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Do you have a dog licence?

  • 14-06-2013 10:15am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭


    2 years ago I got a knock at the door which turned out to be the Dog warden looking to see if I had a dog and if so a licence.

    Yes I did and no I didn't, no problem he said, €12.70 on the spot and I had a licence.

    I heard about the Fine going up to €100 last week, I had forgotten to get one last year, do you get reminders and has anyone had a visit recently from the warden?

    Last year 190,000 licences were bought for a dog population estimated around 700,000 probably a lot more.

    So do you have a licence?

    Maybe we could have a poll?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Missyelliot2


    Have a dog - forgot to renew licence though (until I read your post).
    Never had a warden visit. I think it was only about €5 when I last bought it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    I don't think many people are going to admit to not having a licence on the internet, with the fine now being €100 :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭nudger


    Have a dog - forgot to renew licence though (until I read your post).
    Never had a warden visit. I think it was only about €5 when I last bought it.

    Neither had I, A friend living about a mile away had told me she had a visit a couple of days before so I had meant to get one but wasn't lop of my to do list.
    €20 isn't much but people's belts are tight at the moment.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    muddypaws wrote: »
    I don't think many people are going to admit to not having a licence on the internet, with the fine now being €100 :)
    Well short of the local dog warden reading this thread AND connecting a user name (which is recommended not to be your real name) AND your address that you live at I'd say it's about as safe to admitt it now as before the increase.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 987 ✭✭✭ekevosu


    Yes I have one, not that expensive I think.easy enough to pop into the local post office and get one. Harder to enforce than the tv licence I'd imagine.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    Nody wrote: »
    Well short of the local dog warden reading this thread AND connecting a user name (which is recommended not to be your real name) AND your address that you live at I'd say it's about as safe to admitt it now as before the increase.


    I think you'd be very surprised. There have been instances of people with RB dogs arranging to meet up on here and other sites, and then dog wardens turning up to check that the dogs are all muzzled. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ms Tootsie


    We got ours when we heard the fine was going up just to be on the safe side. Kept meaning to do it but we had him a year before we got round to it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,378 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Does anyone know why we have licences for dogs but not, say cats, or horses?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭nudger


    muddypaws wrote: »
    I think you'd be very surprised. There have been instances of people with RB dogs arranging to meet up on here and other sites, and then dog wardens turning up to check that the dogs are all muzzled. :)

    Sounds a bit far fetched.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    muddypaws wrote: »
    I think you'd be very surprised. There have been instances of people with RB dogs arranging to meet up on here and other sites, and then dog wardens turning up to check that the dogs are all muzzled. :)
    There's a difference between posting "Lets all meet up at park XYZ on Wednesday at 10pm" and "I don't have a dog license" in terms of catching someone though :P


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭Kukey


    Yes I have two dog licences.Dog Warden always around my area and was calling into houses around here last year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    nudger wrote: »
    Sounds a bit far fetched.

    yep, you're right, I'm lying, this didn't happen at all. :rolleyes: Funnily enough, most, if not all, of the posters who were involved don't post in this forum anymore.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Missyelliot2


    Bummer! Can't buy one online!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭spur


    Yes have a licence for each of my dogs. I actually think it's not easy to get it at a post office - when I was getting it there, it was always lapsed as the PO opened only when I was at work and closed for the same lunch hour I had. However, I now get online and it's brilliant.

    You should be reminded when the licence expires. This year I wasn't notified, but had a good idea when it was due. I had some issues with the website and contacted Cork CoCo to say this and also asked if I should have been notified. The problem resolved itself and a few days later they did ring me and she said I should have been notified and she didn't know why I wasn't.

    The other licence is up in next few weeks and it'll be interesting if I'm notified.

    We haven't ever been checked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Missyelliot2


    spur wrote: »
    Yes have a licence for each of my dogs. I actually think it's not easy to get it at a post office - when I was getting it there, it was always lapsed as the PO opened only when I was at work and closed for the same lunch hour I had. However, I now get online and it's brilliant.

