Seller refusing to send off Registration Cert

Hi guys, wondering if anyone can give some advice on this awkward situation (Sorry about it being such a long read, just skip down to the last paragraph if you're lazy!)

I sold my car privately about 4 months ago to an over enthused buyer who wanted the car the minute he saw it. However, I told him that he would have to wait a day or two until a sensor was replaced. The following morning the job was done and the buyer had his mechanic checked the car, test drove it again and was delighted, agreed and price and signed the cert.

A week later I got a call from him complaining that he got a puncture and the window wouldn't close. I decided the best thing to do was help the new owner some bit so I bought a new battery for the car and had it fitted at my expense and that fixed the window problem as battery was low.

Another week later and he was complaining about a stiff door handle and that it wouldn't open...brought the car to me (the door was opening fine but the handle was a bit loose) so I had to take the door apart and adjust the handle which took a few hours (again at no expense to the new owner)

After owning the car for 4 weeks the new owner rang saying the car had stopped dead and was not happy. I travelled 60 miles on my day off to tow the car back to get it looked at. Turns out he had over filled it with oil but the engine was running. Had it checked and repaired but the owner wanted his money back.

After an hour on the phone debating we agreed that I would buy the car back at a reduced price (only 200e) for the use of the car, the tire that wasn't replaced by him, significant kerbing to the alloy, valeting and the extra work i had to do. It was a very fair price for him so that day I withdraw the cash and paid his wife-who was incredibly reluctant to count the cash in front of me. Once counted she left and that was the end of it...or so I thought.

He's now demanding money off me to release the cert and this has been going on 3 months now. I tried asking the Gardaí but they don't want to know about it. I contacted the department of transport and filled in a statutory declaration which they said replied saying the registered owner is disputing the ownership so can't help.

So what's the next step? Has anyone else been in a somewhat similar situation?
Thanks for reading

Henry Ford III

Are you a dealer or private seller OP?

Supergurrier

Jesus you have more patience than me.

He complained about a puncture haha I would have ate him over the phone. Especially on what sounds like a 500e car

I'm a private seller. Car was 3k!

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

This sounds remarkably like a situation off of Judge Judy.

How much money is he demanding to release the cert? I'd go to a solicitor about this, it sounds like you've been incredibly reasonable with this guy already. Its not like you sold him warranty - many other sellers would have told him to take a long walk off a short plank when he complained that he had a puncture and the battery was low.

Toyotafanboi

i feel really bad for you.

you went out of the way to help the new owner which you didn't have to do which was very sound of you.

you even bought the car back when he damaged it himself through his own negligence. this is probably where you should have drawn the line. you had no obligation to do this and you probably should have told him to swing for it. but hindsight and all that

conor2469

He sounds like a complete clown. You shouldn't have entertained him at all, unless you sold the car with a warranty that is, are you a car dealer?

So basically you paid him the money for the car, but now he is demanding more more than you originally agreed?

It really does
Looking for the E200 that we agreed that I would retain! Yup, no warranty. Too nice for my own good!

Toyotafanboi

if the log book is still in his name i would just fly past a few speed camera vans and maybe up and down the m50 toll a few times for good measure and he won't be long about giving it back.

ba_barabus

Solicitor is the only way forward

godtabh

Its a private sale so you should never have entertained him once the car was sold.

You've learned a lesson now but there you go.

daRobot

So you sold him a car for 3k, and bought it back for 200 euro some time later even though it was a private sale?

No offence, but what were you thinking :eek:

doyle61

Ild get my Solicitor to send a letter and theres no outcome on his part after 2 weeks ild then go small claims court

deccurley

deccurley wrote: »

This sounds remarkably like a situation off of Judge Judy.

How much money is he demanding to release the cert? I'd go to a solicitor about this, it sounds like you've been incredibly reasonable with this guy already. Its not like you sold him warranty - many other sellers would have told him to take a long walk off a short plank when he complained that he had a puncture and the battery was low.

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

if the log book is still in his name i would just fly past a few speed camera vans and maybe up and down the m50 toll a few times for good measure and he won't be long about giving it back.

I was thinking about just parking it up for a few days in the town centre and it's out of tax now! I wouldn't blaze passed a few speed cameras because I'll be breaking the law! Plus on the fine it gives an option to state someone else was driving...

I was really hoping to avoid solicitors. Just so sick of it!

Mycroft H

Can you just not get this filled out.

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/MotorTax/Documents/STATUTORY%20DECLARATION.pdf

Public Notary office should do it for free.

Get the form signed. Ignore all telephone calls from the gob****e.

ba_barabus

Just spotted that he wants 200e.

TBH if you get a solicitor involved it will most likely quickly end up costing you 200e.

