Am I making myself Unemployable in IT?

Unemployable

Hi,
My background:

• Arts degree

• MSc software design and development (basically a computer programming catch up course after wasting 3 years doing an arts degree)2.2

• 18 months of unemployment because of laziness

• Currently in the middle of an internship

Dilemma:
For a variety reasons Id rather not go in to Id like to go do a hdip in economics this year(one of those reasons is not that I necessarily want to get out of IT) but am worried Ill scare off potential IT employers with my odd initial background, period of unemployment and unrelated recent course. The only thing I think I have going for me is that Ill have an internship with what I suspect will be a good reference.

Id like if some of you who know the industry could tell me if Im making myself unemployable(how much of a mistake Im making).

Thanks

PS If this is in the wrong thread please tell me

The Corinthian

Following up a BA (or practically any other primary degree) with an IT qualification is par for the course. I went down this road myself, as have many others - best developer I have ever known did his original degree in English literature.

The 18 months with your thumb in your ass may be an issue though. Working in your favour is that given the current economic situation being unemployed for a while is forgiveable at present, so hopefully it shouldn't act too much against you. That you're doing something now is more important.

Given this, and for future reference, never be completely unemployed. Always have something going on during those periods that you can point to; freelance work, contributions to open source development, writing of technical articles, release an app or two and so on. It shows your initiative and independence, dispels suspicions of sloth and it also means that you're gaining experience, even while not officially employed.

My advice is not to worry too much about it. More important is that you start looking for a full time position now and take it, even if it means your internship is cut short. Within a few years, as long as you remain employed throughout (short gaps are OK), no one will care that you had an 18 month stint on the scratcher at the start of your career.

Neon_Lights

I currently have an MSc in E-commerce and an undergrad in Accounting and Finance(specialising in IT and E-Commerce), I have learned and developed MySQL databases for the backend of sites and application time and am good at excel in terms of macros and making data models, and also performing statiscal analysis using SPSS. I am learning other languages such as R by myself and at the moment thankfully I am employed and it is effectively half sales and half a data analyst role. I am also going for the MCSE in Business Intelligence. No career gaps.

However heres the situation, I am looking for a more intensive business analyst role or a data analyst role (which quite a lot of businesses are screaming for I may add) and employers cant seem to put two and two together that I would fit the position well. Its ridiculous... Whats a guy gotta do? Its not as if I don't know my stuff or aren't there or there abouts and any systems, languages or protocols which I don't know I stated I am willing to learn. I am also historically good at problem solving, maths and management subjects. Why can't employers put two and two together?

Soz for the rant but its a frustrating situation.... people are drowning in data, thursting for insight.

Unemployable

Thank you very much for the replies but Im particularly curious about how much damage Id be doing by doing a hdip in economics

Neon_Lights

Well it depends what you want to do... there has to be a reason for going for a hdip in economics... how will it push your career forward?

Phoebas

Unemployable wrote: »

Thank you very much for the replies but Im particularly curious about how much damage Id be doing by doing a hdip in economics

It would read to me as someone who isn't really into IT and is trying to get into something else. I'd be put off by it.

SalteeDog

I agree with previous poster. Is it a full time course? If so, then I view it as a negative. And it will be impossible to downplay on your CV.

If it's part time, then not necessarily a negative as long as you position it as proof of your belief in 'life long learning' etc.

fergalr

Unemployable wrote: »

Hi,
My background:

• Arts degree

• MSc software design and development (basically a computer programming catch up course after wasting 3 years doing an arts degree)2.2

• 18 months of unemployment because of laziness

• Currently in the middle of an internship

Dilemma:
For a variety reasons Id rather not go in to Id like to go do a hdip in economics this year(one of those reasons is not that I necessarily want to get out of IT) but am worried Ill scare off potential IT employers with my odd initial background, period of unemployment and unrelated recent course. The only thing I think I have going for me is that Ill have an internship with what I suspect will be a good reference.

Id like if some of you who know the industry could tell me if Im making myself unemployable(how much of a mistake Im making).

Thanks

PS If this is in the wrong thread please tell me

I did a technical PhD.

Now, Im not currently looking for work, but:

- For certain jobs, some employers would think the PhD was a big asset.

- Some (unenlightened? old fashioned? hard-nosed? realistic?) others would consider it a liability.

Now, I might not want to work for those who'd consider it a liability. We're fortunate that in tech, at the moment, we have options.

But the point is that my choice will be an asset in some peoples minds, but a liability in others.

