Practicing on the course

Russman

Anyone know the rule regarding a competition run over two days - basically if the time sheet is open for, say, two hours on a Friday afternoon for the Saturday singles, can you play a casual game on the Friday and then enter the comp in the Saturday ? Obviously you can't enter the comp twice, that's not the query.

I've heard various interpretations varying from "no, it's practicing on the course" to "it's a different day so it doesn't matter" and some in between !!

PARlance

Russman wrote: »

Anyone know the rule regarding a competition run over two days - basically if the time sheet is open for, say, two hours on a Friday afternoon for the Saturday singles, can you play a casual game on the Friday and then enter the comp in the Saturday ? Obviously you can't enter the comp twice, that's not the query.

I've heard various interpretations varying from "no, it's practicing on the course" to "it's a different day so it doesn't matter" and some in between !!

We just got this text last night:

Please note that any member playing in the Club competition on a Sunday is not permitted to play the course on the Saturday. This is in accordance with the Rules of Golf (7-1b) & will be closely monitored. Any member found to have played on Saturday & then play in the competition on the Sunday will be disqualified.

Rule 7 - Practice

7-1 Before or Between Rounds

a. Match Play

On any day of a match play competition, a player may practise on the competition course before a round.

b. Stroke Play

Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke play competition, a competitor must not practise on the competition course or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

When two or more rounds of a stroke play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practise between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

Exception: Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground or any practice area before starting a round or play-off is permitted.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 7-1b:
Disqualification.

Note: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit practice on the competition course on any day of a match play competition or permit practice on the competition course or part of the course (Rule 33-2c) on any day of or between rounds of a stroke play competition.

DuckSlice

It's the same as going out doing 18 holes, then going into the clubhouse entering the comp and doing another 18 holes! Well that's the way I look at it!

Russman

Presumably you can enter your Sunday comp on the Sat and that's why they've sent that txt ? Maybe i misread it !
Surely they can't stop playing the day before unless there's a facility to enter the Sunday comp on the sat ?

Mr. Larson

ajcurry123 wrote: »

We just got this text last night:

Please note that any member playing in the Club competition on a Sunday is not permitted to play the course on the Saturday. This is in accordance with the Rules of Golf (7-1b) & will be closely monitored. Any member found to have played on Saturday & then play in the competition on the Sunday will be disqualified.

Rule 7 - Practice

7-1 Before or Between Rounds

a. Match Play

On any day of a match play competition, a player may practise on the competition course before a round.

b. Stroke Play

Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke play competition, a competitor must not practise on the competition course or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

When two or more rounds of a stroke play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practise between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

Exception: Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground or any practice area before starting a round or play-off is permitted.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 7-1b:
Disqualification.

Note: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit practice on the competition course on any day of a match play competition or permit practice on the competition course or part of the course (Rule 33-2c) on any day of or between rounds of a stroke play competition.

Committees can have a local rule which enables you to play Saturday casual and Sunday comp for example when there is a comp run over 2 days. Probably be different tees anyway (albeit pin positions are same). Some lads like to play casual on Saturday, maybe bring visitors. Prohibiting them from doing so would be bad imo.

Exceptions in our place are Medals (they are not run over 2 days).

Almaviva

Russman wrote: »

Presumably you can enter your Sunday comp on the Sat and that's why they've sent that txt ? Maybe i misread it !
Surely they can't stop playing the day before unless there's a facility to enter the Sunday comp on the sat ?

They arent stopping you playing as such. You can play but are disqualified from the competition if you play it the next day according to the rules of golf.

As Larson says, committees can override the rule. But if they dont explicitly state that you arepermitted to play the course on the Sat and still enter a valid score in the competition on the Sunday then you are disqualified. If they dont allow it, just play the other way - comp on Sat, casual on Sunday.

GreeBo

What defines the same course though?
Our comps are off the blues but casual rounds are off the whites...is that the same course?

It does mention testing the green though, so I guess that rules it out anyway?

Russman

Almaviva wrote: »

They arent stopping you playing as such. You can play but are disqualified from the competition if you play it the next day according to the rules of golf.
.

I think I might be having a blonde day so apologies if I'm getting confused !

That's the bit I don't get, why are you disqualified if its the Sunday comp and you play on a Saturday ? Fair enough I get it if the comp is over two days or you can enter on either day, but surely you're not DQd for simply playing the day before ?

