Where did RTE go so wrong?

This has been something I've been thinking about ...

I'm a huge UK and US TV fan - the quality of TV shows coming out of these countries are just superb and it's interesting how each produce their shows differently (from my understanding of it)-

The UK has a TV license, similar to ours, yet these go to producing some absolutely phenomenal shows like Sherlock and Luther (and many many more that others could probably name). Then you have the US, where they don't have TV licenses, but the majority of TV shows on cable are paid for by advertising, with subscription ones like HBO and Showtime (I think Showtime is subscription?) being paid for by those fees - giving incredible shows like Game of Thrones, Sopranos, Dexter, The Wire, and so many more that I can't think of right now.

So how is it that in a TV license paying country, RTE are almost constantly producing terrible shows? Admittedly I have not seen Love/Hate, but have heard excellent things about it.

Rhys Essien

How can we compete with their populations,62 million and 305 million equals a lot more money.

Marsden

Rhys Essien wrote: »

How can we compete with their populations,62 million and 305 million equals a lot more money.

It's not all about the production values. A decent script and a bit of believable acting wouldn't cost the world. Irish shows in general have neither, although I do like Love/Hate. The budget gets blown on Cathal Gowans (or whatever goon is running RTE now) champagne bill, and Pat the planks makeup.

Rhys Essien

Rhys Essien wrote: »

How can we compete with their populations,62 million and 305 million equals a lot more money.

I don't think that's a valid argument anymore though. There have been shows like Being Human and In the Flesh, which were produced on seeming microbudgets (compared to the larger networks) that came out wonderfully shot, acted, and edited. The talent is obviously there, yet it's completely underutilized.

mikom

Rhys Essien wrote: »

How can we compete with their populations,62 million and 305 million equals a lot more money.

To that end Ireland should have a smaller demographic to please.
They fail miserably at this.

Safe.
Cagey.
Cosseted.
Lack of abstract thinking.
Not enough drugs.
Result = Mattie

squonk

How can you be so negative about Fair City? God, the tension and plot twists coupled with the fine acting are worth 5 licence fees

That's it exactly - they completely fail to please the small demographic they need to. You can be guaranteed that the vast majority of people would have no problem with paying TV licenses if they were being put to use.

Problem is that RTE are stuck in the ways - they are far too "personality" driven; the Tubirdys, O' Connors, the whoever else. These people aren't needed any more, especially since TV is entering a completely new phase abroad. If they got rid of one of these hosts, can you imagine the kind of show they could produce with their yearly salary, given the right talent to write, star, and create it?

lertsnim

Deleted User wrote: »

That's it exactly - they completely fail to please the small demographic they need to.

Which demographic should they be aiming at? A lot of what they show blows the BBC, ITV etc out of the water in terms of ratings for this country

mikom

lertsnim wrote: »

Which demographic should they be aiming at? A lot of what they show blows the BBC, ITV etc out of the water in terms of ratings for this country

It should.............. it's the state broadcaster after all.
Please add a supporting link, so that I can peruse the evidence.

cali_eire

To be fair and having lived in the states for almost 20 years while there are some exceptions in general TV stateside is awful. What airs on the mainstream channels (NBC, ABC, CBS etc) is filled with thinly veiled product placement, at times ideological propaganda and reality programming aimed at the lowest common denominator. The best of American TV is from channels like HBO and Showtime and is only seen by those who pay a premium for those select channels (on premium cable as opposed to regular cable). RTE is far from stellar but for a small country with limited budgets I think it outputs better quality programming than much of the American channels I have been subjected to.

briany

I think the problem with RTE is that it is still riddled with backward, conservative and cronyistic thinking. RTE's not bad when they allow the shackles to come off and give creative license. I don't understand why it's never been done more. If they let the tea lady on the Late Late show, could they not chance it with someone with a few ideas and a will to take a risk?

mikom

cali_eire wrote: »

To be fair and having lived in the states for almost 20 years while there are some exceptions in general TV stateside is awful. What airs on the mainstream channels (NBC, ABC, CBS etc) is filled with thinly veiled product placement, at times ideological propaganda and reality programming aimed at the lowest common denominator. The best of American TV is from channels like HBO and Showtime and is only seen by those who pay a premium for those select channels (on premium cable as opposed to regular cable). RTE is far from stellar but for a small country with limited budgets I think it outputs better quality programming than much of the American channels I have been subjected to.

