turf cutting ban.

mf240

More rural than farming and forestry but what are peoples opinions on it.

There's a thread running in after hours and a lot of people are in favour of the ban which I found strange.

My own opinion is that its very unfair and almost laughable that big multinational company are drilling our shores for oil and gas, yet at the same time the government (puppets)tells us that me must preserve raised bogs.

Conmaicne Mara

I wouldn't be in favour of the machines, by all means cut by hand.

Still, that said, some of the replies on the AH thread I'd support harvesting by atomic waste.

Raised bogs today, blanket bogs tomorrow.

Only got blanket here, but have used turf in herselfs place came from raised bogs, was great stuff.

20silkcut

The fear is that if they successfully stop it on these SAC bogs they will eventually stop all turf cutting. I have seen some of these SAC bogs and they are as bleak and un remarkable as the current legal bogs so the line is imaginary and arbitrary and it appears the authorities are taking it in bite size chunks once they break one section they will attack the rest if us.
There are a lot of vested interests in ending turf cutting in Ireland. Heating your home for an entire winter on 3-400 quid does not sit well with the energy industry.

periodictable

Possibly the raised bogs need protecting, but let's look at the State ie Bord na Mona which does the most damage.
As for blanket bogs, my understanding with respect to turbary rights is that you only cut what you require for your own home needs for the year, not for your married kids and their families, and other relatives. It's the small industrialization of blanket bogs by some people with a turf bank that is causing a problem.
What the anti-group do not understand is that bogs in Ireland are growing all the time-relentless rain and poor drainage, and even if drains have been opened, blocking them up holds the water and encourages moss growth and the process of bog formation continues.
I'm happy to see people heading to the bog-it's a good days work and time spent with neighbors and if the kids help it's a great education and experience for them. In fact, it's one of the few remaining occasions when neighbors from different parts of the parish/county get to mix and exchange news and stories.

Crann

In my opinion I have no problem with people cutting just the amount of turf they need for their household, but I know many people who cut turf to sell which, I think should not be allowed.

Capercaille

periodictable wrote: »

Possibly the raised bogs need protecting, but let's look at the State ie Bord na Mona which does the most damage.
As for blanket bogs, my understanding with respect to turbary rights is that you only cut what you require for your own home needs for the year, not for your married kids and their families, and other relatives. It's the small industrialization of blanket bogs by some people with a turf bank that is causing a problem.
What the anti-group do not understand is that bogs in Ireland are growing all the time-relentless rain and poor drainage, and even if drains have been opened, blocking them up holds the water and encourages moss growth and the process of bog formation continues.
I'm happy to see people heading to the bog-it's a good days work and time spent with neighbors and if the kids help it's a great education and experience for them. In fact, it's one of the few remaining occasions when neighbors from different parts of the parish/county get to mix and exchange news and stories.

https://twitter.com/campbellsuz/status/351810678547419136/photo/1
Monivea bog doesn't seem to be growing much. The way things are going the bog will be totally destroyed.
The "protected" bogs are a rare endangered habitat with severly threatened species like Red Grouse, Curlew (breeding), Golden Plover (breeding), Hen Harrier, Dunlin (breeding). Destroy the bogs and these species are exterminated also.
Going to the bog is great education for kids alright, showing them how to destroy a rare habitat.

crackcrack30

The gov and planning authorities had no problems allowing Shell excavate and remove an entire bog up in mayo.........correct me if i'm wrong.

Birdnuts

Capercaille wrote: »

https://twitter.com/campbellsuz/status/351810678547419136/photo/1
Monivea bog doesn't seem to be growing much. The way things are going the bog will be totally destroyed.
The "protected" bogs are a rare endangered habitat with severly threatened species like Red Grouse, Curlew (breeding), Golden Plover (breeding), Hen Harrier, Dunlin (breeding). Destroy the bogs and these species are exterminated also.
Going to the bog is great education for kids alright, showing them how to destroy a rare habitat.

Most raised bogs are beyond saving, so turf cutting on these makes little difference either way. Indeed the likes of the Boora project in Offaly has shown how degraded bogs can be turned into something very valuable in terms of our Natural Heritage.
However the few remaining intact bogs should indeed be preserved and going on what I hear from my connections in the Castlerea area of Roscommon most ordinary bog owners affected by the restriction have taken the compo and/or alternative bog. Most of those who haven't appear to be commercial cutters and they are the ones bringing all that heavy machinery on to the bogs as seen on the news in recent nights.

