Landlord wants to change electricity supplier

annie.t

Hi
I live in rented apartment. Last week all tenants in our apartment complex got letters from letting agency stating that landlord had decided to switch electricity supplier to prepaypower.ie and from now on it is going to be in landlords name. We were given a week to submit a form where we agree to T&C and give them our details to close account with current provider.

Now I'm with Electric Ireland for years (previously ESB) and I don't really want to change that. It is actually the only utility bill in my name as there is no gas in the apartment and it could be hassle for me in the future as many institutions insist on utility bill as a proof of address and don't exept phone bill etc.
Plus I'm happy with post pay by direct debit. It's just more convenient for me to pay this way.

My question is: can they do that? Can they force me to switch electricity provider?

BTW my lease is not up until end of October.

PS. Sorry for mistakes - I'm not english native speaker.

keith16

They absolutely can not do that. Agreement for electricity is between you and the supplier. Is your name currently on the bill or is it it the landloards?

annie.t

Bill is in my name and has always been

L1011

PPP are the dearest provider on the market also, so you definitely don't want to change there.

I can see why the landlord wants to - it'll ensure that nobody runs away without paying as its a prepayment meter - but there is zero advantage for you.

Max Power1

Don't do it
PPP are way more expensive.

Utilities are tenant's responsibility so the LL cant just do that.

D3PO

the LL cant make you change supplier. Your contract for utilities is with the utility company and not the landlord. Tell him in no uncertain terms no.

LowKeyReturn

annie.t wrote: »

Hi
I live in rented apartment. Last week all tenants in our apartment complex got letters from letting agency stating that landlord had decided to switch electricity supplier to prepaypower.ie and from now on it is going to be in landlords name. We were given a week to submit a form where we agree to T&C and give them our details to close account with current provider.

So what happens if you don't? Just don;t submit the form and when they phone you tell them you're speaking the threshold about going to the PRTB and the PRTB will be back to them in a year or so.

keith16

MYOB wrote: »

PPP are the dearest provider on the market also, so you definitely don't want to change there.

I can see why the landlord wants to - it'll ensure that nobody runs away without paying as its a prepayment meter - but there is zero advantage for you.

I'm not sure about this. Don't ESB charge a deposit of something like 300 quid in the event of something like this happening?

Mrs OBumble

keith16 wrote: »

I'm not sure about this. Don't ESB charge a deposit of something like 300 quid in the event of something like this happening?

Yes, or you have to pay by direct-debit.

keith16

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, or you have to pay by direct-debit.

Well there goes that argument then, how the landlord can impose this is beyond me.

Don't sign the form OP.

ted1

tell him to take a hike. they are the dearest in the market. if they insist as for a reduction in rent, to comepnaste for the dearer electricity.

as for "from now on it is going to be in landlords name"

thats nosense as its a prepay meter so its not really in his name.

djimi

Id love to know what he plans on doing if you dont sign the form and agree to this...

L1011

keith16 wrote: »

I'm not sure about this. Don't ESB charge a deposit of something like 300 quid in the event of something like this happening?

Go direct debit and there's no deposit, ensure account has no money in it, "free" power for a few months and a headache for the landlord albeit not something their actually liable for.

The deposit is required for owner occupiers who want to pay per bill also.

PhilMcGee

Im in the process of moving all of my properties to pre-pay. From a landlord point of view its a great idea. The provider are actually calling agents and have a dedicated person selling the switch to them. I think most landlords will be doing this in the near future.

