Girl attempting insurance fraud against me

noah45

background

I was reversing out of a very tight parking space, girl stationary in car on my right. turned my steering wheel and thought I felt something as in did I touch her car? so foot on break. Girl got out, I opened window and said "I wondered did I or didn't I" ? Obviously I did and I would cetaining be at fault if I had damaged her car.

Turned off engine and got out. I didn't move car, just left it in exact position which meant it sticking out and in the way. Cars not touching and absolutely not a mark on either and in peoples way but I wanted to leave as was.

Girl very unpleasant and ranting about her damaged bumper at back! I told her I had not done this, as my car hadn't even got back that far and the damage on her bumper was obviously old. Anyway she kept ranting so I called Gardai .

Outcome was that Gardai saw no damage on either car and it was in fact my tyre that touched her car on area above her wheel when I turned my steering wheel and as it happened while I wasn't moving (just before I moved after locking) there was absolutely not even a mark on her car.

She not happy with that, we exchanged details, have garda names and I took photos. The body work of the cars never actually touched.
Gardai said damage to her back bumper is old. I phoned my insurance and explained all.

ANYWAY it seems she is claiming from my insurance to get back bumper fixed!! So engineer/assesor will be calling to see her car.
I am ok with this and in fact am glad since she was so unpleasant, but how on earth can she be so dishonest? I know 100% there was no damage.

I know she will be found out but it is so wrong that she can even attempt this. I just don't understand people like this.

NIMAN

Be thankful she hasn't got whiplash too.

Sorry to hear of this, but the world is full of chancers like this these days. I recently stopped at a junction and a guy was looking to the right to check traffic and ran into me, maybe at 5mph or so. Got out, no damage on either car (my car was a 2001, bumper already had a few scuffs anyway - worst thing he did was probably dislodge a bit of dirt!), he got out holding his head as if playing the sympathy card, fearing I was going to go off on one, I told him my car was grand, his looked grand too, good luck, all the best, got in and drove off.

I could have claimed and made a few grand for a sore neck, but imho why do that to someone?

Fratoue

Why give her your insurance details knowing there was no damage and testimony of Gardai admitting the same? You seem to have been bullied by her and now shes taking the piss, everything is an allegation the burden of proof is on her but unfortunately with your details its easy for her to take you for a ride.

noah45

She wanted my details and I had no problem giving them as I knew I had nothing to fear. People just have some neck and balls!!

Just don't understand how one can be so dishonest at all.

Ya glad she doesnt have whiplash, yet!

ButtersSuki

noah45 wrote: »

She wanted my details and I had no problem giving them as I knew I had nothing to fear. People just have some neck and balls!!

Just don't understand how one can be so dishonest at all.

Ya glad she doesnt have whiplash, yet!

Insurance co will likely settle as it's cheaper than going to court. It's just a numbers game to them, it's never about who's right and who's wrong.

Did you get the name and number of the Garda who attended the scene? If so I would try and get his assessment of the situation in writing and along with your own submit these to your insurance co. All that said, I wouldn't hold your breath. Sorry.

Corkbah

take a step back OP ....

insurance company receive a phonecall from a woman claiming she was involved in a road traffic accident with you, she has your details - which you cant deny you gave at the scene, gardai have a record of attending the scene, as far as the insurance company are concerned ....something happened !..... and she might get a payout from it.

my advice is to look for the CCTV as soon as possible (today if you can) ...call back down to the area and have a look around - talk to the respective managers and ask if they can hold or make a copy of the footage for you - they will say they cant give it to you - which is normal - so ask if you can view it with them, if thats not possible ask if they can simply make a copy and put it aside for when the Gardai/insurance company request it....this could be your saving grace and could be how you can get the gardai to prosecute her...for making a false claim. (get the managers name ...just for your own records and also so you can tell the gardai that you asked manager "Joe" to put aside a copy of the security footage for the gardai)

if there is no CCTV its basically your word against hers, she might have a different view of events, hopefully the "old" bumper marks show some sign of corrosion which would date it .....did you take pics of the positions of the vehicles, photos of the alleged impact damage etc

if you didn't take any photos you basically have your word against hers and its possible your insurance company will simply payout - Gardai attended the scene which means there is a report of an "incident" ...no gardai no record of it happening !!

noah45

Yes I have photos, NO damage happed since cars didn't touch it was my tyre touching her car. Have names of Gardai. I would go to court willingly as I have not damaged her car. It is so wrong that someone can do this. I am confident that assessor will know straight away that she is lying.

