Clamping - Car clamped with a disabled badge

Luca T

Hi Guys,

First time poster however Ive been reading this section on and off for the last couple of years. Love your work.

A quick question without opening up the whole legal debate on clamping again.

I was bringing my granny to the doctors this morning and as per usual we had her disabled badge in the front of the car. Her doctors is on the southside of the city centre (close enough to stephens green) and the usual Disabled space that we park in was unavailable.

So no big deal we parked in the next available spot (which usually is fine) however when we returned to the car there was a NCPS clamp on it. I had looked at the signs and it was one of those "permit display only" parking. I called them up obviously furious and explained to them the exact same situation that I had just explained now.

I got through to a young lady (who in fairness did her best) and called the clamper who clamped me. He said although I had a disabled permit I did not have a permit displayed for that area. I again explained that the disabled spot was taken so I took the next available spot. She still insisted that there was nothing that she could do and I would have to pay the fine then lodge an appeal.

I then asked to speak to her supervisor (who I eventually found out was not a supervisor at all but a "senior service agent") now this guy really p*ssed me off. He was clearly brainless and even having explained the situation he kept repeating "you will have to pay the release fee sir" no matter what question I asked him.

After 5 minutes with him I asked to be transfered to a real manager to which he replied there was no one in the office.

Is there anything I can do or anywhere else I can phone to get this resolved today?

I would just pay the fine at this stage and walk away but I genuinely dont have the €120 to fork out.

P.S. If there is anyone around the city centre today that may or may not have a bolt cutters or angle grinders I would appreciate a lend for a completely different matter altogether!! (there is a 6 pack of cans in it for you!!)

MugMugs

Interesting situation.

As somebody who is actually against clamping I can't see why somebody with a disabled badge shouldn't have to pay and display.

The space is given for convenience, you should still have to pay to use the car park if that is the method in place.

boldspirit

if you get your hands on a lump hammer you could hit the part where the chain is attached to the clamp the weld will break easily enough. (tyre iron could work as well)

Anan1

You must have been on private land if it was an NCPS clamp? To the best of my knowledge, the blue badge has no legal standing in a private car park?

Toyotafanboi

i never really read these clamping threads.

BUT

so you parked in a permit only area with no permit?

surely the disabled permit only covers you to park in disability spaces?*

*don't know too much on the topic. i could be very wrong.

Anan1

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i never really read these clamping threads.

BUT

so you parked in a permit only area with no permit?

surely the disabled permit only covers you to park in disability spaces?*

*don't know too much on the topic. i could be very wrong.

I think it covers parking in on-street pay & display spaces too.

Luca T

Cheers Bold Spirit, I dont have any access to anything Im afraid. I have removed a couple of clamps in the past without any damage off the wishbone but I know how long/messy it is and I really need to get this aul one home!!

MugsMugs disabled permit holders do not have to pay for parking anywhere, this is because disabled spaces are reserved for disabled permit holders. Because the nearest disabled spot was taken and there was no other one available this was the closest available spot to the disabled zone.

ironclaw

MugMugs wrote: »

Interesting situation.

As somebody who is actually against clamping I can't see why somebody with a disabled badge shouldn't have to pay and display.

The space is given for convenience, you should still have to pay to use the car park if that is the method in place.

I'm truly against clamping and I personally would never dream of immobilizing a car showing a pass (So that gives you an idea of the mentality of clamper's :rolleyes:). However the pass itself does not give someone free reign to park where they wish and not pay & display. In this instance, the clampers followed procedure to the book but I suppose morally what they was wrong.

MugsMugs disabled permit holders do not have to pay for parking anywhere, this is because disabled spaces are reserved for disabled permit holders. Because the nearest disabled spot was taken and there was no other one available this was the closest available spot to the disabled zone.

I'm not sure that is correct.

