Neighbours Kid is a Bully

UnluckyLad

Just looking for some advice,

We have a 4 year old, he plays in our estate with all the other kids, oldest 7 to youngest 3.
One of the kids 6 is a right bully, he splits, swears and hits almost every child. Recently he has taken a disliking to our 4 year old son.
It start off by trying to exclude him for games, then I would catch him checking to see if his parents were looking then he would hit him, and turn around and say “mom he hit me” blaming our son. If my son get a toy he gets his parents to by him a bigger better one. It’s quite sad as his parent have told us his hard to manage.
Anyway he’s been extra bad in the last week, staring down our boy and sticking his head into him. But yesterday I brought my son outside to play and I turn my back for a second and the bully just ran straight into him on his bike sending him onto the ground. I immediate ran over and ask him why he did it, he ran off crying to his house.

So this morning my wife went to his mother told her son has been extra nasty to our boy, she didn’t want to hear any of it and turned saying our son was rough and started everything. This turned into an 8:30am shouting match, and ending with our neighbor using the line, “if your husband gives out to my child again, my husband will kick his F***ing head in”, I laughed when she told me.

This isn’t the first or second row she’s had with parents over the bully, but the rose tinted glasses are well and truly un-removable.

I know if I call up to speak to the husband it will turn to violence as I won’t back down if I’m threatened.

Any advice, much appreciated.

dobman88

Its a tough one if the parents are that pig headed. The anti-bully in me wants your son to fight back and defend himself but the proper way would be to teach your son that this anti-social bully behaviour is totally unacceptable. Your son is only 4 so a bit young for self defence classes and the like. I know you cant watch him every minute he is outside but maybe tell him to stick to a particular part of the estate and play with the other nice kids to stay away from this horrible bully. When I was a kid my friends and I stuck together every day so if the bully sees this 2 things might happen.

1. He might stay away from your boy and the other kids cos there are more of them.
2. He might think he is missing out on the fun and start to play nicely.

Either way the parents behaviour is shocking (if that is really how they reacted to your wife)

UnluckyLad

Cheers Mate,

Sounds like good advice, I am starting my son in self defence in the next month, in fairness my son does stand up to him, which is what you want to see. I don’t what to wrap him in cotton wool.

Yeah they actually spoke to her like that, and we are friends with this people, we got on better with them than anyone else in our estate. My missus is really upset over it, I just find it laughable that people still go on like that, but I can now see where the young lads behaviour comes from.

dobman88

Yeah the bully is only 6 so he cant take all the blame. Self defence classes will be good for your son, it will also teach him discipline and respect. Just make sure you continue to teach your son that bullying, swearing, spitting, hitting are all wrong but he has to stand up for himself too. Tricky telling afour year old to not hit/bully someone but then to tell him to stand up to this kid. You sound like you arer doing a good job of it so far. Like you said dont wrap him in cotton wool, let him figure out some things himself but he should turn out fine if you teach him the right things.

ted1

Try to get the kids to play at your house and don't allow the other kid in or send him home the moment he steps out of line

D3PO

surely this is better in the parenting forum.

Why is your 4 year old out playing unsupervised anyway.

UnluckyLad

D3PO wrote: »

surely this is better in the parenting forum.

Why is your 4 year old out playing unsupervised anyway.

He is never unsupervised outside the house.

djimi

Maybe get some other parents involved to speak to his parents? You can't be the only one who sees this behavior happening.

Agreed, this is probably better posted in the parenting forum.

UnluckyLad

how do I move to the correct forum?

Citycap

djimi wrote: »

Maybe get some other parents involved to speak to his parents? You can't be the only one who sees this behavior happening.

Agreed, this is probably better posted in the parenting forum.

Sorry but can't agree with all this wishy washy talk to the neighbours stuff.
Direct action. When the opportunity arises have your son ready to give him a good dig. Keep repeating until lesson is learnt. Teach him to stand up for himself. No one else will.

Lelantos

Chances are that the child's mother blew up because she felt pressurised & knows her son is difficult. Approach both parents, explain your concerns, state the facts, bike driven directly at child, maybe even have both children present at the latter stage of the discussion, if they can interact with all parents it may help, the root cause could be found. It may be a very simple fix.

djimi

Citycap wrote: »

Sorry but can't agree with all this wishy washy talk to the neighbours stuff.
Direct action. When the opportunity arises have your son ready to give him a good dig. Keep repeating until lesson is learnt. Teach him to stand up for himself. No one else will.

Well I was going to suggest that the next time something happens the OP go out and scream the head off the little **** and hopefully scare the life out of him so he doesnt do it again, but I decided to go with a somewhat more diplomatic approach that perhaps might serve to show the parents the problem that exists with their child so that they can sort it properly, rather than coming up with a short term fix that only might make matters worse, or at the very least would probably see this kid move on to bullying someone else.

UnluckyLad

I did let roar at him when he knocked over my son, but according to his mother is i say anything to him again i'll get me head kicked in. So I am tempted to let a shout at him if he does something again to see if his father has the bals to start something.