If I didnt get gards out surely I would have been wrong, I got them out in order to prove that she was blaming older damage on me, thought I was actually doing the right thing?

ButtersSuki

Sorry to repeat this but.....

Insurance co will likely settle as it's cheaper than going to court. It's just a numbers game to them, it's never about who's right and who's wrong.

Corkbah

noah45 wrote: »

Yes I have photos, NO damage happed since cars didn't touch it was my tyre touching her car. Have names of Gardai. I would go to court willingly as I have not damaged her car. It is so wrong that someone can do this. I am confident that assessor will know straight away that she is lying.

If I didnt get gards out surely I would have been wrong, I got them out in order to prove that she was blaming older damage on me, thought I was actually doing the right thing?

you were doing the right thing - but from what you've said this person has been through it all herself in the past and knows what insurance companies use as a burden of proof.

I can guarantee you it wont goto court - even if you tell the insurance company you want to take the case on yourself and fight it ... there is a claus in insurance contracts which says the insurance company can take over the claim if they feel you don't have enough money to cover payout, they will be a notice party to the claim anyway, I had a similar claim a few years ago RTA, I rear ended a girl at 5-10km/hr both turning onto a main road where a set of traffic lights are 10feet after the junction - she braked suddenly and I scratched her rear bumper ...at the scene she insisted on an ambulance, paramedics and gardai both told me she was trying it on, medical report said she spent a couple of hours in hospital and was discharged - no injuries - given paracetemol and told to go home.... long story short she claimed she couldn't lift her 5yr old son .... she got 15K out of my insurance and my premiums increased, my NCB jumped back two years.... and went up by a couple of hundred.

to say I'm bitter is the least of it - even earlier this year I had an RTA - I was merging traffic from a sliproad to a dual carriage way when a guy tried to undertake he somehow hit the side of his vehicle against the side of mine and then tried to tell the gardai and insurance company that I changed my mind and came back into the sliproad and I drove into him !!! FFS .... I'm still fighting that one - he eventually admitted liability after 4 months of me having to deal with the insurance company saying things like ... how about both of you pay for the damage to your own vehicles and we leave it at that !! ..... I'm at the point where I'm ready to tell the insurance company that if they don't make a serious offer in the next few weeks that I'm going to pass the matter to my solicitor, they have already admitted liability so legally they dont have much of a case and if I go legal the costs mount for them and their client, I've learned over the years how insurance companies work and to be honest ..... its an industry which needs some serious regulation/investigation.

noah45

OMG this is all sooo wrong.

Sure couldn't I say I got whiplash so ?

How are people allowed do this? I thoght insurance companies were after the truth not fraud? I don't get it?

goz83

A dig in the nose is what she needs. Contact her insurer to let them know the situation. Insurance fraud is the very reason our premiums are so high.

Max Power1

noah45 wrote: »

OMG this is all sooo wrong.

Sure couldn't I say I got whiplash so ?

How are people allowed do this? I thoght insurance companies were after the truth not fraud? I don't get it?

Insurance companies are, with the greatest of respect, BOLLOCKS. An unregulated bunch of fraudsters.

They want the cheapest outcome not the truth. She may be paid out. Be thankful the gardai attended and noted the truth, it may be the difference between her being paid and not.

CiniO

Fratoue wrote: »

Why give her your insurance details knowing there was no damage and testimony of Gardai admitting the same? You seem to have been bullied by her and now shes taking the piss, everything is an allegation the burden of proof is on her but unfortunately with your details its easy for her to take you for a ride.

To be honest OP admitted there was a contact between the vehicles, so in other words there was an accident, and OP was obliged to give his details, whether there is any visible damage or not.

CiniO

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Sorry to repeat this but.....