Almaviva

Russman wrote: »

I think I might be having a blonde day so apologies if I'm getting confused !

That's the bit I don't get, why are you disqualified if its the Sunday comp and you play on a Saturday ? Fair enough I get it if the comp is over two days or you can enter on either day, but surely you're not DQd for simply playing the day before ?

Correct, you are not dqd for that. If its a Sunday only comp, of course you can play on the Saturday, and then play in the comp on the Sunday.

If its a combined Sat/Sun comp where you can play either day, that is the case that you cannot then play a casual round on the Sat and then play your competition round on the Sunday.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

What defines the same course though?
Our comps are off the blues but casual rounds are off the whites...is that the same course?

It does mention testing the green though, so I guess that rules it out anyway?

Interesting point. What if you played of different tees and didn't go near the greens ? Unlikely I suppose !!

Reading the rule it seems a little grey to me, or maybe I'm just not in tune with it this evening, it mentions two or more rounds, but what if its the same round, as in our place where there's a 2 hour slot on a Friday afternoon to enter the Saturday comp ?

Ahhh f--k it, I don't know. We got a txt saying we couldn't play after the two hour slot begins which seems to be a bit of a fudge and neither here nor there !!

Almaviva

GreeBo wrote: »

What defines the same course though?
Our comps are off the blues but casual rounds are off the whites...is that the same course?

It does mention testing the green though, so I guess that rules it out anyway?

Its still a dq even to hit a ball from a forward/different tee:


Decision 7-1b/1
Q: On the day of a stroke play competition, a competitor, before starting his round, played one practice stroke from a forward tee at the first hole into an out-of-bounds area. What is the ruling?
A: The competitor infringed Rule 7-1b and was subject to disqualification. However, the Committee would be justified, in the circumstances, in modifying the penalty to two strokes under Rule 33-7. If the competitor played more than one such stroke, modification of the disqualification penalty would not be appropriate.

PARlance

Russman wrote: »

Presumably you can enter your Sunday comp on the Sat and that's why they've sent that txt ? Maybe i misread it !
Surely they can't stop playing the day before unless there's a facility to enter the Sunday comp on the sat ?

Should have clarified that, yes, our comp is held over two days

PARlance

Russman wrote: »

Interesting point. What if you played of different tees and didn't go near the greens ? Unlikely I suppose !!

Reading the rule it seems a little grey to me, or maybe I'm just not in tune with it this evening, it mentions two or more rounds, but what if its the same round, as in our place where there's a 2 hour slot on a Friday afternoon to enter the Saturday comp ?

Ahhh f--k it, I don't know. We got a txt saying we couldn't play after the two hour slot begins which seems to be a bit of a fudge and neither here nor there !!

From what I understand Rule 7 doesn't cover it, it's the final part of this that boxes it off for me.

Tough week Russman/Aj (added myself to that) ???

Note: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit practice on the competition course on any day of a match play competition or permit practice on the competition course or part of the course (Rule 33-2c) on any day of or between rounds of a stroke play competition.

Edit: I'm actually a bit confused myself. When they say 2 day competition I certainly get the impression that it meant a 36 hole event rather than 2 seperate competition days where each player only plays 18holes (like in our clubs case, where its 2 day to facilitate high
Membership)

Rule 33-2c could be adopted to let people play...
When I got the text it stank of the club trying to maximise green fees at the expense of members.

Johnodot

I assume we are talking about an alternate day to the main day, so you could play in the competition on either Friday or Saturday. In our club, Sunday is main day, and Saturday the alternate day. As competition secretary, I added the local rule to state that playing on Saturday does not constitute practice. As a small club, we are keen to encourage people to play, not discourage them. You do need the local rule, otherwise playing on the course on the first day constitutes practice if playing in the competition on the 2nd day.

Uncle Ben

ajcurry123 wrote: »

We just got this text last night:

Please note that any member playing in the Club competition on a Sunday is not permitted to play the course on the Saturday. This is in accordance with the Rules of Golf (7-1b) & will be closely monitored. Any member found to have played on Saturday & then play in the competition on the Sunday will be disqualified.

Rule 7 - Practice

7-1 Before or Between Rounds

a. Match Play

On any day of a match play competition, a player may practise on the competition course before a round.

b. Stroke Play

Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke play competition, a competitor must not practise on the competition course or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

When two or more rounds of a stroke play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practise between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

Exception: Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground or any practice area before starting a round or play-off is permitted.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 7-1b:
Disqualification.

