Cyclists on the M11

bmaxi

This is becoming a regular weekend thing and I'm not talking about random cyclists but cycling clubs. Sometimes groups of up to twenty can be seen but today took the biscuit when one group appeared to be accompanied by a pace car :eek:. This is a joke, the RSA spend taxpayers' money on advertising all the disastrous consequences of not adhering to safety measures on our motorways and yet Gardaí are content to ignore what must be one of the most dangerous practices, as parts of the M11 around Arklow have steep hills and the cyclists can't keep to a straight course.
Perhaps a €500 fine and points on the licence of those that hold them would perk up attention from all concerned.

No Pants

You called the guards to report it and they ignored you?

bmaxi

No Pants wrote: »

You called the guards to report it and they ignored you?

Shortly after passing one group I was overtaken by a Garda car which can't have failed to see them. The Garda car was in no particular hurry, no lights, sirens etc.and even if that had been the case, I presume they were in radio contact with base . Garda patrols are a common sight on the M11 around Arklow and as I say this is a regular occurrence.

mikemcdeedy100

maybe they weren't breaking the law buddy

TINA1984

mikemcdeedy100 wrote: »

maybe they weren't breaking the law buddy

:rolleyes:

Mycroft H

mikemcdeedy100 wrote: »

maybe they weren't breaking the law buddy

ehhhh no. They are. Cyclists shouldn't be on the motorway. anyone with a bit of sense should see that.

lottpaul

They are definitely breaking the law - and are a common weekend sight on any trips I make to the east -- but some of the "blame" must be with the constant changing from M11 to N11 and back again without any apparent change in the actual road itself (may not be explaining myself very well). Between the Dublin border and Arklow it goes from N11 -100 kph, to 60 kph, to 100, to 80 in the Glen of the Downs, to 100 again, then to M11, 120, down to 100 etc before finally going to dual carriageway again - 100kph of course and then 120. For the cyclists to avoid the 120 section in Arklow they have to go into and through the town. Which is safer I wonder?
No answers I'm afraid but it is a mess at present.

Leroy42

The fact that it is constantly changing and a bit of a mess is irrelevant. The law states that no bicycles on the motorway and as such that's it. If that means they need to go through the town then so be it.

I cycle, and have been out with the club and one went this route. I saw them heading onto the M11 and stopped. 1st it's illegal, 2nd it's too dangerous with cars flying by at speed particularly since they do not expect to a cyclist on the road.

Dravokivich

lottpaul wrote: »

but some of the "blame" must be with the constant changing from M11 to N11 and back again

I have a feeling that could be part of a problem with a lot of the N roads, that switch to M roads.

You won't see it generally on a road such as the M50, that's entirely an M road.

Macy0161

They're a regular site on the M11 to M50, including through the winter in darkness. Including going up and over the flyover on the M11 at the start of the M50 where there isn't even a proper hard shoulder.

Changing speed limits/ designation is no excuse - at the start of the motorways there is clear signage. As for safer, I doubt it's safer to be somewhere that other drivers aren't expecting you. Additionally, if they're using the hard shoulder, that's also pretty dangerous place to be - the advice if you break down is to get out of your vehicle and get away from the carriageway.

Shedite27

It's a pity, coz I live in Ranlagh and love going for cycles in Wicklow. But anytime I go down the N11, I have to go through Shankill and Bray to get to Wicklow. Is there any legal way to get to say Wicklow Town without going through the towns or the motorway?

gobnaitolunacy

That is pretty fcukin' idiotic by any standards.

Macy0161

Shedite27 wrote: »

It's a pity, coz I live in Ranlagh and love going for cycles in Wicklow. But anytime I go down the N11, I have to go through Shankill and Bray to get to Wicklow. Is there any legal way to get to say Wicklow Town without going through the towns or the motorway?

If you don't want to go through Bray and Shankill, you could go through Old Conna (parallel to the M11, but the high side). Non motorway vehicles are directed to the old pre M11 route, it's not like they're blocked from something they used to have access too.