According to my provider I dont actually have to get the tenants permission at all, but I do anyway for the sake of harmony. If a tenant doesnt want to switch then i've instructed the agent to wait til they leave and then switch it over before the next one moves in, but if I wanted I could just switch it.
Like not accepting RA, if a potential new tenant has a problem with it they are free not to look elsewhere. Utility bills are one of the biggest headaches if you get a problem tenant. Eliminating those is very much a step in the right direction.

http://www.prepaypower.ie/landlords

L1011

PhilMcGee wrote: »

According to my provider I dont actually have to get the tenants permission at all

This screams of salesman bull**** rather than actually having any bearing in law.

gordongekko

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Im in the process of moving all of my properties to pre-pay. From a landlord point of view its a great idea. The provider are actually calling agents and have a dedicated person selling the switch to them. I think most landlords will be doing this in the near future.

According to my provider I dont actually have to get the tenants permission at all, but I do anyway for the sake of harmony. If a tenant doesnt want to switch then i've instructed the agent to wait til they leave and then switch it over before the next one moves in, but if I wanted I could just switch it.
Like not accepting RA, if a potential new tenant has a problem with it they are free not to look elsewhere. Utility bills are one of the biggest headaches if you get a problem tenant. Eliminating those is very much a step in the right direction.

http://www.prepaypower.ie/landlords

I just change the bill into the tenants name. I have never had any headaches with this. Its quiet a simple procedure and just change it again when they move out.

PhilMcGee

MYOB wrote: »

This screams of salesman bull**** rather than actually having any bearing in law.

And your basis for this is .... ?

PhilMcGee

gordongekko wrote: »

I just change the bill into the tenants name. I have never had any headaches with this. Its quiet a simple procedure and just change it again when they move out.

90% of the time there are no headaches, but by god wait til you get one. It will be the migraine to end them all. Power companies are second only to telcos for inducing headaches when trying to be reasonable with them.

L1011

PhilMcGee wrote: »

And your basis for this is .... ?

How do they intend to release third parties from possible contracts with other suppliers, for starters.

gordongekko

PhilMcGee wrote: »

90% of the time there are no headaches, but by god wait til you get one. It will be the migraine to end them all. Power companies are second only to telcos for inducing headaches when trying to be reasonable with them.

like what? It would be useful to know what to look out for.

djimi

PhilMcGee wrote: »

According to my provider I dont actually have to get the tenants permission at all, but I do anyway for the sake of harmony. If a tenant doesnt want to switch then i've instructed the agent to wait til they leave and then switch it over before the next one moves in, but if I wanted I could just switch it.

Id love to see a legal interpretation of this, because I dont believe for a second that a landlord has the ability to change any utility provider on their tenant at any point during the tenany.

keith16

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Im in the process of moving all of my properties to pre-pay. From a landlord point of view its a great idea. The provider are actually calling agents and have a dedicated person selling the switch to them. I think most landlords will be doing this in the near future.



http://www.prepaypower.ie/landlords

You have absolutely no right to impose this on anyone. If tenants are such a headache, then perhaps you are in the wrong business? Or maybe you need to look at hiring a different agent?

annie.t

Thanks for replies. Very helpful. I'm not going to agree to this.
Although i have a feeling they will do it anyway when the time comes to renew my lease

3DataModem

gordongekko wrote: »

I just change the bill into the tenants name. I have never had any headaches with this. Its quiet a simple procedure and just change it again when they move out.

Exactly. Debt is between tenant and supplier. Not surprised they want landlords to switch x

PhilMcGee

djimi wrote: »

Id love to see a legal interpretation of this, because I dont believe for a second that a landlord has the ability to change any utility provider on their tenant at any point during the tenany.

There cant be any contract between tenant and provider in my properties as I dont allow them to switch provider anyway. Its in the lease. Got stuck between a tenant moving out and them trying to switch provider before and it was a nightmare to sort out. Airtricity said the tenant was with them for a period and i had to stick with them. My solicitor sent a letter and they argued for a while but in the end they had to give in as they had no right to enter into any contract with someone who doesnt own the property. Doesnt stop them making such contracts, but they cant hold anybody to it, so they are worth nothing.