    Where online did you buy it? The anpost website says to go to local Post Office


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    I have one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭spur


    You can buy them online for Cork County Council - not sure how many other councils have this facility.
    (You can only get for addresses in Cork)

    If you are living in Cork, go to Cork County council's website and down the left there are lots of icons - on the 2nd page there is one for dog licences - system is called iMadra.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 838 ✭✭✭bluecherry74


    Where online did you buy it? The anpost website says to go to local Post Office

    You buy from you local council:

    http://www.gov.ie/services/buy-a-dog-licence/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Missyelliot2


    Thanks folks. Am in Cork City, so I think I will have to go to the Post Office - my area isn't listed in the County Council website...obviously the City Council not as techno competent as the County one!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭granturismo


    Thanks folks. Am in Cork City, so I think I will have to go to the Post Office - my area isn't listed in the County Council website...obviously the City Council not as techno competent as the County one!

    My Council isnt listed on that link either but it is possible to buy the dog license on the council website, so check Cork City's website.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Tranceypoo


    muddypaws wrote: »
    I think you'd be very surprised. There have been instances of people with RB dogs arranging to meet up on here and other sites, and then dog wardens turning up to check that the dogs are all muzzled. :)
    y

    Blimey!! There's me thinking the dog wardens of Ireland were rushed off their feet picking up the strays, only 1 warden for the whole of our county !!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Missyelliot2


    My Council isnt listed on that link either but it is possible to buy the dog license on the council website, so check Cork City's website.

    Thanks granturismo....but Cork City Council sending me to the Post Office (therefore, probably won't happen for a while, as am working and the post office closes between 1-2pm!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Thanks granturismo....but Cork City Council sending me to the Post Office (therefore, probably won't happen for a while, as am working and the post office closes between 1-2pm!)

    What about Saturdays? PO's open until 12.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Missyelliot2


    What about Saturdays? PO's open until 12.

    True...will try that


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭nudger


    Well it seems like we are a compliant lot here on Boards, good to hear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    I have 3 - 20 each does add up and thanks for reminding me the renew date is on its way ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭HurtLocker


    nudger wrote: »
    Well it seems like we are a compliant lot here on Boards, good to hear.

    I'd put it down to non compliant people who don't see the point of posting for fear of a lecture.

    I have one for my current dog. Don't plan on getting one for the next dog who's coming soon. Government has enough of my money. And IRL I know more people who don't than do. Which is quite annoying.

    Either everyone should have one or no-one should have one. The enforcement is sh*t. We were called to and so was my friend. We showed our licence. My friend just didn't answer the door.

    If everyone paid it would be more like €4 a licence in theory. But the government would just leave it as is anyway. We are just a money source to them.

    It hard to see the point when so few have one. 19 out of every 70 dogs. Or 73% of dogs are unlicensed. I'd rather give an extra €40 a year to the Guide Dogs tbh.

    Also a quick search of dog licence will show there's a Dog Warden on Boards. :o.

    The fact it's gone from €12.50 to €20 so the fact I have two dogs will up it to €40. That's a nice chunk of walk around money or petrol.

    Again people will disagree with me but that's it from my prospective.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭pawrick


    My gf has a dog and has a licence. The local inspector has called to her house a couple of times over the past few years - however if she didn't have a licence to begin with I doubt her house would have been checked.

    My family had dogs up until about 10 yrs ago and we were never checked and never had a licence. If/when the mandatory chipping is brought in and if it includes the licence fee then I will pay it when/if I get a dog otherwise I will only pay to have my dog chipped and not get a licence. I don't see the point in licences as things stand apart from it being an extra tax on dog owners.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    muddypaws wrote: »
    yep, you're right, I'm lying, this didn't happen at all. :rolleyes: Funnily enough, most, if not all, of the posters who were involved don't post in this forum anymore.

    Absolutely true - members of this forum were treathened with the warden for posting pics of RB dogs without muzzles (myself included). As far as I remember one person was treathened with social services too, for having a pic of his child with a large dog. About the same time I set up a group for RB owners on boards, which now thankfully is a lot quieter because that sort of messing is no longer tolerated.

    I have a license for both, only because both are restricted and often walked without muzzles on (dun dun duuuun) so if we were stopped I'd hope that the lack of muzzles might be a warning offence if we show we're responsible owners with our licenses. I don't agree with them though, without proper enforcement and warden services they're not worth the paper they're written on.

    I'd happily pay more on my license if it meant we had better services and facilities for our dogs and dogs in general. (incl better PTS rates in pounds).


