Filthy Apartment - deposit

shoes34

My mother owns an apartment in a University town and had it rented to 4 people, it is a two bedroomed apt - quite spacious and only 5 years old. The tenants moved out on the 30th of May and we went to clean it on Friday, I told her I would help, which was just as well, as it took us 5 hours to clean it, receipts on the floor from January, bins not empted out, there was a free stand freezer and there was beer all spilled in same, bluemoulded bread on the counter, surprised there wasn't vermin in the place.

The plan was to rent it out for the summer as she has done on previous years and the tenants that were there had asked could they move back in September, well 3 of the 4 of them as one is finished in college. After the state of the place I would be of the view to tell them that they can't move back in in September, no lease has been signed. The one tenant who wasn't coming back in September called to collect his deposit and Mum had decided to keep €100 from each of them as the place was a pigsty and she had to come up from the country to clean it. He threw a hissy fit and said that the other guys were the dirty ones and that he did clean and then he slammed the door and kicked it. Now my mother has never kept anyones deposit before but she just couldn't believe the state they left it in, I would say they never once cleaned a toilet or sweeped the floors, there was a grease on the kitchen floor which took a lot of boiling water to get off.

As she has never kept a deposit from someone before I just want to know if she did the correct thing, there was about 9 bags of rubbish to go to the skip and 5 hours of work in a two bed apartment.

endacl

Sounds fair, if its as you described. The tenant will get over it. Or not. His problem. He'll probably look after his next place though.

MariMel

I have no problem standing corrected on this but as far as I am aware, you need receipts for cleaning should you keep want to keep something from a deposit for this. And also you cannot charge (retain deposit) for work you undertake yourself.
Usual practice is to visit before the tenants leave and inspect property with them in order to remedy any issues that need sorting before they move out.
Should you have receipts for any rubbish that needed dumping, then I think, as far as I am aware, you can retain this amount from the deposit.
There are very specific reasons why a landlord can withhold a deposit.

If they paid their rent on time and your mother would have considered them good tenants other than finding out the place was a mess, then I would suggest a house inspection every six months just so that you and the tenants can keep on top of everything.

Agent Smith

€100 from Each?

Handy little side earner. you have receipts for the cleaning of the apartment? If not its the tennents word against yours....


no lease has been signed? Is your mother Registered as a landlord?

the_syco

Sounds like she is claiming for petrol and rent lost, but tbh, tough sh|t, as it sounds like she didn't give a hoot about the place up until now.

ladysarah

she is allowed charged 12.50 euro an hour for cleaning. 2 people for 5 hours is 125 plus 20 to 30 for cleaning agents. cost of disposingof rubbish is 7 to 10 euros per bag average it at 8 abd multiply by 9 bags is 72. roughly about 222 so lads should get bck 75 between them.

El_Dangeroso

And that's why tenants use their deposit as last month's rent folks. To circumvent amateur landlords who haven't a clue of the laws they are obligated to follow.

The_Conductor

ladysarah wrote: »

she is allowed charged 12.50 euro an hour for cleaning. 2 people for 5 hours is 125 plus 20 to 30 for cleaning agents. cost of disposingof rubbish is 7 to 10 euros per bag average it at 8 abd multiply by 9 bags is 72. roughly about 222 so lads should get bck 75 between them.

In normal situations- the cleaning agent charges a flatrate EUR50
Contract cleaners @ EUR 50 an hour for 5 hours
Miniskip for refuse removal EUR 100

+ VAT @ 13.5% ontop of all of the above

400+VAT, call it about EUR460

Thats- if they choose to go with good contract cleaners in future.

For now- providing there is photographic evidence- good luck to any of the tenants challenging the EUR100 deduction with the PRTB- though they are well within their rights to try.

djimi

Landlords are not legally allowed to deduct from the deposit for any work which they carry out themselves. Your mother, in this case, has no right to deduct from the tenants deposit. If she wanted to deduct for cleaning then she should have hired a cleaning company who would be able to provide a receipt/invoice for the deduction.

Edit:

From here:

If the landlord retains a deposit, the tenant must be provided with a written and itemised explanation of the reasons why. It is important to keep receipts for repairs to damages or items replaced. These will be required if the tenant complains to the PRTB.