Note: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit practice on the competition course on any day of a match play competition or permit practice on the competition course or part of the course (Rule 33-2c) on any day of or between rounds of a stroke play competition.

The rules above state strokeplay or matchplay. What happens if the competition is stableford?

Johnodot

Stableford rules are the same (more or less) as for Stroke play. See rule 32-1.

PARlance

Johnodot wrote: »

I assume we are talking about an alternate day to the main day, so you could play in the competition on either Friday or Saturday. In our club, Sunday is main day, and Saturday the alternate day. As competition secretary, I added the local rule to state that playing on Saturday does not constitute practice. As a small club, we are keen to encourage people to play, not discourage them. You do need the local rule, otherwise playing on the course on the first day constitutes practice if playing in the competition on the 2nd day.

Thanks for the clarification Johnodot.

They're hungry for the Sat green fees so...not too impressed with the club & text

Sandwlch

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification Johnodot.

They're hungry for the Sat green fees so...not too impressed with the club & text

Play casual golf both days ? Club loses your competition entry fee, but you still get two rounds in, even if you dont get to compete.

GreeBo

do the rules distinguish between an alternate day and a second day?

i.e. 18 hole comp where you can play either day v's a 36 hole comp?

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

do the rules distinguish between an alternate day and a second day?

i.e. 18 hole comp where you can play either day v's a 36 hole comp?

Rule 7 - Practice

7-1 Before or Between Rounds

b. Stroke Play

Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke play competition, a competitor must not practise on the competition course or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

When two or more rounds of a stroke play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practise between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

Exception: Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground or any practice area before starting a round or play-off is permitted.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 7-1b:
Disqualification.

Note: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit practice on the competition course on any day of a match play competition or permit practice on the competition course or part of the course (Rule 33-2c) on any day of or between rounds of a stroke play competition.

It's not 100% clear to me, when first reading it I thought it was aimed at someone "practicing" in between a 36 hole event.
However, I think it does include an 18 hole comp where you can play either day.
That would be backed up by the text I received (we do 18 hole comp over a choice of 2 days) from our club mentioning the rule.
Also backed up by the fact that Johnodot, as Comp Secretary in his club (who also do 18 holes over a choice of 2 days) has brought in a local rule allowing members to play on the first day (practice).

slave1

I'm surprised on the local rule allowing folk to play a casual round on the Saturday and then letting them play in a competition on the Sunday (assumes a two day competition) as this infers a local rule superceding a rule of golf which I thought was not allowed.
Anyhow, bit of sense, play the competition the first day and then the casual round the second day and be done with it.

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke play competition, a competitor must not practise on the competition course or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

When two or more rounds of a stroke play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practise between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

Actually reading the bolded bits above I think its ok.
To me, the first part is saying that you cant practice on the day.
The second part explicitely says "two or more rounds"

So a single round, but split over multiple days, wouldnt seem to be covered by this rule...?

GreeBo

slave1 wrote: »

Anyhow, bit of sense, play the competition the first day and then the casual round the second day and be done with it.

Our first day is a Friday, main day on the Sat, so not possible to do that.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

Actually reading the bolded bits above I think its ok.
To me, the first part is saying that you cant practice on the day.
The second part explicitely says "two or more rounds"

So a single round, but split over multiple days, wouldnt seem to be covered by this rule...?[/QUOTE]

That's exactly what has me a little confused........

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

Our first day is a Friday, main day on the Sat, so not possible to do that.

Have you been cheating Greebo???

I agree it is confusing...
The text from the club and Johnodot as a Comp Sec swung me to believe it that you're not allowed play a casual round on the Friday (in your case... you cheat)

Ronney

Due to this and after advice from the GUI our club has stopped supplemental comps on Friday evenings. Bit of a pain as always found them a handy way to get a round in if away for a wedding or the likes on the Saturday. Also those playing on Sunday face DQ if practicing on the course on Saturday with a local rule/exception made for those playing interclub matches.