Capercaille

crackcrack30 wrote: »

The gov and planning authorities had no problems allowing Shell excavate and remove an entire bog up in mayo.........correct me if i'm wrong.

Sure if the goverment destroy a bog in Mayo that gives the right for everybody to destroy the last fragments of intact bogs.

Alot of waterways in Ireland are polluted in Ireland due to goverment mismanagement. Does that mean that I can pour slurry in the stream through my land????:rolleyes:

periodictable

Capercaille wrote: »

https://twitter.com/campbellsuz/status/351810678547419136/photo/1
Monivea bog doesn't seem to be growing much. The way things are going the bog will be totally destroyed.
The "protected" bogs are a rare endangered habitat with severly threatened species like Red Grouse, Curlew (breeding), Golden Plover (breeding), Hen Harrier, Dunlin (breeding). Destroy the bogs and these species are exterminated also.
Going to the bog is great education for kids alright, showing them how to destroy a rare habitat.

Monivea bog is a raised bog, so apply what I say.
I have extensive blanket bog, which is not cut, but which I have great difficulty in maintaining as a bog with diverse flora and fauna because of restrictive burning periods. On average, every 5-6 years we get a burn if we are very lucky. Meanwhile, sally, furze and briars begin to take over and the heather becomes waist high. Over the last 30 years red grouse which was plentiful is gone. This year's burn was extensive, thorough and right to the surface. Hopefully there's a check on scrub encroachment, and there has been a tremendous growth of many bog flowers which were getting more scarce with the build up of dead grasses and tall heather.
Your last comment shows a painful ignorance of life in the countryside-it's a workplace for many of us, not something to be preserved for urban dwellers and self-styled environmentalists. The vast majority of land owners take care of their property, and cut to fulfill their own need. As an urban child living in the country, I learned from my neighbors, on their land, about plants and wildlife, how to cut and save turf, traditions and stories and the antics of older locals who had passed on. This is what keeps a rural community and identity alive, and I for one will never entertain those bureaucrats, apparatchiks and busybodies who tell the rest of us how to live.
I disagree thoroughly with extensive machine cutting of turf to sell on and make a few bob on the side. As a forester I see an alternative in thinnings and this is what should be marketed and, if the government had and joined up thinking, a grant scheme to encourage people install wood burning stoves in place of open fires would increase demand for wood, and lessen the pressure for turf.

Capercaille

periodictable wrote: »

Monivea bog is a raised bog, so apply what I say.
I have extensive blanket bog, which is not cut, but which I have great difficulty in maintaining as a bog with diverse flora and fauna because of restrictive burning periods. On average, every 5-6 years we get a burn if we are very lucky. Meanwhile, sally, furze and briars begin to take over and the heather becomes waist high. Over the last 30 years red grouse which was plentiful is gone. This year's burn was extensive, thorough and right to the surface. Hopefully there's a check on scrub encroachment, and there has been a tremendous growth of many bog flowers which were getting more scarce with the build up of dead grasses and tall heather.
Your last comment shows a painful ignorance of life in the countryside-it's a workplace for many of us, not something to be preserved for urban dwellers and self-styled environmentalists. The vast majority of land owners take care of their property, and cut to fulfill their own need. As an urban child living in the country, I learned from my neighbors, on their land, about plants and wildlife, how to cut and save turf, traditions and stories and the antics of older locals who had passed on. This is what keeps a rural community and identity alive, and I for one will never entertain those bureaucrats, apparatchiks and busybodies who tell the rest of us how to live.
I disagree thoroughly with extensive machine cutting of turf to sell on and make a few bob on the side. As a forester I see an alternative in thinnings and this is what should be marketed and, if the government had and joined up thinking, a grant scheme to encourage people install wood burning stoves in place of open fires would increase demand for wood, and lessen the pressure for turf.

I ain't some Townie. I have a farm and do active conservation for wildlife on it.

Birdnuts

periodictable wrote: »

As a forester I see an alternative in thinnings and this is what should be marketed and, if the government had and joined up thinking, a grant scheme to encourage people install wood burning stoves in place of open fires would increase demand for wood, and lessen the pressure for turf.