Could you list some of that quality programming cali_eire?

Postit

cali_eire wrote: »

To be fair and having lived in the states for almost 20 years while there are some exceptions in general TV stateside is awful. What airs on the mainstream channels (NBC, ABC, CBS etc) is filled with thinly veiled product placement, at times ideological propaganda and reality programming aimed at the lowest common denominator. The best of American TV is from channels like HBO and Showtime and is only seen by those who pay a premium for those select channels (on premium cable as opposed to regular cable). RTE is far from stellar but for a small country with limited budgets I think it outputs better quality programming than much of the American channels I have been subjected to.

Spot on! It quite common for Irish people to bash RTE with comparisons to BBC etc, but the truth is that given their annual budget, their output is amazingly good. Comparisons with BBC and select US programmes like 'The Wire' is grossly unfair, when RTE's budget is probably less than 1% of theirs.

I defy anyone who thinks RTE is rubbish to spend a few weeks watching nothing but US television and then make a judgement about RTE. I once watched the film 'Phone Booth' on US TV and it took four hours from start to finish. Couple that with non-stop repeats everyday and wall-to-wall inane canned laughter sitcom's and you'll sell you mother for a dose of RTE!

mikom

Postit wrote: »

Spot on! It quite common for Irish people to bash RTE with comparisons to BBC etc, but the truth is that given their annual budget, their output is amazingly good. Comparisons with BBC and select US programmes like 'The Wire' is grossly unfair, when RTE's budget is probably less than 1% of theirs.

I defy anyone who thinks RTE is rubbish to spend a few weeks watching nothing but US television and then make a judgement about RTE. I once watched the film 'Phone Booth' on US TV and it took four hours from start to finish. Couple that with non-stop repeats everyday and wall-to-wall inane canned laughter sitcom's and you'll sell you mother for a dose of RTE!

I know, repeats are terrible...

Count the orange R's for today........... http://www.rte.ie/tv/listings.html ............ http://www.rte.ie/tv/listings_rtetwo.html
I get around 10 on RTE 1 and 11 on RTE 2

Postit

mikom wrote: »

I know, repeats are terrible...

Count the orange R's for today........... http://www.rte.ie/tv/listings.html ............ http://www.rte.ie/tv/listings_rtetwo.html
I get around 10 on RTE 1 and 11 on RTE 2

Compare with repeats on US networks. Then get back to me! :rolleyes:

cali_eire

mikom wrote: »

Could you list some of that quality programming cali_eire?

I could list most of the schedule and I think it's superior to what's on the "broadcast" channels in the US (NBC, ABC CBS). News and current affairs - 6One, 9pm News - Much more in-depth, intelligent , informative, neutral than the abysmal network news shows in the states.

And then theres the gutsy, provocative Primetime which tackles important issues in a very authentic way which is very refreshing after the propaganda laden US current affairs shows.

Love/Hate: Very raw and real feeling as opposed to much of American Network TV which is very formulaic, airbrushed and and made in the same sound stage and back lots in Burbank.

Mrs Brown's Boys (I know this is in association the BBC ) Again very real and authentic and not the same old script regiged with a slightly different theme and new cast that many US shows are.

And even Fair City - for a soap opera it's got some depth to it - have you watched a US soap opera lately? They should run those as comedies because they are HORRIBLE. I could go on on.

I know you have your opinion but having come back from California and the centre of US TV and Film industry watching Irish TV is like a breath of fresh air in my opinion.

cali_eire

cali_eire wrote: »

I could list most of the schedule and I think it's superior to what's on the "broadcast" channels in the US (NBC, ABC CBS). News and current affairs - 6One, 9pm News - Much more in-depth, intelligent , informative, neutral than the abysmal network news shows in the states.

And then theres the gutsy, provocative Primetime which tackles important issues in a very authentic way which is very refreshing after the propaganda laden US current affairs shows.

Love/Hate: Very raw and real feeling as opposed to much of American Network TV which is very formulaic, airbrushed and and made in the same sound stage and back lots in Burbank.

Mrs Brown's Boys (I know this is in association the BBC ) Again very real and authentic and not the same old script regiged with a slightly different theme and new cast that many US shows are.

