550euro for removing clamp

kasper

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/driver-forks-out-550-for-taking-clamp-off-wheel-29337932.htmljudge said it would have been cheaper to buy a permit

Dymo

Any chance of some type of explanation to your post?

bumper234

kasper wrote: »

judge said it would have been cheaper to buy a permit

Woulda been cheaper to buy an angle grinder ffs:eek:

Back story?

MarkR

You must be the strong silent type.

Henry Ford III

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/leader-local/limerick-man-fined-for-removing-clamp-from-his-car-1-5183282

kasper

sorry link there now

Anan1

How could that be when private clamping is illegal?

Mycroft H

Anan1 wrote: »

How could that be when private clamping is illegal?

This is more to do with criminal damage rather than the legality of clamping. If he'd removed the clamp without damaging it he wouldn't have been brought to court...

Robbo

Anan1 wrote: »

How could that be when private clamping is illegal?

But only if a Garda wearing his hat says so...

MugMugs

I'd like to know more background on this. Wonder if there is any?

galwaytt

If I read it correctly, he got fined for damaging it and not returning it. If he returned it, this would never have gone to court I'd say....

And I think the comment that the judge made that he was 'not entitled' to remove it is plain wrong. Is that not the nub of the issue of clamping in the first place - how can he be so flippant about it ?

djimi

I love this; people question the legality of clamping because it has never gone before a judge, then when it does end up in court people questions the judges ruling! Good times...

djimi

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Very interesting. However, private clamping is not regulated in Ireland, so why wasn't the clamper also charged with the offence of interfering with the car?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0113.html#sec113

Ah this little nugget of wisdom again. Why do people always leave out the last part when quoting this?

(5) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that, when he did the act alleged to constitute the offence, he believed, and had reasonable grounds for believing, that he had lawful authority for doing that act.

Anyone hired to clamp on private property, with the permission of the owner of said property, has grounds for believing they had lawful authority to act imo. It certainly doesnt make it as clear cut as some would have you believe.

cjt156

Indo wrote:

...McCarthy...Ballinacurra Weston...

Can't think of any reason the Gardai/Judge would choose to make an example...

Caliden

cjt156 wrote: »

Can't think of any reason the Gardai/Judge would choose to make an example...

With double digit previous convictions, either can I....

Anan1

cjt156 wrote: »

Can't think of any reason the Gardai/Judge would choose to make an example...

Judge expressed her sympathy and fined him €150 - considering his previous record, would you really call that making an example of him?

djimi

Johnny Utah wrote: »

That's the point; private clampers are not regulated; they don't have lawful authority to act. The belief that one had lawful authority as a defence doesn't really stand up when in fact there is no lawful authority to act in the first place.

For example, let's say I run a clamping business, but my release fee is €900. If after 10 days, the car owner still hasn't paid, then by virtue of my terms I can remove the car's engine as payment for my fee, thereby interfering with the car...

I believe that I have lawful authority to do so, so I should have a good defence, right?

Removing someones engine (ie causing criminal damage) is hardly the same thing.

Ordinarily assuming you are acting in a lawful manner is not a defence, but in this case it written in black and white that believing you are acting in a lawful manner is considered to be a good defence. If you are hired by someone to look after their private property, then surely you have a good case to argue that you believe that you were acting with lawful authority?

To be honest, I dont know how this would stand up if tried in court, but that last section really does throw the whole thing into a different light; its certainly not as black and white as just quoting the first couple of parts and then claiming that its an offence to interfere with a mechanically propelled vehicle.

Jumboman

Someone should put a clamp on the Judges car and see how he likes it.

dr.fuzzenstein

Always the same sh*te.
Park legally and you won't be clamped. I have zero sympathy for people complaining about being clamped. I have never once being clamped, though there was a close call at Dublin Airport. Had I been 1 minute later, it would have been too late. But they where completely right to clamp me. I was dropping someone off, but instead of driving off, I went inside to help with baggage and directions. Drop off means exactly that. Drop and go. Don't go in and have a coffee.
Too many people just abandon the car, hop out and when someone says something respond with abuse and threats of violence.
The Irish have a serious problems with rules and regulations, i.e. going out of their way to break them and be obnoxious about it. The ongoing debate about parent and child spaces proves exactly that. Are you fcuking 5 years old? What next? Rolling on the floor and throwing a hissy fit? Grow the fcuk up!
You would not see it on the continent, I tell my family in Germany that people here just coast up to the door of the supermarket and abandon their car across disabled spaces and blocking the door. They think I'm winding them up.
An Italian work colleague observed that people here are lunatics on the road and he cannot believe how obnoxious people are.
Sorry, but the only word I can use to describe this is mucksavages.
99.9% of people who get clamped deserve it and IMO anyone who complains and they are found to be wrong, should have their fine doubled.
There is no excuse and I always manage to park legally, so it should not be beyond anyone to do so.
Sorry, but a society functions on rules.
If you don't like them, either try to change them or kindly GTFO.

