Gooch warning

harpsman

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-will-vote-with-feet-if-skills-get-the-boot-gooch-29376275.html

See Gooch givin out about "the modern game", sayin fans will stay away.
The evidence doesnt appear to back up his statement
On a point of detail Donegal have played in front of 2 sell out crowds,on miserable days to boot.
What kinda crowds have Kerry been getting for their games?

Sour grapes??

Personally I'd agree with this: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-time-to-put-a-sock-in-it-pat-29365782.html

InchicoreDude

Benny Coulter was also saying this week that he doesnt like the modern game.

iDave

All the negativity is getting tiresome

Radio5

harpsman wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-will-vote-with-feet-if-skills-get-the-boot-gooch-29376275.html

See Gooch givin out about "the modern game", sayin fans will stay away.
The evidence doesnt appear to back up his statement
On a point of detail Donegal have played in front of 2 sell out crowds,on miserable days to boot.
What kinda crowds have Kerry been getting for their games?

Sour grapes??

Personally I'd agree with this: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-time-to-put-a-sock-in-it-pat-29365782.html

The man has played Gaelic Football at the highest level for the past 10 years. And won a few things along the way. I'd say he's entitled to his opinion.

Jeju

If your team is successful playing non attractive football you will get the crowds whereas if you don't win anything playing whatever type of football then your numbers will fall.
Let them at it if its within the rules and they are winning then its up to some either team to beat them.

doz

The reality is that teams who have a chance of success will always retain a following regardless of how they play so to point to big crowds attending Dublin or Donegal games is pointless. If you look at crowds attending games involving lesser counties they are falling year on year, as is the neutral support, and that is the real indication of the direction the game is headed. Not many neutrals want to watch the negative garbage that is being served up by most teams at the moment, a game which is conspicuous by its lack of basic footballing skills. Bar a couple of the top teams the general level of kicking is atrocious and until something is done about the fisted pass that will likely continue.

The way the Hurling Championship is going this year and the level of excitement it is generating should be an eye opener for the purveyors of the big ball and I hope this will be reflected in attendances and TV figures at the end of the season. There is only one game the neutral wants to watch at the moment and it doesn't begin with f.

Poor_old_gill

harpsman wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-will-vote-with-feet-if-skills-get-the-boot-gooch-29376275.html

See Gooch givin out about "the modern game", sayin fans will stay away.
The evidence doesnt appear to back up his statement
On a point of detail Donegal have played in front of 2 sell out crowds,on miserable days to boot.
What kinda crowds have Kerry been getting for their games?

Sour grapes??

Personally I'd agree with this: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-time-to-put-a-sock-in-it-pat-29365782.html [/QUOTE]

A couple of things here:

1) I agree with the sentiment of Sweeney's article
2) If a second rate journalist such as Sweeney knows the gig is up for you then it is well and truly up
3) As a Kerryman who thinks Pat is a god- it is kind of embarrassing to see him on the Sunday game every week beating the same old drum- as I often say about Kerry football, you either adapt or get left behind and he has very much been left behind.

Could anyone inform me of Sweeney's reaction to Eamon O Hara's tirade against Kevin Walsh?

theoneeyedman

The fact that items like the connacht council think it's ok to charge 20 and 25 euro admittance to their recent games has a bigger influence on neutral numbers.

It's a point though....with all the dictats on health and safety etc in recent years the biggest failing of the gaa had IMO failing to keep pace with changes in coaching and tactical systems in the game. There have been no significant rule changes in years. Next year with the black card etc is an attempt to curb cynicism so we'll have to wait and see.

premierstone

From a completely neutral and predominantly hurling background I would have to agree with both Gooch and Sweeney tbh, Gooch if anyone reads the full article is not critical iof the teams for doing what they are doing and infact praises them for how they have gone about it, he also admits that Kerry need to adapt if they are to keep pace. But he says the game is indanger of excluding skillfull players at the expense of well built athletes and off course he is 100% correct - but what is the solution? The modern game of Gaelic Football could in no way be described by anyone as entertaining, especially from a neutrals perspective.

Sweeney is also correct of course and it is quite obvious that Spillane no longer likes or enjoys the game so why he is still being paid to analyse the thing is quite bizzare.

shockframe

premierstone wrote: »

The modern game of Gaelic Football could in no way be described by anyone as entertaining, especially from a neutrals perspective.

