Cycle Lanes Finally!!!

danniemcq

Just heading into work this morning and noticed new white lines along the side of the roads through town.

Its great to finally see them as they were badly needed around the place and they are supposed to be part of some new huge network around the area too.

Just a heads up though they don't actually say cycle lane or have pictures of the bikes in them like most do so cyclists be sure to stay in them and motorists stay out!

homer simpson

They are still putting the marking on them I think. The one out blaney road has a bicycle painted on it.

judging by the shape of them (up & down kerbs ect.) I'll stick to the road :rolleyes:

danniemcq

homer simpson wrote: »

They are still putting the marking on them I think. The one out blaney road has a bicycle painted on it.

judging by the shape of them (up & down kerbs ect.) I'll stick to the road :rolleyes:

haven't had a chance to look at much of the route yet, the bits i seen down by the community center and across to the old aldi out to the student accomodation was all on the road.

taxi man mentioned about it being on the footpath out that road but i guess thats what happens when you don't think of bikes when building.

ednwireland

lines on the road - pointless, everyone ignores them anyway (including cyclists)

havent seen these but probably not wide enough either

generally the best thing to do with cycling infrastructure in this country is ignore it (asa cyclist)

danniemcq

ednwireland wrote: »

lines on the road - pointless, everyone ignores them anyway (including cyclists)

havent seen these but probably not wide enough either

generally the best thing to do with cycling infrastructure in this country is ignore it (asa cyclist)

In Letterkenny its as if not worse than Dublin. I've ended up sprawled over the road more here in 6 months than i did in 4 years in Galway. and at over 6ft with a bright blue helmet and jacket its quite hard not to see me

Cars cutting across my path after just passing me out and then shouting at me for damaging their cars. cars pulling out at roundabouts and keeping driving as i skidded across the road, people swinging open car doors its a nightmare

I know that a cycle lane wouldn't have stopped her cutting across or most of the others but its a start and the more people that use them and the more drivers that see them may start looking out for cyclists.

I can picture quite a number of teething issues however as i heard nothing about this being done till i seen it this morning, nothing in papers or online

I'll take a photo of them now after work.

declan_8

I seen these been done yesterday evening around the town.

Driving into work this morning across the Pearse road and as a cyclist myself I will be reluctant to use these simply because the road space left for the cars and lorries is not wide enough and they will have no choice but to overlap with the cycle lane in some places and is just dangerous.

Pique

homer simpson wrote: »

judging by the shape of them (up & down kerbs ect.) I'll stick to the road :rolleyes:

That's the spirit, bemoan the fact that even when they are provided, they're still not good enough for you and you'll ignore them anyway.
Should a motorist ignore them, oh, the humanity!!!

GismoBaby

Hope they do a better job on the cycle lanes up here than they did recently in sligo... in places it is physically impossible to keep a car out of the cycle lane, even a small car, cos they made the cycle lanes so wide!! The cycle lanes is actually as wide as the car lane its a joke!!

grugni

As a cyclist who cycles everyday to and from work in Letterkenny. I have seen these lanes and I wont be using them. I go hell for leather when Im out so I will just come off at some point going up and down the curbs.

Im going to be sticking to the roads for the time being

muffler

grugni wrote: »

I go hell for leather when Im out so I will just come off at some point going up and down the curbs.

Is that not the sign of a bad cyclist?

grugni

muffler wrote: »

Is that not the sign of a bad cyclist?

Nope, I just like to push myself when Im out, Im training for the sligo to letterkenny cycle at the moment.

overshoot

Pique wrote: »

That's the spirit, bemoan the fact that even when they are provided, they're still not good enough for you and you'll ignore them anyway.
Should a motorist ignore them, oh, the humanity!!!

its pointless providing them, if they are not going to be done right, 2 lanes not wide enough for either is no better than one lane. This was regular in dublin and both forms of transport got on with it.
plus as a motorist which would you rather, a cyclist going in a straight line or one which has to constantly swerve to avoid debris (ok theres worst than this but so many are so badly installed and have to be avoided) most of this a car wouldnt have to avoid but a bike would.

how do they compare to this?

muffler

grugni wrote: »

Nope, I just like to push myself when Im out, Im training for the sligo to letterkenny cycle at the moment.