I dont really care what detail is tbh as long as it is all above board and legal. But im going to take the companies word for it rather than the internets. Im sure the utility providers have something worked out between them for transferring. I dont need the detail. For all I know there is a switch and it just takes place at a certain time or whatever. I'll leave the detail to them. The only result im after is that the electricity becomes prepaid.

Im waiting til the tenants move out, but i dont have to at all if i didnt want to.

PhilMcGee

gordongekko wrote: »

like what? It would be useful to know what to look out for.

Just search boards and askaboutmoney and you will find so many issues with landlords and electricity that you will cry.

PhilMcGee

annie.t wrote: »

Thanks for replies. Very helpful. I'm not going to agree to this.
Although i have a feeling they will do it anyway when the time comes to renew my lease

Why dont you just ask them can you stay with your current provider until you move out. They might be happy enough with that.

keith16

PhilMcGee wrote: »

I dont really care what detail is tbh as long as it is all above board and legal. But im going to take the companies word for it rather than the internets. Im sure the utility providers have something worked out between them for transferring. I dont need the detail. For all I know there is a switch and it just takes place at a certain time or whatever. I'll leave the detail to them. The only result im after is that the electricity becomes prepaid.

Im waiting til the tenants move out, but i dont have to at all if i didnt want to.

Well good for you. Any decent, self-respecting prospective tenants won't go near your property. Prepare to have a lot more "problem" tenants.

djimi

PhilMcGee wrote: »

There cant be any contract between tenant and provider in my properties as I dont allow them to switch provider anyway. Its in the lease. Got stuck between a tenant moving out and them trying to switch provider before and it was a nightmare to sort out. Airtricity said the tenant was with them for a period and i had to stick with them. My solicitor sent a letter and they argued for a while but in the end they had to give in as they had no right to enter into any contract with someone who doesnt own the property. Doesnt stop them making such contracts, but they cant hold anybody to it, so they are worth nothing.

I dont really care what detail is tbh as long as it is all above board and legal. But im going to take the companies word for it rather than the internets. Im sure the utility providers have something worked out between them for transferring. I dont need the detail. For all I know there is a switch and it just takes place at a certain time or whatever. I'll leave the detail to them. The only result im after is that the electricity becomes prepaid.

Im waiting til the tenants move out, but i dont have to at all if i didnt want to.

I would be very interested to see how any of that would hold up should a tenant actually challenge you on it.

Have you any links to back up any of the claims you make as to the legality of any of that?

PhilMcGee

keith16 wrote: »

Well good for you. Any decent, self-respecting prospective tenants won't go near your property. Prepare to have a lot more "problem" tenants.

And I dont pay my tax and you're going to report me and i'm racist and Im a money grabbing cnt.

I've heard it all before. Usually by some dumb idiot after they have been refused RA in an apartment even after they read in the ad that there was no RA accepted, but thought it was just in the ad for the laugh.

Look at you. Commenting on apartments and people you have never seen and dont even know, and likely never will know, like you are making some kind of genius inspired statement. Think about what that tells us all about how intelligent you are. Or maybe you are just psychic. That must be it.

wandatowell

PhilMcGee wrote: »

If a tenant doesnt want to switch then i've instructed the agent to wait til they leave and then switch it over before the next one moves in

Seems reasonable of you tbh

PhilMcGee

djimi wrote: »

I would be very interested to see how any of that would hold up should a tenant actually challenge you on it.

Have you any links to back up any of the claims you make as to the legality of any of that?

I dont go looking for links from the insurance company when I get my car insured. I just trust them that when they insure me and send me out the cert and take payment that they know what they are doing. Thats enough for me to do business with them.

Why would I have any links. Im not doing it. Im only relaying what the contact in the service provider told me. I will just assume that he is an expert on his business. Funny that usually the people asking for links to back up something have even less to back up what they are trying to prove.

whiteandlight

I would never move into a property with prepay electricity and I would be pretty sure a lot of professionals would have a similar view. It is expensive and would give me a very dim view of a landlord who enforce it on tenants

keith16

PhilMcGee wrote: »

And I dont pay my tax and you're going to report me and i'm racist and Im a money grabbing cnt.