Insurance co will likely settle as it's cheaper than going to court. It's just a numbers game to them, it's never about who's right and who's wrong.

And that's a perfect argument confirming that current system of motor insurance claims in Ireland is very wrong.

I couldn't and still can't understand how come it's insurance companies to decide about who is at fault of an accident. They have business in paying or not paying, so they should be the last to decide about the fault.

Is there any other country than Ireland, where insurance companies decide about fault at accidents?

ButtersSuki

noah45 wrote: »

OMG this is all sooo wrong.

Sure couldn't I say I got whiplash so ?

How are people allowed do this? I thoght insurance companies were after the truth not fraud? I don't get it?

You as the instigator cannot benefit financially from an accident you caused. You would get your medical bills covered (depending on the fine print in your policy) but no "compo" per se. Now if she hit you, then you can claim. If people could benefit from accidents they caused themselves you'd have thousands of minor tips (and claims) every day.

As I keep saying, this is just a numbers game. The insurance co.'s will take the cheaper option open to them - which in 99 times out of 100 is paying a small claim rather than going to court to risk a higher payout, costs + potential compo etc. Again I emphasise, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO'S RIGHT AND WHO'S WRONG!

Re. fraud - yes, it is. But they're and you're unlikely to be able to prove it and the cost (that word again) of investigating each and every case eventually costs too much to the point where they just settle pretty much everything.

re. court - do you have any idea how long it takes any case to get to court in Ireland? That wait involves a lot of costs and fees on both sides, which if you lose, will be awarded against you. This is another reason why cases are settled without ever going to court.

biko

Inform your insurance company of this incident, just in case she gets in touch.
They'll see her coming.

Mint Sauce

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Sorry to repeat this but.....

Insurance co will likely settle as it's cheaper than going to court. It's just a numbers game to them, it's never about who's right and who's wrong.

Even cheaper to cancel the policy and not pay at all if accessors report finds damage is old.

MugMugs

CiniO wrote: »

And that's a perfect argument confirming that current system of motor insurance claims in Ireland is very wrong.

I couldn't and still can't understand how come it's insurance companies to decide about who is at fault of an accident. They have business in paying or not paying, so they should be the last to decide about the fault.

Is there any other country than Ireland, where insurance companies decide about fault at accidents?

The UK...

It's them that's footing the bill. Of course they make the call. Would you want me negotiating and committing to a car purchase on your behalf?

Max Power1

MugMugs wrote: »

The UK...

It's them that's footing the bill. Of course they make the call. Would you want me negotiating and committing to a car purchase on your behalf?

They are footing the bill with my (or the policyholder's) finances affected too. NCB gone, claim on record etc.

To correct your analogy, it would be like me negotiating and buying you a car with my money (to which you pay 5% every year off- representing the premium) and you are committed to paying whatever rate of motor tax is on the car that I purchase. No choice. (representing the variable negative impact the decision to payout has)

The no choice element is what annoys me about insurance companies here.

MugMugs

Max Power1 wrote: »

They are footing the bill with my (or the policyholder's) finances affected too. NCB gone, claim on record etc.

To correct your analogy, it would be like me negotiating and buying you a car with my money (to which you pay 5% every year off- representing the premium) and you are committed to paying whatever rate of motor tax is on the car that I purchase. No choice. (representing the variable negative impact the decision to payout has)

The no choice element is what annoys me about insurance companies here.

So why agree to terms that youre not happy with? Why not insist that the insurers right to concede liability without your permission is removed before you sign up?

By the way,there are avenues of appeal open to you if youre not happy with your insurers decision(s)

sheesh

Isn't placing a false claim a criminal offense now?

Your tyre touched her car without anything else doing so?

NIMAN

sheesh wrote: »

Isn't placing a false claim a criminal offense now?

It is, but as someone mentioned twice, insurance companies won't question 99.99% of claims, and pay them out.

ironclaw

NIMAN wrote: »

It is, but as someone mentioned twice, insurance companies won't question 99.99% of claims, and pay them out.

Exactly because its cheaper.

The cost of investigating fraud and going to court far exceeds the cost of just writing a cheque for a few €1000.