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taxburden carrier


    My dog is just black and white. Is the license cheaper?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 173 ✭✭acermaple


    Has anyone got the lifetime licence, I am thinking of getting one for my dog as he is still a pup and it would make more sense moneywise.I know there was trouble with the roll out initially but presumably it is freely available now in all PO's?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    Right guess I'm going to be the first one to say this. I don't have a license. Why? There are a number of reasons, the main one being civil disobedience is a valid form of protest.

    Here's another, the kill rate in pounds across the country makes for horrible reading, if it wasn't for rescues in Ireland, England and elsewhere it would be far, far worse, here are ways to fix this, but I believe that the government just sees this a revenue stream, not a way to pay for pounds, not a way to give rescues much needed grants.

    Secondly, why should I? Anytime I have rang the dog warden I have gotten no help whatsoever. I recently posted about how I can't take my dog for a walk without being attacked by the dogs who are allowed to run loose in our estate. I rang the dog warden, nothing was done, and I can assure you that these owners do not have a license. So why should I, a responsible owner who has my dog, tagged, microchipped, insured, neutered, vaccinated hand out an extra €20 on top of everything for a license when there are owners who do none of this and impede me from taking my dog for a walk and have NOTHING done to them. If the dog warden comes to my door I will be telling him this, a long with anyone who is looking for my support in any up coming elections.

    Like I said civil disobedience is a valid form of protest and until the rules are the same for everyone I will not be getting a dog license.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭boomerang


    Plus there is zero enforcement. The vast majority of dog owners do not hold a licence and are rarely fined. (Look at the number of licences and fines issued per local authority, compared with the estimated dog population.) The minority of responsible dog owners who do have a licence for their pet get absolutely hounded by the local authority every year with pretty aggressive reminders in the post to renew. And like you meoklmrk91, there is great dis-satisfaction with the dog warden service in our county.

    It's been a few years since I renewed my dogs' licences.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I have a licence for my lad, though tbh healthwise, I don't think he'll see another Santa. Anyway, I got a perfectly civil note in the post telling me the old licence was expiring and pointing out I could renew online. Very simple process (Dublin City Coucil) and paper licence arrived in the post yesterday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭boomerang


    Your council's nicer than mine :D


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,790 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    acermaple wrote: »
    Has anyone got the lifetime licence, I am thinking of getting one for my dog as he is still a pup and it would make more sense moneywise.I know there was trouble with the roll out initially but presumably it is freely available now in all PO's?

    Yes, I got the lifetime licence just after it came into being in Jan 2012 (I think?) for my young GSD.. she was the first in the county to get the lifetime licence :o I don't know though, what their availability is like in other counties? It seems to have caused consternation in a number of places, blank faces in response to enquiries etc :o
    Unlike others who have posted, the wardens up here are pretty active, and do reasonably regular door-to-door checks. They know who has a licence already and don't bother those of us who have them, but it is kinda funny to see the word spreading through the estate that the warden's about, and the charge down to the post office ahead of him :D
    They're also pretty good at responding to complaints, as a general rule. I don't have a problem paying my licence because we're pretty well served up here, but I can certainly see why people would be slow to pay up in certain counties.
    I'd love to see a properly enforced licencing system which used joined-up-thinking, such as in the north, where microchipping is mandatory, the licence is clearly visible tag worn by the dog, and people who neuter their dogs get a serious reduction in their licence fee (€50 normally, €5 for neutered dogs).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    If I told you i would have to kill you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    DBB wrote: »
    Yes, I got the lifetime licence just after it came into being in Jan 2012 (I think?) for my young GSD.. she was the first in the county to get the lifetime licence :o I don't know though, what their availability is like in other counties? It seems to have caused consternation in a number of places, blank faces in response to enquiries etc :o
    Unlike others who have posted, the wardens up here are pretty active, and do reasonably regular door-to-door checks. They know who has a licence already and don't bother those of us who have them, but it is kinda funny to see the word spreading through the estate that the warden's about, and the charge down to the post office ahead of him :D
    They're also pretty good at responding to complaints, as a general rule. I don't have a problem paying my licence because we're pretty well served up here, but I can certainly see why people would be slow to pay up in certain counties.
    I'd love to see a properly enforced licencing system which used joined-up-thinking, such as in the north, where microchipping is mandatory, the licence is clearly visible tag worn by the dog, and people who neuter their dogs get a serious reduction in their licence fee (€50 normally, €5 for neutered dogs).