Really? Wow, get it all out why don't you?

PhilMcGee wrote: »

I've heard it all before. Usually by some dumb idiot after they have been refused RA in an apartment even after they read in the ad that there was no RA accepted, but thought it was just in the ad for the laugh.

This says more about you than anyone else tbh.

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Look at you. Commenting on apartments and people you have never seen and dont even know, and likely never will know, like you are making some kind of genius inspired statement. Think about what that tells us all about how intelligent you are. Or maybe you are just psychic. That must be it.

No psychic-ness or intelligence required. Just common sense really.

Regardless, I don't think anyone is in any doubt as to whose level of intelligence is being exposed here.

PhilMcGee

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I would never move into a property with prepay electricity and I would be pretty sure a lot of professionals would have a similar view. It is expensive and would give me a very dim view of a landlord who enforce it on tenants

Fortunately there is a healthy market and no shortage of the next tenant. But if the market wasnt healthy, as has happened in the past then landlords might have to worry about losing potential tenants. But for now, I think you might find most landlords will be going pre-paid and you really will only be limiting your options instead of theirs. If there is a good period between now and the next downturn then i think all providers will have pre-pay and it will be standard in rentals.

L1011

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Im only relaying what the contact in the service provider told me. I will just assume that he is an expert on his business.

You're assuming a salesman in an energy firm knows what he's talking about?

Excuse me while I collapse laughing on the floor.

PhilMcGee

keith16 wrote: »

Regardless, I don't think anyone is in any doubt as to whose level of intelligence is being exposed here.

Except you. But sure you cant help it I'm sure.

djimi

PhilMcGee wrote: »

I dont go looking for links from the insurance company when I get my car insured. I just trust them that when they insure me and send me out the cert and take payment that they know what they are doing. Thats enough for me to do business with them.

Why would I have any links. Im not doing it. Im only relaying what the contact in the service provider told me. I will just assume that he is an expert on his business. Funny that usually the people asking for links to back up something have even less to back up what they are trying to prove.

Ignorance is not a defence when someone takes a case against you. You have stated several things as fact:

- that you as landlord are free to impose a provider on a tenant against their wishes,

- that you can write a clause into a lease to prevent a tenant from choosing their own utility provider

and Im interested to know if you can back either of those up with anything more concrete than the word of a salesman belonging to an electric company? If I were your tenant and you tried to force prepaid electricty upon my against my wishes then I would be taking a case against you. The PRTB wont give a toss who told you what; they only deal in legal fact, so can you show me anything that backs up what you are claiming to be true?

PhilMcGee

MYOB wrote: »

You're assuming a salesman in an energy firm knows what he's talking about?

Excuse me while I collapse laughing on the floor.

You are just assuming someone you havent spoken to is lying. You have no basis for that. As I have no basis for assuming he is telling the truth.

But as in all my dealings with any company, Im assuming someone in a company tasked with switching and helping customers knows more about what he is talking about than I or the internet in general do.
There is always a point with every company where you have to trust that they are experts. At least more experts than you are.

You can argue with them if you want and ask them for proof, but i dont really want to waste my time digging into mountains of paper and will trust them.
I also take a solicitors word for it when I ask for advice and help too. I dont go assuming they are lying.

L1011

PhilMcGee wrote: »

You are just assuming someone you havent spoken to is lying. You have no basis for that. As I have no basis for assuming he is telling the truth.

But as in all my dealings with any company, Im assuming someone in a company tasked with switching and helping customers knows more about what he is talking about than I or the internet in general do.
There is always a point with every company where you have to trust that they are experts. At least more experts than you are.

You can argue with them if you want and ask them for proof, but i dont really want to waste my time digging into mountains of paper and will trust them.
I also take a solicitors word for it when I ask for advice and help too. I dont go assuming they are lying.