Max Power1

MugMugs wrote: »

So why agree to terms that youre not happy with? Why not insist that the insurers right to concede liability without your permission is removed before you sign up?

By the way,there are avenues of appeal open to you if youre not happy with your insurers decision(s)

Oftentimes this isnt disclosed upfront (well, aside from the small grey font anyway)

ProudDUB

OP, did the Guard who came to the scene, write up any sort of incident report giving his opinion on what happened? I mean, its one thing for him to tell you that he thinks the damage to her bumper is old, it's another thing to get it in writing.

Did you get his contact details? I'd deffo be contacting her insurance company and ratting her out for attempting insurance fraud. If you could put them in touch with the guard in question, and let them hear from him what happened, that may soften her cough. You may have right on your side, but until you get the Guard involved, its just her word against yours.

NIMAN

Is there any point in the insurance industry running adverts telling us how insurance fraud is taking money out of our pockets, if they won't investigate it when you report a case like this?

What if, in a situation like this, the OP was to go public and get a local newspaper or website to name him, the Guard and the claimant? Would that be libelious?

CiniO

MugMugs wrote: »

The UK...

It's them that's footing the bill. Of course they make the call. Would you want me negotiating and committing to a car purchase on your behalf?

It's completely different thing.
If I caused a damage by my driving to someone's other property, than other person will want me to pay for it.
Let's say damage is worth 5000 euros, then other party wants me to pay 5000 euros.
And because I have insurance, I don't need to fork out from this 5000 out of my pocket, but insurance company must pay it. That's what insurance company is for.

Finding out if it really was my fault and how much is the damage worth definitely shouldn't be insurance company's job.
They might verify it if they want, as you said it's them paying for it, but it definitely shouldn't be their call to have final decision without anyone else having anything to say.

Max Power1

CiniO wrote: »

It's completely different thing.
If I caused a damage by my driving to someone's other property, than other person will want me to pay for it.
Let's say damage is worth 5000 euros, then other party wants me to pay 5000 euros.
And because I have insurance, I don't need to fork out from this 5000 out of my pocket, but insurance company must pay it. That's what insurance company is for.

Finding out if it really was my fault and how much is the damage worth definitely shouldn't be insurance company's job.
They might verify it if they want, as you said it's them paying for it, but it definitely shouldn't be their call to have final decision without anyone else having anything to say.

+1 million to this.
But hey, this is Ireland and everything is done backwards

CiniO

MugMugs wrote: »

So why agree to terms that youre not happy with?

Because third party insurance is obligatory, while at the same time every insurer will insist on those rules. It's not really like you have a choice...

Why not insist that the insurers right to concede liability without your permission is removed before you sign up?

Would any insurer agree to this?

By the way,there are avenues of appeal open to you if youre not happy with your insurers decision(s)

I heard quite often insurers sort someone out claiming from your policy without even informing you.

dr.fuzzenstein

biko wrote: »

Inform your insurance company of this incident, just in case she gets in touch.
They'll see her coming.

The one bit of sense in this thread.
OP, whatever anyone else states in this thread, get CCTV, Garda report and inform your insurance. And inform the Gards of this woman's attempted insurance fraud.
Even if it doesn't work, at least you have done whatever you can. But sitting there and doing nothing because you think it won't do any good anyway is the one guaranteed way to failure.
And keep us posted, we're dying to know what happens next.

Rhys Essien

OP,have you seen the Insurance fraud adverts on the television.Its a pity that there are these horrible parasite fcukers in society.A woman tipped my back bumper a few years ago at a set of traffic lights.I had a 10 year car and there was no damage done.I told her to carry on.She looked at me suprised.

You can report her here.

http://www.insuranceconfidential.ie/Fraud/home.html

Corkbah

Rhys Essien wrote: »

OP,have you seen the Insurance fraud adverts on the television.Its a pity that there are these horrible parasite fcukers in society.A woman tipped my back bumper a few years ago at a set of traffic lights.I had a 10 year car and there was no damage done.I told her to carry on.She looked at me suprised.