Understandable of course.

I suppose the point I was making was should cyclists not exercise more care and cycle that bit slower in an urban environment as opposed to a good long stretch of country road?

Good luck with the Sligo to Letterkenny run

muffler

overshoot wrote: »

its pointless providing them, if they are not going to be done right, 2 lanes not wide enough for either is no better than one lane. This was regular in dublin and both forms of transport got on with it.
plus as a motorist which would you rather, a cyclist going in a straight line or one which has to constantly swerve to avoid debris (ok theres worst than this but so many are so badly installed and have to be avoided) most of this a car wouldnt have to avoid but a bike would.

how do they compare to this?

The spuds are cheap :pac:

danniemcq

overshoot wrote: »

its pointless providing them, if they are not going to be done right, 2 lanes not wide enough for either is no better than one lane. This was regular in dublin and both forms of transport got on with it.
plus as a motorist which would you rather, a cyclist going in a straight line or one which has to constantly swerve to avoid debris (ok theres worst than this but so many are so badly installed and have to be avoided) most of this a car wouldnt have to avoid but a bike would.

how do they compare to this?

here are 2 pics from the same area just past the college, will try and get one of the lanes down along pearse to compare

grugni

danniemcq wrote: »

here are 2 pics from the same area just past the college, will try and get one of the lanes down along pearse to compare

Havent cycled that road yet, those arent that bad, the ones ive seen are actually part of the path. I would use the ones that are actually part of the road

danniemcq

Yeah blaney road is on footpath and so is the one along pacificare/pramerica road. Are they the ones you use? i think most of the rest are on the road but the lanes on pearse road seem awfully wide.

homer simpson

Had a bit of a better look today, and more of them are going down today, the ones along pearse road don't seem too bad, I wouldn't fancy trying to go up there in rush hour traffic mind you. But they do seem relatively wide, good job t seems.

Pique wrote: »

That's the spirit, bemoan the fact that even when they are provided, they're still not good enough for you and you'll ignore them anyway.
Should a motorist ignore them, oh, the humanity!!!

I think you're missing what I mean, I will use the cycle lanes that are on the road itself, but the ones on the footpath that I've seen are too up and down for entrances to houses / business' that require you to stop in some places you have to stop around 6 times in 100 meters, they are pointless cycle lanes for me anyway.

galwaycyclist

Pique wrote: »

That's the spirit, bemoan the fact that even when they are provided, they're still not good enough for you and you'll ignore them anyway.
Should a motorist ignore them, oh, the humanity!!!

You are mistaken if you think that roadside cycle facilities are inherently beneficial for cyclists. If poorly thought out, they are more dangerous to cycle on than simply staying on the road.

Edit: This video was posted recently in the cycling forum by someone who, like others, has discovered that putting cyclists on footpaths is dangerous and inconvenient.

ghogie91 wrote: »

Just wanted to bring this up.

I made a video of this on youtube to explain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWppcOGB87o

My argument is that to be safe on the likes of these lanes you have to bypass them and ride on the road as I did in the first half of the video

Since these are paths and basically stop for entrances to estates and houses, cars treat you like a pedestrian and not a cyclist. In comparison to flat cycle lanes, cars have to wait for you to pass as you are essentially on the road with the traffic in a continuing cycle lane.

Where does the right away lie? With the cyclist or a car turning into an entrance to somewhere where these cycle 'paths' are? Does the car wait or does the cyclist wait? Keeping in mind that if this was a lane and not a path the bike would have the right away? And also I have to mention the sudden ending of these cycle lanes also shown in the second half of the video!

galwaycyclist

danniemcq wrote: »

here are 2 pics from the same area just past the college, will try and get one of the lanes down along pearse to compare

They look quite narrow - certainly less than the required 2m width.

muffler

galwaycyclist wrote: »

They look quite narrow - certainly less than the required 2m width.

