Should we teach evolution and the big bang in Irish schools from an early age?

steddyeddy

Evolution is accepted by most as the reason for the diversity of life and earth and the big bang is generally accepted as the reason the universe as we know it exists. I see know reason whatsoever as to why we shouldn't teach these facts from an early age, say at the beginning of primary school. Richard Dawkins (I'm no a fan of everything he does) is trying to get schools to teach kids evolution from an early age. His critics say that kids wouldn't understand complex things like the big bang or evolution.

Personally I think kids will understand as much as you encourage them to understand. Our schools patronize kids enough as it is and most kids have the intelligence to understand these things if explained simply enough.

Anyway I've included a poll so it would be interesting to get opinions on this!

aaabbbb

I see no poll....

My name is URL

The fact the question needs to be asked makes me have a sad

The Backwards Man

I'd rather schools taught children to read and write, and also add and subract from an early age.

Because they don't seem to be doing this anymore.

steddyeddy

aaabbbb wrote: »

I see no poll....

Ever bloody time I start a thread with a poll I see this post ! The thread always posts before I'm given the chance to include poll options!

SV

I can't make sense of the poll

Me_Grapes

Who's E?

steddyeddy

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I'd rather schools taught children to read and write, and also add and subract from an early age.

Because they don't seem to be doing this anymore.

I completely agree that schools are dumbing down.

Micky Dolenz

Teaching a couple of European Languages would be handy.

If it's part of a science class, I suppose. I think good maths and reading and writing should be very important though

steddyeddy

SV wrote: »

I can't make sense of the poll

Apologies for some reason the poll options merged together. I'll ask a mod to change it when they get the chance.

Karl Stein

That and nihilism.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

My teacher in 6th class looked at me as if to say "What the fúck is this idiot on about?" when I suggested the mere possibility of the Big Bang Theory. And it's not as if he was an old teacher either, was only in his forties and this was about 7/8 years ago. Prick.

Edit: I also got in trouble one for telling a girl in my class in about 3rd class that we are all actually monkeys. I was just after hearing the concept of evolution. :pac:

The Backwards Man

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Teaching a couple of European Languages would be handy.

Maybe even forget about the European ones at this stage, except possibly Spanish.

Mandarin is the future.

Zaph

Poll fixed

kowloon

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Teaching a couple of European Languages would be handy.

Irish is an official EU language.

harney

This feels like some sort of X-Factor type vote... That would be 4 yeses OP.

Feeling my age, is it not taught already?

steddyeddy

Zaph wrote: »

Poll fixed

Thanks Zaph

IM0

no religion is good for kids, just drop all the [insert your diety here] and massive guilt thing from it, and make it like a santa clasue thing, let them grow out of it before it ruins their life. so mid-late primary school i think

steddyeddy

I voted Pre school in case there's any doubt!

DEFTLEFTHAND

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Teaching a couple of European Languages would be handy.

They're a few Primary schools who do it. For instance I started learning French in 5th class.

It would be nice to see it happen across the board.

kowloon

IM0 wrote: »

no religion is good for kids, just drop all the [insert your diety here] and massive guilt thing from it, and make it like a santa clasue thing, let them grow out of it before it ruins their life

One view of it: It's important to teach it early while they're young and accept things more easily. If you wait until later they'll have too many questions and won't feel guilty about it.

harney

Zaph wrote: »

Poll fixed

You suck, you've just lost us hours of AH trolling

MagicMarker

So you're asking if we should teach science in primary school? Eh, well yes, yes I would.

steddyeddy

IM0 wrote: »

no religion is good for kids, just drop all the [insert your diety here] and massive guilt thing from it, and make it like a santa clasue thing, let them grow out of it before it ruins their life

Well considering the amount of religious threads lately I didnt include that we should teach the science in place of religion. I just don't see why we can't teach the big bang and evolution from an early age.

My name is URL

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Maybe even forget about the European ones at this stage, except possibly Spanish.

Mandarin is the future.

The market for Mandarin speakers is a already a bit flooded

The Backwards Man

kowloon wrote: »

One view of it: It's important to teach it early while they're young and accept things more easily. If you wait until later they'll have too many questions and won't feel guilty about it.

Is that not how you, like, learn stuff though? By asking questions?

kowloon

I wish there had been science taught when I was in primary school. Spent a huge amount of time learning hymns that could have been put to proper use. Spent more time being forced to sing than doing Maths if I remember correctly.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Is that not how you, like, learn stuff though? By asking questions?

