Limerick 2030 Economic Plan

Vanquished

zulutango wrote: »

Has the Derelict Sites Act ever actually been used in Limerick to CPO a site?

You'd need to ask the City Council that.

I do recall an enforcement order was served on the owner of that concrete skeleton near the milk market a few years back but nothing has actually happened.:rolleyes: It was meant to have been demolished!

I would imagine putting the wheels in motion as regards that piece of legislation could well be a bureaucratic, legal and administrative nightmare!

MrLaurel

Vanquished wrote: »

You do realise Dunnes closed that store along with the one on O'Connell Street over 5 years ago? It's been empty and decaying ever since!

As has been stated I'm sure the city could move to acquire the site compulsorily under the Derelict Sites Act.

Whats derelict about the Dunnes Stores buildings? They're ugly, they're empty but they're not derelict.
Their value, as in line with most properties are probably down 70% from the absolute height so if a half decent offer from the Council was put to Dunnes using Regeneration monies as was done in the Opera Centre, then I'm sure the Sarsfield Store could be bought at a decent price.

But have no doubts, they will not be acquired as derelict sites.

Vanquished

MrLaurel wrote: »

Whats derelict about the Dunnes Stores buildings? They're ugly, they're empty but they're not derelict.
Their value, as in line with most properties are probably down 70% from the absolute height so if a half decent offer from the Council was put to Dunnes using Regeneration monies as was done in the Opera Centre, then I'm sure the Sarsfield Store could be bought at a decent price.

But have no doubts, they will not be acquired as derelict sites.

We're specifically talking about the Sarsfield Street property here.

It doesn't need to be falling on to the street in order to be classified as "derelict" under the provisions of the legislation.

Derelict Sites Act, 1990


3.—In this section “derelict site” means any land (in this section referred to as “the land in question”) which detracts, or is likely to detract, to a material degree from the amenity, character or appearance of land in the neighbourhood of the land in question because of —

(a) the existence on the land in question of structures which are in a ruinous, derelict or dangerous condition, or


(b) the neglected, unsightly or objectionable condition of the land or any structures on the land in question, or


(c) the presence, deposit or collection on the land in question of any litter, rubbish, debris or waste, except where the presence, deposit or collection of such litter, rubbish, debris or waste results from the exercise of a right conferred by statute or by common law.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0014/

That said the quickest and most straight forward method of acquiring this site would probably still be to just buy it off Dunnes!

ShaneMc2012

Vanquished wrote: »

We're specifically talking about the Sarsfield Street property here.

It doesn't need to be falling on to the street in order to be classified as "derelict" under the provisions of the legislation.

That said the quickest and most straight forward method of acquiring this site would probably still be to just buy it off Dunnes!

I'm surprised the council haven't offered to buy it before, I couldn't imagine it being of any use to Dunnes anyway, especially with the decline in property prices.

zulutango

ShaneMc2012 wrote: »

I'm surprised the council haven't offered to buy it before, I couldn't imagine it being of any use to Dunnes anyway, especially with the decline in property prices.

They're the poorest local authority in the country (mainly due to the boundary issue so that's about to change). They haven't been particularly well managed in the past either, but I believe that is changing too.

Poxyshamrock

zulutango wrote: »

They're the poorest local authority in the country (mainly due to the boundary issue so that's about to change). They haven't been particularly well managed in the past either, but I believe that is changing too.

They couldn't be poorer than Sligo County Council. They can't even afford to put up Christmas lights this year.

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=28112

Exile on Grafton St.

A few high profile properties in the City Centre have been sold. The former Bitter End pub is now to be turned into two shop units.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/boost-for-limerick-as-vacant-properties-sold-for-5m-1-5714251

1huge1

Exile on Grafton St. wrote: »

A few high profile properties in the City Centre have been sold. The former Bitter End pub is now to be turned into two shop units.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/boost-for-limerick-as-vacant-properties-sold-for-5m-1-5714251

Very positive article, great to see.

phog

Exile on Grafton St. wrote: »

A few high profile properties in the City Centre have been sold. The former Bitter End pub is now to be turned into two shop units.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/boost-for-limerick-as-vacant-properties-sold-for-5m-1-5714251

Rumour is that Jury's is to be opened as a 4* hotel.

jmch81

phog wrote: »

Rumour is that Jury's is to be opened as a 4* hotel.

Would be nice if it was done up.

pigtown

phog wrote: »

Rumour is that Jury's is to be opened as a 4* hotel.

God I hope not. There is definitely a need for a cheap city centre hotel in Limerick. I heard there was a posibility the bar and restaurant could be moved up from the basement though which would be no harm.

phog

jmch81 wrote: »

Would be nice if it was done up.

If it hopes to sell itself as a 4* then it will most certainly need a facelift.

pigtown wrote: »

God I hope not. There is definitely a need for a cheap city centre hotel in Limerick. I heard there was a posibility the bar and restaurant could be moved up from the basement though which would be no harm.

I would have thought so too but someone must have done the sums and felt there's a business case for the change.

MrJones2013

The public transport system here is pretty poor, infrequent and unreliable to be honest.

