PSV for Minibus?

Cullen82

Hi guys,

Minibus (less than 8 seats) for a Tour Company, Is it necessary for the driver/owner to have a PSV?

The information sites re PSV, Department of Transport and whatever else Ive been scouring today don't specify whether its required.

Does anyone know the answer to the above?

I will try calling around tomorrow if nobody can help me here but I'm anticipating a lengthy merry-go-round and a nice long game of pass the buck

Thanks

CiniO

Cullen82 wrote: »

Hi guys,

Minibus (less than 8 seats) for a Tour Company, Is it necessary for the driver/owner to have a PSV?

The information sites re PSV, Department of Transport and whatever else Ive been scouring today don't specify whether its required.

Does anyone know the answer to the above?

I will try calling around tomorrow if nobody can help me here but I'm anticipating a lengthy merry-go-round and a nice long game of pass the buck

Thanks

My understanding is that SPSV licence is needed for someone willing to drive a taxi or hackney for reward - so in other word vehicles that carry passengers on routes of their choice for a fare.

Bus tours on 8 seater minibus doesn't seem to look like falling into that category, but I might be compeltely wrong.

jca

You only need PSV if the bus is a Hackney/Taxi and is being driven for hire or reward. With something like an 8 seater hire vehicle all you need is a standard driving licence.

Cullen82

jca wrote: »

You only need PSV if the bus is a Hackney/Taxi and is being driven for hire or reward. With something like an 8 seater hire vehicle all you need is a standard driving licence.

Thanks lads, I was of he same opinion until I called a certain driving school near a place where airplanes take off lol they said psv was necessary but I wasnt convinced they were sure of it themselves.

If you dont mind me asking - how sure are you of this jca? I just want to make sure I am covered on this from a legal perspective.

Cheers

jca

I drive an 8 seater for hire so I need a PSV. On anyones full Irish licence you can carry 8 passengers, the PSV element only needed if the vehicle is a Taxi/Hackney and you are driving for hire or reward. What exactly are you going to do? Are you hiring an 8 seater on holidays etc? If so you are fine with your full licence.

Cullen82

jca wrote: »

I drive an 8 seater for hire so I need a PSV. On anyones full Irish licence you can carry 8 passengers, the PSV element only needed if the vehicle is a Taxi/Hackney and you are driving for hire or reward. What exactly are you going to do? Are you hiring an 8 seater on holidays etc? If so you are fine with your full licence.

Thanks jca, No not at all - I am starting a Tour Company where we will be bringing people on day trips around the city and nearby towns...so it is for Hire/reward - its obviously just not a "taxi/hackney"

jca

Cullen82 wrote: »

Thanks jca, No not at all - I am starting a Tour Company where we will be bringing people on day trips around the city and nearby towns...so it is for Hire/reward - its obviously just not a "taxi/hackney"

You'll need a PSV drivers licence for that type of work. The bus will need to be licensed(plated), insured and nct'd as a psv. The National transport authority site should give you all the info you need. If you get a larger bus i.e. more than 8 seats you only need a D1 licence(up to 16 people). The bus has to be insured as psv, doe'd and inspected by your local psv officer to be legal.

CiniO

jca wrote: »

You'll need a PSV drivers licence for that type of work. The bus will need to be licensed(plated), insured and nct'd as a psv.

Are you sure about it?
If I wanted to start a business where I take customers on tours in my car to show them around, would I need to have PSV licence and car licensed as PSV?
That wouldn't be either taxi or hackney.

Gary ITR

CiniO wrote: »

Are you sure about it?
If I wanted to start a business where I take customers on tours in my car to show them around, would I need to have PSV licence and car licensed as PSV?
That wouldn't be either taxi or hackney.

You'd need a PSV and the licensed as a PSV. Basically if you're transporting passengers for money then you need a PSV. Funeral cars, party limos even the A Team limo (:eek:) needs a PSV

CiniO

Gary ITR wrote: »

You'd need a PSV and the licensed as a PSV. Basically if you're transporting passengers for money then you need a PSV. Funeral cars, party limos even the A Team limo (:eek:) needs a PSV

I'm transporting passengers for money, and I don't have PSV.
However we are not charging them a fare, but transport is just part of wider range of service we are offering - for which they pay.
Also we do it in large vehicles (minibuses, coaches) but I don't think it changes much.