Note: It is not possible to claim for your own time e.g. if you re-paint a room yourself. You cannot put a value on this time and deduct it from the tenants deposit.

http://www.irishlandlord.com/index.aspx?page=faq&answer=58

The_Conductor

Thats why contract cleaners are used most of the time.

L1011

ladysarah wrote: »

she is allowed charged 12.50 euro an hour for cleaning. 2 people for 5 hours is 125 plus 20 to 30 for cleaning agents. cost of disposingof rubbish is 7 to 10 euros per bag average it at 8 abd multiply by 9 bags is 72. roughly about 222 so lads should get bck 75 between them.

Where did you invent these figures from?

ladysarah

from experience - recently we had a property in similar state. met with tenants and they were happy to pay for cleaning - got quotes in front of tenants from 12.50 to 15 per hour - we went withb1250 per hout - cleaning agents cost 23. rubbish at dunp was 8 perbag .i took it and gave them receipt but didnot charge for mytime or fuel. I paidgor carpet cleaning, painting and professional cooker cleaning and gutters myselfas that is myresponsibility. tenants were happy with outcome. by law tenants only have to pay when it is beyound normal cleaning whivh in my case and the Op case itwas

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

from experience - recently we had a property in similar state. met with tenants and they were happy to pay for cleaning - got quotes in front of tenants from 12.50 to 15 per hour - we went withb1250 per hout - cleaning agents cost 23. rubbish at dunp was 8 perbag .i took it and gave them receipt but didnot charge for mytime or fuel. I paidgor carpet cleaning, painting and professional cooker cleaning and gutters myselfas that is myresponsibility. tenants were happy with outcome. by law tenants only have to pay when it is beyound normal cleaning whivh in my case and the Op case itwas

What do you mean you got quotes in front of the tenant; do you mean that you got external cleaners to come in and clean the apartment for you, or were you just trying to get an idea of how much per hour it costs to clean an apartment? You can deduct for external cleaning, but if you carry out the work yourself then you are not legally allowed to charge the tenants for your time. The only thing that you could have deducted for was the disposal of rubbish.

hfallada

€100 each seems steep. You should have just got a private company in and got a proper bill and taken pictures if there was issues with the landlord

ladysarah

my tenants were advised by threshold they were liabje on foot of photos they showed threshold. We rang cleaning people in front of tenants who gave quotes per hour over the phone - we slso gave them the option to clean it themselves or get their own cleaner in. you are incorrect about they not been liable for cleaning. threshold advised thrm to clean itor pay for it

ladysarah

my tenants were advised by threshold they were liabje on foot of photos they showed threshold. We rang cleaning people in front of tenants who gave quotes per hour over the phone - we slso gave them the option to clean it themselves or get their own cleaner in. you are incorrect about they not been liable for cleaning. threshold advised thrm to clean itor pay for it they paid the cleaners directly

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

my tenants were advised by threshold they were liabje on foot of photos they showed threshold. We rang cleaning people in front of tenants who gave quotes per hour over the phone - we slso gave them the option to clean it themselves or get their own cleaner in. you are incorrect about they not been liable for cleaning. threshold advised thrm to clean itor pay for it

They are liable for cleaning, but only if you hire external cleaners. Ive already posted a link above to say that you cannot deduct for any work which you carry out yourself; that includes cleaning.

ladysarah

i saud we used cleaners in my first post. i also stated i brought rubbish to dump but only chsrged for codt of dumping and not my time or fuel

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

i saud we used cleaners in my first post. i also stated i brought rubbish to dump but only chsrged for codt of dumping and not my time or fuel

Well then your situation is not the same as the OP, who carried out their own cleaning. Your initial post is very misleading.

ladysarah

i stated they had a choice of cleaners for 12.50 or 15 and they choose the 12.50 cleaners. I am fully aware anything you do yrself cannot be claimed for and was more then happy to bring the rubbishto the dump myself And ifi had the time i wouldhave no issue cleaning myself,

I said line the OP it was left beyound normal cleaning.