You can report her here.

http://www.insuranceconfidential.ie/Fraud/home.html

reporting her won't do a whole lot - unless the insurance company investigate and find in the favour of the OP ...and even at then...the report should be made to the Gardai not the insurance company....the insurance company will only add the person to their "flagged" list in the event of that person seeking insurance or seeking a claim against another person.

Max Power1

Rhys Essien wrote: »

OP,have you seen the Insurance fraud adverts on the television.Its a pity that there are these horrible parasite fcukers in society.A woman tipped my back bumper a few years ago at a set of traffic lights.I had a 10 year car and there was no damage done.I told her to carry on.She looked at me suprised.

You can report her here.

http://www.insuranceconfidential.ie/Fraud/home.html

Does that site do anything? I've reported a fraudster there months ago but didnt hear anything

NIMAN

OP,

I assume you have her details?

Why not call her and tell her that you are reporting her for fraud, and are prepared to go to court to testify as to what really happened.

Might put the frighteners on her?

Corkbah

NIMAN wrote: »

OP,

I assume you have her details?

Why not call her and tell her that you are reporting her for fraud, and are prepared to go to court to testify as to what really happened.

Might put the frighteners on her?

thats got to be VERY bad advice ... do NOT contact her as doing the above could also be deemed as a threat.

deal only with the insurance company and also only deal with them by email (people's memories of phone conversations often get forgotten and agreements made by the other side are often mislaid if they are on a recording which you don't have access to) ... if everything is done by email you have an electronic copy of every correspondence (so they cannot ..."don't remember".)

if they phone ...say its not convenient and ask them to email you and you'll get back asap.

noah45

Two guards arrived at scene, I didn't get written report, but have their names.

I told my insurance company straight away

Yes my tyre touched her car, nothing else happened.

She really is commiting fraud and I will be reporting her.

Thanks all for replies

ButtersSuki

noah45 wrote: »

Two guards arrived at scene, I didn't get written report, but have their names.

I told my insurance company straight away

Yes my tyre touched her car, nothing else happened.

She really is commiting fraud and I will be reporting her.

Thanks all for replies

That's all well and good but don't expect everything to be fine even with the above......wouldn't count your chickens just yet I'm afraid. Sorry...

djimi

I would have thought that a statement from the Gardai who were at the scene to say that there is no way that what they saw could have caused the damage that she is claiming would be sufficient to show her up as the fraudster that she is. Ive had to get the Gardai involved in two seperate insurance claims and on both occasions they were excellent at following up and giving their statement.

MugMugs

CiniO wrote: »

Because third party insurance is obligatory, while at the same time every insurer will insist on those rules. It's not really like you have a choice...


Would any insurer agree to this?

But why do they all do this? Because the customer isn't always right and at the end of the day, the courts fail the system.

ANY little shred of doubt and a judge will generally award the plaintiff. It's just not financially viable to fight small claims in this pathetic backward country. So you settle low and save costs.

A litigated "bump" gone wrong could cost in excess of 70k.

This lassy has damage on her car. The OP accepts that he potentially hit her car and thinks it was his tyre. She has damage to her car. The law is an ass. What way do you think that would swing if it went to court? And even if the insurer did win, who is going to pay for their costs? She certainly wont and it's doubtful that she is a mark for recovery.

So give her 500 quid or face a bigger bill of 3k. 4k, 10k?

NuckingFacker

OP-some turd reversed into my parked unoccupied van, causing substantial damage. They then claimed I hit them and the insurance company paid out, despite statements from witnesses, etc etc that my van was parked and locked at the time. Don't hold your breath for a straightforward outcome to this. Some people are just shyte.

FGR

OP. Notify your insurance company. Inform them of Gardaí being aware of the situation. They'll notify the guards who attended the scene who will explain exactly what they have seen.

The other insurance company would be reluctant to push it any further knowing that Garda testimony may be held against them. Also it must be remembered that this chancer's insurance company may also be liable for costs if it did go to court so they don't want to fight unless they know they'll win.

Corkbah

FGR wrote: »

OP. Notify your insurance company. Inform them of Gardaí being aware of the situation. They'll notify the guards who attended the scene who will explain exactly what they have seen.