Something tells me you may have to contact your solicitor fairly shortly. "I trusted the man on the phone" does not absolve you of any legal responsibility.

Energy firm sales staff are generally paid commission-only or as damn near to it as they can legally get, and receive minimal training.

djimi

PhilMcGee wrote: »

But as in all my dealings with any company, Im assuming someone in a company tasked with switching and helping customers knows more about what he is talking about than I or the internet in general do.
There is always a point with every company where you have to trust that they are experts. At least more experts than you are.

If you truely believe this then you are extremely foolish. Salesmen will tell you absolutely anything to secure a sale. I had a bloke from a well known mobile company sit at a desk in front of me and tell me several barefaced lies in an effort to get me to sign up to his service, and when I called him up on it he just kept digging futher and futher.

drumswan

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Fortunately there is a healthy market and no shortage of the next tenant. But if the market wasnt healthy, as has happened in the past then landlords might have to worry about losing potential tenants. But for now, I think you might find most landlords will be going pre-paid and you really will only be limiting your options instead of theirs.

As a professional, renting by choice at the high end of the market, with a list of rent references as long as your arm, I think Id be happy to 'limit my choice' to those places which 'allow' me to chose my own service providers, thanks all the same.

Youd be better off targeting students, newly arrived immigrants and other people who dont understand the rental market here.

PhilMcGee

djimi wrote: »

Ignorance is not a defence when someone takes a case against you. You have stated several things as fact:

- that you as landlord are free to impose a provider on a tenant against their wishes,

- that you can write a clause into a lease to prevent a tenant from choosing their own utility provider

and Im interested to know if you can back either of those up with anything more concrete than the word of a salesman belonging to an electric company? If I were your tenant and you tried to force prepaid electricty upon my against my wishes then I would be taking a case against you. The PRTB wont give a toss who told you what; they only deal in legal fact, so can you show me anything that backs up what you are claiming to be true?

Nobody has taken any case. And nobody is taking any case. So your imaginary case is just that .. imaginary.

I dont need to prove anything to you. And I dont feel like wasting my time finding out stuff for you that you want to know and not me. Do your own research.
Its not an arguement. Im not asking you to believe anyting I say. Im telling you what I know, which may be wrong or not, but i am happy that its correct. You can choose to believe me or not, or if you feel like wasting your own time go off and dig around and see if you can come up with laws,or whatever is behind it. I am happy with what I have been told by a service provider and by my agent. I am also happy with anything my solicitor tells me I can write into a lease.

So if you find out anything that i;ve said is untrue please post it back as it would be useful info for me.

keith16

PhilMcGee wrote: »

You are just assuming someone you havent spoken to is lying. You have no basis for that. As I have no basis for assuming he is telling the truth.

But as in all my dealings with any company, Im assuming someone in a company tasked with switching and helping customers knows more about what he is talking about than I or the internet in general do.
There is always a point with every company where you have to trust that they are experts. At least more experts than you are.

You can argue with them if you want and ask them for proof, but i dont really want to waste my time digging into mountains of paper and will trust them.
I also take a solicitors word for it when I ask for advice and help too. I dont go assuming they are lying.

This is absolutely laughable. Blame the bankers and government for the way the country is all you like, but this type of absolutely staggering, willful ignorance is also major contributing factor.

PhilMcGee

drumswan wrote: »

As a professional, renting by choice at the high end of the market, with a list of rent references as long as your arm, I think Id be happy to 'limit my choice' to those places which 'allow' me to chose my own service providers, thanks all the same.

Youd be better off targeting students, newly arrived immigrants and other people who dont understand the rental market here.

the next good tenant is behind you.
And you would be entitled to move on if anything didnt suit you. And the loss of you as a tenant doesnt hurt the landlord as much as you would like to think. You are not the only one looking at a property, just as that property is not the only property you are looking at.
So everyone is happy with your decision to move on.