And even Fair City - for a soap opera it's got some depth to it - have you watched a US soap opera lately? They should run those as comedies because they are HORRIBLE. I could go on on.

I know you have your opinion but having come back from California and the centre of US TV and Film industry watching Irish TV is like a breath of fresh air in my opinion.

... your argument has failed simply for the reason you mentioned Mrs Brown's Boys in a positive light.

Yes, so far the only things we got right are the news and Love/Hate. But for a network that can afford to pay it's "celebrities" astonishing figures, then surely they should be able to produce much greater shows!

markfinn

RTE still exists?
I don't think I've seen it on a screen in at least a decade.

mikom

Postit wrote: »

Compare with repeats on US networks. Then get back to me! :rolleyes:

This is my truth......... show me yours.

Sorry manics.

eireannBEAR

the savage eye!!! no money no prestige yet they can produce a show that entertaining!!

RTE should be doing more of this.

mikom

cali_eire wrote: »

I could list most of the schedule and I think it's superior to what's on the "broadcast" channels in the US (NBC, ABC CBS). News and current affairs - 6One, 9pm News - Much more in-depth, intelligent , informative, neutral than the abysmal network news shows in the states.

And then theres the gutsy, provocative Primetime which tackles important issues in a very authentic way which is very refreshing after the propaganda laden US current affairs shows.

Love/Hate: Very raw and real feeling as opposed to much of American Network TV which is very formulaic, airbrushed and and made in the same sound stage and back lots in Burbank.

Mrs Brown's Boys (I know this is in association the BBC ) Again very real and authentic and not the same old script regiged with a slightly different theme and new cast that many US shows are.

And even Fair City - for a soap opera it's got some depth to it - have you watched a US soap opera lately? They should run those as comedies because they are HORRIBLE. I could go on on.

I know you have your opinion but having come back from California and the centre of US TV and Film industry watching Irish TV is like a breath of fresh air in my opinion.

Ok, so you have Love/Hate.
Fair enough, 1 mark.

Mrs Brown's Boys, that I can watch on BBC.

And Fair City........ lol.

Not much for 160 odd Euro.
How much is the TV licence to watch TV in the US again.....

cali_eire

Deleted User wrote: »

... your argument has failed simply for the reason you mentioned Mrs Brown's Boys in a positive light.

Yes, so far the only things we got right are the news and Love/Hate. But for a network that can afford to pay it's "celebrities" astonishing figures, then surely they should be able to produce much greater shows!

boneyarsebogman: Maybe you should spend a few years living outside of Ireland and come back to us with an opinion at that point. I disagree with your thoughts on Mrs Brown's Boys but hey ... you dont have to watch what you dont want. In regard salaries, I dont think their salaries are very high in relation to some other jobs in Ireland and if you dont pay them at a certain level they will be lost to other more lucrative markets. And since you insist and comparing against the US - compare the salaries against a US star's contract.

eireannBEAR

THE SAVAGE EYE!!!! are you all deaf or what???

thank my post now!!!!

cali_eire

cali_eire wrote: »

boneyarsebogman: Maybe you should spend a few years living outside of Ireland and come back to us with an opinion at that point. I disagree with your thoughts on Mrs Brown's Boys but hey ... you dont have to watch what you dont want. In regard salaries, I dont think their salaries are very high in relation to some other jobs in Ireland and if you dont pay them at a certain level they will be lost to other more lucrative markets. And since you insist and comparing against the US - compare the salaries against a US star's contract.

Mikom made the good point - Mrs Brown's Boys can't be included on here, for the simple fact that it is shown on BBC, not RTE.

You can't compare salaries against a US star's contract, because generally they are worth the money. Is Ryan Tubirdy worth the money he is paid? Heck no. Is Brendan O' Connor? Debatable.

miralize

The biggest problem I see is that they offer nothing for the young population. They've built an audience and as the broadcaster grew, they've been too afraid to change. Things like The Late Late Show have stagnated to a point where its un-watachable. Liveline, for some reason, is allowed on air as a venting solution for the geriatrics of the country. I mean ffs.

mikom

cali_eire wrote: »

In regard salaries, I dont think their salaries are very high in relation to some other jobs in Ireland

Tell that to Billy the binman being hauled in front of the judge for failing to pay Marion Finuchane upwards of 400,000 for two 2 hour radio shows a week.......... when she bothers to show up.

irishfeen

Its possibly the most watched/trusted state broadcaster (in its own country) in Europe - (19 of the top 20 programmers in Ireland last year).
RTE has many flaws but it with figures like that its a national institution with massive viewership numbers... they have to be doing something right in a country where the vast majority have access FTA to possibly the best broadcaster in the world - BBC.