If you want to transport passengers in 16 seater minibus or 50 seater coach for reward, you need to have licence for transport on this vehicle.
We don't have it, and we don't need it, as we are not hiring the buses, or charging fares, but we provide transport just as part of our service (i.e customers need to be transported between A and B to avail of our service which we provide in this points (A and


I'm not sure about SPSV as it's not my thing, but I'd imagine if OP is providing tours which consist of guide telling stories about some places and needs to transport his customers between those places, then this kind of transport shouldn't need to be licensed for PSV.

jca

CiniO wrote: »

I'm transporting passengers for money, and I don't have PSV.
However we are not charging them a fare, but transport is just part of wider range of service we are offering - for which they pay.
Also we do it in large vehicles (minibuses, coaches) but I don't think it changes much.

If you want to transport passengers in 16 seater minibus or 50 seater coach for reward, you need to have licence for transport on this vehicle.
We don't have it, and we don't need it, as we are not hiring the buses, or charging fares, but we provide transport just as part of our service (i.e customers need to be transported between A and B to avail of our service which we provide in this points (A and


I'm not sure about SPSV as it's not my thing, but I'd imagine if OP is providing tours which consist of guide telling stories about some places and needs to transport his customers between those places, then this kind of transport shouldn't need to be licensed for PSV.

That's illegal. You should have a psv for driving an 8 seater or smalker and a D1 or D licence for the larger buses. The vehickes should also be insured for hire and reward + public liability.
If you don't want to commit to making your buses legal you should employ the services of a firm who do.

CiniO

jca wrote: »

That's illegal. You should have a psv for driving an 8 seater or smalker and a D1 or D licence for the larger buses.

Wait a sec.
You are mixing a terms in here.
PSV license allowing someone to drive for reward small PSV's.
D1 or D are categories of driving licences.
Those are completely separate things.
Like anyone willing to drive PSV, must have B licence which entitles him to drive that kind of vehicle. PSV licence is just another thing which taxi industry requires from taxi and hackney drivers.

The vehickes should also be insured for hire and reward + public liability.
If you don't want to commit to making your buses legal you should employ the services of a firm who do.

I'm not sure if you are refering to my case about buses and transporting our customers, but if yes - then believe me - we are doing it absolutely legally - and that's confirmed with appropriate authorities.

Cullen82

To Confirm: After bad advice from all areas.

PSV IS REQUIRED

Its ridiculous, I did the PSV test which bears ZERO relevance to my company or what we do.

The worst part about it is that An Garda will now take their time vetting it and by then the tourist season will be over leaving me out of pocket between now and March of next year with no government/welfare assistance. When I asked how long it might take to be vetted the local Garda said jokingly, it depends on whenever we can get around to looking at it.......useless

Another racket

jca

I like your gratitude there. Many here told you that a psv was required to be legal. Did you pass the knowledge/certified driver exam first time? Fair play to you if you did. Its a tough exam, pricey too!+ €250 for the licence. You'd want some certainty that you'll make the money back.

Cullen82

jca wrote: »

I like your gratitude there. Many here told you that a psv was required to be legal. Did you pass the knowledge/certified driver exam first time? Fair play to you if you did. Its a tough exam, pricey too!+ €250 for the licence. You'd want some certainty that you'll make the money back.

No sorry jca that sounded harsh and was wring of me to write a post like that, I meant bad advice from the actual "authorities". In fairness posters here did say that but with contradicting info on here I had to look for something concrete...Went to guards again, airport driving school (buses) and finally the National road transport authority who rule over it...they ALL said it wasnt necessary and so I was satisfied with this (this was only a day or two after posting this)

So even though I did the psv test and yeah I passed it first time (thanks)....I didnt send it off to be vetted because they all told me it wasnt necessary in my case, I just carried on organising everything else I had on my plate.