2 metres?

danniemcq

muffler wrote: »

2 metres?

i thought that was a bit big but

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/archive/provision_of_cycling_facilities_ch3_2006.pdf (page 22)



and

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/national_cycle_manual_110728.pdf



page 12

suggest otherwise

muffler

danniemcq wrote: »

suggest otherwise

I wont. One cyclist requires 1 metre width according to your link.

danniemcq

muffler wrote: »

I wont. One cyclist requires 1 metre width according to your link.

am i reading it wrong that its at least 2.55m (1.25 to inside kerb and same to outside lane?) the measurement at the top suggests 1 but the plan view shows 1.75 for cyclist width

the bottom image seems to be 1.5m for the photos i put up (.25m from kerb, .75m for single file and a further .5m -.75m to traffic depending on speed)

For what its worth the ones on Pearse Road seem much wider

homer simpson

muffler wrote: »

I wont. One cyclist requires 1 metre width according to your link.

You've never seen me cycling so, :pac:

muffler

There's something not adding up right with the dimensions in the diagram

muffler

homer simpson wrote: »

You've never seen me cycling so, :pac:

No, but I've heard about you though

freevoice

Pearse Road is a mess , the road is too narrow to facilitate the cycle lanes. Wide Lorries or buses will have to veer into the cycle lanes in some places , also the lanes suddenly end before the station roundabout . Can see it backing up traffic there . Badly planned all round , half-assed by the DCC once again.

galwaycyclist

muffler wrote: »

There's something not adding up right with the dimensions in the diagram

The NTA guidance is a bit of a mess - but thats a much longer story.

If you look at some of their diagrams they show cycle lanes as 2m wide.

http://www.cyclemanual.ie/manual/designing/flowchart/

A better discussion here from English guidance:

http://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/sites/cycling-embassy.org.uk/files/documents/cyclingengland/2011/01/a11_cycle_lanes.pdf

Width of Cycle Lanes
Wherever possible cycle lanes should be 2m wide. This is particularly important where parents are accompanying children and for cyclists overtaking other cyclists.

In addition, unlike most vehicles in urban areas, cyclists travel at different speeds and will regularly need to pull out to overtake slower cyclists. Cycle lanes can only provide comfort and reassurance for cyclists if motorists do not pass them too closely. There is evidence to suggest that cycle lanes can actually encourage motorists to pass cyclists more closely than if there were no cycle lanes.

This source does give 1.5m as a minimum width. However, there is a view that narrow cycle lanes can make cycling conditions worse than doing nothing at all. See further on in that document for a discussion of wide traffic lanes as an alternative to cycle lanes.

madalig12

Do the cycle lanes outside the main college entrance area not have huge drops/kerbs or was I seeing things?

hootietootie

Few drivers seemed to be getting annoyed with cars on the Pearse road staying out of the cycle lanes this evening.road is definitely too narrow to have the cycle lane and 2 lanes of traffic heading towards the Tesco roundabout.

Wonder would they be wide enough for me to stick stabilisers on a bike so I can learn to cycle??:D

overshoot

Was up in letterkenny today and got a look at some of them... Awful job, wouldn't touch them. Seen one cyclist attempting to use them abandon it half way up the road.
There are yield signs at both sides and they are not wide enough to be 2 way.
Seen yield markings within 3m of each other!
There are still steps up onto the curb and not a smooth ramp.
And then where they are on the road, its not wide enough for both.
They would have been better doing nothing from what iv seen as they are fit for nothing!

galwaycyclist

overshoot wrote: »

Was up in letterkenny today and got a look at some of them... Awful job, wouldn't touch them. Seen one cyclist attempting to use them abandon it half way up the road.
There are yield signs at both sides and they are not wide enough to be 2 way.
Seen yield markings within 3m of each other!
There are still steps up onto the curb and not a smooth ramp.
And then where they are on the road, its not wide enough for both.
They would have been better doing nothing from what iv seen as they are fit for nothing!

If they are removimg priority at the side roads then this is best interpreted as a crude attempt to manage and control cyclists for the benefit of motor traffic - at the expense of the cyclists' safety and convenience.

FanadMan

overshoot wrote: »

its pointless providing them, if they are not going to be done right, 2 lanes not wide enough for either is no better than one lane. This was regular in dublin and both forms of transport got on with it.
plus as a motorist which would you rather, a cyclist going in a straight line or one which has to constantly swerve to avoid debris (ok theres worst than this but so many are so badly installed and have to be avoided) most of this a car wouldnt have to avoid but a bike would.

how do they compare to this?

