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Nelson Mandela: Hero or Villain?

  • 23-06-2013 11:22PM
    #1
    pheno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭


    I've been hearing a lot about Nelson Mandela on the radio recently, primarily about his health, so I thought I should know more about the man.

    What I would like to know is, some consider him a hero for his fight to end apartheid (segregation) in South Africa, others say he is a terrorist and a communist.

    Now I am aware that ANC had connections with the Soviet Union but what exactly makes Mandela "good" or "bad"?

    Thanks...


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Comments

  • #2
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    still here! :)


  • #3
    dodderangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,203 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    Immortal
    The fcuker just won't die


  • #4
    hidinginthebush
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭hidinginthebush


    Maggie Thatcher saw him as a terrorist, so he's good in my books!


  • #5
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    has he Irish antecedents? :pac:


  • #6
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    He's treated as some sort of saint.

    I still haven't met anyone who has explained exactly why


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  • #7
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Well he played a hero in Snakes On A Plane.


  • #8
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    was he ever shot by Bang Bang? :P


  • #9
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Hitchens wrote: »
    was he ever shot by Bang Bang? :P

    Hey hi diddly ay and out goes she


  • #10
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    IMHO, he was as useful to his country, as an ashtray on a motorbike.


  • #11
    pheno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭pheno


    I always wondered, why is he considered such a saint? I mean surely there has to be a darker side to his "holiness".


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  • #12
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    will he croak in time for tomorrows episode of................'Da Lavelahn'? :D


  • #13
    thorbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭thorbarry


    Sidekick


  • #14
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,355 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    You look at the people who slate him - Thatcher, BNP leader Nick Griffin, etc and it's pretty clear that he's a hero.


  • #15
    Buzz84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 217 ✭✭Buzz84


    pheno wrote: »
    I've been hearing a lot about Nelson Mandela on the radio recently, primarily about his health, so I thought I should know more about the man.

    What I would like to know is, some consider him a hero for his fight to end apartheid (segregation) in South Africa, others say he is a terrorist and a communist.

    Now I am aware that ANC had connections with the Soviet Union but what exactly makes Mandela "good" or "bad"?

    Thanks...

    How does that make you bad?


  • #16
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    IMHO, he was as useful to his country, as an ashtray on a motorbike.

    Yes but you know nothing Botha boy.


  • #17
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Buzz84 wrote: »
    How does that make you bad?

    He wasn't a communist but were he one he wouldn't be a hero. Same as fascism.


  • #18
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    The man was a hero imho. Sure he wasn't perfect, but then no one is.


  • #19
    Buzz84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 217 ✭✭Buzz84


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    He wasn't a communist but were he one he wouldn't be a hero. Same as fascism.

    Could you please explain why?


  • #20
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Major member of ANC.
    Set up the armed wing , which was a "clean" terror group targeting government buildings etc. ( although later , when he was in jail it commited some civilian attacks).
    spent 27 years in jail.
    Helped end apartheid with DeKlerk when he was released.

    Probably stopped a civil war because he was loved by white and black as president.

    Other than that - he didn't help much.


  • #21
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Buzz84 wrote: »
    Could you please explain why?

    Because communism is a necessarily totalitarian system. Since he is not one this is off topic. Set up a thread in politics and invite me in if you want to discuss political theories - though it's been done to death.


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Major member of ANC.
    Set up the armed wing , which was a "clean" terror group targeting government buildings etc. ( although later , when he was in jail it commited some civilian attacks).
    spent 27 years in jail.
    Helped end apartheid with DeKlerk when he was released.

    Probably stopped a civil war because he was loved by white and black as president.

    Other than that - he didn't help much.

    You forgot to add what seems to have happened after: where under Mandela SA becomes a practical one party state with some of the most corrupt leaders in the world, who Mandela not only endorses, but uses his own personal cash to prop them up.

    I can see why the Irish establishment love him, at least.


  • #23
    T-Maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    IMHO, he was as useful to his country, as an ashtray on a motorbike.

    Love him or hate him, at least educate yourself before you make comments like this.


  • #24
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    Love him or hate him, at least educate yourself before you make comments like this.

    I have, and I would like to hear of some of his achievements, after he became president and his country was so called liberated. Besides the corruption.


  • #25
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    You forgot to add what seems to have happened after: where under Mandela SA becomes a practical one party state with some of the most corrupt leaders in the world, who Mandela not only endorses, but uses his own personal cash to prop them up.

    I can see why the Irish establishment love him, at least.

    He's a member of the ANC. Two problems there

    1) the ANC may be corrupt ( I really don't know) but it's not a racist anti democratic force oppressing a minority which is also corrupt. That's progress. Making things better is not the same as making things perfect. The first is possible, the second is idealism.
    2) it's a one party state because people vote that way. Eventually newer parties will take over.

    Things might get worse from now but that will be because Mandela is gone.


  • #26
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    I have, and I would like to hear of some of his achievements, after he became president and his country was so called liberated. Besides the corruption.

    He ended apartheid, Botha boy. It wasn't so-called liberated it was actually liberated.

    Is this hatred of Mandela because the typical Irish mediocrity is anti all politicians now , or is there something more sinister going on.


  • #27
    T-Maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    He ended apartheid, Botha boy. It wasn't so-called liberated it was actually liberated.

    Is this hatred of Mandela because the typical Irish mediocrity is anti all politicians now , or is there something more sinister going on.

    I think you nailed it there.


  • #28
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    He ended apartheid, Botha boy. It wasn't so-called liberated it was actually liberated.

    Is this hatred of Mandela because the typical Irish mediocrity is anti all politicians now , or is there something more sinister going on.

    Childish abuse is not necessary. Your comment is not worthy of a reply.


  • #29
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    More of a poster boy for the new movement than anything else.There were more effective figures pulling his strings behind the scenes.


    Just to clarify I don't mean that in a crazed conspiricy theorist kind of way.He was a puppet used by his own,and no harm really.


  • #30
    grizzly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭grizzly


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    I have, and I would like to hear of some of his achievements, after he became president and his country was so called liberated. Besides the corruption.

    One of the biggest achievements was simply keeping everything together. SA could have been torn apart with people taking revenge for years of oppression. Mandela showed tremendous forgiveness towards the people who made his life hell.


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  • #31
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    Childish abuse is not necessary. Your comment is not worthy of a reply.

    I'm calling you that because you mistook DeKlerk for Botha in the other thread but were certain as to why "Botha" was doing a deal. Strong statements need people to know what they are talking about and you seem to have no clue on Mandela, just a taxi driver rant on the lines of "they're all the same".


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