Using the car outside Ireland for a few months

bear1

I'm being transferred abroad for a few months whilst a project is being completed and I am taking my car with me as I will have a lot of stuff to bring.
My cars tax is due to run out at the end of June and I'm leaving in a days.
As I wont need to pay Irish road tax cause I'm not in the country, how do I go about sorting this tax problem out?
Cause in Rosslare when I get back the tax could be out of date for probably 6 months and I also dont want a black record with Shannon and then pay a fortune when I retax it.
I was hoping maybe I could just send a email to Shannon requesting exemption from the tax until I return.

Feasible?

Anan1

bear1 wrote: »

I'm being transferred abroad for a few months whilst a project is being completed and I am taking my car with me as I will have a lot of stuff to bring.
My cars tax is due to run out at the end of June and I'm leaving in a days.
As I wont need to pay Irish road tax cause I'm not in the country, how do I go about sorting this tax problem out?
Cause in Rosslare when I get back the tax could be out of date for probably 6 months and I also dont want a black record with Shannon and then pay a fortune when I retax it.
I was hoping maybe I could just send a email to Shannon requesting exemption from the tax until I return.

Feasible?

AFAIK your car will still need to be road-legal in its home country while abroad - ie you will still need to keep it taxed.

Henry Ford III

Nope. Your car must be taxed somewhere.

bear1

Thing is, I'm going to Poland where the tax is included in the fuel costs so I will be paying "road" tax there.. So in other words I havent got a pot to pi33 in

Henry Ford III

bear1 wrote: »

Thing is, I'm going to Poland where the tax is included in the fuel costs so I will be paying "road" tax there.. So in other words I havent got a pot to pi33 in

Doesn't matter. You still have to tax the car in Ireland.

peteb2

And minimum cover only will apply insurance wise - so third party only. No fire, no theft, no accidental damage.

Anan1

peteb2 wrote: »

And minimum cover only will apply insurance wise - so third party only. No fire, no theft, no accidental damage.

That depends on his ins co - some will cover comprehensively while abroad.

bear1

Insurance isn't a problem, was on the phone to AXA and for now I've got the 31 days cover (need to find a company that does unlimited EU travel) and as the car is comp the confirmed it will be comp in the EU as well.

Doesn't matter. You still have to tax the car in Ireland.

^^^ Quite unfair

Henry Ford III

bear1 wrote: »

^^^ Quite unfair

Agreed. Many things sadly are quite unfair though.

Anan1

bear1 wrote: »

and I am taking my car with me as I will have a lot of stuff to bring.

If you only need the car for this then you might consider posting your stuff and flying? It's a lot nicer than driving, and cheaper too.

bear1

Honestly can't see why motor tax is such a rip-off in Ireland!
For my 1.9 car in the UK its 140 pounds per year which is about 160e... In Ireland, 673e!! talk about being ass raped

peteb2

Anan1 wrote: »

That depends on his ins co - some will cover comprehensively while abroad.

For 31 days unless stated otherwise on his policy and agreed with insurers. But standard is 31 within the EU

bear1

If you only need the car for this then you might consider posting your stuff and flying? It's a lot nicer than driving, and cheaper too.

I'll need the car for communting as well so it works out cheaper than renting cars etc

joujoujou

Maybe cheaper, but a bit unsafe - driving RHD car in LHD country for such a long time.

Sam Russell

Buy a LHD car in Poland or a nearby country and drive that, and sell it when you leave. If you buy well, you might bring it back with you. You might be able to do a transfer of residence and escape the VRT.

bear1

cars are not that cheap over there, I had thought of the idea. Also to avoid the VRT I would need to keep the car for a year and keep all proof that I've had it a year before I'm exempt from paying VRT.
Re safety: I've done it many times and I didn't find it a problem, only roundabouts can be confusing.
Also I think to buy a car in PL I need to be a Polish resident, open to correction on this.

rugbyman

Bear 1

re the importation ,vrt free, of your projected import, you are only entitled to bringit home free after one year, but the revenue can look at the case after six months and may ok it. You wont know that till then.bringing back a left hooker ordinary car will not gain you anything.

Buy something nice in the Uk, use it in Poland and perhaps gain.

re those who say you need tax abroad, they are right, but it is completely irrelevant when you leave Ireland.

This ,needing irish tax abroad is an often talked about thing , but let me assure you it is notgoing to matter. The theory behind this is that one must be legal in ones own country, but if you are in a country where there is no road tax ,like Poland or France no one will look for it.