Was that pic taken in Doughiska? Looks kinda familiar for some reason.

Never mind - found it on its original site and it was taken in Doughiska

kiddums

As a non cyclist, I won't be bothering obeying the lanes much, especially when I've already been given the fingers by cyclist's who refused to use the lane and were in the middle of the road, and on a Saturday morning too.

But I do think that this is another example of DCC thinking they know what people want, and implementing it in the worst possible way, without public consultation.

danniemcq

kiddums wrote: »

As a non cyclist, I won't be bothering obeying the lanes much, especially when I've already been given the fingers by cyclist's who refused to use the lane and were in the middle of the road, and on a Saturday morning too.

But I do think that this is another example of DCC thinking they know what people want, and implementing it in the worst possible way, without public consultation.

outta curiousity which "lane" was this on? Pearse, back of the IT, Blaney or somewhere else?

kiddums

danniemcq wrote: »

outta curiousity which "lane" was this on? Pearse, back of the IT, Blaney or somewhere else?

Once on the road beside the lane on Blaney, and a few times on pearse road.

The road on Blaney has the cycle lane on the footpath, which doesn't really go up and down much, so no excuse.

overshoot

kiddums wrote: »

Once on the road beside the lane on Blaney, and a few times on pearse road.

The road on Blaney has the cycle lane on the footpath, which doesn't really go up and down much, so no excuse.

haha the blaney road was one of the main ones i was looking at when i gave out about it (and where the cyclist gave up), was only on that and the pearse/port road area so if it gets worse.....
its a disaster, especially when you are coming up to the roundabout at dunnes. there are plenty of dips in the footpath there for future exits too, dealing with them is about the same as speed bumps for cars. and the aldi junction, just ????

anyway why would anyone in their sane mind use a lane which will force them to yield or have a speed bump every 50m-100m when there is a perfectly good flat free flowing one a metre away? they also just end and dont merge properly with the road, at least in dublin they made the footpath kick out so nobody had to stop. they brought the cyclist back onto the road at junctions and everything moved with no need for yield signs.
Theres more to making cycle lanes than a bit of paint. which unfortunately DCC dont realise and have implemented a system that will just piss everyone off as the motorist will give out for the cyclist not using the cycle lane who in turn is pissed off that its not fit for purpose.

danniemcq

kiddums wrote: »

Once on the road beside the lane on Blaney, and a few times on pearse road.

The road on Blaney has the cycle lane on the footpath, which doesn't really go up and down much, so no excuse.

the blaney road has been mentioned a few times here regarding the whole entrance/up and down bits

Pearse road shouldn't be as bad. I know the road in at the side can be very rough (Drains and gullys) around there are a lot of times there are 2 cars vying for position. Couple this with the sudden end at the end that leaves you unable to go anywhere doesn't help anyone.

As overshoot says its not as easy as painting a line and as you said yourself i doubt DCC asked to many drivers/cyclists their opinions. But when you say that you don't think you'll obey them just remember that someone on a bike is a lot more fragile than you are in your car. You give out about cyclists on the road but aren't you as bad yourself for using the lane?

kiddums

danniemcq wrote: »

the blaney road has been mentioned a few times here regarding the whole entrance/up and down bits

Pearse road shouldn't be as bad. I know the road in at the side can be very rough (Drains and gullys) around there are a lot of times there are 2 cars vying for position. Couple this with the sudden end at the end that leaves you unable to go anywhere doesn't help anyone.

As overshoot says its not as easy as painting a line and as you said yourself i doubt DCC asked to many drivers/cyclists their opinions. But when you say that you don't think you'll obey them just remember that someone on a bike is a lot more fragile than you are in your car. You give out about cyclists on the road but aren't you as bad yourself for using the lane?

I understand that its not good for cyclists, but they need to obey the rules of the road regardless.

Where I saw them on Blaney was opposite the council offices, where the footpath is as smooth as you could ask for.

I'm not having a go about cyclists (provided they obey the rules), more the councils implementation of these lanes and how terrible they are.
And yes, I'll give off about motorists dissobeying the rules when its appropiate.