Luca T

Anan1 wrote: »

I think it covers parking in on-street pay & display spaces too.

this is correct

The permit may be used by the disabled person in any vehicle in which they are travelling, either as a driver or as a passenger. People who have the EU Disabled Person’s Parking Permit displayed on their windscreen have certain parking concessions: They may park in assigned disabled person’s parking spaces. These have the wheelchair symbol painted on the ground within the bay or a sign with the symbol thereon displayed. In such spaces allocated by a Local Authorities and Public Bodies extend free parking and it is without a time limit. Where a disabled space is unavailable, a Local Authorities and Public Bodies extend parking of the vehicle transporting the holder in general parking, at parking meters and in disc parking areas without charge and without a time limit.

Anan1

Luca T wrote: »

this is correct

The permit may be used by the disabled person in any vehicle in which they are travelling, either as a driver or as a passenger. People who have the EU Disabled Person’s Parking Permit displayed on their windscreen have certain parking concessions: They may park in assigned disabled person’s parking spaces. These have the wheelchair symbol painted on the ground within the bay or a sign with the symbol thereon displayed. In such spaces allocated by a Local Authorities and Public Bodies extend free parking and it is without a time limit. Where a disabled space is unavailable, a Local Authorities and Public Bodies extend parking of the vehicle transporting the holder in general parking, at parking meters and in disc parking areas without charge and without a time limit.

But you parked in a privately owned space, where none of the above applies.

Luca T

Sorry about that Iron Claw I posted a reply without having seen your post, it sounded a bit sarcy.

Luca T

Ah I see so if I was parked on a road 5 meters away they couldn't clamp me, however because I was parked in an NCPS zone they can?

Anan1

Luca T wrote: »

Ah I see so if I was parked on a road 5 meters away they couldn't clamp me, however because I was parked in an NCPS zone they can?

Exactly. The blue badge entitles you to park in on-street bays without paying but not, for example, in someone's driveway.

Marcusm

Luca T wrote: »

this is correct

The permit may be used by the disabled person in any vehicle in which they are travelling, either as a driver or as a passenger. People who have the EU Disabled Person’s Parking Permit displayed on their windscreen have certain parking concessions: They may park in assigned disabled person’s parking spaces. These have the wheelchair symbol painted on the ground within the bay or a sign with the symbol thereon displayed. In such spaces allocated by a Local Authorities and Public Bodies extend free parking and it is without a time limit. Where a disabled space is unavailable, a Local Authorities and Public Bodies extend parking of the vehicle transporting the holder in general parking, at parking meters and in disc parking areas without charge and without a time limit.

That's all true but if it's an NCPS clamp then it can't be city council parking - they use APCOA not NCPS. Are you sure it isn't a private car park? If it is, I'd go look for the manager of the shopping centre or whatever and ask them to arrange a complimenetary declamp.

Luca T

I see, that makes sense in a way but still the space is literally 5 meters away from the disabled space. Absolutely horrendous morals but what do you expect from clampers!!

It probably is a private area where its parked, however it is in front of a boarded up block of flats. I dont think there would be a site manager etc. I could go to.

Toyotafanboi

i think you're fecked on this one so.

djimi

Luca T wrote: »

I see, that makes sense in a way but still the space is literally 5 meters away from the disabled space. Absolutely horrendous morals but what do you expect from clampers!!

It probably is a private area where its parked, however it is in front of a boarded up block of flats. I dont think there would be a site manager etc. I could go to.

If NCPS are patrolling it then it has to be owned by someone. Does the signage give any indication of who the owner might be?

Theres not much point complaining about morals; the clampers are there to look after the spaces assigned to them, and while it might seem unfair that they clamped you while you were displaying a disabled badge, the bottom line is that you shouldnt have been parked there (or at least you should have paid to park there). Its an unfortunate misunderstanding, but when it comes to the likes of NCPS everything is absolutely black and white.

Anan1

Luca T wrote: »

I see, that makes sense in a way but still the space is literally 5 meters away from the disabled space. Absolutely horrendous morals but what do you expect from clampers!!

Without meaning to sound harsh, somebody bought that space and found it necessary to employ clampers to keep it free for their own use. They didn't issue the blue badge, there's no onus on them to provide disabled parking, it's really nothing to do with them.

Luca T wrote: »

It probably is a private area where its parked, however it is in front of a boarded up block of flats. I dont think there would be a site manager etc. I could go to.