If there were to be a placewhere this would be an issue ,it should be The Uk, but have never heard of it being a problem.

Against what I have just said about the Uk, my brother in law paked his ROI reg car in Belfast 20 years ago withtax out of date. He got a letter from DVLA Coleraine asking for the amount of tax, that he had not paid, cannot remember the exact details.

Work away Bear 1, hardly a banning offence this

Regards Rugbyman

P.s. the amazing thing bout the Coleraine money demand was that it was at the ROI rate of motor tax

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Doesn't matter. You still have to tax the car in Ireland.

No he doesn't.
He will be perfectly legal to drive an untaxed Irish registered car in Poland.
I can guarantee you that and if you wish I can support it with links to all necessary Polish legislation if you are interested (however they will be in Polish).

CiniO

bear1 wrote: »

I'm being transferred abroad for a few months whilst a project is being completed and I am taking my car with me as I will have a lot of stuff to bring.
My cars tax is due to run out at the end of June and I'm leaving in a days.
As I wont need to pay Irish road tax cause I'm not in the country, how do I go about sorting this tax problem out?
Cause in Rosslare when I get back the tax could be out of date for probably 6 months and I also dont want a black record with Shannon and then pay a fortune when I retax it.
I was hoping maybe I could just send a email to Shannon requesting exemption from the tax until I return.

Feasible?

When you are back, and want to stay legal, just park your car in the port, and go to garda station to declare the car was off the public place (this applies to public place in Ireland so you won't be making false declaration) and then tax it from there and then.

Possibly there might be a new legislation coming in force at some stage this year requiring to declare it beforehand, but we don't really know how it's going to look like, so it's hard to predict what the story will be.

CiniO

peteb2 wrote: »

For 31 days unless stated otherwise on his policy and agreed with insurers. But standard is 31 within the EU

Where does it say 31 days is standard and if otherwise it must be stated in the policy? Is it in some insurance legislation?
Never heard of it.

AFAIK every insurer might apply his own rules.

CiniO

joujoujou wrote: »

Maybe cheaper, but a bit unsafe - driving RHD car in LHD country for such a long time.

Why unsafe?
If it's safe to drive for 1 day, it's the same safe to drive for 6 months.

I've driven over 40,000km on the Continent (mostly in Poland) in RHD cars, and I don't reckon it's unsafe.

CiniO

bear1 wrote: »

cars are not that cheap over there, I had thought of the idea. Also to avoid the VRT I would need to keep the car for a year and keep all proof that I've had it a year before I'm exempt from paying VRT.

I thought you needed to own the car only for 6 months abroad to be exempt from VRT.
But anyway - you'd need to be resident there, and I doubt you will be in Poland as you said you were going there only for few months.
Very little point in importing an LHD car from Poland to Ireland to avoid VRT.

Also I think to buy a car in PL I need to be a Polish resident, open to correction on this.

[/QUOTE]
In theory YES - you need to be resident in any country to legally buy and register a car in your name there.
The same applies to Poland.

In practice, you could probably buy a car and instead of registering it in your name, just keep driving on previous owner papers and insurance.
However when insurance runs out (this might be anytime between 1 day and 1 year) you won't be able to purchase new one as non-resident. But surely you could find a car to buy with insurance valid for more than you will need (f.e. more than 6 months) - just to explain - third party insurance is transferred with car to new owner, so if the seller just bough policy a month before sale, car will be insured for another 11 months.

Also there is a legal requirement to register a car in your name within 30 days, but in practice there are no fines for not doing so.
So you would barely go into trouble by keeping it in old owner name.


Anyway - bringing your own car from Ireland is probably not a bad idea.
You really don't need to worry about tax.
When driving in Poland make sure you have your VRC and Insurance Cert with you at all times when driving. Also NCT cert (or at least disc) might come in handy during road check, and believe me - you will encounter plenty of them (during few months at least a few roadchecks).

bear1

Bear 1

re the importation ,vrt free, of your projected import, you are only entitled to bringit home free after one year, but the revenue can look at the case after six months and may ok it. You wont know that till then.bringing back a left hooker ordinary car will not gain you anything.

Buy something nice in the Uk, use it in Poland and perhaps gain.

re those who say you need tax abroad, they are right, but it is completely irrelevant when you leave Ireland.