Yes, I might be as bad, but what choice have the council left me? Will they replace a mirror on my car that gets taken off by a truck beside me as the road lanes are too small now, or by a cyclist because the cycle lanes are so narrow and rough?

danniemcq

kiddums wrote: »

I understand that its not good for cyclists, but they need to obey the rules of the road regardless.

Where I saw them on Blaney was opposite the council offices, where the footpath is as smooth as you could ask for.

I'm not having a go about cyclists (provided they obey the rules), more the councils implementation of these lanes and how terrible they are.
And yes, I'll give off about motorists dissobeying the rules when its appropiate.

Yes, I might be as bad, but what choice have the council left me? Will they replace a mirror on my car that gets taken off by a truck beside me as the road lanes are too small now, or by a cyclist because the cycle lanes are so narrow and rough?

Don't worry i think everyone is on the same page on the thread saying that the council never thought this through and its causing hassle for all parties. I said it early in the thread that it would and its being proven.

Like you said out at council place on Blaney road it is grand and smooth but it leads to the un and down entrances and depending on what way you are going a bike joining the road here to skip those is taking their life into their hands as its not a slow road.

IMO they should have skipped out by IT and ran the road up and over Gortlee instead. That road is a balls to go up and over yes but its also quiter and wider. Or at least dug up some of the footpath and moved the trees where it is now.

Pearse needs a safe ending and Blaney needs signs informing motorists that cyclists have the right of way or again the footpath dug up widen the road and put the lane on the same level as the road

galwaycyclist

kiddums wrote: »

I understand that its not good for cyclists, but they need to obey the rules of the road regardless.

Where I saw them on Blaney was opposite the council offices, where the footpath is as smooth as you could ask for.

I'm not having a go about cyclists (provided they obey the rules), more the councils implementation of these lanes and how terrible they are.
And yes, I'll give off about motorists dissobeying the rules when its appropiate.

Yes, I might be as bad, but what choice have the council left me? Will they replace a mirror on my car that gets taken off by a truck beside me as the road lanes are too small now, or by a cyclist because the cycle lanes are so narrow and rough?

What rules might they be? There is no longer any legal requirement for cyclists to use cycle lanes (or cycle tracks as they are called in the traffic regs) in this type of situation. The previous legal requirement to use cycle lanes was scrapped last year -apart from contra-flow cycle lanes on one-way streets and cycle tracks through pedestrian zones.

The reason for scrapping these regulations was because many Irish cycle facilities are self-evidently more dangerous and inconvenient than doing nothing with the road. In fact, Cyclist.ie, the National Cycling Lobby group has called for a nationwide ban on marking or constructing cycle facilities along roads until a proper oversight system can be put in place.

In any case, in law, there is a primary duty to avoid injury and damage to property. Arguably cyclists were always entitled to avoid using road markings or other features that increase their risk.

GoldenGreen

I too think these lanes are a joke, a cycle lane is more than a lick of paint and whoever designed them must never rode a bike in town at all.

But just wondering who is responsible for them, as I see above people saying it is Donegal County Council but just thinking here maybe its Letterkenny Town Council that is responsible.

kiddums

danniemcq wrote: »

Don't worry i think everyone is on the same page on the thread saying that the council never thought this through and its causing hassle for all parties. I said it early in the thread that it would and its being proven.

Like you said out at council place on Blaney road it is grand and smooth but it leads to the un and down entrances and depending on what way you are going a bike joining the road here to skip those is taking their life into their hands as its not a slow road.

IMO they should have skipped out by IT and ran the road up and over Gortlee instead. That road is a balls to go up and over yes but its also quiter and wider. Or at least dug up some of the footpath and moved the trees where it is now.

Pearse needs a safe ending and Blaney needs signs informing motorists that cyclists have the right of way or again the footpath dug up widen the road and put the lane on the same level as the road

I'll take your word for the suggestions, as I'm not a cyclist, but I completely agree that something needs to be done about it.
That or we need an award for the worst implementation of cycle lanes in the country.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

What rules might they be? There is no longer any legal requirement for cyclists to use cycle lanes (or cycle tracks as they are called in the traffic regs) in this type of situation. The previous legal requirement to use cycle lanes was scrapped last year -apart from contra-flow cycle lanes on one-way streets and cycle tracks through pedestrian zones.

