Ex TCD student caught importing €29m cocaine, but sure consider his "background"

ninjabox

Here's the link:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/trinity-graduate-jailed-for-15-years-over-29m-cocaine-haul-29333358.html

Why is it that when people with certain "backgrounds" are caught breaking the law their solicitors are allowed to claim they should be treated differently, in the case above they said this guy could "again be a worthwhile member of the community".

We're not supposed to live in a class-based society so why are solicitors allowed to harp on about this drug dealers "background". Where someone comes from, or whether they went to college (even TCD) does not tell you anything about their character.

The Backwards Man

It's your solicitor's job to try and get you off, that's what you pay him for.
He got sent down, what's the problem.

Valetta

Solicitors or barristers can say what they like (within reason).

Doesn't mean the court has to pay any heed.

ninjabox

Just the general attitude that people from their own background, i.e. the same background as the solicitors etc deserve to get special treatment.

dodderangler

The Backwards Man wrote: »

It's your solicitor's job to try and get you off, that's what you pay him for.
He got sent down, what's the problem.

The Irish laws is the problem
15 years for that but can murder someone and get 8 years?

Turtyturd

Lower class scumbags play the background card just as much.

Seachmall

ninjabox wrote: »

Why is it that when people with certain "backgrounds" are caught breaking the law their solicitors are allowed to claim they should be treated differently, in the case above they said this guy could "again be a worthwhile member of the community". We're not supposed to live in a class-based society so why are solicitors allowed to harp on about this drug dealers "background".

Because their job is to represent the accused and to try and get them as small a sentence as possible.

It's the judges job to decide if those arguments are valid, and it's with the judge we expect the classless justice system to be enforced.

The King of Moo

I hereby call for all Trinity alumni and students to be sterilised. It's the only way we can be sure these vermin don't spawn any potential Trinity students.

MadsL

He got a tougher sentence than 3 scummers who kicked a man to death. Drugs eh?

ArmaniJeanss

ninjabox wrote: »

Just the general attitude that people from their own background, i.e. the same background as the solicitors etc deserve to get special treatment.

If the defendant was from a different area then the solicitor would talk about his bad childhood, early exit from education, violent death of his brother etc as mitigation.

So its not a Foxrock conspiracy.

pawspaws

dodderangler wrote: »

The Irish laws is the problem
15 years for that but can murder someone and get 8 years?

Nah bud, the mandatory sentence for murder is life, best you can hope for is supervised temporary release after 17 years.

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

He got a tougher sentence than 3 scummers who kicked a man to death. Drugs eh?

It's funny isn't it. Seems a dead or raped person, in the eyes of the Irish legal system, is worth about the same as 5m of cocaine.

Funny old world.

Grayson

He got 15 years with two suspended for his background. Or did I read that wrong. Hardly a huge difference.

garv123

The King of Moo wrote: »

I hereby call for all Trinity alumni and students to be sterilised. It's the only way we can be sure these vermin don't spawn any potential Trinity students.

Thats UL and Trinity taken care of so..

*Waits with pitchfork for next University student to slip up..

The King of Moo

Smuggling €29 million worth of cocaine is hardly a minor crime. There's lots of misery associated with it, including in its production and distribution.

Peregrine

.

CruelCoin

dodderangler wrote: »

The Irish laws is the problem
15 years for that but can murder someone and get 8 years?

Kill someone, one family's lives ruined.

Deal drugs, many families lives ruined.

Perspective dear Watson.

CruelCoin

CruelCoin wrote: »

Kill someone, one family's lives ruined.

Deal drugs, many families lives ruined.

Perspective dear Watson.

You could say the same for a few kegs of beer coming in. Hell, a batch of deodorant could kill or harm more people than this cocaine - if we're going to use your analogy.

Are we unable to judge the merits of a crime on the crime itself?

I am pie

What is the fuss about? He got 15 years, 2 of which were suspended. Hardly got off lightly!

Peregrine

CruelCoin wrote: »

Kill someone, one family's lives ruined.

Deal drugs, many families lives ruined.

Perspective dear Watson.

Not very good perspective.

To what extent would the families be ruined if someone was murdered?

Also, one family ruined if you kill someone? I'd say a lot of people would be ruined if someone close to them was murdered.

CruelCoin

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

You could say the same for a few kegs of beer coming in. Hell, a batch of deodorant could kill or harm more people than this cocaine - if we're going to use your analogy.

Are we unable to judge the merits of a crime on the crime itself?

Crime should be punished based on it's overall effect on society.

Not sure the last time i heard of a batch of killer deodorant, yet i hear about cocaine overdoses all the time.

FloatingVoter

Get upset when TCD give him an honorary doctorate for services to chemistry.

dissed doc

ninjabox wrote: »

We're not supposed to live in a class-based society so why are solicitors allowed to harp on about this drug dealers "background". Where someone comes from, or whether they went to college (even TCD) does not tell you anything about their character.