This ,needing irish tax abroad is an often talked about thing , but let me assure you it is notgoing to matter. The theory behind this is that one must be legal in ones own country, but if you are in a country where there is no road tax ,like Poland or France no one will look for it.

If there were to be a placewhere this would be an issue ,it should be The Uk, but have never heard of it being a problem.

Against what I have just said about the Uk, my brother in law paked his ROI reg car in Belfast 20 years ago withtax out of date. He got a letter from DVLA Coleraine asking for the amount of tax, that he had not paid, cannot remember the exact details.

Work away Bear 1, hardly a banning offence this

Regards Rugbyman

P.s. the amazing thing bout the Coleraine money demand was that it was at the ROI rate of motor tax

Sound advice there, thanks a lot

@Cinio = Thanks for the whole updates and everything, very useful. It wont be my first time driving from Ireland to Poland as the wife is from Bialystok so I'm a regular visitor - plus I like driving in Europe (except France - bloody expensive)
I think I'm going to let the tax just run out and then when I get back I'll just declare off the road - I'll have proof anyway and tax it from then on.
Insurance is all sorted and once the 31 days are over I'll transfer it to FBD as its unlimited.
I've rarely been stopped in PL and I've been told that police there dont like stopping UK/IRL cars as they may not be able to communicate.
I won't bother with the buying a car to avoid vrt rubbish etc - more hassle than its worth and anyway cars are a bomb over there.
Thanks everyone for the advise

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

No he doesn't.
He will be perfectly legal to drive an untaxed Irish registered car in Poland.
I can guarantee you that and if you wish I can support it with links to all necessary Polish legislation if you are interested (however they will be in Polish).

Fire away!

Poland (with road tax included in the price of fuel apparently) might be a red herring, but it's not an island so the OP will have to cross several countries untaxed.

I know that in N.I. and the UK (and possibly other countries too) that if an untaxed foreign car is detected and stopped there's every chance it'll be impounded.

But hey what the hell?

Del2005

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I know that in N.I. and the UK (and possibly other countries too) that if an untaxed foreign car is detected and stopped there's every chance it'll be impounded.

And if it's too late to bring you to court, they can't deal with non UK/NI residents by means of fixed penalty notices, you will be arrested and kept in the cells till the courts opens next.

bear1

Ok, In France there is no tax on cars, it is incorporated into the toll roads. Belgium has a road tax but its once a year so I would have to buy the tax that lasts a year but will be there only a few hours, Germany is the same story.
Poland has it included in the cost of fuel. So I'm not passing several countries without tax (on the way there I have tax) I'm going through 2 countries that require annual tax for a few hours.
By this assumption, any car that is temporarily brought into Ireland should be paying tax? I disagree. If I was staying there forever of course I would re-register it and be done with it.
I dont think the authorities will care about Irish tax as long as the cover has insurance.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

When you are back, and want to stay legal, just park your car in the port, and go to garda station to declare the car was off the public place (this applies to public place in Ireland so you won't be making false declaration) and then tax it from there and then.

Possibly there might be a new legislation coming in force at some stage this year requiring to declare it beforehand, but we don't really know how it's going to look like, so it's hard to predict what the story will be.

How do you propose getting the car off the boat without touching a public place and therefore requiring that the car be taxed? A port would not be private property; at least not any part of a port that you would be allowed to park the car for a prolonged period of time.

bear1

I think the port area is considered international territory, just like at the airport its not Irish soil, only when you walk outside. I think I'm right in saying this

joujoujou

CiniO wrote: »

Why unsafe?
If it's safe to drive for 1 day, it's the same safe to drive for 6 months.

I've driven over 40,000km on the Continent (mostly in Poland) in RHD cars, and I don't reckon it's unsafe.

It's not safe to overtake while driving an RHD car in LHD traffic, at least not so easy as LHD. Because. :P

keithclancy

I'd echo what Cinio said ... tons of people here with Irish cars and have no Motor Tax.

In fact most people don't even display it on the Windscreen as theres no requirement here to do so.

Nemeses

keithclancy wrote: »

In fact most people don't even display it on the Windscreen as theres no requirement here to do so.

By law in Ireland it is required to display your tax on your windscreen.