Here is the email we got

"SUPPLEMENTARY TIMESHEETS
Following receipt of advice from the Golfing Union of Ireland the Men’s Committee has decided to dispense with Friday Supplementary Timesheets in qualifying competitions with immediate effect. To compensate for this change, additional time will be provided on Saturday and/or Sunday timesheets.
Rule 7-1b of the Rules of Golf does not permit players to practice on the competition course before playing in a stroke play competition. The penalty for a breach of this rule is disqualification.
When players have a choice between Main Day or Alternative (Supplementary) Day participation in a stroke play competition, any player who elects to play on the second day of the competition is not permitted to play on the competition course on the earlier day of the said competition.
Exceptions will be made, for instance, where players who elect to play on the second day of a competition are representing the Club in an inter-club match or competing in another event on the earlier day of the said competition. In such cases a Local Rule will be posted as a Condition of the Competition permitting those involved in the inter-club competition or other event to play on the competition course on the earlier day of the said competition."

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Have you been cheating Greebo???

I agree it is confusing...
The text from the club and Johnodot as a Comp Sec swung me to believe it that you're not allowed play a casual round on the Friday (in your case... you cheat)

Of course not, I play on our practice holes on Fridays :cool:

(:D)

Johnodot

The GUI website is silent on the matter. However, the key word is "any". The Welsh union site is more helpful. See http://www.golfunionwales.org/alternative-days.aspx.

hades

Johnodot wrote: »

I assume we are talking about an alternate day to the main day, so you could play in the competition on either Friday or Saturday. In our club, Sunday is main day, and Saturday the alternate day. As competition secretary, I added the local rule to state that playing on Saturday does not constitute practice. As a small club, we are keen to encourage people to play, not discourage them. You do need the local rule, otherwise playing on the course on the first day constitutes practice if playing in the competition on the 2nd day.

No such rule in my club for normal competitions, this only comes into play for the Captains and Presidents Prize.

Otherwise we're like Johnodot said above, our weekend competitions run on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday and you can enter the competition on all 3 days if you like.

GreeBo

hades wrote: »

No such rule in my club for normal competitions, this only comes into play for the Captains and Presidents Prize.

Otherwise we're like Johnodot said above, our weekend competitions run on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday and you can enter the competition on all 3 days if you like.

that's 3 different competitions though, so not the same scenario...

Miley Byrne

GreeBo wrote: »

that's 3 different competitions though, so not the same scenario...

Nope, we're the same. If the same comp is on Friday, Saturday & Sunday then I can enter on all three days in the same comp.

GreeBo

denisoc16 wrote: »

Nope, we're the same. If the same comp is on Friday, Saturday & Sunday then I can enter on all three days in the same comp.

so you can come first, second and third in the same comp ?

hades

GreeBo wrote: »

so you can come first, second and third in the same comp ?

The 3 days are for the same competition, but you don't generally see people winning more than one prize when they're announced.

Miley Byrne

GreeBo wrote: »

so you can come first, second and third in the same comp ?

Yes, if you played on the 3 days. Haven't seen it happen but I have seen one young lad win and also get 3rd recently

Russman

denisoc16 wrote: »

Nope, we're the same. If the same comp is on Friday, Saturday & Sunday then I can enter on all three days in the same comp.

That sounds like a strange arrangement. Can you be first, second and third ? (seriously)

What if you do a score on the first day ? Do you cut yourself based on the SSS on the card or is a CSS worked out for each day ? Can you get 0.1 on Friday to play off a shot higher on Saturday ? Can you win with a Friday score and get two 0.1s back on Sat & Sun to get back some of what you lost ? I'm not having a go at you, it just seems odd.

We have separate comps on Sat & Sun, but there's a Saturday coming up soon where they're going to open the comp for two hours on the Friday but have said that anyone who plays on the Friday afternoon casually can't enter the comp on the Saturday. It seems they've said if you tee off on the Friday before the "Saturday" comp time starts, you're ok though........odd.

Russman

denisoc16 wrote: »

Yes, if you played on the 3 days. Haven't seen it happen but I have seen one young lad win and also get 3rd recently

Now that's mad Ted !!

Miley Byrne

Russman wrote: »

That sounds like a strange arrangement. Can you be first, second and third ? (seriously)

What if you do a score on the first day ? Do you cut yourself based on the SSS on the card or is a CSS worked out for each day ? Can you get 0.1 on Friday to play off a shot higher on Saturday ? Can you win with a Friday score and get two 0.1s back on Sat & Sun to get back some of what you lost ? I'm not having a go at you, it just seems odd.