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

i stated they had a choice of cleaners for 12.50 or 15 and they choose the 12.50 cleaners. I am fully aware anything you do yrself cannot be claimed for and was more then happy to bring the rubbishto the dump myself And ifi had the time i wouldhave no issue cleaning myself,

I said line the OP it was left beyound normal cleaning.

The OP has already cleaned the property themselves. You are confusing matters by talking about hiring cleaners, and your first post stated as fact they could claim 12.50 an hour for cleaning, without specifying that this is for hiring external cleaners.

L1011

ladysarah wrote: »

from experience - recently we had a property in similar state. met with tenants and they were happy to pay for cleaning - got quotes in front of tenants from 12.50 to 15 per hour - we went withb1250 per hout - cleaning agents cost 23. rubbish at dunp was 8 perbag .i took it and gave them receipt but didnot charge for mytime or fuel. I paidgor carpet cleaning, painting and professional cooker cleaning and gutters myselfas that is myresponsibility. tenants were happy with outcome. by law tenants only have to pay when it is beyound normal cleaning whivh in my case and the Op case itwas

So you made them up and stated them as if they were legal limits, then.

Either that, or you got cleaners in that cost that much - its near impossible to tell from your contradictory posts. You can charge whatever the cleaners cost, not what you're stating as a limit.

engineermike

Technically shoes34 could be contracted to clean for her Mam & she's not the landlord nor obligated to clean up someone elses mess with out payment. So whatever the going rate is & cleaning materials + rubbish removal.
Its not going to leave much change out of 400 quid either way.
I suppose the moral in the story is leases are there to protect both parties. Grey area's leave a lot of room for ppl to 'prick' around.
mf

ted1

smccarrick wrote: »

In normal situations- the cleaning agent charges a flatrate EUR50
Contract cleaners @ EUR 50 an hour for 5 hours
Miniskip for refuse removal EUR 100

+ VAT @ 13.5% ontop of all of the above

400+VAT, call it about EUR460

Thats- if they choose to go with good contract cleaners in future.

For now- providing there is photographic evidence- good luck to any of the tenants challenging the EUR100 deduction with the PRTB- though they are well within their rights to try.

Those prices are a tad high. 50 euro am hour is taking the piss. 25 would be considered high. Mini skip for 100? Throw it in the bin or get a 1 ton slip bag for 70.

ted1

engineermike wrote: »

Technically shoes34 could be contracted to clean for her Mam & she's not the landlord nor obligated to clean up someone elses mess with out payment. So whatever the going rate is & cleaning materials + rubbish removal.
Its not going to leave much change out of 400 quid either way.
I suppose the moral in the story is leases are there to protect both parties. Grey area's leave a lot of room for ppl to 'prick' around.
mf

We technically shoes should have a registered company and declare the income at the end of the year

ladysarah

most cleaning companies are expensive. my tenants were present when we rang around and choose obviously to go with the cheapest but they had the option of getting their own cleaner in. they were delighted we were paying for carpet cleaning as we always clean carpets. my posts are factual and go by PRTB and threshold.

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

most cleaning companies are expensive. my tenants were present when we rang around and choose obviously to go with the cheapest but they had the option of getting their own cleaner in. they were delighted we were paying for carpet cleaning as we always clean carpets. my posts are factual and go by PRTB and threshold.

You posts are misleading and leave out key information which make it sound like you are suggesting that the OP could charge an amount for cleaning which they carried out themselves.

djimi

engineermike wrote: »

Technically shoes34 could be contracted to clean for her Mam & she's not the landlord nor obligated to clean up someone elses mess with out payment. So whatever the going rate is & cleaning materials + rubbish removal.
Its not going to leave much change out of 400 quid either way.
I suppose the moral in the story is leases are there to protect both parties. Grey area's leave a lot of room for ppl to 'prick' around.
mf

For the purpose of determining whether a renter is a tenant or a licensee the immediate family of the landlord is considered to be the same as a landlord (ie the renter is considered to be a licensee rather than a tenant if they are living with the landlord or a member of their immediate family). Im not sure if it is the same in this case but Id be surprised if it isnt. In either case, the landlord also carried out the cleaning work, so I suspect that would sufficiently muddy the water were it to go to a PRTB hearing as to make it impossible to determine what costs could be deducted.

narddog

Sounds like you had a couple of filthy ****ing knackers in there.

discodavie

ladysarah wrote: »

she is allowed charged 12.50 euro an hour for cleaning. 2 people for 5 hours is 125 plus 20 to 30 for cleaning agents. cost of disposingof rubbish is 7 to 10 euros per bag average it at 8 abd multiply by 9 bags is 72. roughly about 222 so lads should get bck 75 between them.