Quoted from: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/motor_tax_and_insurance/motor_tax_rates.html

"Not only are you obliged by law to pay motor tax to drive your vehicle, you are also required to display evidence that you have paid (i.e., a current tax disc) on the windscreen of your vehicle. Failure to display a current tax disc on your vehicle is considered a motoring offence and will result in a €60 fixed-charge fine issued by a traffic warden or a Garda."

djimi

Nemeses wrote: »

By law in Ireland it is required to display your tax on your windscreen.

Quoted from: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/motor_tax_and_insurance/motor_tax_rates.html

"Not only are you obliged by law to pay motor tax to drive your vehicle, you are also required to display evidence that you have paid (i.e., a current tax disc) on the windscreen of your vehicle. Failure to display a current tax disc on your vehicle is considered a motoring offence and will result in a €60 fixed-charge fine issued by a traffic warden or a Garda."

Keith isnt in Ireland.

Nemeses

djimi wrote: »

Keith isnt in Ireland.

Ah, Now I feel stupid.

djimi

bear1 wrote: »

I think the port area is considered international territory, just like at the airport its not Irish soil, only when you walk outside. I think I'm right in saying this

Fair enough, Ill take your word on that!

bear1

I could be wrong though this type of no mans land

Valetta

OP just leave the old tax disc on the windscreen and if asked tell them that the date shown is when the tax starts from.

They'll never know.

bear1

OP just leave the old tax disc on the windscreen and if asked tell them that the date shown is when the tax starts from.

They'll never know.

Hmm hadn't thought of that, would be unusual but I doubt they would go searching the internet at the side of the road for proof

galwaytt

I know people who've had Irish vehicles in Spain for years..........on trade plates !

vibe666

is there any reason why he can't re-register his irish car in poland for the duration and then re-register here when he comes back?

cheaper insurance, no road tax and just the cost of re-registering it on both sides and no VRT as he's already owned it for more than 6 months.

or am i missing something?

bear1

Poland for now doesn't allow RHD cars to be registered unless they are vintage. The EU took them to court quite rightly as its a breach of free trade. So they are currently amending the law so that Poles in Ireland/UK can register their cars in PL, and they get 2 benefits from this:

1) the car would be RHD but with PL insurance and no tax so easy for them to drive them on the left
2) Cars are cheaper here and UK than there (or even most EU countries) so there would be a good amount of RHD cars coming into the PL market so good trade

So no, I cant for now register the car, and even still I wouldnt want to do it... and I couldnt anyway as I'm not resident

EDIT: it isnt cheap either to do it

Capt'n Midnight

bear1 wrote: »

Honestly can't see why motor tax is such a rip-off in Ireland!
For my 1.9 car in the UK its 140 pounds per year which is about 160e... In Ireland, 673e!! talk about being ass raped

that's nothing

Enter your car's details here to see how much an Irish license plate will cost.
https://www.ros.ie/evrt-enquiry/vrtenquiry.html?execution=e1s2

bear1

Its coming up at 460e... not that bad tbh.

ted1

bear1 wrote: »

Honestly can't see why motor tax is such a rip-off in Ireland!
For my 1.9 car in the UK its 140 pounds per year which is about 160e... In Ireland, 673e!! talk about being ass raped

A population of 69 million via 4.5 million economies of scale come in to it

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

How do you propose getting the car off the boat without touching a public place and therefore requiring that the car be taxed?

Car needs to be taxed only if being used (driven or parked) on "public road" (not "public place").

A port would not be private property; at least not any part of a port that you would be allowed to park the car for a prolonged period of time.

I'm pretty sure you could find a parking place in the port which isn't public road.

CiniO

joujoujou wrote: »

It's not safe to overtake while driving an RHD car in LHD traffic, at least not so easy as LHD. Because. :P

It's definitely harder to overtake, and in some instance quite impossible, but it doesn't make it unsafe, unless someone is complete idiot and pulls to the left side of the road without being sure it's clear to have a look if it's safe to overtake.

CiniO

vibe666 wrote: »

is there any reason why he can't re-register his irish car in poland for the duration and then re-register here when he comes back?

cheaper insurance, no road tax and just the cost of re-registering it on both sides and no VRT as he's already owned it for more than 6 months.

or am i missing something?

As bear1 already said.
Firstly it's impossible to register RHD car.
Secondly even if it was possible OP wouldn't be able to do it as he won't become resident in Poland.
And thirdly even if it was possible it would cost quite a bit.
When importing a vehicle there is a levy to pay of around 3% of car value for car up to 2000cc and about 18% for bigger engine cars.
Also plenty of other fees, like recycling fee of over 100 euros. Registration fees. Custom fees. Fee for issuing registration certificate, and vehicle card. Fee for issuing set of numberplates. All those depending on the car could cost more than 250 euros + those 3% or 18% levy.