For a country with the best tree growing climate in Europe, that is indeed a no-brainer. The likes of Coillte, Teagsc and the Dept of Energy etc. need to get the finger out and market such iniatives which would also give a sigficant boost to farm forestors and the general rural economy. Especcially in light of recent CAP reform measures that could see many small farmers in disadvantaged areas losing out in terms of their SFP

thebishop

This fella thinks they should stay cutting:)
http://youtu.be/Elc1zmJ56lc

MayoSalmon

Jokeshop of the highest order.

The puppets want to stop the everyday man cutting his bog but Eirgrid have no problem running their dirty transmission lines through half the county of Mayo.

Enrages me even thinking about it.

The Pheasant2

Sick of people saying it's their "way of life" to cut turf. The fact is that our bogs are endangered ecosystems and we simply can't continue to destroy them.
If I said it's my "way of life" to empty crude oil into the great barrier reef I'd be locked up for a long time...the government needs to step up and fine or confiscate the machinery of anybody caught cutting turf unauthorised.

MayoSalmon

Would ya stop!

Bord na Móna have pillaged Ireland's bogs and the Bog of Allen in particular since 1946.

The man and his donkey going up the bog to heat his house for the winter should be fined alright, sure confiscate his donkey and spade while your at it.

Sharpshooter82

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Would ya stop!

Bord na Móna have pillaged Ireland's bogs and the Bog of Allen in particular since 1946.

The man and his donkey going up the bog to heat his house for the winter should be fined alright, sure confiscate his donkey and spade while your at it.

I agree with ya there mayo. The amount of peat that has been harvested by bord na mona around mullingar, tullamore, kinnegad areas is unbelievable. It would take many years for every turf cutter in the country to come anywhere close to that yearly output

micosoft

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Jokeshop of the highest order.

The puppets want to stop the everyday man cutting his bog but Eirgrid have no problem running their dirty transmission lines through half the county of Mayo.

Enrages me even thinking about it.

What's dirty about a transmission line? (visually unattractive does not count) If they take it down it's gone. If you destroy a bog it's gone forever.

Do you use electricity? How do you think it's transmitted?

Birdnuts

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Would ya stop!

Bord na Móna have pillaged Ireland's bogs and the Bog of Allen in particular since 1946.

The man and his donkey going up the bog to heat his house for the winter should be fined alright, sure confiscate his donkey and spade while your at it.

Don't think a man and his donkey is the problem(not many of them left!!) - most of the small plot owners have taken the compo offered. Its the lads with a fleet of track machines and diggers cutting commercially is the problem.

micosoft

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Would ya stop!

Bord na Móna have pillaged Ireland's bogs and the Bog of Allen in particular since 1946.

The man and his donkey going up the bog to heat his house for the winter should be fined alright, sure confiscate his donkey and spade while your at it.

Except that's not true. All the protests I've seen up to now you can see that heavy machinery has been involved - not handcutting. It's not small timers - it's environmental terrorists who see no problem destroying some unique and irreplaceable habitats with heavy machinery to make a few bucks.

Damo810

Most people in here aren't going to change their mind, and are the sort of people not worth arguing with. Off to get the popcorn..

red bull

The contractors are cutting small plots for ordinary people

MayoSalmon

micosoft wrote: »

What's dirty about a transmission line? (visually unattractive does not count) If they take it down it's gone. If you destroy a bog it's gone forever.

Do you use electricity? How do you think it's transmitted?

Are ye serious...there's massive health hazards involved with transmission lines this has been proven and a quick google search will confirm.

Visually unattractive certainly does count...fortunately its the basis of our natural resource (Tourism).

Put the bloody lines 10 feet under simples.

I actually work for ESB so yes I do use electricity and certainly know how it's transmitted.

Birdnuts

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Are ye serious...there's massive health hazards involved with transmission lines this has been proven and a quick google search will confirm.

Visually unattractive certainly does count...fortunately its the basis of our natural resource (Tourism).

Put the bloody lines 10 feet under simples.

I actually work for ESB so yes I do use electricity and certainly know how it's transmitted.

They should be going underground allright - Is this the pylon project running from North Mayo to Roscommon??

MayoSalmon

Yeah running from North Mayo into Roscommon then up to Carrick.

It will cost more money to put the lines underground but let me tell you Energy companies and all involved stakeholders have more than enough dosh to fund it.

https://www.facebook.com/Undergroundgridwest

Birdnuts

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Yeah running from North Mayo into Roscommon then up to Carrick.