That is not fully accurate.The last decade has IMO actually been the games glory years.There is about 30 to 40 really good matches in this timeframe. The likes of pat spillane likes to go back to the brilliance of his day but his day was only brilliant for kerry. Not so good for everyone else.

Kerry got a bye into the munster final sometimes.Connacht was badly hit with emigration and the ulster counties had constant danger with the troubles which made it hard to play football back then.spillane would do well to remember all of this when comparing things to now.

Not only that but his slating of fermanagh/cavan was all too predictable.cavan has been in the doldrums for a long time and making improvements, fermanagh has a population of around 60,000 which includes a 50% protestant community so in effect that makes the potential population of around 30,000 one of the 3 smallest in the game.No team should be above criticism but there is factors at play too.

If the game has changed it is down to tactical awareness and the application of sports science.

Yes the championship hasnt been great so far but not every team can be brilliant all at once.same as in any sport.you will always get sports with bad games.gaelic football is no exception.

I could also point to 3 outstanding football games back in March over 5 days.Cork v Kerry in under 21, Dublin v Tyrone in the league, St Brigids v Ballymun on st patricks day.Their is plenty of good (and some bad too) matches all over the grades (minor,senior,schools,under 21,sigerson).To me Gaelic Football is a superb game.

as for the gooch interesting that he should say this the week before the munster final.protecting skillful players my a'''.Bernard Brogan,Peter Canavan,Stephen O'Neill,Johhny Doyle, Michael Murphy are all skillful and strong and have done just fine for themselves.That they have to work hard for scores is the way of the game Gooch.

premierstone

shockframe wrote: »

That is not fully accurate.The last decade has IMO actually been the games glory years.There is about 30 to 40 really good matches in this timeframe. The likes of pat spillane likes to go back to the brilliance of his day but his day was only brilliant for kerry. Not so good for everyone else.

Kerry got a bye into the munster final sometimes.Connacht was badly hit with emigration and the ulster counties had constant danger with the troubles which made it hard to play football back then.spillane would do well to remember all of this when comparing things to now.

Not only that but his slating of fermanagh/cavan was all too predictable.cavan has been in the doldrums for a long time and making improvements, fermanagh has a population of around 60,000 which includes a 50% protestant community so in effect that makes the potential population of around 30,000 one of the 3 smallest in the game.No team should be above criticism but there is factors at play too.

If the game has changed it is down to tactical awareness and the application of sports science.

Yes the championship hasnt been great so far but not every team can be brilliant all at once.same as in any sport.you will always get sports with bad games.gaelic football is no exception.

I could also point to 3 outstanding football games back in March over 5 days.Cork v Kerry in under 21, Dublin v Tyrone in the league, St Brigids v Ballymun on st patricks day.

as for the gooch interesting that he should say this the week before the munster final.protecting skillful players my a'''.Bernard Brogan,Peter Canavan,Stephen O'Neill,Johhny Doyle, Michael Murphy are all skillful and strong and have done just fine for themselves.That they have to work hard for scores is the way of the game Gooch.

I respectfully disagree and I think you are confusing competitiveness with quaility and entertainment, the last great game of football I seen was Galway and Kerry in near monsoon conditions, some people may prefer the current brawn over brain type game but its not for me, Im with Gooch on this one tbh. Minor,U21 and club football are also presently much more enjoyable to watch than intercounty Senior fare as the players are allowed express themselves and there isn't the same negativity and over emphasis on creating Gym robots.

shockframe

premierstone wrote: »

I respectfully disagree and I think you are confusing competitiveness with quaility and entertainment, the last great game of football I seen was Galway and Kerry in near monsoon conditions, some people may prefer the current brawn over brain type game but its not for me, Im with Gooch on this one tbh. Minor,U21 and club football are also presently much more enjoyable to watch than intercounty Senior fare as the players are allowed express themselves and there isn't the same negativity and over emphasis on creating Gym robots.

You must have missed a lot of the 2009,2010 and a bit of the 2012 season so.You werent watching Down and Derry 4 weeks ago either so i take it.

There is brawn and brains not just brawn over brains.Thats not just in gaelic.Did Porto win the champions league because just on skill alone.No they did it through hard work,tactical awareness and taking your chances when they came their way.The same goes for Greece in Euro 2004, Chelsea in the EPL 2005-06,Liverpool in CL 2005,Inter Milan in 2010.It didnt stop me enjoying or put me off soccer in any way.