It is, unless what you're teaching is dogma. Questions tend to mess up that process.

IM0

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well considering the amount of religious threads lately I didnt include that we should teach the science in place of religion. I just don't see why we can't teach the big bang and evolution from an early age.

because its either evolution or creationism you cant have both!

Midlife Crashes

Do people genuinely that at pre school , the same time children are learning to read and write, that they'll be able to grasp evolution....
Just keep God out of primary school classrooms and don't try and push the complete opposite agenda. You'd basically be advocating the very thing you oppose..

The Backwards Man

My name is URL wrote: »

The market for Mandarin speakers is a already a bit flooded

Yeah, but it might become more of a monopoly than a market in the future.

Teach the Big Bang in Mandarin. Win-win.

hyperborean

kowloon wrote: »

One view of it: It's important to teach it early while they're young and accept things more easily. If you wait until later they'll have too many questions and won't feel guilty about it.

The old Catholic doctrine,

anyway all you lovely atheists with clever children should find a school that does, I will let mine learn to read and write and keep the **** away from both atheists with agenda's and religious nuts who think superman is looking down on us and will keep some imaginary piece of us that they think exists after we die.

When she gets to secondary school with a decent primary foundation of analytic thinking she should by all means look at science very seriously, and as such the big bang (but probably at full adulthood to really get down and dirty) , trying to properly explain the singularity would be difficult/impossible if they ask? Indoctrinating children to something they really will never get is a heinous and malicious act and anyone lobbying for it should be mocked for arrogant!

Let them have a childhood free of agenda's

LETHAL LADY

My son loved to read from an early age. When he was in senior infants he was asked to talk in front of the class about an interest that he has. He was just after reading about the big bang in a junior science facts book and chose to speak about this. The poor little guy ended up with the whole class laughing at him because they had no idea what he was on about. Naturally he was upset and it made me mad to think that children who do have an interest in these things are not really catered for.

Benny_Cake

IM0 wrote: »

because its either evolution or creationism you cant have both!

The main Christian churches in this country don't dispute the theory of evolution. Creationism is a minority interest in Ireland.

Best get the basics (reading, writing, arithmetic) sorted first as they're the foundation for everything else, but in 4th or 5th class some sort of introduction to the subject of evolution seems to make sense. Science was taught on a fairly ad-hoc basis when I was in primary school, it really depended on the interest of the teacher in question. I had one teacher who was really into nature and wildlife, and another who was into astronomy and space, but the others didn't have a lot of interest, which was a pity.

kowloon

hyperborean wrote: »

.

I never said I was an atheist, what I will say is there was an awful lot of time devoted to hymns in school when I was there, but don't let me get in the way of your angry rant. It's best to get it all out on the internet.

The Backwards Man

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Is that not how you, like, learn stuff though? By asking questions?

I think he was talking about religious indoctrination and the view that it's best to get them while they're young and still more inclined to believe what they're told
And yes, some actual christians say that

steddyeddy

Midlife Crashes wrote: »

Do people genuinely that at pre school , the same time children are learning to read and write, that they'll be able to grasp evolution....
Just keep God out of primary school classrooms and don't try and push the complete opposite agenda. You'd basically be advocating the very thing you oppose..

Yes I believe kids in general are smarter than we give them credit for. If you educate kids in an effective way you can potentially increase their intelligence.

Gbear

Booooooo. Religion. Boooooooooo.

Am I doing it right?

steddyeddy

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

My son loved to read from an early age. When he was in senior infants he was asked to talk in front of the class about an interest that he has. He was just after reading about the big bang in a junior science facts book and chose to speak about this. The poor little guy ended up with the whole class laughing at him because they had no idea what he was on about. Naturally he was upset and it made me mad to think that children who do have an interest in these things are not really catered for.

Poor guy has nothing to be upset about lethal lady. He already seems leaps and bounds ahead of the rest.

I had a similar experience in school talking about evolution and homologous genes and the teacher told me "no scientist takes evolution seriously". . genuinely was made to feel like the stupid one because I made an effort to read about these things from an early age.

steddyeddy

Gbear wrote: »

Booooooo. Religion. Boooooooooo.

Am I doing it right?

I didn't mention religion in my opening post. We could teach both the big bang and the religious belief.

dirtyden

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well considering the amount of religious threads lately I didnt include that we should teach the science in place of religion. I just don't see why we can't teach the big bang and evolution from an early age.