Just to state, I do cycle - personally could think of nothing worse than going along a motoway!

lottpaul

Shedite27 wrote: »

It's a pity, coz I live in Ranlagh and love going for cycles in Wicklow. But anytime I go down the N11, I have to go through Shankill and Bray to get to Wicklow. Is there any legal way to get to say Wicklow Town without going through the towns or the motorway?

No, the M11 section from Coynes Cross means you must leave the road at that point but the old N11 is fine from there on and is a nice road. To me, Arklow seems to be a bigger problem in that the bypass/M11 is far shorter than the old N11 but as its a motorway cyclists are not allowed - and as others have said its dangerous for them anyway. Mind you, its not too safe or pleasant on the N11 sections either I'd imagine?

bmaxi

Leroy42 wrote: »

The fact that it is constantly changing and a bit of a mess is irrelevant. The law states that no bicycles on the motorway and as such that's it. If that means they need to go through the town then so be it.

I cycle, and have been out with the club and one went this route. I saw them heading onto the M11 and stopped. 1st it's illegal, 2nd it's too dangerous with cars flying by at speed particularly since they do not expect to a cyclist on the road.

Whist I agree that the constant changing of M to N road is a mess, it is quite obvious for some distance, even travelling at 100kph, that this is going to happen so it must be even more obvious at bike speed. I believe it is a deliberate choice on the part of the cyclists to take this route not merely a mistake but once again the greatest blame IMO lies with those charged with upholding and enforcing the law. The laws are not there to be cherrypicked, you can't decide arbitrarily which will and will not be enforced without the risk of losing public respect for the whole procedure.

Shedite27

Macy0161 wrote: »

If you don't want to go through Bray and Shankill, you could go through Old Conna (parallel to the M11, but the high side).

I must have a look at that road. Shankill and Bray can be killer for traffic

lottpaul wrote: »

Mind you, its not too safe or pleasant on the N11 sections either I'd imagine?

The N11 can be a mess alright. As I said I only use it as far as Shankill but the standard of what passes as a "bike lane" is quite different every 100m. And if you venture into the bus lane you're at the mercy of Dublin bus drivers.

Cookie_Monster

lottpaul wrote: »

No, the M11 section from Coynes Cross means you must leave the road at that point but the old N11 is fine from there on and is a nice road. To me, Arklow seems to be a bigger problem in that the bypass/M11 is far shorter than the old N11 but as its a motorway cyclists are not allowed - and as others have said its dangerous for them anyway. Mind you, its not too safe or pleasant on the N11 sections either I'd imagine?

Anything from the city to Loughlinstown is fine, if a bit boring. Bray to Coins is a great bit of road for cycling, especially the Glen of the downs section

Shedite27 wrote: »

I must have a look at that road. Shankill and Bray can be killer for traffic

http://goo.gl/maps/oosVM

BenShermin

As a cyclist myself moronic carry on like this really annoys me. It only adds fuel to the "you don't pay road tax" brigade's argument.

Cars travelling along here go at 120km/h speeds and don't expect to see pedal cyclists, pedestrians etc. one "foreign object" in the hard shoulder could cause one cyclist to swerve into the left lane and then cause one car to swerve into the right overtaking lane and then cause a pile up. It's suicidal stuff tbh.

Macy0161

There's been a few cyclists on the M11 northbound in the mornings the last couple of weeks (could be the same guy). This morning, he wasn't even content with the hard shoulder and was cycling right on the hard shoulder/ driving lane divide around the Bray North junction - total lunacy, given the air displacement that a truck/ van/ campervan can cause.