For a variety reasons Id rather not go in to Id like to go do a hdip in economics this year(one of those reasons is not that I necessarily want to get out of IT) but am worried Ill scare off potential IT employers with my odd initial background, period of unemployment and unrelated recent course.

If you can't give some context on that issue, then I don't think anyone can answer your question.

What sort of tech jobs might you want to work in eventually? That's going to be a factor.

Maybe you really want to do economics to get a tech job in a bank. Maybe you want to learn how to reason about optimisation of large systems. Maybe you want to get into financial analytics and think econ would help. Maybe you think it'll make you better able to solve a particular breed of problems you are interested in working on in the future. Maybe you have an intellectual itch you want to scratch.

Or maybe you hope that being an economics teacher would facilitate a lazy lifestyle..!


If I were you, I'd expect to be able to answer questions in an interview about why you did the econ qualification, or explain it in a cover letter. If you don't have good answers, then it might hurt your prospects. Depending on what you want to do. It all depends.

Give more information if you want better answers.

One_More_Mile

Unemployable wrote: »

Hi,
My background:

• Arts degree

• MSc software design and development (basically a computer programming catch up course after wasting 3 years doing an arts degree)2.2

• 18 months of unemployment because of laziness

• Currently in the middle of an internship

PS If this is in the wrong thread please tell me

I would put a positive spin on this, you went travelling in south america, you moved to dubai to mind your sick sister, etc. i.e. anything but you sat on your behind!

Jim2007

Unemployable wrote: »

For a variety reasons Id rather not go in to Id like to go do a hdip in economics this year(one of those reasons is not that I necessarily want to get out of IT) but am worried Ill scare off potential IT employers with my odd initial background, period of unemployment and unrelated recent course.

The only concern I would have is if you have not done at least a few personal projects and kept up to date technology wise during your 18 months unemployment. Techies tend to be always working on something, even if it is only some kind of utility for their own use, if someone told me they had been doing absolutely nothing for 18 months I'd have my doubts about them!

Depending on what you want to do, a qualification in economics could come be very useful as you will have an understanding of commerce and be able to communicate with business people. This could be particularly useful in a BA role or where you are working with business people doing things like financial modelling and so on. And you will have something that will set you apart from many other candidates who come with a degree and an MSc - which due to the economic situation I guess, is becoming very common.

While i have done everything from writing Cobol on mainframes to assembly for various microprocessors, but most of my work (freelance) these days comes from business departments rather than IT departments. Most of the work involves some kind of modelling or simulation type exercise which needs both IT and business knowledge. The good thing is that it is not under pressure from outsourcing because it has to be done on site and there is a high barrier to entry because you need more than an IT background to get involved. BTW, I'm a Chartered Accountant with Big 4 experience among other things.....

Unemployable

Thank you very much for the replies. I dont want to be too specific on a public forum but I have personal reasons to be in a certain part of the country for the next few months so doing a course would be a good way for me to do that. The reason its economics rather than something technical is because Ive recently obtained a bit of an obsession with the subject, feel like I have enough IT knowledge for the moment at least and somewhere in the back of my head I have my eye on some job that combines computer programming and finance but to be honest think that kind of job is probably for people a lot brighter than me and Im enjoying my internship so I dont want to abandon IT. I guess what Im hoping is that there will be IT and econ combined jobs or at least that having qualifications in both will be some kind of asset but my main reasons for doing it are interest and personal circumstances. Given that bit of context, am I being very unwise?

DJjazzyjeff

A business analyst role sounds like it might suit you. Get an oracle cert or two and you should be flying it. Ever do SQL Querying or building databases with Oracle. Business analysts are in high demand.

Networking path - MCSA in Windows Server, CCNA, Linux Comptia +
Programming - MCSD in web developemnt, Java associate.
Databases - MCSA in SQL Server, Few Oracle certs.

Since you having done anything in 18 months you will need to get a cert but I think business analyst is your best bet, mixture of business and IT!!

The Corinthian

Unemployable wrote: »

Thank you very much for the replies. I dont want to be too specific on a public forum but I have personal reasons to be in a certain part of the country for the next few months so doing a course would be a good way for me to do that. The reason its economics rather than something technical is because Ive recently obtained a bit of an obsession with the subject, feel like I have enough IT knowledge for the moment at least and somewhere in the back of my head I have my eye on some job that combines computer programming and finance but to be honest think that kind of job is probably for people a lot brighter than me and Im enjoying my internship so I dont want to abandon IT. I guess what Im hoping is that there will be IT and econ combined jobs or at least that having qualifications in both will be some kind of asset but my main reasons for doing it are interest and personal circumstances. Given that bit of context, am I being very unwise?

