missed the bit where it said this WAS the schedule!!! :D

CaptainSkidmark

I read somewhere one of the 757's is gonna be a retro scheme!

b757

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

I read somewhere one of the 757's is gonna be a retro scheme!

Read that also, hopefully not.. Would want to see the green 757..

Grey Pencils has a drawing on their Facebook page of a 757 EI retro. Great drawing (like all of his), but just would not like to see it in person.. The a320 is enough! Lol

L1011

b757 wrote: »

Read that also, hopefully not.. Would want to see the green 757

There are going to be three of them, one retro will still leave two green. And anyway, the proposed retro livery is actually green, its not the same as the 320 has.

urajoke

MYOB wrote: »

There are going to be three of them, one retro will still leave two green. And anyway, the proposed retro livery is actually green, its not the same as the 320 has.

Any images of the proposal ?

urajoke

urajoke wrote: »

Any images of the proposal ?

Just seen it over on kiddiestalkairliners.net

A320

I think EI-FCC looks cool in the all white with green markings! The magic of what appears to be Decals!!

owenc

So they are going to start a route to San Francisco and it will leave at 12 and arrive at 3?
Very good. You basically have no reason to be going to London now.

basill

Don't quite understand why people did in the last few years anyway with all of the codeshares available out of Dublin. Perhaps a corporate deal with BA and airmiles therein but otherwise heading East to connect at LHR and then clearing CBP at the other end made no sense to me. Doubtless the spend thrifts thought they were saving themself a few quid for all of the hassle.

jd

Available on web site now

basill

Ah its back. This must be ahead of the canapes!

IRLConor

basill wrote: »

Don't quite understand why people did in the last few years anyway with all of the codeshares available out of Dublin. Perhaps a corporate deal with BA and airmiles therein but otherwise heading East to connect at LHR and then clearing CBP at the other end made no sense to me. Doubtless the spend thrifts thought they were saving themself a few quid for all of the hassle.

It depends. Plenty of people (myself included) don't like to connect on the US east coast and that pretty much left DUB-ORD-SFO or DUB-LHR-SFO. Heathrow's a nicer airport than Chicago by a good stretch and both BA and Virgin are nicer to fly with than United.

The real killer with connecting in the US is that on the way back if you have to change terminals like you do in ORD you have to go through TSA's lunacy twice in one day.

markpb

basill wrote: »

Don't quite understand why people did in the last few years anyway with all of the codeshares available out of Dublin. Perhaps a corporate deal with BA and airmiles therein but otherwise heading East to connect at LHR and then clearing CBP at the other end made no sense to me. Doubtless the spend thrifts thought they were saving themself a few quid for all of the hassle.

1. The standard of trans-Atlantic carrier operating out of London is far, far better than any out of Dublin. To be fair to them, Aer Lingus have caught up a lot in the last few years.

2. The difference in price can be substantial, not just a few quid.

3. Personally, for flights any further than the east coast, I prefer one short and one long flight so I can sleep properly.

urajoke

Because the lay over times and flight times out of the east coast were too long and too late. It was always easier to get early flight out of dub to lon and then get a morning flight to west last rather than get in very late.

murphym7

basill wrote: »

Don't quite understand why people did in the last few years anyway with all of the codeshares available out of Dublin. Perhaps a corporate deal with BA and airmiles therein but otherwise heading East to connect at LHR and then clearing CBP at the other end made no sense to me. Doubtless the spend thrifts thought they were saving themself a few quid for all of the hassle.

For folks like me down south Dublin wasnt that easy, the trip to Dublin by Train or car followed by flight to the east coast and then have an east coast transfer... Much easier for me to go Cork-London-San Fran.

I will probably still go through London though, even with the new serivce unless it was a really good price.

It is great to have it back though, I know it will make a lot of peoples lifes a lot easier.

owenc

Will the flight really take 11 hours though? Isn't that a bit high from Dublin.

owenc

basill wrote: »

Don't quite understand why people did in the last few years anyway with all of the codeshares available out of Dublin. Perhaps a corporate deal with BA and airmiles therein but otherwise heading East to connect at LHR and then clearing CBP at the other end made no sense to me. Doubtless the spend thrifts thought they were saving themself a few quid for all of the hassle.

Well I was saying that because imo it's not really worthwhile driving 3 hours to fly to new york or somewhere and then get another 5 hour flight when you can fly to heathrow and get the direct flight and even when you get to the East coast of the USA you have to wait hours to get the connecting flight so you are really extending the travelling time. I would rather do it in one go than have several flights to get there.

dm09

Would be great if United would set up a B787 Service Dublin to Los Angeles!

Shamrock231

dm09 wrote: »

Would be great if United would set up a B787 Service Dublin to Los Angeles!

It would likely dilute the yields on the SFO route and wouldn't be successful in competition with the SFO route resulting in both routes collapsing like what happened last time around.

dm09

Shamrock231 wrote: »

It would likely dilute the yields on the SFO route and wouldn't be successful in competition with the SFO route resulting in both routes collapsing like what happened last time around.

