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The jumpers are coming 2013/14
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26-06-2013 9:49pm#1Summer not quite over and the real racing not yet began but saw this and said I'd kick the thread off early
Tipperary target for Dessie Hughes-trained Our Conor
Our Conor will begin his new campaign in the Grade Two Grimes Hurdle at Tipperary on 6 October.
The Dessie Hughes-trained four-year-old was one of the most impressive winners of the Triumph Hurdle for some considerable time but was ruled out of a seasonal swansong at the Punchestown Festival because of soft ground.
"Super Sunday" is usually a decent day's racing, might make the trek down if Our Conor does indeed run0
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Hulk Hands wrote: »Sprinter Sacre was a huge horse who looked made for fences, was guaranteed to go chasing and his third in a hot supreme novice when travelling all over the opposition made him look a more exciting prospect than Grandoeut ever has. Grandoeut is much older, is still unsure to go chasing and has already shown a tendency to not complete his races. There are dounts about his ability and he's also injury prone and has missed the festival before. 12/1 is a terrible price, especially considering you're guaranteed to have at least that available in October/November before he runs.
What price could you realistically expect for Grandouet then? Much older than Sprinter Sacre? Grandouet is a lighly raced 6 year old.
Sprinter Sacre was 5 when he went chasing so I don't know he you could say Grandouet is much older. Probably me being biased towards him but I think he would make a great 2 mile chaser. People saying he doesn't finish off his races? Yeah over 2 mile 4 he didn't because he didn't get the trip and a couple of times as a 4 year old over 2miles but he's a stronger horse now and provided he stays at 2 miles I don't think it will be a problem. I don't think you can use the International in heavy ground to say he didn't get home. I know he's fallin a couple of times but he's actually not a bad jumper and think he would respect a fence a whole lot more. Like you say he might never go over fences but I think it's worth a chance and it's probably just because I really like the horse that I've backed him. 0 -
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What price could you realistically expect for Grandouet then? Much older than Sprinter Sacre? Grandouet is a lighly raced 6 year old. Sprinter Sacre was 5 when he went chasing so I don't know he you could say Grandouet is much older. Probably me being biased towards him but I think he would make a great 2 mile chaser. People saying he doesn't finish off his races? Yeah over 2 mile 4 he didn't because he didn't get the trip and a couple of times as a 4 year old over 2miles but he's a stronger horse now and provided he stays at 2 miles I don't think it will be a problem. I don't think you can use the International in heavy ground to say he didn't get home. I know he's fallin a couple of times but he's actually not a bad jumper and think he would respect a fence a whole lot more. Like you say he might never go over fences but I think it's worth a chance and it's probably just because I really like the horse that I've backed him.
Wasn't talking about his staying ability, more that he doesn't complete every so often. My definition of a good/bad jumper is probably different than yours. A hurdler who jumps most hurdles well and takes liabilities at the odd one is a bad jumper in my book. Falling more than once over hurdles can't be excused.
I'd have him at least 1/2 alone to make Cheltenham from this far out, and evens to be a chaser come 2014. Then he'd need decent ground. Given all that he'd still have to have the ability to actually win an Arkle, which I probably think he doesn't. I wouldn't be interested in anything under 33/1 atm, so probably 20's to 25's at this stage if I was stating his true price. If I was a bookie it'd be a different matter, because (no offense) all you're going to attract April-September in Cheltenham antepost markets are Punters who aren't price sensitive, and would back him or anyone else regardless if they were 16/1 or 12/1. 95% of the horses in the antepost markets will be the same price or bigger in the market in mid October, which will be the first time you might see any semblance of 'smart money'. There is zero value in the antepost market at the moment on any horse0 -
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Hulk Hands wrote: »Wasn't talking about his staying ability, more that he doesn't complete every so often. My definition of a good/bad jumper is probably different than yours. A hurdler who jumps most hurdles well and takes liabilities at the odd one is a bad jumper in my book. Falling more than once over hurdles can't be excused.
I'd have him at least 1/2 alone to make Cheltenham from this far out, and evens to be a chaser come 2014. Then he'd need decent ground. Given all that he'd still have to have the ability to actually win an Arkle, which I probably think he doesn't. I wouldn't be interested in anything under 33/1 atm, so probably 20's to 25's at this stage if I was stating his true price. If I was a bookie it'd be a different matter, because (no offense) all you're going to attract April-September in Cheltenham antepost markets are Punters who aren't price sensitive, and would back him or anyone else regardless if they were 16/1 or 12/1. 95% of the horses in the antepost markets will be the same price or bigger in the market in mid October, which will be the first time you might see any semblance of 'smart money'. There is zero value in the antepost market at the moment on any horse
Well I don't think he's a bad jumper but never said he's a good jumper he's just stepped at a couple of hurdles in his career.(which I guess you can call him a bad jumper for
But I chose not to 
) I just think he would respect his fences a bit more thats all.