If it's going to be a great big torn in your side I'd nearly just pay him to shut him up and to get it all sorted.

After that put it down to experience

Nemeses

Jeez, Some people really do the extreme.

You were too nice for your own good - unfortunately, It is still great that there are decent human beings out there which puts my faith back in the human race.

However, lesson learnt I hope. I would have told him to feck off the minute he drove the car away... deal done, brought as seen etc

Now in regards to what the other poster said - I would prob do the same, if you are based in Cork city - Drive to limerick and back - good few speed cams on that road

In regards to your man - how much is he looking for the Log book? Did you get a chance to sign it?

daRobot

daRobot wrote: »

So you sold him a car for 3k, and bought it back for 200 euro some time later even though it was a private sale?

No offence, but what were you thinking :eek:

I bought it back for e200 LESS! It would be a bargain if it was only E200...
I really don't know...He was very aggressive on the phone the morning we agreed on the price, threatened me with court, kept saying I was a crook and dishonest, told me his family were all solicitors and he knew the law...I know, looking back i'm kicking myself for giving in but I just wanted to avoid situations like this arising!!

Supergurrier

Always the nice guy in life that gets looked over and walked on.

Live and learn OP

Nemeses

one77 wrote: »

I bought it back for e200 LESS! It would be a bargain if it was only E200...
I really don't know...He was very aggressive on the phone the morning we agreed on the price, threatened me with court, kept saying I was a crook and dishonest, told me his family were all solicitors and he knew the law...I know, looking back i'm kicking myself for giving in but I just wanted to avoid situations like this arising!!

Send him a solicitors letter - see how much of the law he claims to know..

BX 19

BX 19 wrote: »

Can you just not get this filled out.

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/MotorTax/Documents/STATUTORY%20DECLARATION.pdf

Public Notary office should do it for free.

Get the form signed. Ignore all telephone calls from the gob****e.

Already did that and got he letter back from Shannon stating "the current owner has responded indicating that the disposal of the vehicle to another person was not authorised, as a result, your details have not been recorded as the new registered owner"

I would rather pay the solicitor at this stage as a matter of principle

Start driving through the m50 tolls and park it up a few places, that'll sort him out

ba_barabus

one77 wrote: »

He was very aggressive on the phone the morning we agreed on the price, threatened me with court, kept saying I was a crook and dishonest, told me his family were all solicitors and he knew the law.!

I've yet to be taken to court by anyone who has threatened to do so.

It's the ones who don't tell you that you need to be careful of

BTW don't drive past speed cameras as you could end up with the points. A parking fine should suffice.....but I'd nearly just pay him to have it over.

Marcusm

If he took the money from you without an intention to send off the reg cert, that's amounting to fraud and the guards should get involved. Failing to complete a genuine sale is a civil matter, acting deceptively is a criminal one.

Nemeses

one77 wrote: »

Already did that and got he letter back from Shannon stating "the current owner has responded indicating that the disposal of the vehicle to another person was not authorised, as a result, your details have not been recorded as the new registered owner"

I would rather pay the solicitor at this stage as a matter of principle

Jesus , thats dangerous - Your man could turn around and say you've stolen the car... or report the car is stolen..

Mycroft H

bluewolf wrote: »

Start driving through the m50 tolls and park it up a few places, that'll sort him out

Well then this is the best option.

BX 19

BX 19 wrote: »

Well then this is the best option.

Is there any come back down the line for those fine to end up on my doorstep??

Supergurrier

Marcusm wrote: »

If he took the money from you without an intention to send off the reg cert, that's amounting to fraud and the guards should get involved. Failing to complete a genuine sale is a civil matter, acting deceptively is a criminal one.

Exactly he doesn't own the logbook so he is illegally withholding an official document and trying to fraudulently take money from you to release it

corktina

jeez what a chancer....tell him to eff off and get a new taxbook issued

godtabh

one77 wrote: »

I bought it back for e200 LESS! It would be a bargain if it was only E200...
I really don't know...He was very aggressive on the phone the morning we agreed on the price, threatened me with court, kept saying I was a crook and dishonest, told me his family were all solicitors and he knew the law...I know, looking back i'm kicking myself for giving in but I just wanted to avoid situations like this arising!!

so the cert for €200 means he is fully repaid? No offence but he saw you coming a mile away

mgbgt1978

"jeez what a chancer....tell him to eff off and get a new taxbook issued"

em....he tried that Corkie. got nowhere.

Supergurrier

Supergurrier wrote: »

Exactly he doesn't own the logbook so he is illegally withholding an official document and trying to fraudulently take money from you to release it

I tried quoting that one to the Gardaí a few weeks back and I was told they won't have anything to do with private sales...