Felt like such an idiot today when on the phone to transport authority about something else and they told me it was definitely needed. Cant tell you how infuriated I was to hear that even after what all the above "officials" told me that I trusted their word and now behind by a further 3 weeks

Thanks for the advice

CiniO

Authorities are not always right either.

I remember a thread from here about minibuses (up to 8 passengers) which owners were forced to install speed limiters on them in order to pass a DOE test.

This was stupid from the very beginning, as there is no special speed limit for these vehicles, and legislation which requires fitting of speed limiters apply only to minibuses with 9 passenger seats or more (those for which at least D1 licence is required).
But even though they were not required by law, RSA issued direction for all DOE test centres to fail those vehicles if they don't have speed limiters fitted, and didn't bother to check if law actually even required it.

So I wouldn't be surprised if info you got from different authorities was incorrect.

jca

That's a bloody killer. Do you know anyone in your area with a psv that could drive the bus for you until you get sorted? Although with the huge price increase to renew the psv a lot of people who were keeping it "just in case" didn't bother renewing it. Drivers and decent 8 seater buses are very scarce. What type of 8 seater did you buy?

jca

CiniO wrote: »

Authorities are not always right either.

I remember a thread from here about minibuses (up to 8 passengers) which owners were forced to install speed limiters on them in order to pass a DOE test.

This was stupid from the very beginning, as there is no special speed limit for these vehicles, and legislation which requires fitting of speed limiters apply only to minibuses with 9 passenger seats or more (those for which at least D1 licence is required).
But even though they were not required by law, RSA issued direction for all DOE test centres to fail those vehicles if they don't have speed limiters fitted, and didn't bother to check if law actually even required it.

So I wouldn't be surprised if info you got from different authorities was incorrect.

8 Seaters aren't doe'd they go through the nct and don't require speed limiters.

CiniO

jca wrote: »

8 Seaters aren't doe'd they go through the nct and don't require speed limiters.

See I referred to f.e. this thead.

But I looked up now, and indeed it looks like minibuses with 9 seats (8+1) are liable for NCT, not DOE.

trad

SPSV Drivers Licence http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/spsv-driver-licensing/

SPSV vehicle Licence http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/spsv-vehicle-licensing/

If you are driving people around for reward and you and the vehicle are not licensed you are heading for a whole load of trouble.

If you are involved in an accident and have only SDP insurance, your insurance company will run a mile from you and you could find yourself personally liable.

jca

trad wrote: »

SPSV Drivers Licence http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/spsv-driver-licensing/

SPSV vehicle Licence http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/spsv-vehicle-licensing/

If you are driving people around for reward and you and the vehicle are not licensed you are heading for a whole load of trouble.

If you are involved in an accident and have only SDP insurance, your insurance company will run a mile from you and you could find yourself personally liable.

Slightly later than advertised:). Spot on post.

Max210

Do I need an operators licence if my mini bus is for private hire

CiniO

Max210 wrote: »

Do I need an operators licence if my mini bus is for private hire

What is a private hire in your case?

Max210

Hi sorry new to using this,

party bus ,

Spook_ie

Depends on number of seats among other things

Max210

CiniO wrote: »

What is a private hire in your case?

16 Seater , have insurance sorted

Max210

has taco , was a party up the north

Spook_ie

Max210 wrote: »

has taco , was a party up the north

No SPSV license required, but you will require a D/D1 license, driver cpc and a bus license from the NTA

Edit. To clarify, if you vary the price dependant on the number of passengers it's a bus service, if you don't vary the price I.e you are hiring the vehicle in its entirety regardless of the number of passengers then you don't
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/bus/service-requiring-a-licence/

Max210

Yeah have driver with d 1 license and cpc done this is for the south of Ireland , it very hard to find any information on this subject. Thanks a million your a star where would I find more info .

Spook_ie

See the added edit to previous post

CiniO

Spook_ie wrote: »

No SPSV license required, but you will require a D/D1 license, driver cpc and a bus license from the NTA

Edit. To clarify, if you vary the price dependant on the number of passengers it's a bus service, if you don't vary the price I.e you are hiring the vehicle in its entirety regardless of the number of passengers then you don't
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/bus/service-requiring-a-licence/

That's in relation to public bus licence.