    Now I would have zero problems paying for a license like that, sounds great. I know that mandatory microchipping is coming in here but I can't see it being enforced, horses have supposed to be microchipped for years and still there is massive issues with the lack of enforcement.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 350 ✭✭CRM Ireland


    I didnt even know you had to have a licence until I read this thread. What is the actual reason for paying for a licence? I assume its just for a source of income, but they would normally make up some reason as to why we have to pay for one.

    I obviously dont have one, considering Ive never heard of them, but rest assured I will not be getting one either.

    What legal powers do wardens have? My house is secured by 8ft walls and cameras, so they couldnt actually get onto my land, but what if I was walking my dog on the beach, could they attempt to do anything then? I think I would just ignore anyone asking me questions like that. Nobody can force me to answer them, provide my name etc, Id be in the car and away.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    No, being English I didn't know either until the warden knocked looking for a neighbour's dog, and my nosy little git decided he wanted to say 'Hi' to the nice man. Neither did my DH bother to put me right... :rolleyes:

    Shot down to the PO to get one. The girl in the PO couldn't stop laughing when I gave her my address. Seemed I was the sixth person in the area to come in looking for a dog licence!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    I didnt even know you had to have a licence until I read this thread. What is the actual reason for paying for a licence? I assume its just for a source of income, but they would normally make up some reason as to why we have to pay for one.

    I obviously dont have one, considering Ive never heard of them, but rest assured I will not be getting one either.

    What legal powers do wardens have? My house is secured by 8ft walls and cameras, so they couldnt actually get onto my land, but what if I was walking my dog on the beach, could they attempt to do anything then? I think I would just ignore anyone asking me questions like that. Nobody can force me to answer them, provide my name etc, Id be in the car and away.

    Would that be the car thats registered to your home address? :P

    The dog licence is meant to pay for the warden services, local pound etc. Unfortunately it is a fact of life that we do need dog wardens, and pounds due to irresponsible owners allowing their dogs to wander, and unfortunate times when dogs escape or are stolen.

    I would have no issue with paying a licence fee if the pounds were run properly and the dogs were well looked after in there, and all attempts were made to rehome unwanted dogs. But, that depends on what area you live in, some pounds will not work with rescues, and after 5 days the dogs are killed. Others work very well with rescues, and also share dogs' details themselves to get the dogs reunited or rehomed. The same with dog wardens, some seem to actually like dogs, but unfortunately a lot of them don't, and seem to have very little knowledge about dogs. Would be great if the licence fee was used to train dog wardens and pound staff properly, and also to do some education of the general public.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,790 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB



    What legal powers do wardens have? My house is secured by 8ft walls and cameras, so they couldnt actually get onto my land, but what if I was walking my dog on the beach, could they attempt to do anything then? I think I would just ignore anyone asking me questions like that. Nobody can force me to answer them, provide my name etc, Id be in the car and away.

    Section 16 of the Control of Dogs Act lists the powers of dog wardens.
    They, like anyone else, have every right to approach your front door to make enquiries, in their case, about your dogs. The height of your fence has little to do with it... A warden is hardly going to attempt to break into your property by climbing the walls. If they do need to access your house, they can apply for a search warrant via AGS. A Garda must serve that warrant.
    Walking on the beach, the warden has the legal power to ask for your details. They can also seize your dog there and then if they believe him to have been involved in an offense.
    Failure to give details, or giving wrong details, is an offence under the above mentioned Section. In addition, it is a far more serious offence to not give your name/give false details, than it is not to have a licence for your dog. The courts do not take kindly to people giving false information to State-employed authorised officers.
    The warden might not be able to force you to do anything there on the spot (they're hardly going to get you into a headlock), but if you don't comply, perhaps your local district court judge would encourage you to be more forthcoming. You'd be traced within moments with that car of yours. No car? No problem. The guards are only a phone call away.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    nudger wrote: »
    2 years ago I got a knock at the door which turned out to be the Dog warden looking to see if I had a dog and if so a licence.

    Yes I did and no I didn't, no problem he said, €12.70 on the spot and I had a licence.

    I heard about the Fine going up to €100 last week, I had forgotten to get one last year, do you get reminders and has anyone had a visit recently from the warden?

    Last year 190,000 licences were bought for a dog population estimated around 700,000 probably a lot more.

    So do you have a licence?

    Maybe we could have a poll?

