Buying a 1970's VW camper van

Dizzicizzi

Hi everyone!

I was just hoping to get some advice on buying a classic VW camper van. I have wanted one for as long as I can remember, preferably a 1970's split screen version. The problem is I have never before owned a classic car, though have always admired from afar. I guess I don't really know where to start to get my foot in the door of classic car bliss, apart from knowing I really want a VW camper! So if anyone has any advice or answers to the following questions and is willing to share experience, I would be a very happy woman!

Here come the questions (forgive me if they are silly questions but I am a complete novice and more than willing to admit my ignorance in the hopes of learning!)

1. Where are good places to start looking for such a car? I browse the internet keeping an eye out, but am a wee bit iffy buying a car like this from someone on gumtree or donedeal. These seem to be the only sites that have them for sale and ads are always by private sellers

2. When buying a car of this type, what should I be looking out for, as in what can go wrong that is different from buying a new car or is it much the same?

3. Are refurbished classic cars safer? Are they worse? Are they still classics even if refurbished to within an inch of their lives? I really want something authentic but in good working order! I intend to use this car, not just have it sitting in my driveway.

4. In the event of something needing fixed, are parts for this particular car impossible to get? I am led to believe the type of engine they have can be fixed most of the time with a hammer and a screwdriver lol though I find this hard to believe.

5. Can someone explain how tax and insurance work for classic cars?

And finally

6. Anyone out there own a VW camper and willing to give me the low down on actually owning one? The pros and cons, difficulties and so on.

If you stuck with that, thank you and I look forward to any and all input

Red Kev

1. Websites such as donedeal.ie, adverts.ie are a start to browse prices, or try specialist sites such as eircooled. Cozyclassics in Greenogue beside Rathcoole do them up, friend of mine got one there three years ago, it's essentially a new van, so maybe take a trip out there and you'll get a good idea of what's involved in putting one back on the road.

2. Rust, Rust, Rust, mechanicals tend ot be reliable enough, as I said go to cozyclassics and have a look at some of the stripped down vans there and you'll see what's involved. You can buy a running repair for €5000-8000, my friend paid near €20,000 for hers but it's like new inside and out.

3.Some things like upgraded brakes, unleadede engines etc are good, as is newer technology in the camper such as newer, more efficient fridges and so on. It's up to you what you want to do with them.

4. Alll parts are easily available from suppliers worldwide. The internet is your friend here.

5. Tax is €56 for a classic or €102 for a camper, you'll have to get your own quote for insurance but insuring it as just a camper is ca. €350-400, as a classic and a second car possibly cheaper.

6.Pro's - different, brings a smile to your face, if it's a good one and well looked after then it has less depreciation than a standard camper.
Cons - slow, thirsty, louder than newer ones, worse brakes etc etc, if you buy a heap of junk at the outset it's a money pit.


My advice: (i) There are a couple of companies renting them here, get one for a weekend or a week and see if you can live with them.
(ii) Unless you are very adept mechanically don't get a cheap one, you'll easily pay over €10,000 for a good one, go for the upper end of the market, get one that's in top condition and it'll save you money long term.

Kenny Logins

BTW, up to '67 are split screens. Personally I prefer the more recent ones (Westfalia), from '71 on you get servo-assisted disc brakes and later again, 2 litre motors.

Join a club - Type2Ireland, Eircooled or Southern Volks Folks, they'll know the ****ters.

Dizzicizzi

Red Kev wrote: »

Pro's - different, brings a smile to your face, if it's a good one and well looked after then it has less depreciation than a standard camper.
Cons - slow, thirsty, louder than newer ones, worse brakes etc etc, if you buy a heap of junk at the outset it's a money pit.

When you say thirsty, how thirsty are we talking? The slowness I can deal with as I am not a speed freak, I am more of a cruiser Those guys at cosyclassics.ie look pretty awesome. It might be worth my while holding out and saving up a bit to buy something like what they have, at least I would be sure everything was in order and I would have a 12 month guarantee.

Kenny Logins wrote: »

BTW, up to '67 are split screens. Personally I prefer the more recent ones (Westfalia), from '71 on you get servo-assisted disc brakes and later again, 2 litre motors.

Join a club - Type2Ireland, Eircooled or Southern Volks Folks, they'll know the ****ters.

Like I said complete novice here lol. I was under the impression that the 70's ones had the split screens. I need to get my education on... I did wonder why the split screens seemed to be more difficult to find! What are servo-assisted disc brakes? I have read things online about campers that have them vs campers that don't but I don't really understand the difference other than the servo-assisted disc brakes require less pressure on the brake pedal...