You may disagree with programs/presenters and the likes but it cannot be said in any way that RTE have got the Irish broadcasting landscape wrong.

spank_inferno

Postit wrote: »

Compare with repeats on US networks. Then get back to me! :rolleyes:

US networks can repeat shows all they want.

Their viewers don't pay a punitive tax to view it.

We do.

cali_eire

Deleted User wrote: »

Mikom made the good point - Mrs Brown's Boys can't be included on here, for the simple fact that it is shown on BBC, not RTE.

You can't compare salaries against a US star's contract, because generally they are worth the money. Is Ryan Tubirdy worth the money he is paid? Heck no. Is Brendan O' Connor? Debatable.

As I said about Mrs Brown's Boys it's a co-production. RTE is indeed involved in it's creation and production. Maybe you have watched too much American TV and dont know what that mean.

mikom

irishfeen wrote: »

Its possibly the most watched/trusted state broadcaster (in its own country) in Europe - (19 of the top 20 programmers in Ireland last year).

Please support this with a link.

mikom

cali_eire wrote: »

Maybe you have watched too much American TV and dont know what that mean.

Do you know what that mean......

irishfeen

mikom wrote: »

Please support this with a link.

Here mate
http://www.rte.ie/mediasales/television/research-top-programmes.html

miralize

irishfeen wrote: »

Here mate
http://www.rte.ie/mediasales/television/research-top-programmes.html

Posted with a link to the RTE site - biased much?

I also see nothing about trustworthiness.

irishfeen

miralize wrote: »

Posted with a link to the RTE site - biased much?

I also see nothing about trustworthiness.

Read the small print mate... Where did TV3 go so wrong might be a better thread...

Source: Nielsen Television Audience Measurement / Arianna
Based on National, ROI Commercial Channels, January - December 2012, Consolidated
Averaging: Any day, Any Time, Best Episode
Minimum Programme Duration: 15 mins

miralize

irishfeen wrote: »

Read the small print mate...

Read my post again.

"Trustworthiness" - How can you even measure that?


Mate.

Wheres the 19/20 figure that pulled out?

JohnFalstaff

miralize wrote: »

Posted with a link to the RTE site - biased much?

I also see nothing about trustworthiness.

Here's another one:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/toy-show-tops-most-watched-list-1.1070988

Nineteen out of the top twenty most viewed shows on Irish TV last year were on RTE - according to TAM/Nielsen ratings.

There are many other links that will show the same figures.

irishfeen

miralize wrote: »

Read my post again.

"Trustworthiness" - How can you even measure that?


Mate.

Wheres the 19/20 figure that pulled out?

Do you honestly want me to copy and paste that table and put RTE alongside 19 of them :rolleyes:

mikom

irishfeen wrote: »

Here mate
http://www.rte.ie/mediasales/television/research-top-programmes.html

Read the small print.......... Based on National, ROI Commercial Channels.

That's RTE1, RTE 2, TnaG, TV3, and 3E.

This does not take into account the viewership numbers of every other channel outside of that little parish.

irishfeen wrote: »

Read the small print mate... Where did TV3 go so wrong might be a better thread...

Not having the crutch of the TV licence would be my guess.

miralize

irishfeen wrote: »

Do you honestly want me to copy and paste that table and put RTE alongside 19 of them :rolleyes:

A lot of those could be viewed on other stations.

Clareman

Ah now, I think you are being extremely harsh on RTÉ, they have a (relatively) small budget and have to cater for all tastes, from new borns to coffin dodgers, not everything they have on will be everyone's cup of tea but they have to cater for it. Throw in all the factual stuff they have to make as well as regional focus and also have radio stations going as loss making entities, with all that in mind they have created some great stuff down through the years.

irishfeen

mikom wrote: »

Read the small print.......... Based on National, ROI Commercial Channels.