The other insurance company would be reluctant to push it any further knowing that Garda testimony may be held against them. Also it must be remembered that this chancer's insurance company may also be liable for costs if it did go to court so they don't want to fight unless they know they'll win.

insurance company on her side will look to settle out of court and seek payment from the OPs insurance company ....both insurance companies will want to settle it out of court - the difference is if the OP's insurance believes the claim is false and fight ...or if they simply pay-out .... its not their own money they are paying out.

its the OP and others who pay them insurance money...so they dont care about a couple of grand here and there if its a 50-50 story ... he says one version, she says another version.... if you cant believe which is the truth or cant determine it by using engineers (which all cost money)

Then a payout to the person whinging and looking for money usually shuts them up....the OP will still pay his/her insurance and life will go on ...actually as a result the OP will be unable to get insurance with another company as he/she would have had a claim against them in the previous 5yrs (post claim) ...so premiums are hefty and often impossible to get.

the reason insurance companies dont want to goto court is that they have no control over the fees and they do not make any of the money - it goes to the barristers and solicitors, if an insurance company settles a claim the money is paid out and both parties involved have a mark on their insurance so both premiums are loaded with higher insurance (which in my opinion is wrong)

MugMugs

FGR wrote: »

The other insurance company would be reluctant to push it any further knowing that Garda testimony may be held against them.

What does the Garda know?

The Gardai weren't present to witness the accident.

Does the Garda have the relevant qualifications to give a professional opinion on how old the damage was or indeed, how the damage was caused to the claimants vehicle?

They've upped their game in Templemore if non Traffic Gardai have this.

djimi

NuckingFacker wrote: »

OP-some turd reversed into my parked unoccupied van, causing substantial damage. They then claimed I hit them and the insurance company paid out, despite statements from witnesses, etc etc that my van was parked and locked at the time. Don't hold your breath for a straightforward outcome to this. Some people are just shyte.

I wonder has anyone ever attempted to take legal action against their insurance company when in a situation like this? You pay these people to protect your financial interests and to assist you in the event of a claim, not to **** all over you from a great height because this is the easiest solution for them.

Corkbah

NuckingFacker wrote: »

OP-some turd reversed into my parked unoccupied van, causing substantial damage. They then claimed I hit them and the insurance company paid out, despite statements from witnesses, etc etc that my van was parked and locked at the time. Don't hold your breath for a straightforward outcome to this. Some people are just shyte.

would the insurance company not give you their details during the claim .... im not saying name and shame ...but Karma comes in all forms.

ba_barabus

Corkbah wrote: »

would the insurance company not give you their details during the claim .... im not saying name and shame ...but Karma comes in all forms.

Honestly I wouldn't go there. Karma is a b!tch lest we forget

Zubeneschamali

djimi wrote: »

I wonder has anyone ever attempted to take legal action against their insurance company when in a situation like this?

You can write to them and instruct them that they do not represent you in this case, and that they are not authorised to act for you.

Then you can defend yourself in court, and pay all costs and awards yourself if you lose.

MugMugs

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Then you can defend yourself in court, and pay all costs and awards yourself if you lose.

All because you wanted to save you NCB

Corkbah

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You can write to them and instruct them that they do not represent you in this case, and that they are not authorised to act for you.

Then you can defend yourself in court, and pay all costs and awards yourself if you lose.

there is a clause in every insurance contract that says the insurance company can take full control despite your opinions/actions as they will ultimately have to be a notice party anyway so will be joined to proceedings in the event it makes it to court.

Feel free to actually read the insurance policy terms and conditions that were given to you when you purchased car insurance.

djimi

MugMugs wrote: »

All because you wanted to save you NCB

To be honest, its more the principle of it than anything. If someone drives into my parked and unoccupied car and I have evidence to show that this is the case, then I do not expect my insurer, who I pay a great deal of money to, to turn around and pay out in a claim against me. In a case like this it is blatantly obvious that they are acting only in their own interest, which is why I would be interested to know if anyone has ever taken legal action against an insurer after they have wrongly paid out on a false claim against them.