This whole thing is rubbish

ladysarah wrote: »

my tenants were advised by threshold they were liabje on foot of photos they showed threshold. We rang cleaning people in front of tenants who gave quotes per hour over the phone - we slso gave them the option to clean it themselves or get their own cleaner in. you are incorrect about they not been liable for cleaning. threshold advised thrm to clean itor pay for it

The tenant is liable for all damage above normal wear and tear
and from section 16 of the act

"(g) if paragraph (f) is not complied with, take such steps as the landlord may reasonably require to be taken for the pur¬pose of restoring the dwelling to the condition mentioned in paragraph (f) or to defray any costs incurred by the landlord in his or her taking such steps as are reasonable for that purpose,"

So the tenant is liable for the costs

OP you cannot charge what you do not have a receipt for and ladysarah please dont give out opinion as fact

3DataModem

Just give your mam an invoice for 400 for your work, expenses, etc and declare it in your income tax some time before next October.

shoes34

3DataModem wrote: »

Just give your mam an invoice for 400 for your work, expenses, etc and declare it in your income tax some time before next October.

I think I might just do this as I did the majority of the work. I expect normal wear and tear but not to the extent they left this apartment in. also a light fitting on the hall ceiling had been broken where a Electrician will have to come out and repair same and one of the tenants has said that he did this. Also the microwave which was purchased for them new at the start of the year was beyond cleaning and has to be thrown out together with the toaster and kettle was broken.

Going to contact our Solicitor for advice and then may contact the PRTB as the landlord is a registered landlord.

djimi

shoes34 wrote: »

I think I might just do this as I did the majority of the work. I expect normal wear and tear but not to the extent they left this apartment in. also a light fitting on the hall ceiling had been broken where a Electrician will have to come out and repair same and one of the tenants has said that he did this. Also the microwave which was purchased for them new at the start of the year was beyond cleaning and has to be thrown out together with the toaster and kettle was broken.

Going to contact our Solicitor for advice and then may contact the PRTB as the landlord is a registered landlord.

I'd be very much surprised if you will be able to invoice your mother for your time and have that as an acceptable deduction from the tenants deposit, but it is worth consulting with your solicitor and the PRTB and see what they have to say. Please keep us updated as I would be interested to hear their response.

Pawwed Rig

djimi wrote: »

Please keep us updated as I would be interested to hear their response.

Interesting idea and I don't see any reason why theoretically you couldn't do this.
VAT would be an issue but you would not need to register as you wouldn't be earning enough in the year.
The only issue I can think of would that could be easily challenged by the tenant would be the excessive amount that was charged for the cleaning. As another poster pointed out €12.50 an hour would seem like a reasonable amount to charge whereas the OP charged €80 which is extortion by any standards. The tenant should have been given the option to clean it themselves or hire a cleaner. If they refused then the landlord could do it.

djimi

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Interesting idea and I don't see any reason why theoretically you couldn't do this.
VAT would be an issue but you would not need to register as you wouldn't be earning enough in the year.
The only issue I can think of would that could be easily challenged by the tenant would be the excessive amount that was charged for the cleaning. As another poster pointed out €12.50 an hour would seem like a reasonable amount to charge whereas the OP charged €80 which is extortion by any standards. The tenant should have been given the option to clean it themselves or hire a cleaner. If they refused then the landlord could do it.

Two problems I can see straight off is that it would be massivley open to abuse if the landlord could get an invoice from a family member for cleaning, and also its a pretty blatent attempt to circumvent tenancy law, which I have no doubt the PRTB would take a dim view of.