Probably. On a CV it makes you look like you're all over the place and lack focus on your chosen career - whatever that may be.

An economics qualification can be useful in IT if you choose to go into financial or banking IT, but I wouldn't overestimate it's importance there either - experience in a financial/banking IT environment is significantly more important there.

As DJjazzyjeff suggested, a BA role may suit you better and an economics qualification would then be of benefit, but you're not trained as a BA and are at this early stage in your IT career probably better off building up a technical background first.

Ultimately you're at a point where you've not yet consolidated your core career (IT) and you're already going off on a tangent. I think this is a mistake; focus.

SalteeDog

A certification or qualification in accounting would carry more worth than a diploma in economics as a far as future prospects for an IT role is concerned.

SalteeDog

Superb article in The Register today that contains many snippets of truth about hiring/firing office politics and career progression in the IT space.

stevenmu

Unemployable wrote: »

Thank you very much for the replies. I dont want to be too specific on a public forum but I have personal reasons to be in a certain part of the country for the next few months so doing a course would be a good way for me to do that. The reason its economics rather than something technical is because Ive recently obtained a bit of an obsession with the subject, feel like I have enough IT knowledge for the moment at least and somewhere in the back of my head I have my eye on some job that combines computer programming and finance but to be honest think that kind of job is probably for people a lot brighter than me and Im enjoying my internship so I dont want to abandon IT. I guess what Im hoping is that there will be IT and econ combined jobs or at least that having qualifications in both will be some kind of asset but my main reasons for doing it are interest and personal circumstances. Given that bit of context, am I being very unwise?

In general, if you just dropped out of working in a technical area to do an Econ course, and then tried to go back to a technical job it would look quite bad. Employers would worry that you will just drop out after a few months again and go off to something else.

But given the context above, I think it could be ok. If you can explain to potential employers that you had to move for a few months for personal reasons, I think most would be understanding of that, and doing a course in the meantime would actually be a positive because it shows you would prefer to do something than to site idle. Something technical would probably be better, but you could explain that away saying you missed registration dates for any technical courses, and wanted to broaden you knowledgebase anyway.

The market for programmers doing pure Economics is probably very small and niche, but Economics should give you a good grounding in statistics and data, and presumably report writing and stuff like that. That could be a big help for Business Intelligence (and possibly "Big Data") which is a hot area at the moment.

If you can tell the right story to sell yourself and spin it the right way, you could definitely make it work for you.

The Corinthian

stevenmu wrote: »

The market for programmers doing pure Economics is probably very small and niche, but Economics should give you a good grounding in statistics and data, and presumably report writing and stuff like that.

Depends on the qualification and course, but generally a fairly basic grounding in stats - more so you understand where it comes from and how it's collected, rather than actually working with it directly. If you're looking to get into BI, then you're better off doing a course that deals with that directly.

An economics qualification, in my experience, may be a tie-breaker, for some jobs, but I've never seen it be much more than that.

Unemployable

Probably should write this on another thread but how much "big data" work is there out there? I did a bit of data mining and machine learning in my masters so Ive kept an eye out for that kind of job when I search jobsites and Ive had a look at the jobs associated with courses in data analysis and my immediate perception is that most of the big data jobs are glamorized database design and development work which Im already qualified in. How wrong am I?

The Corinthian

Not far wrong. You get to wear a suit and present your findings in a PowerPoint presentation too.

fergalr

Big Data is the new oil.


You know whats cool? A BILLION rows.

stevenmu

A lot of Big Data might be like that, but there is some genuinely impressive stuff out there too. For e.g. I can't even begin to imagine how much data the NSA have sitting around :pac:

Jim2007

SalteeDog wrote: »

Superb article in The Register today that contains many snippets of truth about hiring/firing office politics and career progression in the IT space.

Reminds me of all the reasons why I prefer to work here! The first thing you'll be asked here is what percentage you are willing to work - the 80% job is very common here, meaning you are off on Fridays or Mondays.

Overtime is frowned upon, it means either you or your manager is not up to the job and HR will be on the case PDQ. By law here all overtime must be paid at 120% to 150%, depending on the time of the day and it is the responsibility of the business to prevent you from working it, otherwise they have to pay up! OT is also payable to management too. So if you say you are only willing to work 80%, then that really is all you will be working.