But even if someone hires a bus as vehicle entirely for a group for set price, they still need licence for passenger transport to operate such bus.

Spook_ie

CiniO wrote: »

That's in relation to public bus licence.

But even if someone hires a bus as vehicle entirely for a group for set price, they still need licence for passenger transport to operate such bus.

Not according to the last line of the link, can't cut n paste on the phone but I'll see if I can get on the pc later

CiniO

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not according to the last line of the link, can't cut n paste on the phone but I'll see if I can get on the pc later

I think you are mixing two separate things.
Public bus licence is different thing to road passenger transport operator's licence.

To carry people for reward in your bus, no matter how you charge those people for it (with set fares, or rent out whole bus with driver to carry a group wherever they want) you need Road passenger transport operator's licence.

If you want to run buses, and pick up people from bus stops, you need the above licence + additionally Public bus licence which you linked information to.

Max210

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not according to the last line of the link, can't cut n paste on the phone but I'll see if I can get on the pc later

Thanks you are a great help:)

CiniO

Here's more info:

Road Passenger Transport Operator Licence

You need a Road Passenger Transport Operator's Licence if you are carrying passengers by road for hire or reward in vehicles constructed and equipped so as to be suitable for carrying nine or more passengers.

"Hire or Reward" arises when you are paid for carrying passengers. If carrying passengers is not your main business, and if you are not charging your passengers a fee, then you do not need a Licence.

For example, a hotel that owns a bus that it uses to ferry its guests, as a complimentary service, to and from an airport or tourist attractions, would not need a Licence.

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Professional-Drivers/Owners-and-managers/Operator-licensing/

Spook_ie

CiniO wrote: »

I think you are mixing two separate things.
Public bus licence is different thing to road passenger transport operator's licence.

To carry people for reward in your bus, no matter how you charge those people for it (with set fares, or rent out whole bus with driver to carry a group wherever they want) you need Road passenger transport operator's licence.

If you want to run buses, and pick up people from bus stops, you need the above licence + additionally Public bus licence which you linked information to.

You are correct there is another license from the RSA, see here IMO. They could make it easier for people if the NTA had links to things you need not covered by them
http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Professional-Drivers/Owners-and-managers/Operator-licensing/

Max210

Yeah saw that but need 9,000 in bank to apply for license

Going Forward

Max210 wrote: »

Hi sorry new to using this,

party bus ,

Have you bought it already?


The legal aspect depends on whether you are intending on hiring your vehicle to the public for a fee unless you're going to provide the service for free it'll be for hire and reward, private/public hire doesn't come into it in that regard.

If you are you'll need an operators license, a driver with D D1 drivers licence and up to date CpC , vehicle will need current DOE and PSV licence from guards and need to be insured for hire and reward.

Max210

Going Forward wrote: »

Have you bought it already?


The legal aspect depends on whether you are intending on hiring your vehicle to the public for a fee unless you're going to provide the service for free it'll be for hire and reward, private/public hire doesn't come into it in that regard.

If you are you'll need an operators license, a driver with D D1 drivers licence and up to date CpC , vehicle will need current DOE and PSV licence from guards and need to be insured for hire and reward.

. Yeah have it already have insurance sorted , and drivers has all the above , is it hard to get the operators licence

Going Forward

Max210 wrote: »

. Yeah have it already have insurance sorted , and drivers has all the above , is it hard to get the operators licence

It's comes from the Dept transport, there's a course, and exam.

I looked at doing a party bus years ago, was told by guys in bus game to steer clear because lots of them have been built with wrong seats and layout etc and are not particularly liked by PSV officers because they don't like signing off on them if they're anyway out of the ordinary.
Is it definitely DOed?

jca

Max210 wrote: »

. Yeah have it already have insurance sorted , and drivers has all the above , is it hard to get the operators licence

If you're in either Wexford or Waterford you'll struggle to get either of those psv sergeant's to ok a party bus...

Max210

Thanks it has been runing as a party bus up the north

Going Forward

Max210 wrote: »

Thanks it has been runing as a party bus up the north

The licensing regime is different in the UK.

You never said if it was DOE'd is it?

Max210

yes it is being DOE'D