If the OP had an established cleaning company then it might be a different story, but as it stands I really dont see the PRTB giving this the time of day. I could, of course, be wrong about that though, and I am interested to see how it goes.

foggy_lad

shoes34 wrote: »

I think I might just do this as I did the majority of the work. I expect normal wear and tear but not to the extent they left this apartment in. also a light fitting on the hall ceiling had been broken where a Electrician will have to come out and repair same and one of the tenants has said that he did this. Also the microwave which was purchased for them new at the start of the year was beyond cleaning and has to be thrown out together with the toaster and kettle was broken.

Going to contact our Solicitor for advice and then may contact the PRTB as the landlord is a registered landlord.

What you are describing here is items damaged under normal wear and tear, Electrical fittings as well as things like door handles and paintwork do get damaged from time to time, you are lucky they didn't break any windows or knock holes in some walls.

In a rented property with several tenants the kettle and toaster are lucky to have lasted as long and the microwave was a bit grubby but most likely still working well for them.

Pawwed Rig

djimi - Yes I agree with you 100% in that it would be open to abuse. That is why I would imagine the agreement of the tenant should be obtained prior to incurring the charges and it should also be charged at a market rate rather than the extortionate rate the OP charged.
Also consider the fact that the daughter would have to pay tax on it so the actual amount she would get to keep would be around €6 per hour (if on the higher rate of tax) never mind the hassle of filling out a Form 11 or 12.

I would think the PRTB would scrutinise a related party arrangement more but only if it was brought to their attention otherwise I don't think they really check.

djimi

foggy_lad wrote: »

What you are describing here is items damaged under normal wear and tear, Electrical fittings as well as things like door handles and paintwork do get damaged from time to time, you are lucky they didn't break any windows or knock holes in some walls.

In a rented property with several tenants the kettle and toaster are lucky to have lasted as long and the microwave was a bit grubby but most likely still working well for them.

None of that is normal wear and tear. A tenant would have a hell of a time proving that a light fitting broke through normal wear and tear. Electrical appliances should be expected to last more than a year, and certainly in the case of the microwave that has been damaged through the neglect of not cleaning it.

djimi

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

djimi - Yes I agree with you 100% in that it would be open to abuse. That is why I would imagine the agreement of the tenant should be obtained prior to incurring the charges and it should also be charged at a market rate rather than the extortionate rate the OP charged.
Also consider the fact that the daughter would have to pay tax on it so the actual amount she would get to keep would be around €6 per hour (if on the higher rate of tax) never mind the hassle of filling out a Form 11 or 12.

I would think the PRTB would scrutinise a related party arrangement more but only if it was brought to their attention otherwise I don't think they really check.

The easiest thing would be for the landlord to remove all possible confusion and just hire a cleaning contractor to do the job and issue an invoice accordingly. That way everyone is perfectly clear where they stand and no one can have any cause for complaint.

foggy_lad

djimi wrote: »

None of that is normal wear and tear. A tenant would have a hell of a time proving that a light fitting broke through normal wear and tear. Electrical appliances should be expected to last more than a year, and certainly in the case of the microwave that has been damaged through the neglect of not cleaning it.

Accidents do happen and things get broken all the time. A landlord might not like it but a certain amount of breakage is covered under normal wear and tear and a house with 4 youths living unsupervised will have a lot more normal wear and tear than a house with a granny and her little old dog or cat.

mitosis

Agent Smith wrote: »

€100 from Each?

Handy little side earner. you have receipts for the cleaning of the apartment? If not its the tennents word against yours....


no lease has been signed? Is your mother Registered as a landlord?

Two people cleaning for five hours. That's 10 manhours of cleaning. €400 doesn't sound exorbitant.

djimi

mitosis wrote: »

Two people cleaning for five hours. That's 10 manhours of cleaning. €400 doesn't sound exorbitant.

Some people have mentioned rates of €12.50 an hour for cleaning so even if it was as high was €20 a hour then youre only talking €200 for that job if 2 people spend 5 hours each on it. The place would have to have been turned over completely from top to bottom to justify €400 worth of cleaning.

Just a few examples:

http://www.domesticbliss.ie/ €15 an hour
http://maid4u.ie/rates/ €16.25 an hour
http://www.cleanmyhome.ie/ €15 an hour

Just the first three that I came across that have rates online.

djimi

foggy_lad wrote: »

Accidents do happen and things get broken all the time. A landlord might not like it but a certain amount of breakage is covered under normal wear and tear and a house with 4 youths living unsupervised will have a lot more normal wear and tear than a house with a granny and her little old dog or cat.