You'll probably find that the owner has let the spaces to some local company.

mitosis

Luca T wrote: »

I see, that makes sense in a way but still the space is literally 5 meters away from the disabled space. Absolutely horrendous morals but what do you expect from clampers!!

It probably is a private area where its parked, however it is in front of a boarded up block of flats. I dont think there would be a site manager etc. I could go to.

You have a permit to use a disabled space. It doesn't entitle you to park anywhere else, regardless of the unavailability of a designated disabled space. Nothing wrong with the clamper's morals, they did their job as instructed by the property owner.

Mousewar

Surely the owner is unlikely to be able to do anything anyway. NCPS will collect the release fee and once they put the clamp they aren't taking it off without being paid. So unless the owner feels the need to pay it on behalf of this guy then it's axle grinder or pay up.

Luca T

djimi wrote: »

If NCPS are patrolling it then it has to be owned by someone. Does the signage give any indication of who the owner might be?

Theres not much point complaining about morals; the clampers are there to look after the spaces assigned to them, and while it might seem unfair that they clamped you while you were displaying a disabled badge, the bottom line is that you shouldnt have been parked there (or at least you should have paid to park there). Its an unfortunate misunderstanding, but when it comes to the likes of NCPS everything is absolutely black and white.

Not too sure djimi, ill go out an have a look.

Im not really complaining tbh but in fairness although I was driving and the badge is for my granny you would have to be fairly ruthless to clamp someone with a disability when it is clearly shown on the windscreen.

Anan1 wrote: »

Without meaning to sound harsh, somebody bought that space and found it necessary to employ clampers to keep it free for their own use. They didn't issue the blue badge, there's no onus on them to provide disabled parking, it's really nothing to do with them.

You'll probably find that the owner has let the spaces to some local company.

I totally get it now, my mistake was not identifying between NCPS and regular county council parking.

mitosis wrote: »

You have a permit to use a disabled space. It doesn't entitle you to park anywhere else, regardless of the unavailability of a designated disabled space. Nothing wrong with the clamper's morals, they did their job as instructed by the property owner.

You must be a clamper mitosis...

FearDark

Just on the subject, has anyone managed to get clamps off their car and did they hear anything afterwards? I cut two off mine, one with a hacksaw (really) and one with a consaw, both times leaving the clamp on the side of the road and never heard one thing afterwards.

the_barfly1

plenty of high horses in here today. Taxi to the nearest hire place and back for that stihl grinder you need for this evening anyway. Two fingers to those rotten swines in ncps.

the_barfly1

FearDark wrote: »

Just on the subject, has anyone managed to get clamps off their car and did they hear anything afterwards? I cut two off mine, one with a hacksaw (really) and one with a consaw, both times leaving the clamp on the side of the road and never heard one thing afterwards.

sounds about right

Mousewar

FearDark wrote: »

Just on the subject, has anyone managed to get clamps off their car and did they hear anything afterwards? I cut two off mine, one with a hacksaw (really) and one with a consaw, both times leaving the clamp on the side of the road and never heard one thing afterwards.

I think the accepted wisdom is that if you do it to a council one, you'll end up in court. If you do a NCPS one, you've a good chance of hearing nothing more.

Anan1

Luca T wrote: »

Im not really complaining tbh but in fairness although I was driving and the badge is for my granny you would have to be fairly ruthless to clamp someone with a disability when it is clearly shown on the windscreen.

I think you're still missing the point that someone has paid for that space. They're not the State, it's just some guy (or girl) who needs to park their car and who doesn't owe you or your grandmother anything.

corktina

the point is as already said, someone feels the need to employ ncps to attempt to keep their own personal "permit holder only" spaces free. It's not different to objecting to someone parking in your front drive. You should pay up, you are in the wrong I feel OP

Anan1

the_barfly1 wrote: »

plenty of high horses in here today. Taxi to the nearest hire place and back for that stihl grinder you need for this evening anyway. Two fingers to those rotten swines in ncps.

You need to learn some respect for private property. Without attitudes like yours there'd be no need for clampers.