We have separate comps on Sat & Sun, but there's a Saturday coming up soon where they're going to open the comp for two hours on the Friday but have said that anyone who plays on the Friday afternoon casually can't enter the comp on the Saturday. It seems they've said if you tee off on the Friday before the "Saturday" comp time starts, you're ok though........odd.

I just assumed that it was the same in every club. Obviously not. But to answer your question... If I have a score on the Friday evening after work in the Comp and I also intend playing on the Saturday morning then 99% of the time my handicap will have adjusted on golfnet when I check it in the morning. If not, I treat it like an away score and do my best to find out the CSS for the Friday, before I tee off the following morning. And before someone asks, no I don't add the .1 if it hasn't been added on Golfnet!!!!

Miley Byrne

Russman wrote: »

Now that's mad Ted !!

I suppose it is now that I think about it but I will say that looking at the names on the timesheet every week I would guess that 30-40% of those that play in the Comp on the Sunday would have played on the Saturday. Now it is rare that the Comp would run over 3 days. Normally we would have a Friday comp and then a separate weekend comp run over Saturday & Sunday

GreeBo

denisoc16 wrote: »

Yes, if you played on the 3 days. Haven't seen it happen but I have seen one young lad win and also get 3rd recently

Could you play twice on a Saturday if you wanted to?

hades

GreeBo wrote: »

Could you play twice on a Saturday if you wanted to?

I've done this, but it was a non counting competition, so i'm not sure how it would work when things count.

Miley Byrne

GreeBo wrote: »

Could you play twice on a Saturday if you wanted to?

No, I don't think so but I've never done it so couldn't be sure.

Miley Byrne

Domo86 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

Ilik Urgee

.

Domo86

Post deleted

GreeBo

hang on a sec...something just occurred to me.
whats the difference between practicing on the course the day before a comp and playing a comp on a friday and then playing the same comp on a Saturday?

I assume the flags, tees are in the same positions across all the days?

Makes no sense to me...!

Domo86

denisoc16 wrote: »

Meaning?:rolleyes:

Read your own posts Denisoc:rolleyes:

Miley Byrne

GreeBo wrote: »

hang on a sec...something just occurred to me.
whats the difference between practicing on the course the day before a comp and playing a comp on a friday and then playing the same comp on a Saturday?

I assume the flags, tees are in the same positions across all the days?

Makes no sense to me...!

I presume in the bolded bit you mean practicing on a Friday while the comp is on and then playing in the comp on the same course on the Saturday?

Domo86

The impact either way on handicaps is concerning

Assuming its a 3 day comp can a player get 3 x 0.1's back in a weekend?

Can a player potentially get 3 cuts in a weekend playing the same course set up?

Miley Byrne

Domo86 wrote: »

The impact either way on handicaps is concerning

Assuming its a 3 day comp can a player get 3 x 0.1's back in a weekend?

Can a player potentially get 3 cuts in a weekend playing the same course set up?

I guess yes is the answer to both. I don't see the problem in that scenario though. Like, you could get 3 .1s if you played 3 opens on different courses so it's not like you couldn't otherwise get them. Or get cut 3 times....

It's the practicing part of it that is the problem I'd imagine

GreeBo

denisoc16 wrote: »

I presume in the bolded bit you mean practicing on a Friday while the comp is on and then playing in the comp on the same course on the Saturday?

I guess my point is whats the difference between practicing and playing a comp on the same course?

It seems that under the rules, playing a practice round in advance of your comp is not allowed, but if you happen to enter another comp (or even the same comp!) you are free to play the same course before your "real" comp round.

Nothing to stop someone entering on the friday & saturday taking practice putts, shots etc, get themselves a handy 0.2 and then play the same course on the sunday, know all the pin positions, clubs etc and have the benefit of an extra 0.2 shots?

compared to someone having a practice round/few holes the day before a comp with an alternate day, it seems bizarre to me that the first example is ok, but the second is against the rules.

GreeBo

denisoc16 wrote: »

I guess yes is the answer to both. I don't see the problem in that scenario though. Like, you could get 3 .1s if you played 3 opens on different courses so it's not like you couldn't otherwise get them. Or get cut 3 times....

It's the practicing part of it that is the problem I'd imagine

But whats the difference between practicing and playing a competitive round?