Had a quick peek at Eircooled and that looks like a good place for me to start, Thanks for the advice so far folks

Kenny Logins

Dizzicizzi wrote: »

When you say thirsty, how thirsty are we talking? The slowness I can deal with as I am not a speed freak, I am more of a cruiser Those guys at cosyclassics.ie look pretty awesome. It might be worth my while holding out and saving up a bit to buy something like what they have, at least I would be sure everything was in order and I would have a 12 month guarantee.



Like I said complete novice here lol. I was under the impression that the 70's ones had the split screens. I need to get my education on... I did wonder why the split screens seemed to be more difficult to find! What are servo-assisted disc brakes? I have read things online about campers that have them vs campers that don't but I don't really understand the difference

Had a quick peek at Eircooled and that looks like a good place for me to start, Thanks for the advice so far folks

25ish MPG.

There are some '75 ones with a split screen ('Fleetline' - built in Brazil and South Africa AFAIK), but they've often had a hard life and are said to be built to a lower standard from the start (no idea if that's actually true though..). Rare enough in Ireland.

A splitty can take some leg power to bring to a complete stop, but with the later bay servo-assisted brakes (closer to a modern car setup) it's a lot easier.

Splitties look great, I could spend all day looking at pics of them, but a bay is much easier to live with IMHO.

For a bay I think €10k is the starting point for a really good one, and €15k (minimum) for a splitty.

Dizzicizzi

Kenny Logins wrote: »

25ish MPG.

There are some '75 ones with a split screen ('Fleetline' - built in Brazil and South Africa AFAIK), but they've often had a hard life and are said to be built to a lower standard from the start (no idea if that's actually true though..). Rare enough in Ireland.

A splitty can take some leg power to bring to a complete stop, but with the later bay servo-assisted brakes (closer to a modern car setup) it's a lot easier.

Splitties look great, I could spend all day looking at pics of them, but a bay is much easier to live with IMHO.

For a bay I think €10k is the starting point for a really good one, and €15k (minimum) for a splitty.

Hmm will have to consider that. The split screens really are just so pretty. For me it is all about the aesthetics when considering which one, but 5k difference could see me swayed.

Kenny Logins

Eircooled meet on the first Wednesday of each month in Stillorgan, I'm sure one of them would be happy to show you around their bay or splitty.

Dizzicizzi

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Eircooled meet on the first Wednesday of each month in Stillorgan, I'm sure one of them would be happy to show you around their bay or splitty.

Would I have to be on the forums for a while before I would be allowed attend?

Tzar Chasm

Dizzicizzi wrote: »

Would I have to be on the forums for a while before I would be allowed attend?

I wouldn't think so, if you have a genuine interest in becoming a member of their club i'd say they'd welcome you with open arms.

Kenny Logins

Dizzicizzi wrote: »

Would I have to be on the forums for a while before I would be allowed attend?

Nope. All welcome.

They don't bite.

I am a club member BTW, but have never been to these Dublin meets as I'm living in Cork.

Dizzicizzi

Well that definitely sounds like a plan so! I will join the forums tomorrow and have a scout around. Thanks for the advice guys it is much appreciated!

boatbuilder

Just to put in my opinion here... the main thing to look for is rust; especially if there has been a recent respray. I got caught on that one when I bought my '68 bay camper a few years ago. If you get caught out on it, you've basically bought a total restoration project without knowing it!

Any money you put into the van in terms of repairs, improvements etc - don't expect to get your money back if you sell it in the short to medium term - in fact you can count on losing quite a lot!

The mpg is pretty terrible with any of the engines and with the current price of petrol, I don't think I would ever go back to owning a bay again. Hence why I have made the change to a 1.6 diesel powered T25. If you are planning to use the van on a daily basis, then I'd suggest you get a T25 unless you have the money to pay for the petrol etc! Yes it doesn't look as good as a bay or split, but I have been where you are now weighing up the pros and cons about looks and all..... what it came down to for me after a couple of years of owning the bay - was that it was just too expensive for me to keep it in good nick and pay the petrol bills etc - these things rust like crazy too and the metal is very thin compared to the later T25s which are much more substantially built.

boatbuilder

Some more forums for you to snoop around....

earlybay.com
thesamba.com
volkszone.com
justkampers.com

trevorbrady

I'm going to ad my 2 cents worth here: I own a '74 bay-window camper. It was imported from California in 2004 and as-such was as close to rust-free as you're going to get. The only rust I had to deal with was a coin-sized hole in the battery tray, caused by leaking acid rather than poxy weather. An easy fix. If I was looking for another van, I'd be looking for a good US imported van from the likes of Krazy Kombis in Kilkenny (Google them) or there's a chap on Eircooled who exports them from the US too (Roadcow is his username).