The reason for scrapping these regulations was because many Irish cycle facilities are self-evidently more dangerous and inconvenient than doing nothing with the road. In fact, Cyclist.ie, the National Cycling Lobby group has called for a nationwide ban on marking or constructing cycle facilities along roads until a proper oversight system can be put in place.

In any case, in law, there is a primary duty to avoid injury and damage to property. Arguably cyclists were always entitled to avoid using road markings or other features that increase their risk.

Sorry, I was refering to the rules of the road that cyclists must obey too. Not specific rules that say they must use cycle lanes. Tho I didn't realise that was no longer a thing, like I say, not a cyclist.

danniemcq

GoldenGreen wrote: »

But just wondering who is responsible for them, as I see above people saying it is Donegal County Council but just thinking here maybe its Letterkenny Town Council that is responsible.

I am open to correction but as they mention a county wide plan for Donegal in the donegalnow article (http://www.donegalnow.com/sp/article_manager/detail/minister_launches_donegal_cycling_route) I would assume its a County Issue.

Perhaps each local council is in charge of actually placing the lanes but again i don't know

Cee-Jay-Cee

As far as I know it's the Co.Co. that implemented this as its county wide. They basically paid €500,000 to paint lines on the roads and footpaths with no consultation with any organisation, group, Gardai or individual.

I will not be using any of the cycle lanes on footpaths, they're uneven and totally unsuitable for road bikes with narrow tyres as there are no smooth ramps and in places there are lips which are over an inch in height.

Noreen1

danniemcq wrote: »

I am open to correction but as they mention a county wide plan for Donegal in the donegalnow article (http://www.donegalnow.com/sp/article_manager/detail/minister_launches_donegal_cycling_route) I would assume its a County Issue.

Perhaps each local council is in charge of actually placing the lanes but again i don't know

Hmm. I'm not sure whether to welcome cycle lanes, or not!

On some of the narrower main routes, I foresee major problems, tbh.

On the other hand, if it stops some cyclists cycling two abreast, at about 5mph, and taking up the whole road, especially on blind corners - that has to be a good thing!

As to the cycle lanes in LK. I agree with other posters on this thread. They're a joke, and a danger to cyclist and motorist alike, imho.

muffler

Had a look today at the "lanes" along the Port Road (past the IT) and whoever give the go-ahead for that needs their head examined. A complete and utter joke.

Just for the record Im not a cyclist.

Flibbles

The cycle lanes are complete and utter bollocks, like most things the LK/County Council does these days. It makes me glad I don't cycle in Letterkenny, it was dangerous enough before but now I think they've made things more dangerous for everyone on the road. A complete joke.

overshoot

galwaycyclist wrote: »

If they are removimg priority at the side roads then this is best interpreted as a crude attempt to manage and control cyclists for the benefit of motor traffic - at the expense of the cyclists' safety and convenience.

i actually thought this was beyond the thought capacity of the council but having another look today i realised the markings on the pearse road (not footpath) are also painted to yield to the entrances! (eg the petrol station)

iv suddenly switched from just believing this to be another hash job to being frankly concerned someone/people in a position to design/authorise are in a job at all! why the **** would you put a yield sign on the major road?... how the **** did nobody even ask that question! they are either complete and utter morons or extremily anti cyclist (edit - even for anti cyclist there must be quite a bit of moron there too)

galwaycyclist

overshoot wrote: »

i actually thought this was beyond the thought capacity of the council but having another look today i realised the markings on the pearse road (not footpath) are also painted to yield to the entrances! (eg the petrol station)

iv suddenly switched from just believing this to be another hash job to being frankly concerned someone/people in a position to design/authorise are in a job at all! why the **** would you put a yield sign on the major road?... how the **** did nobody even ask that question! they are either complete and utter morons or extremily anti cyclist

This is the problem with the whole concept of cycle facilities running along roads. While it is possible to use them as a means of promoting cycling - such as in Denmark and the Netherlands - in the hands of others it is possible to use them as a "weapon" against cyclists in pursuit of other goals.

It is one of the reasons why the national cycling lobby have been arguing that the last thing the government should be doing is giving county council engineers money for cycle facilities.