Luca T

Anan1 wrote: »

I think you're still missing the point that someone has paid for that space. They're not the State, it's just some guy (or girl) who needs to park their car and who doesn't owe you or your grandmother anything.

I'm not missing the point at all, I completely accept I was in the wrong. However there are about 8 free spaces behind me so its not like I am short changing someone and taking their space for the day. It was an oversight on my part and at least now I know the difference.

Unfortunately I am in work now so the chances of me getting a grinder are slim before 6pm and I doubt I will get one after that.

My offer of a bag of cans still stands to anyone who can drop past on their way through though !!!

josip

Where's granny now? Is she still in the doctor or sitting in the car? Will she get stressed by the clamp excitement? If so, maybe it's best to pay it and then appeal.

AugustusMinimus

OP, can you show us the parking space on google maps.

corktina

Luca T wrote: »

I'm not missing the point at all, I completely accept I was in the wrong. However there are about 8 free spaces behind me so its not like I am short changing someone and taking their space for the day. It was an oversight on my part and at least now I know the difference.

Unfortunately I am in work now so the chances of me getting a grinder are slim before 6pm and I doubt I will get one after that.

My offer of a bag of cans still stands to anyone who can drop past on their way through though !!!

you accept you are in the wrong but you are still trying to entice someone to commit criminal damage?:rolleyes:

Del2005

Luca T wrote: »

I'm not missing the point at all, I completely accept I was in the wrong. However there are about 8 free spaces behind me so its not like I am short changing someone and taking their space for the day. It was an oversight on my part and at least now I know the difference.

Unfortunately I am in work now so the chances of me getting a grinder are slim before 6pm and I doubt I will get one after that.

My offer of a bag of cans still stands to anyone who can drop past on their way through though !!!

So the permit isn't even valid anymore as your not transporting your granny. Would you have left the car parked all day in "your usual space" even though you weren't bringing her home?

mitosis

Luca T wrote: »

You must be a clamper mitosis...

Ah jaysus, that's just mean

Luca T

corktina wrote: »

you accept you are in the wrong but you are still trying to entice someone to commit criminal damage?:rolleyes:

Really? I never said anything of the sort? I needed the Grinder/Bolt cutters for something completely different. I cant get my lunchbox open.

Luca T

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

OP, can you show us the parking space on google maps.

Here you go chief,

Where the blue car is, is where my car is parked and where the white van is, is where the disabled spot is.

I hope this works now !!

Luca T

Del2005 wrote: »

So the permit isn't even valid anymore as your not transporting your granny. Would you have left the car parked all day in "your usual space" even though you weren't bringing her home?

Obviously not, I would have taken her home and parked in my own space. It was valid at the time because I was transporting her up until the clamp was put on.

the_barfly1

Anan1 wrote: »

You need to learn some respect for private property. Without attitudes like yours there'd be no need for clampers.

you need to learn not to lecture other people on right and wrong. Who made you sheriff?

Viper_JB

In fairness to the OP though, he's already said he cannot afford to pay and it doesn't benefit anyone to have a car clamped in their parking space all day...

Tallon

Luca T wrote: »

Here you go chief,

Where the blue car is, is where my car is parked and where the white van is, is where the disabled spot is.

I hope this works now !!

lol @ ya man texting while driving

AugustusMinimus

Luca T wrote: »

Here you go chief,

Where the blue car is, is where my car is parked and where the white van is, is where the disabled spot is.

I hope this works now !!

I'm unfamiliar with the area but where the blue car is could be private parking allocated to those living in the apartments.

If this is the case, you've parked on a private property and I can understand why you would have been clamped.

Are there any signs up there saying "Parking for residents only" or the sort ? Take a good look at the area. A lack of signage saying you cannot park there or that you are on private property may be a good argument to make with the clamping company.

Marcusm

Luca T wrote: »

Here you go chief,

Where the blue car is, is where my car is parked and where the white van is, is where the disabled spot is.

I hope this works now !!