markpb

Jumboman wrote: »

Someone should put a clamp on the Judges car and see how he likes it.

Maybe be parks legally / in accordance with property owners requests?

SeanW

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Always the same sh*te.
Park legally and you won't be clamped. I have zero sympathy for people complaining about being clamped. I have never once being clamped, though there was a close call at Dublin Airport. Had I been 1 minute later, it would have been too late. But they where completely right to clamp me. I was dropping someone off, but instead of driving off, I went inside to help with baggage and directions. Drop off means exactly that. Drop and go. Don't go in and have a coffee.

That's what parking fines are for. Clamping for non-payment type offenses is IMO disproportionate.

You would not see it on the continent, I tell my family in Germany that people here just coast up to the door of the supermarket and abandon their car across disabled spaces and blocking the door. They think I'm winding them up.

Where do you live that this kind of thing is common? By far the worst example of illegal parking I have ever seen around here is somoene parking over 3 spaces in an empty car park. And even that is rare.

There is no excuse and I always manage to park legally, so it should not be beyond anyone to do so.
Sorry, but a society functions on rules.

Yes, but it also functions on the proportionality of response to rulebreaking. By rights:

1. Minor offenses such as non-payment for a short time or time expired should be dealt with via a fine.
2. Major offenses such as parking in an unsafe way or where there should not be cars parked, should be dealt with by a tow-away regime as is common in the U.S.
3. Clamping really ought to be reserved for cases where a lot of unpaid fines were accumulated to a single registration or against vehicles that fines are unenforceable.

In most cases, clamping is overkill.

Jumboman

markpb wrote: »

Maybe be parks legally / in accordance with property owners requests?

I got clamped after 3mins for parking outside my grandmothers house by dublin city clampers I was not taking anyones space.

I think whole clamping industy is a scam. A taxi driver told me that he got clamped after he got out of this car to help a woman with her luggage.

If your blocking an entrance fair enough you should be moved but if your not causing any problems then you should not be clamped also they should wait atleast 5mins before they clamp someone.

Clamping should be considered as an anti social behaviour.


BTW it would be great if we had someone like angle grinder man to liberate peoples cars in Dublin.

dr.fuzzenstein

Post edited as posting in wrong thread, whoops!

keithsfleet

Jumboman wrote: »

BTW it would be great if we had someone like angle grinder man to liberate peoples cars in Dublin.

He only does it as an excuse to wear the costume.

Back on topic, anyone know who the clampers were in the OP, County council or private?

branie

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Always the same sh*te.
Park legally and you won't be clamped. I have zero sympathy for people complaining about being clamped. I have never once being clamped, though there was a close call at Dublin Airport. Had I been 1 minute later, it would have been too late. But they where completely right to clamp me. I was dropping someone off, but instead of driving off, I went inside to help with baggage and directions. Drop off means exactly that. Drop and go. Don't go in and have a coffee.
Too many people just abandon the car, hop out and when someone says something respond with abuse and threats of violence.
The Irish have a serious problems with rules and regulations, i.e. going out of their way to break them and be obnoxious about it. The ongoing debate about parent and child spaces proves exactly that. Are you fcuking 5 years old? What next? Rolling on the floor and throwing a hissy fit? Grow the fcuk up!
You would not see it on the continent, I tell my family in Germany that people here just coast up to the door of the supermarket and abandon their car across disabled spaces and blocking the door. They think I'm winding them up.
An Italian work colleague observed that people here are lunatics on the road and he cannot believe how obnoxious people are.
Sorry, but the only word I can use to describe this is mucksavages.
99.9% of people who get clamped deserve it and IMO anyone who complains and they are found to be wrong, should have their fine doubled.
There is no excuse and I always manage to park legally, so it should not be beyond anyone to do so.
Sorry, but a society functions on rules.
If you don't like them, either try to change them or kindly GTFO.