It will cost more money to put the lines underground but let me tell you Energy companies and all involved stakeholders have more than enough dosh to fund it.

https://www.facebook.com/Undergroundgridwest[/QUOTE]

I have some land in North Mayo so I've been following the story. From what I've read in the press the main reason for this transmission line is to do with that giant wind farm that is planned for Bellacorick and other potential private projects in that area. I've a bad feeling that the whole concept is going to be an expensive white elephant that will cause a lot of community strife from one end of the line to the other:(

periodictable

MayoSalmon wrote: »

....a quick google search will confirm.

And I googled these too....they must be true.

http://www.astroawareness.com/crystals/allabout.html

http://elvissightingsociety.org/

Masseymad

the government are only trying to walk on us hard working country men and women and are just trying to turn the country (especially the west coast ) into a big national park for city people to go for a drive around every so often

OpenYourEyes

Masseymad wrote: »

the government are only trying to walk on us hard working country men and women and are just trying to turn the country (especially the west coast ) into a big national park for city people to go for a drive around every so often

Wait til all the stories on the news and in the papers this winter about rural flooding - then do a quick google to see if there's any harvested bogs beside where the flooding is, or upstream on the river that has burst its banks - I think you'll find preserving bogs has plenty of benefits for rural people!

Add to that the fact that its a tiny percentage of bogs - and successive Irish governments have shown that they're only interested in doing the very bare minimum with regards protecting habitats/species/ecosystems here - so it's not going to increase any time soon beyond the current SAC's and NHA's.

And don't forget that a lot of money is on offer (as someone earlier in the thread alluded to - most people cut 3-400 euros worth to do them for the year), and if you're that attached to the activity of going to the bog and cutting etc you can get relocated - and if you fall somewhere in between you can get turf delivered!

So the government are not trying to walk on anyone - they're trying to do something that makes total sense - bogs are worth more intact than destroyed - and they're only causing a relatively minor inconvenience to the majority of turfcutters in doing so. As has been said above, the only people who are losing out are the contractors, and they had the opportunity for compensation in previous years but didn't take it (as far as I understand). Plus, from what I understand there would be scope for them to help out in blocking drains and restoring parts of the habitat if this thing ever gets sorted.

Suckler

Masseymad wrote: »

the government are only trying to walk on us hard working country men and women and are just trying to turn the country (especially the west coast ) into a big national park for city people to go for a drive around every so often

This is up there with the most childish statements I've ever read.

mf240

It there were raised bogs in Germany they would be fully exploited for their fuel and when spent would be turned into agricultural land.

The only thing this country is able to protect are a few wild birds and a few ****ty plants/weeds.


It's native people come a distant second.

Suckler

mf240 wrote: »

It there were raised bogs in Germany they would be fully exploited for their fuel and when spent would be turned into agricultural land.

The only thing this country is able to protect are a few wild birds and a few ****ty plants/weeds.


It's native people come a distant second.

How do they come a distant second exactly?

The subsidies recieved to date under the CAP far exceed the value of the land in question. Off course we "could" decide that we don't want the EU money anymore and do as we please but am glad to say the majority are not as short sited as that.
It's a small price to pay for a paltry amount of land.

"If" its only full of Sh1tty plants/weeds you wont miss it.

This whole thing should have been finalised ten years ago, both parties stuck on the long finger with the extension.

OpenYourEyes

mf240 wrote: »

It there were raised bogs in Germany they would be fully exploited for their fuel and when spent would be turned into agricultural land.

The only thing this country is able to protect are a few wild birds and a few ****ty plants/weeds.

It's native people come a distant second.

If you want to be realistic:

If there were raised bogs in Germany they would have been historically exploited, as we did to our bogs. However, once the relevant science made known the value of raised bogs that are intact, and once the Habitats Directive came into being, the Germans would likely have taken action to protect the bogs that were capable of being restored - but continued to exploit the ones that had gone 'past the point of no return' in an ecological sense. With regards the barren lands that are the bogs exploited for commercial and private use, some of them would likely have been converted to agricultural land, and a significant proportion likely converted to some sort of habitat of value - as has been done at Boora in Offaly.


They would have been a) smart about it, and b) practical about it. At the moment we're being neither smart nor practical!