Do you mean they should teach more science in primary schools? if that is the question i would resoundly say yes. But i would certainly not focus on the big bang theory or evolution, what would the point of that be (possibly the real point you started this thread i guess)?

I dont really understand the point of this thread. Do you want 4 years olds to attend classes which specifically only deal with the theory of evolution and big bang theory? They are quite complex topics unless significantly dumbed down for kids. And if you are going to need to dumb it down completely are you really teaching anymore?

I mean should quantum theory be thought in senior infants? How about string theory should 10 year olds have a background in that? Why have you picked evolution and the big bang theory as topics that young children should be thought (although I think we all know why you chose them).

He's picked those topics to be taught because it's a big hype in the media and Richard Dawkins is campaigning for it, apparently. So it's current.

Festy

What they need to teach and should be teaching in schools already is Mental Health, that should be subject imo,Bullying too.Combine both into one subject...It would save so many lives....

kowloon

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes I believe kids in general are smarter than we give them credit for. If you educate kids in an effective way you can potentially increase their intelligence.

You don't have to go into too much detail, just introduce the idea. Children love animals, mention dinosaurs and they'll be even more interested.

dirtyden

kowloon wrote: »

You don't have to go into too much detail, just introduce the idea. Children love animals, mention dinosaurs and they'll be even more interested.

So what you are saying is that you should not explain it to them properly, but just have them accept the basics. Is that called faith perhaps, indoctrination even?

These are theories based on some decent scientific evidence. By separating the sometimes complex evidence supporting the theories from the education process, well is it really teaching anymore or just indoctrination.

Let kids study slightly motre advanced science when they are ready for it, probably later in secondary school.

DaveDaRave

I thought it was illegal to teach evolution until i was like 17.

so yeah

steddyeddy

dirtyden wrote: »

Do you mean they should teach more science in primary schools? if that is the question i would resoundly say yes. But i would certainly not focus on the big bang theory or evolution, what would the point of that be (possibly the real point you started this thread i guess)?

I dont really understand the point of this thread. Do you want 4 years olds to attend classes which specifically only deal with the theory of evolution and big bang theory? They are quite complex topics unless significantly dumbed down for kids. And if you are going to need to dumb it down completely are you really teaching anymore?

I mean should quantum theory be thought in senior infants? How about string theory should 10 year olds have a background in that? Why have you picked evolution and the big bang theory as topics that young children should be thought (although I think we all know why you chose them).

The way you keep implying I have an ulterior motive suggests I will get some sort of commission every time a kid is taught these things!

One of the most important questions in life is why and how are we here? The big bang theory and evolution are the best scientific reasons we have. Whether or not they are hard should be beside the point. The most important thing is that they are the most probable.

rab!dmonkey

baz2009 wrote: »

My teacher in 6th class looked at me as if to say "What the fúck is this idiot on about?" when I suggested the mere possibility of the Big Bang Theory. And it's not as if he was an old teacher either, was only in his forties and this was about 7/8 years ago. Prick.

Edit: I also got in trouble one for telling a girl in my class in about 3rd class that we are all actually monkeys. I was just after hearing the concept of evolution. :pac:

Ye are not monkeys. Monkeys have tails.

steddyeddy

bluewolf wrote: »

He's picked those topics to be taught because it's a big hype in the media and Richard Dawkins is campaigning for it, apparently. So it's current.

You're joking?

dirtyden

steddyeddy wrote: »

The way you keep implying I have an ulterior motive suggests I will get some sort of commission every time a kid is taught these things!

One of the most important questions in life is why and how are we here? The big bang theory and evolution are the best scientific reasons we have. Whether or not they are hard should be beside the point. The most important thing is that they are the most probable.

But you cannot just jump into this stuff from nowhere. You seem to be ignoring that point. Teaching young kids theory that they will find
very difficult to grasp when they have no background to the fundamentals of where that theory is derived is not wise. Without the theory it is not teaching science. Do you want teaching or indoctrination? If you want teaching is not best to wait until the kids have some background in science?

kowloon

dirtyden wrote: »

So what you are saying is that you should not explain it to them properly, but just have them accept the basics. Is that called faith perhaps, indoctrination even?

These are theories based on some decent scientific evidence. By separating the sometimes complex evidence supporting the theories from the education process, well is it really teaching anymore or just indoctrination.

And perhaps we should hold off on telling them about gravity while we're at it, because it would just be indoctrination.

dirtyden wrote: »

But you cannot just jump into this stuff from nowhere. You seem to be ignoring that point.

So, where do you start then?