Sobanek

CiniO wrote: »

As bear1 already said.
Firstly it's impossible to register RHD car.
Secondly even if it was possible OP wouldn't be able to do it as he won't become resident in Poland.
And thirdly even if it was possible it would cost quite a bit.
When importing a vehicle there is a levy to pay of around 3% of car value for car up to 2000cc and about 18% for bigger engine cars.
Also plenty of other fees, like recycling fee of over 100 euros. Registration fees. Custom fees. Fee for issuing registration certificate, and vehicle card. Fee for issuing set of numberplates. All those depending on the car could cost more than 250 euros + those 3% or 18% levy.

It usually is cheaper than VRT in Ireland though.

CiniO

bear1 wrote: »

I've rarely been stopped in PL

See it probably depends on a region.
In my home city I usually get pulled over few times a month.
I believe though that around Bialystok there might be less police checks.

and I've been told that police there dont like stopping UK/IRL cars as they may not be able to communicate.

Heh.
I'd say about 99% of UK and Irish registered car on Polish roads are being driven by Polish nationals.
Probably some police might be wary of stopping them, as they just don't know the procedures, but that's probably rarely cases.
This winter I've beed pulled over once, and policeman told me with a smile on his face - I've stopped you because I've seen you are sitting on passenger place, so I wanted to find out what's the story

CiniO

Sobanek wrote: »

It usually is cheaper than VRT in Ireland though.

Oh it surely is, but it doesn't mean it's cheap.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Poland (with road tax included in the price of fuel apparently)

bear1 wrote: »

Poland has it included in the cost of fuel

That's not entirely true, but for some reason everyone seems to repeat it.

Motortax (or roadtax whatever you call it) is charged in Poland but only from heavy vehicles like trucks and buses (over 3.5tonne).
Passenger cars and vans don't pay motor tax.

It's not included in fuel price.
Obviously fuel prices consists of high levy, but that's the case in every EU country. No one ever said that there is any motortax charged with price of fuel.

AFAIR in the old days passenger cars and vans were also charged motor tax like in Ireland but this idea was dropped in 1997.
That tax was collected by local authorities and was meant to be used for road maintenance. Since 1997 government decided to pay to local authorities for road maintenance, but this didn't cause fuel levy to rise.

I know it's a detail, but point is that motor tax in Poland is not included in fuel. There just isn't any motor tax for cars and vans.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Fire away!

In short.
From Polish road traffic act.

Art 71.
(...)
5. Pojazd zarejestrowany za granicą dopuszcza się do ruchu, jeżeli odpowiada wymaganym warunkom technicznym i jest zaopatrzony w tablice rejestracyjne z numerem rejestracyjnym składającym się z liter alfabetu łacińskiego i cyfr arabskich, z zastrzeżeniem art. 59 ust. 2 i 3, a kierujący pojazdem ma przy sobie dokument stwierdzający dokonanie rejestracji.

Translation:

Vehicle registered abroad can be allowed in traffic, if it fulfils appropriate technical requirements and displays number plates which shows registration number in latin alphabet letters and arabic numerals, notwithstanding art. 59 point 2 and 3, and driver carries a document confirming registartion.

Art 59, point 2 and 3 refers to foreign vehicles display country mark like IRL on Irish registered car, and this requirement is fulfilled when IRL sign is part of numberplate like any Irish numberplate.

By document confirming registration they mean "vehicle registration certificate".

And technical requirements are described in difference act, which states that vehicle registered abroad must fulfil requirement for vehicles in international traffic from Vienna convention on road traffic from 1968.

No tax is required.

And I believe that's the was regulations are constructed in most countries on the continent even in those that do charge motor tax in similar way as Ireland.
All those countries were signatories of Vienna convention, and they just can't put any extra requirements.

Poland (with road tax included in the price of fuel apparently) might be a red herring, but it's not an island so the OP will have to cross several countries untaxed.

I know that in N.I. and the UK (and possibly other countries too) that if an untaxed foreign car is detected and stopped there's every chance it'll be impounded.

We had a discussion on it, and while in UK and NI chances are for this to happen, they are rather small, and if it's really done (car impounded) this will be done unlawfully.