Was it the Introduction of SFO that Killed the LAX route? How long was DUB-LAX in operation before it ceased? I travel to So Cal more often so personally I'd prefer the LAX service over SFO

Shamrock231

dm09 wrote: »

Was it the Introduction of SFO that Killed the LAX route? How long was DUB-LAX in operation before it ceased? I travel to So Cal more often so personally I'd prefer the LAX service over SFO

LAX was in operation from 1996 IIRC, and that was certainly the impression given at the time that the addition of SFO to the mix killed off both routes, there was too much capacity. SFO performed better than LAX in the years they operated side by side.

David086

Are the 757 cabins going to be fitted out in an AL scheme and PTV's or are they staying the same?

Shamrock231

Well some reconfiguration will be needed as AFAIK Finnair operate them in an all economy configuration. Whether they replace all seats or just the ones up front has yet to be announced. I wonder if they'll also get wifi capability? Seeing as they'll only be in the fleet 3 years it'd be quite the commitment.

owenc

dm09 wrote: »

Was it the Introduction of SFO that Killed the LAX route? How long was DUB-LAX in operation before it ceased? I travel to So Cal more often so personally I'd prefer the LAX service over SFO

Wouldn't it have been better to have a socal one anyway?

Razor44

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Well some reconfiguration will be needed as AFAIK Finnair operate them in an all economy configuration. Whether they replace all seats or just the ones up front has yet to be announced. I wonder if they'll also get wifi capability? Seeing as they'll only be in the fleet 3 years it'd be quite the commitment.

Depends on how long ei keep them, its 3 years to start with, and muller isnt overly convinced of the neo as an option. If I am remembering what I read a few mths back right. You would think they will bring them up to spec to keep customers coming back.

L1011

I presume AVOD kit can be reused on whatever replaces them. Seats - anyone know if seats can be reused in a different manufacturer of narrowbody? Slight cabin width difference could be an issue to start with.

Madworld

Any rumours of when this route might be in place by?

Shamrock231

Both starting next April AFAIK.

urajoke

Madworld wrote: »

Any rumours of when this route might be in place by?

Eh it's in the original post !

Suasdaguna1

A junior route.....for junior skippers. Sounds like a ball breaker for crews. Me thinks the seasoned dogs will ply new Yorks and Boston's.

Tenger

owenc wrote: »

Wouldn't it have been better to have a socal one anyway?

Depends on target market really....

and some SoCal bound pax will still take the DUB-SO-LAX route if it suits them in terms of price/timing/CBP clearance.

duck_77

Some reasons why SFO might be better:

- Business traffic may be higher due to concentration of Tech business
- Cargo from said companies may also help (Cargo and Biz make more money)
- SoCal may be more leisure orientated
- SFO was the stronger of the two routes when both were running
- Flying to LAX does not require overflying your destination, same problem as previous LHR comments. Plus, if the Aer Lingus does not Pre-clear immigration and fly to a domestic terminal in LAX, the trek around to connections is painful.

basill

A junior route.....for junior skippers. Sounds like a ball breaker for crews. Me thinks the seasoned dogs will ply new Yorks and Boston's.

Possibly but at least with the 3rd pilot rest becomes less of an issue - well for the two most senior anyway! They will be fighting fit and ready to head out exploring when they get to SFO.

By the nature of the bidding system the most senior Captains and FOs should get a higher proportion of what they go for. That been said there are always exceptions to the rule. Most people like a mix. Sure the early New York and Boston are short flights and have you back tucked up into bed just after 5am all going well but most would find it tedious doing the same rotations.

It will be the same for the Caribbean. Interesting to see a couple of trips but after that being away for so long won't suit most of the folks who have families - the vast majority of crews.

Dublinflyer

I have been looking at the prices EI have put on the route and the are working out about €150 more than the other carriers, albeit with a connection. If you are making this trip with your other half you could save quite a bit with a connection. Lets face it regardless of if you get a connection of not once you arrive in SFO from here all you want to do is have a bit to eat and go to bed. So if you arrive later due to a connecting flight it will not make much of a difference. Also, the direct flight could be up to 11 hours so a lot of people may like the idea of breaking it up a bit and have the chance to get off the plane for a few hours and feed! If the price was more competitive they may have better loads but when you are on holiday with your other half and can save up to €300 by changing flight then that is what most people will do,IMHO. If you are bringing the kids then it's a no brainer.

All the above is just my own opinion and I am open to correction!

owenc

To me 11 hours seems too much from Dublin.

Dublinflyer

I used to do it once a month for work and did the EI direct a few times and it was always between 10.5 and 11 hours gate to gate. it's just under a 6000 mile flight.

Tenger

owenc wrote: »

To me 11 hours seems too much from Dublin.

I'm sure EI know the flight time to SFO and have factored in some ramp time on in the timetable.