And you'll be happy to known that Ireland is the third worst country in the EU at protecting its wildlife and habitats - and that includes countries that joined in the last 10-15 years - we've been in the EU a lot longer! And we're supposedly better educated than a lot of those countries too. The only protection this country is capable of is individuals looking out for themselves, in the short term - not looking at their own long-term best interests, nevermind the best interests of their neighbours or future generations of rural or Irish people.

mf240

Suckler wrote: »

"If" its only full of Sh1tty plants/weeds you wont miss it. .

Easy get rid of the weeds and when it's fully cut out and drained it will make summer grazing.

mf240

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

They would have been a) smart about it, and b) practical about it. At the moment we're being neither smart nor practical!.

I agree with this point.

Suckler

mf240 wrote: »

Easy get rid of the weeds and when it's fully cut out and drained it will make summer grazing.

And the cost of this work coupled with the assumed increase in profits would fill the gap of the SFP etc.?

Capercaille

mf240 wrote: »

It there were raised bogs in Germany they would be fully exploited for their fuel and when spent would be turned into agricultural land.

The only thing this country is able to protect are a few wild birds and a few ****ty plants/weeds.


It's native people come a distant second.

Sadly people with your mé féin attitude is the reason why there hardly any intact wildlife habitats left in this country.

mf240

Suckler wrote: »

And the cost of this work coupled with the assumed increase in profits would fill the gap of the SFP etc.?

They are not threatening to take away sfp as a result of turf cutting.

They are implementing fines. My point about Germany was that they would of had the political clout to have been able to continue cutting if it had been in their interest.

For the record I don't intend doing anything against the law as I believe you can't just pick and choose which law you want to obey, however I am in favour of this law being changed if possible.

mf240

Capercaille wrote: »

Sadly people with your mé féin attitude is the reason why there hardly any intact wildlife habitats left in this country.

What do they contribute to the economy as a preserved state.

Have never met a tourist who came to Ireland to look at a bog, but have met many Americans who enjoyed the turf fire in the local pub.

When the turfcutters make profit they pay tax on it.

And when the local people save money on their winter fuel by buying it in rows and saving it themselves instead of buying oil, they have more money left to spend in the local economy.

Suckler

mf240 wrote: »

They are not threatening to take away sfp as a result of turf cutting.

I am well aware of that but the SFP money comes from the EU. It's immature to assume we can take the money and participate in a scheme that ensures the poorest producers in the world remain poor and then moan about conservation of an ecosystem.

So we could decide we want to do as we please and go it alone or continue our succesful participation in the CAP and have the maturity to realise it's not a one way street.

mf240 wrote: »

They are implementing fines. My point about Germany was that they would of had the political clout to have been able to continue cutting if it had been in their interest.

Germany is not the EU, you seem confused by this and keep using Germany as an example. Any evidence to back up your claim about Germany?

mf240 wrote: »

For the record I don't intend doing anything against the law as I believe you can't just pick and choose which law you want to obey, however I am in favour of this law being changed if possible.

Irrespective of breaking any laws your're still missing the point.

mf240

Suckler wrote: »

Germany is not the EU, you seem confused by this and keep using Germany as an example. Any evidence to back up your claim about Germany

I know Germany isn't the EU but they are one of the more influential members. Obviously I have no evidence as my point was purely hypothetical.

Suckler

mf240 wrote: »

What do they contribute to the economy as a preserved state.

Thankfully the existence of everyone and everything are not evaluated on their input in to the economy. Such comparison is farcical.

mf240 wrote: »

Have never met a tourist who came to Ireland to look at a bog, but have met many Americans who enjoyed the turf fire in the local pub.

Turf cutting is not being banned. Just certain areas being preserved.

mf240 wrote: »

When the turfcutters make profit they pay tax on it.

Sure, everyone selling turf on done deal declares the tax on the few quid they make on the side.

mf240 wrote: »

And when the local people save money on their winter fuel by buying it in rows and saving it them selves. Instead of buying oil they have more money left to spend in the local economy.

If it's just spending in the local economy we are trying to improve why not stop cross border shopping, importing cars from abroad, online shopping etc. That would vastly increase local economies?
Cutting of our noses to spite our face is not the answer.

mf240

Suckler wrote: »

If it's just spending in the local economy we are trying to improve why not stop cross border shopping, importing cars from abroad, online shopping etc. That would vastly increase local economies?
Cutting of our noses to spite our face is not the answer.