Says who? Someone's social background has a massive influence on the type of crime they commit and the physical danger to society they might represent.

ninjabox

Yea but its just the general attitude that family / educational background automatically makes you a better human being. No matter what horrible crimes a person commits they were automatically a better person from the start because of their background.

Ormus

The King of Moo wrote: »

Smuggling €29 million worth of cocaine is hardly a minor crime. There's lots of misery partying associated with it, including in its production and distribution.

Fixed

Karl Stein

CruelCoin wrote: »

Kill someone, one family's lives ruined.

Deal drugs, many families lives ruined.

Perspective dear Watson.

People want drugs. People enjoy taking drugs. Nobody wants to be killed.

Perspective.

Cody Pomeray

ninjabox wrote: »

Why is it that when people with certain "backgrounds" are caught breaking the law their solicitors are allowed to claim they should be treated differently, in the case above they said this guy could "again be a worthwhile member of the community".

That's a feature of most criminal cases.

It is not unusual for the Court to compensate a criminal for the strange vicissitudes of life. Suspects' backgrounds are often taken into account when a sentence is being determined, and special concessions are given for deprivation and mitigating circumstances.

In this case, it seems only logical the opposite of a concession should be handed down on the point of the guy's education, i.e. a harsher penalty would take account of the fact that he had profitable alternatives to crime, as opposed to your average drug mule.

However, you also have to balance that this guy is clearly of good character, has worked hard to get where he is in life,and may have had a short term lapse of judgement.

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Reminds me of when a TCD girl from a well-off background glassed a bartender and assaulted him and got away with a small fine

It seems he's not from a well off background. People are just drawing that assumption because he went to Trinity. He is from Cabra, and worked his way through college.

He said Hopkins had grown up in Cabra and he and his sisters had worked their way through college and excelled. One of his sisters died tragically in 2012.

Mr Marrinan said Hopkins had an interest in sport and had made a large number of substantial donations to charity between 2008 and 2011, as well as providing financial assistance to people he knew.

He said Hopkins works as a trustee in the gym in Cloverhill, has taken up music lessons and hopes to do a PhD while in custody. He has also become heavily involved in the prison waste management system in Cloverhill and was giving advice to improve recycling and reduce costs.

Good luck to him, hope he gets his PhD and is able to move on with building a future when he gets out.

Peregrine

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Good luck to him, hope he gets his PhD and is able to move on with building a future when he gets out.

You can get a PhD in prison??! I'd never be motivated to get a PhD if I was free, take me to Mountjoy I say!

But then again there is the whole soap thing..

Jester252

TBF if he was from a poor background and never went to 3rd level education his lawyers would try and get him less time due to his lack of education.

krudler

Turtyturd wrote: »

Lower class scumbags play the background card just as much.

Bingo, the "ah sure they never stood a chance" brigade

y0pperz

What concerns me more about this case is the lack of further prosecutions and this:

In later interviews he told gardai he had been “under duress” but later said he had been under financial pressure and general stress rather than physical duress from a third party.

The "third party" are usually violent murdering psychopaths in these cases, I know if I lost €30 million worth of someone's cocaine I'd be more worried about the other consequences than a lengthy prison sentence.

DaveDaRave

if only crime was legal

mathie

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

You can get a PhD in prison??!

I have a PhD in Pain.

CruelCoin

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

People want drugs. People enjoy taking drugs. Nobody wants to be killed.

Perspective.

Knackers want violence, knackers are violent. Nobody in limerick wants to be killed.

Whats you point? You can't fob off the effects of their behaviour on the basis that they enjoy it.

CruelCoin

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Not very good perspective.

To what extent would the families be ruined if someone was murdered?

Also, one family ruined if you kill someone? I'd say a lot of people would be ruined if someone close to them was murdered.

Someone murdered has their own life ruined, their family and close friends.

Someone dealing drugs, ruins their own life due to inevitable gangland murder/jailing, their own families lives due to social stigma, the lives of all their junkie customers and all their families when said junkie resorts to theft and violence to fuel the fix, society at large due to lost productivity for each and every junkie, as opposed to only 1 loss of productivity for murdered person and murderer.

On Balance, the dealer does more damage and loss to society, hence why they deserve higher sentences.

Seachmall

CruelCoin wrote: »

Someone dealing drugs, ruins their own life due to inevitable gangland murder/jailing, their own families lives due to social stigma, the lives of all their junkie customers and all their families when said junkie resorts to theft and violence to fuel the fix, society at large due to lost productivity for each and every junkie, as opposed to only 1 loss of productivity for murdered person and murderer.

What?

Do you hold your local pub to the same criticisms? That the drug they're supplying is destroying society and they are a menace?