Would the implementation of 'express' bus routes serving the 3 main suburban areas of the city directly in to the city centre, stopping intermittently at the busiest stops help the frequency and reliability of the bus service here?

My own opinion is that the 3 main suburban areas of the city are:

Raheen/Dooradoyle area, UL/Castletroy/Annacotty area and Moyross/Ballynanty/Caherdavin area.

A sample bus line could be Annacotty - City centre with stops as follows:

-Finnegans Roundabout (this could be a potential park and ride facility)
-Annacotty
-National Technology Park (this could also be a potential park and ride facility)
-UL (Front Gate)
-Parkway Shopping Centre
-LIT Campus Clare Street
-City Centre

This is just something off the top of my head and a suggestion but a bus stopping every 200m or so and only one or two people getting on/off at each stop is a bit crazy. I think people would be willing to walk an extra 200m and get in to the city centre quicker rather than get a bus that stops too much and takes too long.

I personally would rather get the bus in to town instead of driving but when the service is so unreliable you are left with no other choice. There is a lot of work being done at the moment to improve the service which is great to see. The old bus routes could still be run and maybe a potential express route run at peak times?

Another suggestion further down the line could be to run these 3 main routes with smaller shuttle buses serving the local communities?

The city centre has massive potential and the plans for this Limerick 2030 are impressive and hopefully they will be implemented for a better Limerick in the future.

Mc Love

You would need to add in a bus route or alter that one for the childers road as far as the tipp roundabout I would think

MrJones2013

Mc Love wrote: »

You would need to add in a bus route or alter that one for the childers road as far as the tipp roundabout I would think

True, this is just something going around in my head to be honest and I just wanted to discuss it with like minded people!

You could look at a link route between the Raheen to city route and the Annacotty to city route running the length of the Childers road too which could make it easier and quicker to commute between the Raheen side of the city and the Annacotty side of the city and visa versa.

You could also justify an express route from the Wesbury/Corbally side of the city to the city centre.

I just think that there is a massive room for improvement in the public transport within the city as a whole.

Mc Love

I like your thinking in that instead of having buses going from one side of the city to the other, they would be better served having a number of buses or even shuttles between routes!

MrJones2013

Mc Love wrote: »

I like your thinking in that instead of having buses going from one side of the city to the other, they would be better served having a number of buses or even shuttles between routes!

Yeah, in my opinion, if you have lines/routes serving the main populated areas of the city as a direct route in and out of the city centre it would be much easier for the commuter and much easier for Bus Eireann to manage. The current bus routes are a mess to be honest, if you look at this link (http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360855300-Limerick-City-Map.pdf) I don't see the point for example of a bus running from Raheen in to the city centre and then out to UL.

Why not for example have a route from Raheen in to the city centre and back out and a central depot or area, like the current area at Sarsfield Street, where the main lines all converge and the commuter can make a connection there to one of the 2 or 3 other designated main routes? You could then look at a fare card or a single charge with a time limit on it so if for example you are out in UL and you want to get to Thomond Park you could jump on a bus in to the City Centre depot and connect there on to the Moyross/Ballynanty route and have, just say, a 2 hour window from when you buy your ticket to when it expires so you don't have to pay a double fee.

I understand that a lot of planning would have to go in to something like this in order to get the connection times in sync and so on but if they are trying to improve the city they need to make it more accessible otherwise people will just jump in the car and go to a shopping centre or retail park because it's the easier and quicker option.

MrJones2013

Sorry this link!

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360855300-Limerick-City-Map.pdf

1huge1

I thought the whole having the Raheen bus that goes through the city centre and on to Castletroy was a new thing.

Up until a year or two ago, you used to have to change in the city centre.

Exile on Grafton St.

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Yeah, in my opinion, if you have lines/routes serving the main populated areas of the city as a direct route in and out of the city centre it would be much easier for the commuter and much easier for Bus Eireann to manage. The current bus routes are a mess to be honest, if you look at this link (http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360855300-Limerick-City-Map.pdf) I don't see the point for example of a bus running from Raheen in to the city centre and then out to UL.

Why not for example have a route from Raheen in to the city centre and back out and a central depot or area, like the current area at Sarsfield Street, where the main lines all converge and the commuter can make a connection there to one of the 2 or 3 other designated main routes? You could then look at a fare card or a single charge with a time limit on it so if for example you are out in UL and you want to get to Thomond Park you could jump on a bus in to the City Centre depot and connect there on to the Moyross/Ballynanty route and have, just say, a 2 hour window from when you buy your ticket to when it expires so you don't have to pay a double fee.

I understand that a lot of planning would have to go in to something like this in order to get the connection times in sync and so on but if they are trying to improve the city they need to make it more accessible otherwise people will just jump in the car and go to a shopping centre or retail park because it's the easier and quicker option.

I worked in a small city in Denmark and all the commuter buses had to pass through the local bus/train station, making the city much more accessible for locals/visitors. Perhaps this is what they have in mind in the 2030 Economic Plan when they wrote about Colbert Station becoming a public transport interchange. Hard to know, since the report was so vague on what they meant by public transport interchange:(.