In terms of "campers" as opposed to "vans", there are a number of different conversions that were offered over the years. In my eyes, the best option is the only VW-sanctioned one: Westfalia. They were built in Germany from VW-supplied microbuses, i.e. they had windows fitted from the word go. Other conversions like "Devon" or "Viking" bought vans from dealers locally and used microbuses or panel vans or whatever they could get their hands on. As a result, some of the window installations look a bit iffy and the pop-tops were never as professional as the Westfalia ones. The Westfalia models are always better kitted-out internally IMO. Or maybe I'm biased because mine's a Westy

Do your research, ask the questions, hire one and see how you like it etc. It's a lot of cash to drop on something that might not suit you. The very best of luck, maybe we'll see you at the wheel of one soon

Dizzicizzi

boatbuilder wrote: »

If you are planning to use the van on a daily basis, then I'd suggest you get a T25 unless you have the money to pay for the petrol etc! Yes it doesn't look as good as a bay or split, but I have been where you are now weighing up the pros and cons about looks and all..... what it came down to for me after a couple of years of owning the bay - was that it was just too expensive for me to keep it in good nick and pay the petrol bills etc - these things rust like crazy too and the metal is very thin compared to the later T25s which are much more substantially built.

Very good information and definitely worth knowing, thank you for the advice! I just don't think it would bring the same smile to my face... I mean this is my dream car, the car I have wanted since I was a little girl... I don't think I would get the same satisfaction if I went for a T25, I guess no one wants to compromise on their dreams. I will definitely keep what you have said in mind, perhaps keeping my little run-around for daily driving might be an option, then I could have my VW camper for weekend fun and showing off! Definitely the MPG will have to be considered.

trevorbrady wrote: »

In terms of "campers" as opposed to "vans", there are a number of different conversions that were offered over the years. In my eyes, the best option is the only VW-sanctioned one: Westfalia. They were built in Germany from VW-supplied microbuses, i.e. they had windows fitted from the word go. Other conversions like "Devon" or "Viking" bought vans from dealers locally and used microbuses or panel vans or whatever they could get their hands on. As a result, some of the window installations look a bit iffy and the pop-tops were never as professional as the Westfalia ones. The Westfalia models are always better kitted-out internally IMO. Or maybe I'm biased because mine's a Westy

That is some really awesome advice, thank you very much. See it is things like this that I just would not know! Is the Westfalia visually different from the others or much the same? See I guess this is why I need to get to a meet and see a few for myself.

On a whole, you guys have been great! I was expecting (for some unknown reason) to be ribbed for my lack of knowledge or at least some mild snobbery of the "You are not part of this club so get out" variety! You guys are so good to give your time and help me get myself on the road (pun intended) to owning my very first classic dream

I will definitely be checking out those other forums, websites, companies, etc. I am also going to the Terenure classic car show in July and will for sure find out about attending the Eircooled one!

Kenny Logins

Have to agree with Trev, I went for a California Westy too.

Dizzicizzi

Please do tell more of these "Westy"s you speak of! Lol

deckie27

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Have to agree with Trev, I went for a California Westy too.

Me to.
.
.
Well Cork

I bought Kenny Logins...

Kenny Logins

Dizzicizzi wrote: »

Please do tell more of these "Westy"s you speak of! Lol

https://www.google.ie/search?q=bay+westfalia&safe=on&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=d6m3Uci0OM_y7AbUooDYDg&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1589&bih=927

iverjohnston

You could also have a look at www.westfalia.org
Some good stuff there. I am biased, as I bought a 1984 T25 Westy hightop. Bought off ebay.de, flew over and drove home, a great adventure! have a look there, and if you have a newish browser on your computer you can set it up to automatically translate. www.mobile.de is the German version of Autotrader. Also I keep an eye on www.club80-90.co.uk, and there is a good site www.earlybay.com if you are that way inclined!

Remember a genuine westfalia will always be left hand drive. If someone tried to sell you a right hand drive one, put your sceptical glasses on.

trevorbrady

iverjohnston wrote: »

Remember a genuine westfalia will always be left hand drive.

really? I've seen quite a few RHD bay window Westfalias, both in the flesh and online...

iverjohnston

I stand corrected, not so well up on the bay window models. The T25 certainly only came LHD. Westfalia did sell a DIY kit called the "Mosiac" to allow you convert your own van to a variety of specs. But these will not have the Westfalia serial number plate on the rear seat base, and the rear storage cupboard above the back seat shows a different profile where it meets the roof.


http://www.westfaliat3.info/html/westfalia_mosaik_self_install.