So you approve of rogue clampers, who frogmarch people off to an atm, if they can't afford the fine?

HurtLocker

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Always the same sh*te.
Park legally and you won't be clamped. I have zero sympathy for people complaining about being clamped. I have never once being clamped, though there was a close call at Dublin Airport. Had I been 1 minute later, it would have been too late. But they where completely right to clamp me. I was dropping someone off, but instead of driving off, I went inside to help with baggage and directions. Drop off means exactly that. Drop and go. Don't go in and have a coffee.
Too many people just abandon their car, hop out and when someone says something respond with abuse and threats of violence.
The Irish have a serious problems with rules and regulations, i.e. going out of their way to break them and be obnoxious about it. The ongoing debate about parent and child spaces proves exactly that. Are you fcuking 5 years old? What next? Rolling on the floor and throwing a hissy fit? Grow the fcuk up!
You would not see it on the continent, I tell my family in Germany that people here just coast up to the door of the supermarket and abandon their car across disabled spaces and blocking the door. They think I'm winding them up.
An Italian work colleague observed that people here are lunatics on the road and he cannot believe how obnoxious people are.
Sorry, but the only word I can use to describe this is mucksavages.
99.9% of people who get clamped deserve it and IMO anyone who complains and they are found to be wrong, should have their fine doubled.
There is no excuse and I always manage to park legally, so it should not be beyond anyone to do so.
Sorry, but a society functions on rules.
If you don't like them, either try to change them or kindly GTFO.

Are you taking the piss?


You abuse this simple mechanism that is a drop off bay not a park and abandon your car to help a friend with his baggage. Then later on after a lot of chastising parking abusers and regirously explaining how a drop off sustem works even though you admit to abandoning you car in one you go on to claim that there are no excuses and people with them should have their fine doubled.

People or as you put them muck savages really piss me off at airports. It's a drop off area, so before you criticise us irish for our bad parking a bit of cop on from yourself. Your excuse is similar to people claim they are only speeding when they are caught.

Italians are some of the most aggressive drivers I've meet in my travels.

markpb

branie wrote: »

So you approve of rogue clampers, who frogmarch people off to an atm, if they can't afford the fine?

So you approve of rogue drivers who park blocking footpaths, cycle lanes, disabled parking spaces or who can't be bothered buying the right parking ticket.

Patrick2010

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Always the same sh*te.
Park legally and you won't be clamped. I have zero sympathy for people complaining about being clamped. I have never once being clamped, though there was a close call at Dublin Airport. Had I been 1 minute later, it would have been too late. But they where completely right to clamp me. I was dropping someone off, but instead of driving off, I went inside to help with baggage and directions. Drop off means exactly that. Drop and go. Don't go in and have a coffee.
Too many people just abandon the car, hop out and when someone says something respond with abuse and threats of violence.
The Irish have a serious problems with rules and regulations, i.e. going out of their way to break them and be obnoxious about it. The ongoing debate about parent and child spaces proves exactly that. Are you fcuking 5 years old? What next? Rolling on the floor and throwing a hissy fit? Grow the fcuk up!
You would not see it on the continent, I tell my family in Germany that people here just coast up to the door of the supermarket and abandon their car across disabled spaces and blocking the door. They think I'm winding them up.
An Italian work colleague observed that people here are lunatics on the road and he cannot believe how obnoxious people are.
Sorry, but the only word I can use to describe this is mucksavages.
99.9% of people who get clamped deserve it and IMO anyone who complains and they are found to be wrong, should have their fine doubled.
There is no excuse and I always manage to park legally, so it should not be beyond anyone to do so.
Sorry, but a society functions on rules.
If you don't like them, either try to change them or kindly GTFO.

Sorry, but that is really rich coming from an Italian!

branie

markpb wrote: »

So you approve of rogue drivers who park blocking footpaths, cycle lanes, disabled parking spaces or who can't be bothered buying the right parking ticket.

Rogue clampers are clampers who aren't licenced.

Guy:Incognito

SeanW wrote: »

That's what parking fines are for. Clamping for non-payment type offenses is IMO disproportionate.

Where do you live that this kind of thing is common? By far the worst example of illegal parking I have ever seen around here is somoene parking over 3 spaces in an empty car park. And even that is rare.