Yes but we don't make cars and Im not looking to ban anyone from going to newry shopping. But if we have a source of fossil fuel on our doorstep, why import another form of fossil fuel from the far east to heat our homes.

OpenYourEyes

mf240 wrote: »

What do they contribute to the economy as a preserved state.

Have never met a tourist who came to Ireland to look at a bog, but have met many Americans who enjoyed the turf fire in the local pub.

When the turfcutters make profit they pay tax on it.

And when the local people save money on their winter fuel by buying it in rows and saving it themselves instead of buying oil, they have more money left to spend in the local economy.

Bogs filter huge amounts of water - reduced cost of cleaning water for use by humans, plus les overall pollution in waterbodies. Also reduces local flooding, which can have a devestating impact on rural communities.

Bogs also filter huge amounts of carbon - cleaner air etc.

Intact bogs can be a good tourist draw and education tool - complete with walkways, lectures/guided tours, plenty of wildlife etc - the reason you don't see Americans coming over to look at our bogs is because they're mostly harvested and there's nothing to see there!! A bit of investment and you have small tourist draws scattered throughout the country that'll increase the numbers of tourists in your rural pubs, enjoying the turf fire thats made from turf taken from some other bog that's so badly destroyed that there was no point in conserving it.


Biodiversity is worth over 3.4 billion to the economy - just because you don't see a man handing a tenner in at the local shop and pub doesn't mean they don't add anything to the local/rural/Irish economy.

There isn't legislation in place because some treehuggers wanted it - its in place because it makes scientific and economical sense to protect these habitats! There's plenty of studies linking wild areas to human health, and habitat destruction and exploitation to economic and political instability too.

And as I said before - money/turf/alternative bogs for turfcutters means its an inconveniance, but not a human rights issue like some would have you believe. Plenty of turfcutters realise this, but unfortunately some refuse to.

OpenYourEyes

mf240 wrote: »

Yes but we don't make cars and Im not looking to ban anyone from going to newry shopping. But if we have a source of fossil fuel on our doorstep, why import another form of fossil fuel from the far east to heat our homes.

Turf is a very inefficient fuel, plus the bogs benefit us much more if they're intact. It means we're exporting the problem a bit, but it doesn't make the financial sense you think it does. I would say it makes financial sense to the individual, but not the wider economy, but given the monetary compensation on offer to stop cutting on SAC bogs thats not true either.

Masseymad

Suckler wrote: »

This is up there with the most childish statements I've ever read.

hahahaha good one hahahaha

micosoft

mf240 wrote: »

It there were raised bogs in Germany they would be fully exploited for their fuel and when spent would be turned into agricultural land.

The only thing this country is able to protect are a few wild birds and a few ****ty plants/weeds.


It's native people come a distant second.

What the hell are you talking about. "Native People"???

For a start this is not townie vs culchie. There are a lot of us in the country that value the environment we inherited and believe we should leave it in a fit state for our children and their children. It was the same lads as yourselves that fly tipped, ****ed chemicals all around the place, dug out every ditch, let the septic tank overflow into local streams until all of these became culturally unacceptable. The same needs to happen around the 1% of bogs we as a country signed up to protect BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

This nonsense about the "Germans made us do it" seems to be part of a giant conspiracy theory in this country.

Honestly, I've always though environmental terrorism should be on the books in this country because that's what it is.

20silkcut

micosoft wrote: »

It was the same lads as yourselves that fly tipped, ****ed chemicals all around the place, dug out every ditch, let the septic tank overflow into local streams until all of these became culturally unacceptable. is.

What are you trying to say here?

Looks like utter rubbish from a tiny mind.

reprazant

mf240 wrote: »

Have never met a tourist who came to Ireland to look at a bog, but have met many Americans who enjoyed the turf fire in the local pub.

This is true, I myself have never met a tourist, especially not an American tourist, who has come to Ireland to look at its beautiful and unique landscapes and native wildlife.

Masseymad

reprazant wrote: »

This is true, I myself have never met a tourist, especially not an American tourist, who has come to Ireland to look at its beautiful and unique landscapes and native wildlife.

you clearly havent met many tourists so

reprazant

I think you might have missed the sarcasm dripping from my post tbf.