    I have 3 dog licences. It's a bit of a pain having to go to the Post Office to get them. Would be much handier if they could be renewed online. They used send out 3 different reminders, now they send out all 3 in the one envelope.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 350 ✭✭CRM Ireland


    muddypaws wrote: »
    Would that be the car thats registered to your home address? :P

    Yes it is indeed registered to my home address, my home in Scotland! :D


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,790 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Yes it is indeed registered to my home address, my home in Scotland! :D

    You think that'll stop them investigating where you're living here?
    Seriously, the act of running away from an authorised officer, having just engaged in a pretty serious offence of not having given your name/wrong name on request, is going to result in said authorised officer doing a bit of digging to find out who you are. Like I said above, it is not an offence that is appreciated by the courts in Ireland at any rate.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 350 ✭✭CRM Ireland


    DBB wrote: »
    Section 16 of the Control of Dogs Act lists the powers of dog wardens.
    They, like anyone else, have every right to approach your front door to make enquiries, in their case, about your dogs. The height of your fence has little to do with it... A warden is hardly going to attempt to break into your property by climbing the walls. If they do need to access your house, they can apply for a search warrant via AGS. A Garda must serve that warrant.
    Walking on the beach, the warden has the legal power to ask for your details. They can also seize your dog there and then if they believe him to have been involved in an offense.
    Failure to give details, or giving wrong details, is an offence under the above mentioned Section. In addition, it is a far more serious offence to not give your name/give false details, than it is not to have a licence for your dog. The courts do not take kindly to people giving false information to State-employed authorised officers.
    The warden might not be able to force you to do anything there on the spot (they're hardly going to get you into a headlock), but if you don't comply, perhaps your local district court judge would encourage you to be more forthcoming. You'd be traced within moments with that car of yours. No car? No problem. The guards are only a phone call away.

    Im not trying to sound like a trouble maker, just to make that clear. I do however like to know exactly what my rights are.

    What offence would I be committing by refusing to give details? I have always assumed the law in Ireland is extremely similar to the laws in the UK. I have the right to remain silent, and would therefore be exercising it by just walking away. I was also under the impression that unless I was suspected of having committed an offence, I have no obligation whatsoever to even the Police. Unless some report was made, what grounds would a random passing warden have to suspect me of not having a licence?

    I was watching a video a while back of some black guy who was fed up being stopped by the Police in his local area. He was being stopped a lot because his car looked a wreck and he also believed it was some race related attention. Anyway, he filmed it all secretly and the Policeman was asking for his details, if the car was insured etc. The driver asked the Policeman over and over if he was suspected of being involved in any incidents, or if he was suspected of breaking any laws. The officer repeatedly replied that it was "just a routine stop" etc, and the driver ultimately was told he could go on his way as he was refusing to provide any licence, identification, insurance certificate and he was not suspected of any particular offence. Apparently there is no obligation to provide anything, its just that most people simply hand over the documents when asked by a Police officer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    Yes it is indeed registered to my home address, my home in Scotland! :D

    Then I'm confused, if you're not resident here, I don't think you need a dog licence. If however you are resident here, but are keeping a car that is registered in the UK, then paying a €100 fine for not having a dog licence is going to be the least of your worries if the authorities start looking into you. :D


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    meoklmrk91 wrote: »
    Now I would have zero problems paying for a license like that, sounds great. I know that mandatory microchipping is coming in here but I can't see it being enforced, horses have supposed to be microchipped for years and still there is massive issues with the lack of enforcement.
    The problem with microchipping horses is the accompanying horse passport. The cost of this is pretty high and some feel not worth it. I like the idea of having a cheaper licence for a neutered animal.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 350 ✭✭CRM Ireland


    muddypaws wrote: »
    Then I'm confused, if you're not resident here, I don't think you need a dog licence. If however you are resident here, but are keeping a car that is registered in the UK, then paying a €100 fine for not having a dog licence is going to be the least of your worries if the authorities start looking into you. :D

    I live in both places, but the dog is in Ireland all the time, its never left the country. The UK is my main place of residence. :p


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 350 ✭✭CRM Ireland


    The problem with microchipping horses is the accompanying horse passport. The cost of this is pretty high and some feel not worth it. I like the idea of having a cheaper licence for a neutered animal.

    Ive got a horse that I dont have the passport for. Its an ex-race horse and the person I got him from was sold him a few years ago, but the original owner left the country and never got around to passing on the passport. The horse is 13 years old. How would I go about getting the passport, or if it turns out there never was one, how do I get one?


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