Good info here

Dizzicizzi

That brings me to another question... I have never ever driven LHD... Is is really different? Does it take a long time to get used to? I have seen a few nice campers in the past but decided not to go see them because the were LHD. I was so scared by the thought of trying to drive them lol!

trevorbrady

realistically, it takes about a week of driving to get used to. I still make the mistake the odd time of returning to the van and going to open the front right door to get in. You'll rarely be going fast enough to need to see past something you're going to overtake. Once you're used to it, it makes no difference...

...except at toll booths, the ticket machines at the entrances to car parks and McDonalds drive thru

Dizzicizzi

trevorbrady wrote: »

realistically, it takes about a week of driving to get used to. I still make the mistake the odd time of returning to the van and going to open the front right door to get in. You'll rarely be going fast enough to need to see past something you're going to overtake. Once you're used to it, it makes no difference...

...except at toll booths, the ticket machines at the entrances to car parks and McDonalds drive thru

I was reading that and nodding along to myself then got to the last paragraph and actually lol'd

Well played Sir, well played!

Kenny Logins

Dizzicizzi wrote: »

That brings me to another question... I have never ever driven LHD... Is is really different? Does it take a long time to get used to? I have seen a few nice campers in the past but decided not to go see them because the were LHD. I was so scared by the thought of trying to drive them lol!

Only issue I ever had with it was the wardrobe blocking my view over my right shoulder.

boatbuilder

Lhd isn't such an issue because you're sitting up high with good visibility anyway. Toll booths were the biggest irritation for me!

Tzar Chasm

boatbuilder wrote: »

Lhd isn't such an issue because you're sitting up high with good visibility anyway. Toll booths were the biggest irritation for me!

all the more reason to bring a friend on your camping trips

Seraphim1

I had a LHD VW 1972 westy, they're great fun to drive and the left side is grand once you get used to it. You never have to worry about speed limits, you always have a queue of people behind you if you ever break down or bits fall off! And speed cameras are never to be feared!
Efficiency of fuel is not such a big issue as you're never really going to do huge mileage (unless its you're daily driver) , the vw community in Ireland are a really friendly, helpful bunch and are always on hand for advice and parts and meets.
Maybe you could rent a van for a week in the summer from someone like Pat in Wicklow or if you're set on buying you couldn't get better than John ( Krazy Combis) in Kilkenny. I'm not connected with either guys but can highly recommend them as I'm sure any vw owner in Ireland would.
A cheap van will cost you more than a good van to start with. The vw is designed to be fairly user in friendly in terms of routine maintenance and for he larger jobs there's plenty of good vw air cooled mechanics / fixers on the above mentioned websites.
Best of luck with you're search, it's part of the fun of being hooked on vw!
Personally I think the split looks better but the bay is more practical.
S.1

Dizzicizzi

Seraphim1 wrote: »

I had a LHD VW 1972 westy, they're great fun to drive and the left side is grand once you get used to it. You never have to worry about speed limits, you always have a queue of people behind you if you ever break down or bits fall off! And speed cameras are never to be feared!
Efficiency of fuel is not such a big issue as you're never really going to do huge mileage (unless its you're daily driver) , the vw community in Ireland are a really friendly, helpful bunch and are always on hand for advice and parts and meets.
Maybe you could rent a van for a week in the summer from someone like Pat in Wicklow or if you're set on buying you couldn't get better than John ( Krazy Combis) in Kilkenny. I'm not connected with either guys but can highly recommend them as I'm sure any vw owner in Ireland would.
A cheap van will cost you more than a good van to start with. The vw is designed to be fairly user in friendly in terms of routine maintenance and for he larger jobs there's plenty of good vw air cooled mechanics / fixers on the above mentioned websites.
Best of luck with you're search, it's part of the fun of being hooked on vw!
Personally I think the split looks better but the bay is more practical.
S.1

I have heard a lot about Krazy Combis. It seems whenever I ask about VW campers, that name comes up. This is a good thing because I have yet to hear anyone say a bad word about them. I will definitely be checking them out.

I am being converted to the way of the bay lol. The split screen is very attractive but the bay seems more practical. I would be delighted if I could get a RHD but if I find a good camper with LHD I don't think I would rule it out as quickly now!

Good to know that the VW peeps in Ireland are a good bunch. I want to get as much info as possible before committing to buying my VW dream... Even though I just want my camper nooooowwwww! lol

You guys have all been so helpful

Kenny Logins

Oh, one more thing..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXRKo4MYmCU

http://www.eireball.com/