Yes, but it also functions on the proportionality of response to rulebreaking. By rights:

1. Minor offenses such as non-payment for a short time or time expired should be dealt with via a fine.
2. Major offenses such as parking in an unsafe way or where there should not be cars parked, should be dealt with by a tow-away regime as is common in the U.S.
3. Clamping really ought to be reserved for cases where a lot of unpaid fines were accumulated to a single registration or against vehicles that fines are unenforceable.

In most cases, clamping is overkill.

Whos going to pay a fine issued by a private landowner?

Guy:Incognito

Jumboman wrote: »

I think whole clamping industy is a scam. A taxi driver told me that he got clamped after he got out of this car to help a woman with her luggage.

If your blocking an entrance fair enough you should be moved but if your not causing any problems then you should not be clamped also they should wait atleast 5mins before they clamp someone.

Im not buying that for a second . They dont drop in out of nowhere and clamp in seconds. The van would have pulled up, lads got out for a look, go get the clamp , then come back to clamp in. At no stage in this did the taxi man decide to just get in the car and drive off? More like he dumped his car , possibly with the hazards on , and pissed off for about 20 mins

Jumboman

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Im not buying that for a second . They dont drop in out of nowhere and clamp in seconds. The van would have pulled up, lads got out for a look, go get the clamp , then come back to clamp in. At no stage in this did the taxi man decide to just get in the car and drive off? More like he dumped his car , possibly with the hazards on , and pissed off for about 20 mins

I was clamped within 3 mins so I know for a fact they are very fast.

Guy:Incognito

Jumboman wrote: »

I was clamped within 3 mins so I know for a fact they are very fast.

You "know" based on the story from the most put upon minority in the country, the poor aul taximan.

Sure if he was helping a customer get their bags out hed only have been at the back of the car.

SeanW

markpb wrote: »

So you approve of rogue drivers who park blocking footpaths, cycle lanes, disabled parking spaces

Should be towed away - it's in everyones interests

or who can't be bothered buying the right parking ticket.

Someone who, for whatever reason, doesn't have the proper parking payment should be fined a sensible fine.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Whos going to pay a fine issued by a private landowner?

If the "private landowners" are in the business of providing parking, then their fines should ideally be legally enforceable if somoene hasn't paid etc. As with 'council' fines, clamping should remain as a drastic last resort for someone who has a load of unpaid fines, regardless of whether publically or privately issued.

On the other hand, if the "private landowner" does not have a carpark or is dealing with someone who has abandoned their car or otherwise parked irresponsibly or without permission, they should have the option of calling for a police tow-away.

Jumboman

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You "know" based on the story from the most put upon minority in the country, the poor aul taximan.

Sure if he was helping a customer get their bags out hed only have been at the back of the car.

No it happend to me directly the taxi man getting clamped is another story.

Guy:Incognito

Jumboman wrote: »

No it happend to me directly the taxi man getting clamped is another story.

Fair enough I assume the I at the start was a mistyped it. As for the 3 minutes, generally the people "only nipping in for a minute" cause the most issues.

Jumboman

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Fair enough I assume the I at the start was a mistyped it. As for the 3 minutes, generally the people "only nipping in for a minute" cause the most issues.

The bastard clampers were still there when I got back I told them my grandmother was letting me park outside her house but they wouldnt listen to anything I said the guy who clapmed me had a big grin on his face I could see he was getting off on having power over me. They really are the Scum of the earth. Next time you see a clamper ask them why they cant get a real job.

djimi

Jumboman wrote: »

They really are the Scum of the earth. Next time you see a clamper ask them why they cant get a real job.

And you wonder why they take pleasure in sticking to the black and white letter of the rule book? Cant say that I agree with how they go about their business, but if someone ever said that to me just for doing my job then Id take great pleasure in clamping their car and ignoring their calls for an hour or two.

Jumboman

djimi wrote: »

And you wonder why they take pleasure in sticking to the black and white letter of the rule book? Cant say that I agree with how they go about their business, but if someone ever said that to me just for doing my job then Id take great pleasure in clamping their car and ignoring their calls for an hour or two.

I politely told the clamper that I had permission to park in the space yet he wouldnt listen to anything I said and basically told me to f**k off he acted like a bully.
If thats not a Scumbag then I dont know what is.