Shedite27

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Anything from the city to Loughlinstown is fine, if a bit boring. Bray to Coins is a great bit of road for cycling, especially the Glen of the downs section

http://goo.gl/maps/oosVM

I had a cycle down this way a few weeks ago actually. The zig zag bit coming off the n11 at cherrywood had me rightly confused. Took me a while to figure out where that was going.

vickers209

Good few tractors on it today in hard shoulder heading from rathnew towards coins cross and on to newtown seen a combine far side of kilmac going past enniskerry turn (not a motorway till past fasaroe exit tho)

Surveyor11

http://goo.gl/maps/xYTd3 - this is enough to remind you it's a motorway. Totally idiotic, but probably the only country you'd get away with it.

Owryan

Was a passenger on the motorway from Kilkenny to Carlow on Friday. We passed a large group of cyclists and even worse a car pulled in on the hard shoulder, 2 kids climbing the bank and I assume mammy having a fag n a cuppa !!!!

Mycroft H

Can't understand why anyone would chose this road over quieter side roads. I drive daily and I'd imagine it's actually not a pleasant road to cycle on. It's too busy, noisy and boring.

ProudDUB

Owryan wrote: »

Was a passenger on the motorway from Kilkenny to Carlow on Friday. We passed a large group of cyclists and even worse a car pulled in on the hard shoulder, 2 kids climbing the bank and I assume mammy having a fag n a cuppa !!!!

That's utter madness. You should have called the Guards & reported them. I passed a large group of cyclists on the M7 once. They were doing some sort of charity bike ride. They had 2 police motor cyclists acting as escorts, one in front and one at the back. Both of them had their flashing blue lights on to alert motorists what was going on. They are the only circumstances when it should be allowed imo, and even then, I think its a bit dodgy and very unsafe.

Grandeeod

Alas, Ireland is still coming to terms with the whole Motorway culture. The biggest disappointment for me is the law enforcement and complete lack of it. It almost appears as if the Gardai are stuck in the same ignorance as those that blatantly treat a 120KM roadway like a playground. Funnily enough they have no problem racing after you if you are over the speed limit. Ireland is confused at a very high level. Priorities are arseways!

Carawaystick

How many cyclists have been killed or injured on motorways?
I mean if its very dangerous, surely some have

Cyclists were allowed cycle the arklow bypass for a long while after it opened. It's interesting that the n11 north of the arklow bypass is a sez due to a number of road deaths as is the route through Arklow from Bridge street south the whole way to the Kish.

jackofalltrades

Carawaystick wrote: »

How many cyclists have been killed or injured on motorways?
I mean if its very dangerous, surely some have

How many cyclists have been killed on the non-illegal R772 through Arklow?
Are you seriously trying to suggest that cycling on motorways is safe?

It'll take someone having a blow-out and ploughing into a group of cyclists for something to be done about this.

Spook_ie

Carawaystick wrote: »

How many cyclists have been killed or injured on motorways?
I mean if its very dangerous, surely some have

Cyclists were allowed cycle the arklow bypass for a long while after it opened. It's interesting that the n11 north of the arklow bypass is a sez due to a number of road deaths as is the route through Arklow from Bridge street south the whole way to the Kish.

If cyclists were using all the motorways all the time the casualty rate would I imagine be quite high, however, due the majority of cyclists being law abiding about not riding on motorways the situation doesn't normally arise, but if its getting to be a regular occurrence on a particular stretch of motorway then I believe the traffic corp should be advised and if they don't do anything the minister should be advised

Shedite27

BX 19 wrote: »

Can't understand why anyone would chose this road over quieter side roads. I drive daily and I'd imagine it's actually not a pleasant road to cycle on. It's too busy, noisy and boring.

As someone who likes cycling the Wicklow mountains, there are definitely days when I'd prefer to stick on the motorway back to Dublin, as a triathlete it's about the only chance you get to experience/train going top speed safely on Irish roads.

Not saying this justifies going on a motorway, just trying to explain why some people might do it.

ThisRegard

Shedite27 wrote: »

as a triathlete it's about the only chance you get to experience/train going top speed safely on Irish roads.

Seriously ? You should ask the competitive cycling guys how they manage to train and hit full speed without having to do so on a motorway.