I like your thinking on public transport for Limerick, but I would still have the buses go across the city rather than stop at the city centre and turnaround. I still remember reading years ago, that each time commuters change trains/buses/trams, etc., the number of commuters using the train/bus/tram falls by 40%.

MrJones2013

Exile on Grafton St. wrote: »

I worked in a small city in Denmark and all the commuter buses had to pass through the local bus/train station, making the city much more accessible for locals/visitors. Perhaps this is what they have in mind in the 2030 Economic Plan when they wrote about Colbert Station becoming a public transport interchange. Hard to know, since the report was so vague on what they meant by public transport interchange:(.

I like your thinking on public transport for Limerick, but I would still have the buses go across the city rather than stop at the city centre and turnaround. I still remember reading years ago, that each time commuters change trains/buses/trams, etc., the number of commuters using the train/bus/tram falls by 40.

That's true, every change someone would have to make would make it seem less appealing but if the timings were synced, transfer times kept to a minimum (I know this is an extremely difficult thing to manage) and all routes converging in a central area (so you don't have to get off at William Street and have 3 minutes get to Henry Street if you are travelling from UL to LIT for example), I personally feel that this would improve the image of the local public transport system. I remember waiting for a bus to LIT and at times you could be waiting 45 minutes to an hour and then 2 would arrive, sounds like a cliché but it's true!

I'm also of the opinion that an 'express route' looping in and out of the city from each of the 3 or 4 densely populated areas, perhaps at peak times initially, would improve the service and make the routes more manageable and easier to monitor. Again just my opinion

Mc Love

Shuttle buses would be a good solution particularly for the size of the city we have. Short runs that could bring you to the next line etc

MrJones2013

Mc Love wrote: »

Shuttle buses would be a good solution particularly for the size of the city we have. Short runs that could bring you to the next line etc

Yeah and if these plans for Limerick 2030 are implemented it will be a city that will hopefully be growing, the city has massive potential and hopefully it will fulfill it's potential.

kilburn

So how exactly would you get an express bus from Westbury into the City at peak traffic?

Poxyshamrock

Hopefully things like this won't be allowed under the Limerick 2030 plan.

Demolition of Country Club Bar and construction of a mixed use development consisting of 1 no. 2 storey block and 1 no. 3 storey block with the following overall accommodation; 120sqm of public bar space and associated service accommodation; 1136sqm of commercial space with 800sqm (units 1-5 inclusive of Bank) for commercial retail and 336sqm (units 6-9) for commercial non-retail; 7 no. 2 bedroom duplex apartments and 5 no. single storey 2 bedroom apartments, external storage areas; associated car parking & deliveries areas; new entrance location; sewage treatment plant & all associated site works

Surely the area is already well served by the Jetland and Woodview Centres.

MrJones2013

kilburn wrote: »

So how exactly would you get an express bus from Westbury into the City at peak traffic?

To be honest I think this would be the most difficult area of the city to do such a route which is probably why I hadn't included it in my original post!

It's a while since I was over on that side of the city but for an express route to be feasible I'd imagine you'd have to look in to the possibility of widening the road from outside St. Munchins College as far as the traffic lights at the Mill road and again around the College Park section of the Corbally Road to allow for bus lanes, these seem to be the only two sections on the Corbally Road that would allow this as far as I can see. In order to avoid the inevitable bottleneck that would limit a bus lane at Bridge Street, you could look at the route going over the new bridge at the Island Road and merging with the possible Annacotty route along Charlotte's Quay.....again just my opinion !

Cookiemunster

Well as expected Dunnes have told the council to get lost. Council is planning to rezone Sarsfield St. as non retail.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/planning/limerick-city-council-set-to-block-retail-at-old-dunnes-stores-location-1-5731592

Exile on Grafton St.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Well as expected Dunnes have told the council to get lost. Council is planning to rezone Sarsfield St. as non retail.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/planning/limerick-city-council-set-to-block-retail-at-old-dunnes-stores-location-1-5731592

Yeah, that doesn't look very promising. But if you saw how Dunnes wouldn't allow anyone to use their buildings on South Georges Street in Dublin, you wouldn't be surprised. I can see this dragging on for a while.

On a different note, here's an article about UL's plans for expansion, which includes the City Centre.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/student-village-in-limerick-is-part-of-224m-ul-plan-1-5731644

I know its a controversial issue in the past on Boards.ie, but I have to say I'm happy that the three major colleges are looking at injecting some activity into the City Centre.

Poxyshamrock

Looking forward to that announcement on Monday.

It should be a good day for Limerick.

sleepyman

Exile on Grafton St. wrote: »

Yeah, that doesn't look very promising. But if you saw how Dunnes wouldn't allow anyone to use their buildings on South Georges Street in Dublin, you wouldn't be surprised. I can see this dragging on for a while.

On a different note, here's an article about UL's plans for expansion, which includes the City Centre.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/student-village-in-limerick-is-part-of-224m-ul-plan-1-5731644

I know its a controversial issue in the past on Boards.ie, but I have to say I'm happy that the three major colleges are looking at injecting some activity into the City Centre.

I assume they'l just have to cough up & buy the site from Dunnes.They hardly thought they were just going to give it to them for free!!