Supergurrier

one77 wrote: »

I tried quoting that one to the Gardaí a few weeks back and I was told they won't have anything to do with private sales...

You need a proffesional liar then

Nemeses

one77 wrote: »

I tried quoting that one to the Gardaí a few weeks back and I was told they won't have anything to do with private sales...

Try the guards again or speak to one of the senior staff there. Something has to be done. Or else, Anyone could sell a car and not give the log book without any repercussions.

Nemeses

Nemeses wrote: »

Try the guards again or speak to one of the senior staff there. Something has to be done. Or else, Anyone could sell a car and not give the log book without any repercussions.

I might just do that now, then park in town for a few hours with no ticket:cool:

antodeco

Could you not report the reg cert as stolen? Im assuming he no longer has his insurance on it?

ba_barabus

one77 wrote: »

I might just do that now, then park in town for a few hours with no ticket:cool:

Do you have insurance?

You don't technically own the car to be able to insure it.......

antodeco

antodeco wrote: »

Could you not report the reg cert as stolen? Im assuming he no longer has his insurance on it?

I think to report it stolen it must be in my name first? anyway don't want to making things more complicated especially after Shannon rejecting the statutory declaration

antodeco

ba_barabus wrote: »

Do you have insurance?

You don't technically own the car to be able to insure it.......

If he has Open drive he can!

mitosis

Pay the money to the pryck. Take it as a lesson learned. The worry alone has to be worth €200

mgbgt1978

I think 'captain slow IRL' on here had a similar problem a while back. Not sure what the outcome was but you could PM him.
Or he may even be reading this.

ba_barabus

ba_barabus wrote: »

Do you have insurance?

You don't technically own the car to be able to insure it.......

I am insured as I have open drive anyway and I'm not driving the car much, maybe one day every 2-3 weeks (hence why I was selling it!!)

I said that to the Garda the last time I was in the station-technically if I was involved in a collision I may not be covered as well as being prevented from taxing the car. She replied "Thats a hypothetical situation, we don't deal with those"

Nemeses

one77 wrote: »

I might just do that now, then park in town for a few hours with no ticket:cool:

Better still, Look to speak with The Traffic Corp crew.. I think they would be able to advise a lot better than the standard guard - No offence to the standard Guard but these guys ...

well, I''m scared to meet them on the road or get stopped by them. They mean business.

mgbgt1978

antodeco wrote: »

If he has Open drive he can!

Only with the owner's permission.....
Of course as he is now the owner (Irish law states that 'the person named on the log book or VLC may or may not be the owner of the vehicle') he would have to insure it himself.

ba_barabus

one77 wrote: »

I am insured as I have open drive anyway

Don't you need to have the owners permission......

I'd contact your insurer and ask.

No point in ending up in more trouble

renofan

one77 wrote: »

I bought it back for e200 LESS! It would be a bargain if it was only E200...
I really don't know...He was very aggressive on the phone the morning we agreed on the price, threatened me with court, kept saying I was a crook and dishonest, told me his family were all solicitors and he knew the law...I know, looking back i'm kicking myself for giving in but I just wanted to avoid situations like this arising!!

Believe me, no situation would have arisen. Nothing you can do now but I have to say it was stupid dealing with him. You should have told him day one to take a short walk off the edge of a cliff. Apply for a new cert and if he rings tell him to get his solicitor contact you and not to contact you again. Hopefully you'll have learnt a lesson out of all this! Not a nice situation to be in but once a private sale is done the buyer has no comeback.

Marcusm

one77 wrote: »

I tried quoting that one to the Gardaí a few weeks back and I was told they won't have anything to do with private sales...

Ask the guard if he has heard of the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation and how they manage to exist. This is not a case fr them, however, if the other person had no intention to permit the reregistration of the car, they are committing an offence under s6 Theft and Fraud Offences Act 2001, ie causing a loss to another by deception (deliberately withholding the registration document with the intention to cause you loss). This is a matter for the Gardai.

Caliden

"Sold as seen", I honestly don't know what was going through your head.

Why?? I mean why?

Caliden

Caliden wrote: »

"Sold as seen", I honestly don't know what was going through your head.

Why?? I mean why?

I know I felt bad at the start over the battery (I was genuinely unaware that it was weak!)
I said that on the phone to him, it was sold as seen, off a private ad on donedeal, but the prick just kept at it. I thought at least by buying the car back I wouldn't be pestered and harassed and could easily sell the car on again. But no...some people...why bother trying to be genuine and honest anymore, people are just gonna take advantage-that's what I've learnt from this!

Toyotafanboi

sorry, have to ask what car this is.

Toyotafanboi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

sorry, have to ask what car this is.

It's an A4