UnluckyLad

my wife did apporach them as we are friends with them, but his mother didn't want to hear it. She blamed our son, and refused to even listen she just try to turn it back on us.

The_Conductor

Moved from Accommodation and property forum.

Kind regards

S.

Devi

UnluckyLad wrote: »

I did let roar at him when he knocked over my son, but according to his mother is i say anything to him again i'll get me head kicked in. So I am tempted to let a shout at him if he does something again to see if his father has the bals to start something.

This what I would do. Call their bluff or you'll be the one bullied next. The time for diplomacy ended when she threatened you.

CrazyRabbit

UnluckyLad wrote: »

He is never unsupervised outside the house.

Record the bully's behaviour towards your son on camera then.
If the parents of the boy fail to take this serious, report them to Social Services.

Tombo2001

I'd do a couple of things here.....

Probably the main thing I'd do is gather around all the parents of all the other kids and discuss it.

If its the case that he is bullying all the other kids, then they should know where you are coming from. I dont know what the outcome would be, but a consensus approach supported by all the neighbours will carry more weight.

If your neighbours are threatening you, I would consider getting the Gardai involved. I'd sooner do that than getting in a situation where you are actually in a physical situation.

Possibly, I would try chatting to the kid, explain to him that the smaller boys are scared of him, try to make him feel guilty about it......

............

Seperately, are people seriously suggesting a four year old take self defence classes? What would this entail? Karate? I'd have thought it was a bit young to be starting that type of thing.

Tombo2001

D3PO wrote: »

Why is your 4 year old out playing unsupervised anyway.

I'd have thought this comment a bit smart ass and unnecessary. You are making a direct implication there that his parenting is not up to scratch, which I consider a bit low.

gramar

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Record the bully's behaviour towards your son on camera then.
If the parents of the boy fail to take this serious, report them to Social Services.

Is it legal to record someone on camera like that? It could lead to a whole load of accusations of filming minors without consent etc and make a bad problem worse.

It's a pity that a bit of dialogue can't sort it out. If the mother's threats are anything to go by it's fairly obvious where he gets his behaviour from.
Still though I would have thought that self-defence classes for a 4 year old is a bit extreme. If he can stand up for himself as it is and knows he has the support of his parents that would surely be enough.

wandatowell

If I was you I would be keeping a log in a journal of every single incident that has happened and keep logging everything that happens. Every conversation ye have or had with this couple, write everything down.

Tbh from what I read this kid is obviously picking up his behaviour from his parents.

Also pop in the local garda station for a chat. Ask for some advice about being threatened and I would also go into the school and make enquiries.


have you thought about approaching other parents in the area?

Frank Black

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'd do a couple of things here.....

Probably the main thing I'd do is gather around all the parents of all the other kids and discuss it.

Yes, let's gather everyone around because a 6 year old has pushed a 4 year old a few times.

What a load of jumped-up'd, over-the-top ****e.

Tombo2001

Frank Black wrote: »

Yes, let's gather everyone around because a 6 year old has pushed a 4 year old a few times.

What a load of jumped-up'd, over-the-top ****e.

Are you saying bullying isnt a big deal?

If you are, then you are wrong.

If you are not, then what are you talking about?

The OP is clearly about bullying, and that is what we are discussing.

Frank Black

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Are you saying bullying isnt a big deal?

If you are, then you are wrong.

If you are not, then what are you talking about?

The OP is clearly about bullying, and that is what we are discussing.

I'm saying that organising a meeting with all the parents of all the other children over these incidents is completely over-the-top.

Isn't that clear from my post or are your powers of comprehension or reading abilty somewhat limited?

Tombo2001

Frank Black wrote: »

I'm saying that organising a meeting with all the parents of all the other children over these incidents is completely over-the-top.

Isn't that clear from my post or are your powers of comprehension or reading abilty somewhat limited?

OK, then we disagree.

Goodbye and good luck.

Corkbah

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Are you saying bullying isnt a big deal?

If you are, then you are wrong.

If you are not, then what are you talking about?

The OP is clearly about bullying, and that is what we are discussing.

Q: when does "boys being boys" become bullying ?

A: When my son is the one at the receiving end

OP .... why not just tell your son to avoid this other child as he obviously has issues which the parents are not willing to get involved to try to fix.

OP ...if you really wanted to be petty ... buy your own child loads of new gifts ...you have said the other family are struggling but their child always gets bigger and better versions of whatever you purchase....concentrate on your own child.

Tombo2001

Corkbah wrote: »

Q: when does "boys being boys" become bullying ?

A: When my son is the one at the receiving end

OP .... why not just tell your son to avoid this other child as he obviously has issues which the parents are not willing to get involved to try to fix.

.

The OP has called this bullying.

Why are you making a judgement that its not?

Or are you?

Bullying is a serious topic and should be treated seriously. The OP has described the activity in question. If you dont think this bullying, please say why.

As for your suggestion......really.......you think you can tell a four year old playing on a green with five other kids to 'avoid' one of the kids.......?