In the last decade we had great scores like mulligans goal in 2005, stephen o neill kicking some great points off both feet.mattie forde doing likewise,colin corkery.kieran mcdonalds wonder point in the 06 semi final.some great colm cooper goals.Michael Murphys finish in the 2012 final.2 savage points by brogan in the 2011 final.not to mention the likes of padraic joyce and michael meehan.

This is before we see new players come to the fore.The minor championship is very competitive with lots of good work going on in several counties.

If you disagree with me thats fine.your entitled to your opinion but if a previous era of football has had as many good players as now I would like to see it.although I would stick up for teams like down in the early 1990s,larry tompkins, Sean og De Paor etc.

Their is also a back door in place at senior level now so teams will not go all out to win like they used to.Its different in the All Ireland stages.

Hurling now has a defensive mindset also.Kilkenny are very good at zonal marking as well as attacking.Doesnt make their games less enjoyable.up to others to beat it.Hurling has had a good season so far and with more tactics as well as skill it should get better again over the next few years

Syferus

The 'hurling is better than football, no football is better than hurling' crap doesn't have to invade every single thread, does it?

More tiresome than a 14-man defence, or Kilkenny winning another AI.

shockframe

Syferus wrote: »

The 'hurling is better than football, no football is better than hurling' crap doesn't have to invade every single thread, does it?

More tiresome than a 14-man defence.

Im not saying football is better than hurling at all.Im just trying to point out that Football is not as bad as some try and make it out to be.

harpsman

There are plenty of small skilful players around at the moment-last week Downs best attacking players were Poland,Laverty and OHare-probably the 3 lightest men on the field

Volvic12

The way Football is going was summed up for me last year when a Cork selector stated that they tend to only look at players 6ft or over. Bit of a joke to be honest. Zero motivation for any small youngster in Cork to play football
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=166487
"Basically we think a big, good fella is better than a small, good fella. That is the tendency in Cork - to go for quite big players."

Skilfull players are a dying breed. Likes of Declan Browne (Tipp),Jason Sherlock would struggle to get picked in modern game because of there height which is wrong in my opinion.

Football has now turned in to a game for Athletes where skill is not a prerequisite but can help.

68Murph68

If you took a full-time professional rugby league player who had never touched an O'Neills number 5 or even seen a game of Gaelic football and gave him a month to learn the rules and to have some time practising how to hand-pass and pickup some notion of how to tackle, how many inter-county football teams would he make at the end of that month?

Basically the game at present does close to nothing to protect the skillful player.

I'd be very interested to see what a game where you had rules close to basketball in terms of tackling would look as a spectacle.

premierstone

Syferus wrote: »

The 'hurling is better than football, no football is better than hurling' crap doesn't have to invade every single thread, does it?

More tiresome than a 14-man defence, or Kilkenny winning another AI.

Nobody mentioned anything of the sort untill you, so I guess if you were going for ironic post of the day, you sir are a winner!

lukin

This is just more Kerry cuteness.Cooper is trying a bit of psychology on the ref, trying to get inside his head before the game so he can get a few soft frees.
In any case Colm is well able to look after himself as we saw last year:
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/532012/

DoctaDee

68Murph68 wrote: »

If you took a full-time professional rugby league player who had never touched an O'Neills number 5 or even seen a game of Gaelic football and gave him a month to learn the rules and to have some time practising how to hand-pass and pickup some notion of how to tackle, how many inter-county football teams would he make at the end of that month?

Basically the game at present does close to nothing to protect the skillful player.

I'd be very interested to see what a game where you had rules close to basketball in terms of tackling would look as a spectacle.

This is way over-simplyfying the matter personally speaking - there's another 50 odd players who train every bit as hard, gym monkey it every bit as often as those guys on the county panel of 26 but their football skills wouldn't be deemed proficient enought for inclusion. The nature of the game is to have better athletes these days but that's not to the exclusion of football skills.

harpsman

Volvic12 wrote: »

The way Football is going was summed up for me last year when a Cork selector stated that they tend to only look at players 6ft or over. Bit of a joke to be honest. Zero motivation for any small youngster in Cork to play football
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=166487
"Basically we think a big, good fella is better than a small, good fella. That is the tendency in Cork - to go for quite big players."

Skilfull players are a dying breed. Likes of Declan Browne (Tipp),Jason Sherlock would struggle to get picked in modern game because of there height which is wrong in my opinion.

Football has now turned in to a game for Athletes where skill is not a prerequisite but can help.