MadsL

DaveDaRave wrote: »

if only crime cocaine was legal

FYP

Karl Stein

CruelCoin wrote: »

Whats you point?

It's your point that's obscure. You tried to draw a comparison between drug use (which is voluntary) and murder (which is never voluntary).

I was simply exposing your point for the gibberish that it is.

You can't fob off the effects of their behaviour on the basis that they enjoy it.

What effects? That they have a good time?

blue note

I did a tour of trinity today. The guide told us a story of a group of students who threw rocks at a particularly mean lecturer's window about 200 years ago. He got annoyed so took out his pistol and shot at them. They ran off, got their guns and fired back mortally wounding the mean lecturer. It was judged to be a college prank gone wrong and the case was thrown out. They were expelled however.

Karl Stein

CruelCoin wrote: »

the lives of all their junkie customers and all their families when said junkie resorts to theft and violence to fuel the fix, society at large due to lost productivity for each and every junkie.

Vivid caricatures. Drug use does not automatically mean the user is a 'junkie'. Hundreds of thousands of people use drugs (alcohol being the most used) and have perfectly productive lives.

steddyeddy

WellI don't have a problem with his background being brought up in court but I don't think his background should be a factor in getting a more lenient sentence. He had every chance in life and blew it. There are many people inlife who would love to be as lucky as he was in getting an education. That said I think the sentence was quite harsh considering the sentences rapists and murders seem to get here

CruelCoin

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Vivid caricatures. Drug use does not automatically mean the user is a 'junkie'. Hundreds of thousands of people use drugs (alcohol being the most used) and have perfectly productive lives.

Junkies, a grand bunch of lads.

That's what you're saying?

Karl Stein

CruelCoin wrote: »

Junkies, a grand bunch of lads.

That's what you're saying?

Oh I see. I thought you were interested in having a mature discussion.

Silly me.

CruelCoin

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

It's your point that's obscure. You tried to draw a comparison between drug use (which is voluntary) and murder (which is never voluntary).

I was simply exposing your point for the gibberish that it is.



What effects? That they have a good time?

Effects like choosing between feeding your kids or getting high, theft to fuel the addiction.
I'm not denying people have a good time, they do, but stop trying to say its the only effect.

CruelCoin

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Oh I see. I thought you were interested in having a mature discussion.

Silly me.

I think you're going to do your utmost to paint drug-users as being perfectly normal, happy-go-lucky individuals, when its very often far from the case.
I think you're going to resort to character assassination every time someone opposes your view.

Are we going to have a mature discussion? Not likely if you keep up the snide put-downs.

Turtwig

Pretty sure there was a case a few years back where the defendants team claimed the something similar and the judge basically told them well, if he had such a model upbringing then he should clearly have known better!

I agree with steadyeddy, people from harsher backgrounds deserve leeway but people who've come from the model pillars of society shouldn't get anything unless they were forced into crime by external circumstances. The argument "but he's an angel" doesn't wash.

kjl

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Reminds me of when a TCD girl from a well-off background glassed a bartender and assaulted him and got away with a small fine.

Background and gender coming to her rescue there. If a man from a not so well off family of North Dublin smashed a glass against a female bartender's face and nearly beat her to death, well that would have been a different story.

That one is a mixture between gender and background.

Karl Stein

CruelCoin wrote: »

Effects like choosing between feeding your kids or getting high, theft to fuel the addiction.
I'm not denying people have a good time, they do, but stop trying to say its the only effect.

You're highlighting drug abuse and poverty. Not every person who takes drugs is a destitute addict. Drug abuse is a bad thing and ruins people's lives, no doubt, but again, the vast majority of people who use drugs do not become destitute abusers.

Here's the thing. People have taken drugs for tens of thousands of years - it's a very human thing to do. Just because a bunch puritans, and others, decided to make certain drugs illegal a few decades ago will not change that fact. The tide is turning as regards prohibition. Many states in the US are moving to legalise marijuana. When legitimate companies start to make a profit, from once illegal drugs, and get into the lobbying game, begin to watch the dominoes fall.

EyeSight

regardless of whether you had a great or harsh upbringing, in the law you should be treated the same. with no special treatment.
This is not the case in Ireland. Most scumbags with tens of convictions get let off due to troubled upbringing

McCrack

This is a non-thread really. All this guy's defence team was pointing out to the Court at sentence a number of mitigating factors to consider which include his previous good character and education and his family background. That indicates to the Court that the likelihood of him re-offending is low.

There is nothing sinister in that and in fact if his defence team didn't put those pleadings to the Court they would probably be negligent themselves.

McCrack

EyeSight wrote: »

regardless of whether you had a great or harsh upbringing, in the law you should be treated the same. with no special treatment.
This is not the case in Ireland. Most scumbags with tens of convictions get let off due to troubled upbringing

No, not when a Court is deciding sentence because no two defendants are the same and consequently sentences given should not always be the same.