I wish life were that simple.

Corkbah

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The OP has called this bullying.

Why are you making a judgement that its not?

Or are you?

Bullying is a serious topic and should be treated seriously. The OP has described the activity in question. If you dont think this bullying, please say why.

As for your suggestion......really.......you think you can tell a four year old playing on a green with five other kids to 'avoid' one of the kids.......?

I wish life were that simple.

I'm not making a judgement on either side.

As a person who was bullied in school I'm well aware of how serious bullying is .... I tried to commit suicide as a result of bullying in school.

we do not know if this is bullying or if the other child is going through personal problems and taking it out on the OP's child.

the best method would be to avoid the child.... no point in inviting confrontation.

neverfindaname

Probably not the answer that 'should' be given. My son who's 16 now, very similar but the bully was younger than him. My son was too quiet then, and didn't really know how to stand up for himself, probably kept him under wraps too much. But every second day there used to be some issue, and the bully's mother would ring me! I used to write everything down, and investigate every story myself and every single time (bar one) my son was always right. For eg's, the bully said after scoring a goal in soccer, and pulled his jersey over his head to celebrate the goal, my son tripped him and kicked him in the back...my son was a back, as was this guy, so they weren't even close to each other. Anyways, after 2 years of me writing stuff done, and my son getting braver, I always told him "Bide your time/keep you mouth closed/walk away" he never reacted, but one time he did. The bully was taunting him as usual, and my son answered back. It went from a few words, to the bully swinging for him. I shouldn't be, but I was silently proud....he gave him a good few thumps, and sent the bully home crying. The mother got the gardai involved (14 year old versus a 12 year old) and while I smugly sat waiting for the Gardai, when they arrived I showed them my lever arch of 2 years of hassle, where my son never opened his mouth or retaliated......Gardai walked away and had words with her......that victory was the best silent win every!!
My advise to you....rose tinted glasses are on everyone's head, especially with their kids...start to write things down, you never know when you might need it. Teach your son manners, and to behave, and you (he'll) be fine..... and try not to socialise close to your home cos with a few beers in you, and meeting that family, it could only escalate. Best of luck

Tombo2001

Corkbah wrote: »

we do not know if this is bullying or if the other child is going through personal problems and taking it out on the OP's child.

.

Why cant it be both.

To be honest, the kid I feel most sympathy for here is the bully, precisely because you'd worry about whats going on behind closed doors.

The reason I suggested bringing all the parents together is that otherwise, it becomes a 'feud' between OP and the neighbour. it becomes a personal thing then. Unless OP chooses to solve the problem as you say by complete avoidance. But that means essentially keeping his kid inside while the bully is out playing. What sort of message does that send out to his kid?

If they all come together, then you dont have that personal feud thing developing.

conor2469

OP, it is clear from your post that the mother of this child is a complete fool. But what is the husband like? I know that she threatened to get her husband to kick the **** out of you, but was that just shytalk? Maybe he is more level headed and would be worth having a chat to?

Lelantos

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'd have thought this comment a bit smart ass and unnecessary. You are making a direct implication there that his parenting is not up to scratch, which I consider a bit low.

Funnily enough, the OP is stating that the 6yo's parenting isn't up to scratch...I wonder why you didn't find that a bit low

Citycap

Have you a nephew about 10 years of age who could come over and act the heavy with the 6 year old?

Pass the Sauce love

OP, my mate is having similiar problems.

Family of 5 kids from 9-18/19. Youngest is apparently twice the size of anyone the same age. The older brothers and their friends who are over 16, I believe, have been heard egging on the kid to hit my mates kid.

Mate confronted parent in their garden after latest episode and there was apparently 10-15 people in the bullys garden ranging from a couple of young kids, lots of teenagers and a few adults. All proclaiming that my mates kids is worse, etc. Now my mates kid has a mouth on them, and will say whats on their mind, but doesnt stand a chance when it comes to physical match with this bully.

My mate has a large diary of what has been happening and even has video evidence of the bully hitting his kid when unprovoked. He also has details of what neighbours have seen/heard. The family are apparently renting in the estate for the last year or so, so my mate would know the other neighbours better as he has been living there 10+ years.

He's made a complaint to the PRTB as have other neighbours, so there's hope the family will be turfed out soon. Unfortunately, that cant come quick enough. The bully has also been heard on nearly a daily basis, telling other kids not to play with my mates kids which is horrible for any 9 year old to be dealing with, especially during the school holidays. Mates kid also has to pass by the bullys house to go anywhere bar his own front garden as they live in a cul de sac.

Mate is going to guards the next time with the diaried evidence. Unfortunately, this family has a notorious name around the town and are the type to get violent on the sly. he doesnt want a war, but if his kids safety is at risk, then he will do whatever it takes to protect them.

December2012

If you're in North County Dublin there are kids self defence and anti bullying classes in Donabate - I think they're called KidzKombat.ie.

Classes start from age 4.

Ill be sending mine next year.