Have you ever actually watched a game?

premierstone

lukin wrote: »

This is just more Kerry cuteness.Cooper is trying a bit of psychology on the ref, trying to get inside his head before the game so he can get a few soft frees.
In any case Colm is well able to look after himself as we saw last year:
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/532012/

Paranoia is an awfull affliction :rolleyes:

That picture shows absolutely nothing tbh and if thats the some total of your evidence after over 50 championship games, where he is targeted in every single one of them, its a pretty weak feckin case.

lukin

premierstone wrote: »

Paranoia is an awfull affliction :rolleyes:

That picture shows absolutely nothing tbh and if thats the some total of your evidence after over 50 championship games, where he is targeted in every single one of them, its a pretty weak feckin case.

Nah, he's only holding yer man down on the ground by his knee and hand and the linesman looking straight at him.:rolleyes: I was at the game in question and O'Sullivan required lengthy treatment after it.

harpsman

68Murph68 wrote: »

If you took a full-time professional rugby league player who had never touched an O'Neills number 5 or even seen a game of Gaelic football and gave him a month to learn the rules and to have some time practising how to hand-pass and pickup some notion of how to tackle, how many inter-county football teams would he make at the end of that month?

Basically the game at present does close to nothing to protect the skillful player.

I'd be very interested to see what a game where you had rules close to basketball in terms of tackling would look as a spectacle.

When was it ever different?
Look at a match from 30 years ago sometime-sure there was plenty of kicking of the ball alright-usually straight to an opposition player!

Ash.J.Williams

harpsman wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-will-vote-with-feet-if-skills-get-the-boot-gooch-29376275.html

See Gooch givin out about "the modern game", sayin fans will stay away.
The evidence doesnt appear to back up his statement
On a point of detail Donegal have played in front of 2 sell out crowds,on miserable days to boot.
What kinda crowds have Kerry been getting for their games?

Sour grapes??

Personally I'd agree with this: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-time-to-put-a-sock-in-it-pat-29365782.html

of course donegal are drawing crowds...they were f**ing football backwater who just won an allireland, wicklow would draw the same crowds if they did the same.

premierstone

lukin wrote: »

Nah, he's only holding yer man down on the ground by his knee and hand and the linesman looking straight at him.:rolleyes: I was at the game in question and O'Sullivan required lengthy treatment after it.

A still photo is absolutely meaningless without the before and after shots.

lukin

Don't want to turn this into point-scoring but I think Colm should look at some of his own team-mates. Kerry are not exactly a team of hobbits are they?
Donaghy, Galvin, Declan O Sullivan are all big physical men who are well able to stand up to physical challenges.
A case of the pot calling the kettle black.

premierstone

lukin wrote: »

Don't want to turn this into point-scoring but I think Colm should look at some of his own team-mates. Kerry are not exactly a team of hobbits are they?
Donaghy, Galvin, Declan O Sullivan are all big physical men who are well able to stand up to physical challenges.
A case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Have you actually read the quotes from Gooch or are you just having pot shots he does nothing of the sort and praises other teams for the way they have evolved to the current football, he is just raising a concern that the current game is in danger of isolating the more skillfull light players and making then redundant.

He is 100% right, but as he says himself there is no easy fix to it and teams like Kerry must adapt and move with the times, and Im sure they will. My view is that this shift in approach and tactics is far less enjoyable to watch. Galway are a good example of a team that never evolved and look where it has gotten them.

keane2097

lukin wrote: »

Don't want to turn this into point-scoring but I think Colm should look at some of his own team-mates. Kerry are not exactly a team of hobbits are they?
Donaghy, Galvin, Declan O Sullivan are all big physical men who are well able to stand up to physical challenges.
A case of the pot calling the kettle black.

What are you on about?

intellectual dosser

I think a lot of the Donegal players would fall into the 5ft 10inches category. There are some slight looking players, mind you I'm aware they are hardy as hell. In my opinion the smaller players are more effective at the 'swarming' tactic employed by many teams nowadays, there will always be room for players of all builds IMO.

wadacrack

Gaelic football nearly now reminds me of Rugby.The big hits, work rate and intesity are more important than skill. "My worry is, an 18 or 19 year-old now, who is 5ft 10ins, carrying no weight – he might be the most skilful guy in the county and the best player in the county championship, but will he be picked by the county team? I'd have my doubts" Very true. Gaelic football is terrible to watch at present