Do you mean the spot within the Charlemont St flats or the spots clearly within the curtilege of the adjacent Georgian building? Neither would be available for general parking, both are fairly clearly private and not on street parking One might have been marked out as disabled but I imagine either for a resident, a worker or for visiting customers. On this occasion, I think you're gong to have to pony up €120 and certainly don't think about appealing. Anyone willing to cut a clamp off in that location would be highly visible.

Tallon

Here's the link http://goo.gl/maps/16MQF

OP, are you parked outside someones front door?

Marcusm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I'm unfamiliar with the area but where the blue car is could be private parking allocated to those living in the apartments.

y.

You're definitely unfamiliar - Charlemont Street flats, one of the unacknowledged rough spots of that part of the south side. It's where the general crucified one of his gang members by nailing him to the floor.

Luca T

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I'm unfamiliar with the area but where the blue car is could be private parking allocated to those living in the apartments.

If this is the case, you've parked on a private property and I can understand why you would have been clamped.

Are there any signs up there saying "Parking for residents only" or the sort ?

Those flats are boarded up now AM, I havent looked at the sign yet I will when I go around later on. All I know is that it is a NCPS space not a CC space so I presume its private

corktina

Marcusm wrote: »

Do you mean the spot within the Charlemont St flats or the spots clearly within the curtilege of the adjacent Georgian building? Neither would be available for general parking, both are fairly clearly private and not on street parking One might have been marked out as disabled but I imagine either for a resident, a worker or for visiting customers. On this occasion, I think you're gong to have to pony up €120 and certainly don't think about appealing. Anyone willing to cut a clamp off in that location would be highly visible.

yep I spy cameras

josip

They're the Tom Kelly flats, and the person you need to contact is the property developer, Sean Reilly.
(Edit: Who is unlikely to have access to i spy camera footage)

Luca T

Marcusm wrote: »

Do you mean the spot within the Charlemont St flats or the spots clearly within the curtilege of the adjacent Georgian building? Neither would be available for general parking, both are fairly clearly private and not on street parking One might have been marked out as disabled but I imagine either for a resident, a worker or for visiting customers. On this occasion, I think you're gong to have to pony up €120 and certainly don't think about appealing. Anyone willing to cut a clamp off in that location would be highly visible.

There is a disabled spot right where that white van is and that is where we usually park when we go in. I have been doing so for the last 2-3 years and never had a problem.

What difference would it make if it was for a resident, a worker or for visiting customers? Disabled spots cant be "reserved" for just one person.

Tallon wrote: »

Here's the link http://goo.gl/maps/16MQF

OP, are you parked outside someones front door?

Sure am Tallon, however there is nobody living there anymore

josip

josip wrote: »

They're the Tom Kelly flats, and the person you need to contact is the property developer, Sean Reilly.
(Edit: Who is unlikely to have access to i spy camera footage)

Whose loans are currently with NAMA, so these are probably the people to whom NCPS answer in this case. I'd appeal and also write a letter to NAMA. They're unlikely to want the publicity of headlines like

"NAMA CLAMPS DISABLED NANA"

Marcusm

Luca T wrote: »

There is a disabled spot right where that white van is and that is where we usually park when we go in. I have been doing so for the last 2-3 years and never had a problem.

What difference would it make if it was for a resident, a worker or for visiting customers? Disabled spots cant be "reserved" for just one person.
e

It's on private property so the blue badge gives only such rights as the property holder allows. If the doctor is in that building, it's not surprising that they have such a space but they are highly unlikely to police it. I could paint a disabled space on my drive (effectively what that space is), doesn't bring it within ambit of blue badge unless the building owner/occupier is required as part of planning permission to police it as a disabled space. It's not going to help you though as you were parked elsewhere anyway. I feel sorry that the space wasn't available but I can't see what you're going to do.

Marcusm

josip wrote: »

Whose loans are currently with NAMA, so these are probably the people to whom NCPS answer in this case. I'd appeal and also write a letter to NAMA. They're unlikely to want the publicity of headlines like

"NAMA CLAMPS DISABLED NANA"

They may have taken over his loans but I do not believe they have taken enforcement action so Mr Reilly's company remains in control of the assets day to day. That might be a better avenue to approach.