You don't think a 166 rated hurdler if taking to fences has the ability to win an Arkle? He has all the ability in the world but I understand that he is being overrated by me included but he's clearly a talented horse.
Reality is though you'd never see those type of prices for him, he's as low as 8/1 with some bookies. I agree there is no value in the ante post market and I rarely get involved but is it really going to get bigger than 12/1? If its announced Grandouet is going over fences and then he does win a few novices chases on the bridle the price will collapse. If he's staying over hurdles I haven't lost that much. Just on this one it's worth the risk for me, I understand why people don't think it's value but I can't see him getting bigger.0 -
Sorry what?Colonel Sanders wrote: »On what he's actually achieved on the track Grandouet is one of the most over rated horses in the game IMO (and I've said that repeatedly on here).
Has Colonel ever mentioned Grandouet being overrated.:pac: 0 -
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Hulk Hands wrote: »In my view he's a 5/2 shot to even make the race with a live shot at this stage, being very generous, adding up odds of making Chelt (1/2), becoming and remaining a chaser (evs) and no v.soft ground (1/6), all imo of course. 12/1 taking the 5/2 out would equate to a race price of 11/4. I'd be shocked if Grandouet started an Arkle shorter than 11/4, or actually went into an Arkle worthy of an 11/4 price, especially in what should be a decent renewal. Roundabout way of saying I think 12/1 is a very poor price
It's always good or good to soft at Cheltenham... that was pretty obvious this year! As a big grandouet fan who carried a truckload of money numerous times, I wouldn't touch him over fences at 20-1 until I see him beat a class 2 horse and perform 2 flawless races over fences. Steps to freedom and grandouet I'm hoping will stay in the market to keep champagne fever and others prices higher. 0 -
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Colonel Sanders wrote: »Just got a text saying Pont Alexandre misses the season but can't find anything online
Can anyone confirm or deny
It's true.
Was hidden away in a corner in the Racing Post yesterday. Terrible news. 0 -
premierstone wrote: »Good stuff, people doubting the Fly and it only June, this is going to be a long 9 months
our conor will destroy hurricane fly if he meets him in cheltenham next march.the fly has been a brilliant servant but his best is behind him,istabraq comes to mind....a brilliant horse but went to the well once too often.our conor is 5-1 compared to hf at 7-2.I would love evens on our conor in a match bet(nr no bet!!):eek:0 -
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It's getting closer.
http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?hlid=537851&lid=&raceid=&title=Bobs+to+be+kept+busy&ref=PA+Racing+Feed&nav=&sub=&day=Wed
Bobs Worth,Trainer Nicky Henderson is hopeful Bobs Worth will have a busier campaign this time around as he builds up to a defence of his Cheltenham Gold Cup crown next March.
The seven-year-old kicked off last season with a brilliant display in the Hennessy Gold Cup in early December, but was then not seen until clinching Gold Cup glory at the Festival in the spring.
Henderson said: "It was one bad tracheal wash and some bloody awful weather. He probably never really reached peak fitness last season. We were going to run him and a lot of the other top horses much more, but the winter set us back."
The Charlie Hall Chase at Wetherby and the Betfair Chase at Haydock are obvious early-season targets for Bobs Worth, but a tilt at the King George VI Chase at Kempton on Boxing Day appears highly unlikely.
"It's (Kempton) not a good track for Bobs Worth, who loves going left-handed and loves Cheltenham," said the Seven Barrows trainer.
One of Henderson's stars who could yet come into the King George reckoning is Simonsig, who completed a hat-trick over fences in the Arkle Trophy at Cheltenham.
Henderson said: "He started at over two miles and three furlongs last year, and he won the Neptune (over two miles and five furlongs) the year before that. It all tells you he stays and I wouldn't rule him out of the King George. Otherwise he's going to have to go straight in and take on Sprinter Sacre, which would be quite a pity."
Dual King George winner Long Run is likely to be back at Kempton on Boxing Day, while Oscar Whisky and My Tent Or Yours are also likely to be major flag-bearers for the stable.
Henderson claimed his first trainers' title since 1987 last season and is determined not to relinquish it. "I've still got the hunger, I want to go and win every bloody race there is and we've got a very strong team, both equine and human," he said.
"Oscar Whisky will go over fences. My Tent Or Yours will have to come in as a Champion Hurdle horse, and Grandouet is one of those, too. There's an awful lot of good ones for those races and some good youngsters, too."
Paul Nicholls looks likely to be Henderson's main challenger again this term, while Ireland's perennial champion Willie Mullins will bring an added threat after last month declaring his intention to saddle more runners in Britain.
Henderson said: "We just want to have a good year, but I don't think Paul is going to lie down just like that. He'll be trying like hell and we'll also have Willie Mullins to contend with too. Imagine what he's going to bring over here. It'll make it difficult for us."0 -
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