PhilMcGee

keith16 wrote: »

This is absolutely laughable. Blame the bankers and government for the way the country is all you like, but this type of absolutely staggering, willful ignorance is also major contributing factor.

Do you mind me asking. How old are you?

keith16

PhilMcGee wrote: »

So if you find out anything that i;ve said is untrue please post it back as it would be useful info for me.

As per your own advice:

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Do your own research.

PhilMcGee wrote: »

the next good tenant is behind you.

If there are so many "good tenants", then why do you need to do this? Or why do you have so many problem tenants and issues with utilities that "make you cry"?

gordongekko

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Just search boards and askaboutmoney and you will find so many issues with landlords and electricity that you will cry.

I have changed names over 100 times without issue. You stated that 90% of the time its fine and that you have had loads of problems. Law of averages would suggest im in for a horrible run so I would like to know your problems so I can try and avoid them.

djimi

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Nobody has taken any case. And nobody is taking any case. So your imaginary case is just that .. imaginary.

I dont need to prove anything to you. And I dont feel like wasting my time finding out stuff for you that you want to know and not me. Do your own research.
Its not an arguement. Im not asking you to believe anyting I say. Im telling you what I know, which may be wrong or not, but i am happy that its correct. You can choose to believe me or not, or if you feel like wasting your own time go off and dig around and see if you can come up with laws,or whatever is behind it. I am happy with what I have been told by a service provider and by my agent. I am also happy with anything my solicitor tells me I can write into a lease.

So if you find out anything that i;ve said is untrue please post it back as it would be useful info for me.

If you are going to come on here and state something as fact, then you have to be prepared to back up those statements. "Some salesman in the electric company told me" really doesnt cut it Im afraid.

Personally I dont really care either way; I asked for the links out of interest because I dont believe what you have been told is correct. On your head be it if you cross the wrong tenant and end up having to actually answer for your actions and beliefs. Im of the opinion that in business you never act without knowing, without question, where you stand on the matter, but each to their own I guess.

Just to be clear, Im not actually saying that you are wrong, because I dont know the situation myself (hence me asking for links to show some substanace to what you have claimed). If you are correct in what you say then more power to you, but I would want to hear more than the word of a utility salesman and a rental agent before I would believe it.

drumswan

PhilMcGee wrote: »

the next good tenant is behind you.
And you would be entitled to move on if anything didnt suit you. And the loss of you as a tenant doesnt hurt the landlord as much as you would like to think. You are not the only one looking at a property, just as that property is not the only property you are looking at.
So everyone is happy with your decision to move on.

Im lucky enough that both my current and previous landlord in Ireland have been the height of professionalism and nonsense like this would never arise. My other tenancies have been abroad where this would never arise.

If Id read a clause in the lease limiting my choice of service providers Id have run a mile like I did with half a dozen other gombeen gob****es I spoke with before securing my current rental.

I pay a landlord well into five figures a year for a professional service, theres simply no way I'd tolerate a landlord with the level of professionalism which allows some spotty, commission paid, untrained oik in a call centre direct how he runs his business. Frankly Id be embarrassed if I were you.

PhilMcGee

This thread is turning into a bit of a landlord against tenant thing.
There are imaginary cases and law suits and the most important high end tenant tenants causing landlords to go out of business because they are worried about a few euro all of a sudden.

I should have know they all end up like this.
You can see where its going.

Everyone is going to sue their landlord and everyone is going to not rent his apartment so he can go out of business.

Its getting like the Im 6ft 4 and built so nobody will ever look sideways at me because im so tough threads. But really we all know nobody has been sued. Nobody has been beaten up. Nobody has a property sitting empty because the electricity meter is prepaid. Its all just internet bluster. So I will hand the thread back to you now. I just tried to tell you what ive been told. take it or leave it. bye bye.