Unemployable

Thanks for all the replies, the impression Im getting is that its not a suicidally bad move to do the hdip but it will limit me. Would I realistically be able to spin it as a thirst for knowledge and that the disciplines have some common ground and report writing and blah blah blah?

The Corinthian

Unemployable wrote: »

Would I realistically be able to spin it as a thirst for knowledge and that the disciplines have some common ground and report writing and blah blah blah?

IMHO, no.

fergalr

Unemployable wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, the impression Im getting is that its not a suicidally bad move to do the hdip but it will limit me. Would I realistically be able to spin it as a thirst for knowledge and that the disciplines have some common ground and report writing and blah blah blah?

Is it going to totally kill your career, and stop you having any chance of continuing in tech? Seems unlikely, its pretty hard to commit total career suicide in tech at the moment.

Could the choice make things harder? Yes, it could, particularly in the first few years experience where employers have the least information to go on.

Should you do it? That has to be up to you. Whats your risk tolerance? How much do you want to study econ? Are you willing to pay the cost and potentially have to work harder to land your first job, maybe do more self study, gain more skills and do more projects on your own? Have you got the financial resources to do that? You also have to factor in how good you are at tech already. If you think you'd ace any interview you got, because of all the playing around you do in your own time with cool tech, then thats different than if you think you might be a marginal candidate.

So I wouldn't say it will 'limit you'. You'll find people that have had amazing careers from all sorts of different starts. And hard work and enthusiasm can make up for a lot choices. But it might make it harder at the start, depending on what you try and do, and the start can be when things are already pretty hard.

parc

Unemployable wrote: »

Thank you very much for the replies. I dont want to be too specific on a public forum but I have personal reasons to be in a certain part of the country for the next few months so doing a course would be a good way for me to do that. The reason its economics rather than something technical is because Ive recently obtained a bit of an obsession with the subject, feel like I have enough IT knowledge for the moment at least and somewhere in the back of my head I have my eye on some job that combines computer programming and finance but to be honest think that kind of job is probably for people a lot brighter than me and Im enjoying my internship so I dont want to abandon IT. I guess what Im hoping is that there will be IT and econ combined jobs or at least that having qualifications in both will be some kind of asset but my main reasons for doing it are interest and personal circumstances. Given that bit of context, am I being very unwise?

I'm not too sure about the institution you're doing it in or the course content but economics is a very technical subject nowadays. There's a lot of maths in it - calculus, statistics etc though maybe not in a hdip (is that a pre-university qualification?). What kind of course is it? It it just written economic theory or do you have mathsy stuff in it too?

Personally I don't see how it would put an employer off. As long as you didn't drop the IT work you should be ok

SalteeDog

If you have to do a project as part of the course make sure there's an IT slant to it.

a fat guy

If they were in any way related, then there wouldn't be a problem.

But where are you going to find a job that ties in both of those very specific areas?

As far as job opportunities go, they'll look at you as either someone who used to know their stuff when it comes to I.T. and are now rusty, or someone who only deserves an entry-level econ job.

I just don't see it being feasible to tie those two together.

That's not to say that you can't go for the new degree though, you could just exclude all mentions of I.T. and focus entirely on this new area.

Or you could further your I.T. background.

Decisions, decisions!

louisewalsh23

I'm an IT recruiter and if I got your CV the first thing I would ask is what were you doing for the 18 months? A previous poster has said it but I'd want to hear travelling, freelancing, something! If you said you were just sitting around it doesn't create a good impression. The internship is a good idea, do another one if you can or maybe a job bridge. Opensource stuff looks great on your CV and could explain the gap. You may struggle to get a role due to the lack of commercial IT experience, yes but the market is very good at the moment for developers so you should pick up something if you persevere!

Best of luck with the search :-)

Jim2007

parc wrote: »

There's a lot of maths in it - calculus, statistics etc though maybe not in a hdip (is that a pre-university qualification?).

I think you are referring to Econometrics rather than the general topic of economics.

fergalr

Jim2007 wrote: »

I think you are referring to Econometrics rather than the general topic of economics.

In so far as economics is a science, the empirical measuring of things is kind of an important part of the whole, no?

To put this in the context of the current thread, if you were to manage to do an 'economics' qualification, but skip all the maths and stats (which, stupidly, people sometimes can), then it would be even less benefit for data-analysis/big-data roles.