That's RTE1, RTE 2, TnaG, TV3, and 3E.

This does not take into account the viewership numbers of every other channel outside of that little parish.



Not having the crutch of the TV licence would be my guess.

Yeah but viewership outside RTE/TV3 in Ireland is minuscule.

mikom

Clareman wrote: »

s, with all that in mind they have created some great stuff down through the years.

Throw out a few there Clareman.

irishfeen wrote: »

Yeah but viewership outside RTE/TV3 in Ireland is minuscule.

Link to back that statement up.

It's not the case in my house.

irishfeen

miralize wrote: »

A lot of those could be viewed on other stations.

Yeah of course they can but the majority are fully/part produced by RTE themselves for the Irish market.

Grimebox

HAve you seen American reality TV? I mean the stuff that's so bad that it doesn't even make it here? Check out "Real Housewives of (location)" for the other side of the coin. That program is an assault on the senses

mikom

irishfeen wrote: »

Yeah of course they can but the majority are fully/part produced by RTE themselves for the Irish market.

Is Eastenders fully/part produced by RTE themselves for the Irish market?
You know Eastenders, the one that you can flick from RTE to BBC and watch it ad free instead.
The one that RTE spends the licence fee on.

Grimebox wrote: »

HAve you seen American reality TV? I mean the stuff that's so bad that it doesn't even make it here? Check out "Real Housewives of (location)" for the other side of the coin. That program is an assault on the senses

How much is the licence to watch American reality TV?

Have you seen John Lonergan's Circus?

irishfeen

mikom wrote: »

Throw out a few there Clareman.



Link to back that statement up.

It's not the case in my house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#cite_note-52

the_syco

Marsden wrote: »

It's not all about the production values. A decent script and a bit of believable acting wouldn't cost the world.

Risk is only something you do when you can afford a flop. RTE can't really afford flops, so they don't take many risks, IMO.

JohnFalstaff

mikom wrote: »

Read the small print.......... Based on National, ROI Commercial Channels.

That's RTE1, RTE 2, TnaG, TV3, and 3E.

This does not take into account the viewership numbers of every other channel outside of that little parish.

This is the viewing share for every channel on Irish TV for the week 03-06-13 to 09-06-13. RTE One far outstrips every other channel... as it does every week.

TV3 has been gaining ground, mostly thanks to imports like Coronation Street.


RTÉ One 17.7
RTÉ Two 8.1
TV3 12.2
TG4 1.6
3e 2.0
Setanta Ireland 0.5
BBC One 3.4
BBC Two 1.4
UTV 2.7
Channel 4 1.8
Sky1 1.2
Sky2 0.3
Sky Living 0.6
Sky Atlantic 0.2
Sky News 0.9
Sky Sports News 0.9
Sky Sports1 0.3
Sky Sports2 0.5
At The Races 0.8
Comedy Central 0.9
E4 0.8
MTV 0.4
Dave 0.6
GOLD 0.5
Discovery 0.7

irishfeen

mikom wrote: »

Is Eastenders fully/part produced by RTE themselves for the Irish market?
You know Eastenders, the one that you can flick from RTE to BBC and watch it ad free instead.
The one that RTE spends the licence fee on.



How much is the licence to watch American reality TV?

Ah sorry I thought you were referring to the list of programs in the top 20 list..

irishfeen

I don't particularly understand the hatred for RTE here, its a decent organisation with some quality programming.

copacetic

mikom wrote: »

Read the small print.......... Based on National, ROI Commercial Channels.

That's RTE1, RTE 2, TnaG, TV3, and 3E.

This does not take into account the viewership numbers of every other channel outside of that little parish.



Not having the crutch of the TV licence would be my guess.

You've misunderstood what ROI commercial channels means, it's not just the Irish channels, it's all channels registered to get individual viewer numbers in Ireland recorded by TAM Ireland so they can charge advertisers for the ad views. I.e everyone except for BBC. They record BBC channels too, as although they don't pay, the other companies want to know their figures.

The list of programmes includes anything on any channel viewed in Ireland, bbc programmes would be listed under others.

The top single programmes for all individually monitored broadcasters is

http://www.tamireland.ie/node/316