Also I dont buy its their job to be rude and ignorant or to get off on clamping people.

djimi

Jumboman wrote: »

I politely told the clamper that I had permission to park in the space yet he wouldnt listen to anything I said and basically told me to f**k off he acted like a bully.
If thats not a Scumbag then I dont know what is.

Also I dont buy its their job to be rude and ignorant or to get off on clamping people.

Unless your grandmother is the person who hired the clamping company, you did not have permission to park there unless you were abiding my the terms of the car park (Im guessing you needed to have a permit or something like that?)

As I said, I dont always agree with the way that clampers go about their business, but such an "us vs them" mentality has been built up they are probably just expecting a fight every time they deal with someone now. Doesnt excuse the rudeness (not that they have any obligation to be nice to you if they dont want to be; youre not a customer of theirs), but Id say its a monumentally **** job when everyone out there thinks you are the scum of the earth for just doing your job.

dr.fuzzenstein

HurtLocker wrote: »

Are you taking the piss?


You abuse this simple mechanism that is a drop off bay not a park and abandon your car to help a friend with his baggage. Then later on after a lot of chastising parking abusers and regirously explaining how a drop off sustem works even though you admit to abandoning you car in one you go on to claim that there are no excuses and people with them should have their fine doubled.

People or as you put them muck savages really piss me off at airports. It's a drop off area, so before you criticise us irish for our bad parking a bit of cop on from yourself. Your excuse is similar to people claim they are only speeding when they are caught.

Italians are some of the most aggressive drivers I've meet in my travels.

OK, I'm going to bite: (if I interpret your post correctly, had to read it 5 times)
My whole POINT is that I stopped at the drop off zone, helped my friend with the bags and narrowly escaped being clamped.
Had I been clamped What would I have done?
Would I have jumped up and down, asked the clampers if they're mother is proud of them, threatened them (as I'm sure many scumbags do), cried, posted a rant on boards about those bastard clampers, appealed, cut the clamp off and so on?
No, I would have said sorry (which I did), paid up and not done it again.
In fact I haven't been clamped since or had a ticket. (well, actually never been clamped)
It seems that a lot of people do not learn from being clamped.
I had no problem with Italian drivers (or Germans, French, English, or anywhere else in Europe), at least they drive spirited. I would describe the Irish driving style as wet and limp wristed.

mgbgt1978

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I had no problem with Italian drivers (or Germans, French, English, or anywhere else in Europe), at least they drive spirited. I would describe the Irish driving style as wet and limp wristed.

1 word Fuzz......Donegal

Jumboman

Charles Bronson wouldnt take any sh!t from clampers.

Tigger

Jumboman wrote: »

I got clamped after 3mins for parking outside my grandmothers house by dublin city clampers I was not taking anyones space.

I think whole clamping industy is a scam. A taxi driver told me that he got clamped after he got out of this car to help a woman with her luggage.

If your blocking an entrance fair enough you should be moved but if your not causing any problems then you should not be clamped also they should wait atleast 5mins before they clamp someone.

Clamping should be considered as an anti social behaviour.


BTW it would be great if we had someone like angle grinder man to liberate peoples cars in Dublin.

those sparks will have settled into his clearcoat

Jumboman

I was in dublin city centre today I saw a dublin city clamper van parked on double yellow lines which was blocking the flow of traffic. The arrogance of these clampsters is unbelievable:mad:

periodictable

Typical- the Irish fcuking over the Irish-we don't need the Germans or anyone else to do it.

bumper234

periodictable wrote: »

Typical- the Irish fcuking over the Irish-we don't need the Germans or anyone else to do it.

When did the Germans "Fcuk" us over?

L1011

djimi wrote: »

Anyone hired to clamp on private property, with the permission of the owner of said property, has grounds for believing they had lawful authority to act imo. It certainly doesnt make it as clear cut as some would have you believe.

All this does is transfer the offence to the owner issuing the invalid "authority". Its also fairly easy to argue that a large clamping firm cannot plead any ignorance of the law.

periodictable

bumper234 wrote: »

When did the Germans "Fcuk" us over?

You been asleep the last 5 years?

bumper234

periodictable wrote: »

You been asleep the last 5 years?

Look back and see what happened. The IRISH (bankers) fcuked us the Germans lent us money to keep the banks open.

Jumboman

Scumbag clampsters got a taste of their own medicine:D

http://www.thejournal.ie/clampers/news/