Accidents do happen and things get broken, but that doesnt mean that the tenant isnt liable to pay for the damage. I dont really know how damage to a light fitting could ever fall under wear and tear; how would something that should almost never be touched get damaged in the course of normal use?

syklops

djimi wrote: »

dont really know how damage to a light fitting could ever fall under wear and tear; how would something that should almost never be touched get damaged in the course of normal use?

Changing the bulb?

djimi

syklops wrote: »

Changing the bulb?

Can happen, Im not saying it doesnt, but if I break a fitting while changing a lightbulb then I fully expect to pay for it. If the fitting is worn or damaged then it is up to the tenant to cover their ass and bring it to the attention of the landlord before they risk doing any further damage to it.

MariMel

I would really like to know why the LL did not do an inspection while the tenants were still there or on the day they were leaving and handing keys back?

Surely this would have given the option for both the tenants and LL to rememdy the situation before now.

3DataModem

djimi wrote: »

Two problems I can see straight off is that it would be massivley open to abuse if the landlord could get an invoice from a family member for cleaning, and also its a pretty blatent attempt to circumvent tenancy law, which I have no doubt the PRTB would take a dim view of.

If the OP had an established cleaning company then it might be a different story, but as it stands I really dont see the PRTB giving this the time of day. I could, of course, be wrong about that though, and I am interested to see how it goes.

Threshold have already confirmed the tenants were liable [EDIT: Not true, my mistake]. PRTB will probably assume the place was in rag order, and probably not be too sympathetic with the tenant. That's the core issue here; is 100 per head reasonable for the damage.

A legit invoice with PRSI disclosed etc on it won't cause a problem for the PRTB. It's an "actual" cost paid, with tax paid on it.

If PRTB start adjudicating as to what's a fair price for cleaning, that opens a whole can of worms around cost of agents, etc.

And best of all the 400 is tax deductible for your mum.

D3PO

3DataModem wrote: »

Threshold have already confirmed the tenants were liable. PRTB will probably assume the place was in rag order, and probably not be too sympathetic with the tenant. That's the core issue here; is 100 per head reasonable for the damage.

A legit invoice with PRSI disclosed etc on it won't cause a problem for the PRTB. It's an "actual" cost paid, with tax paid on it.

If PRTB start adjudicating as to what's a fair price for cleaning, that opens a whole can of worms around cost of agents, etc.

And best of all the 400 is tax deductible for your mum.

No the PRTB will assume that a professional Landlord will have dated photographs showing the filth and also expect the professional landlord to have itemised legitimate receipts form a cleaning company showing the cost of the cleaning.

If the landlord doesn't have both they will most likely lose any adjucation. Whilst everybody is in agreement that a deduction is warranted for the cleaning the facts are they landlord screwed up by cleaning themselves and given they screwed up this way I suspect they have also screwred up by not taking photographs of the filth.

in that case you can be as sure as night follows day that if the tenants took a case to the PRTB they would win.

As it stands in my interpretation of tenancy law due to the landlord doing the work themselves anything above the cost of the cleaning materials and waste disposal costs (which would need to be receipted) is unwarranted.

Pawwed Rig

3DataModem wrote: »

And best of all the 400 is tax deductible for your mum.

I would need to look it up and am open to correction here but afaik it would be tax neutral as the withheld deposit would be considered extra income with the cost of cleaning (if invoiced) offset against this same figure. But with no invoice it is taxable but not deductible

3DataModem

D3PO wrote: »

No the PRTB will assume that a professional Landlord will have dated photographs showing the filth and also expect the professional landlord to have itemised legitimate receipts form a cleaning company showing the cost of the cleaning.

If the landlord doesn't have both they will most likely lose any adjucation. Whilst everybody is in agreement that a deduction is warranted for the cleaning the facts are they landlord screwed up by cleaning themselves and given they screwed up this way I suspect they have also screwred up by not taking photographs of the filth.

in that case you can be as sure as night follows day that if the tenants took a case to the PRTB they would win.

My mistake - I read above another poster talking about showing Threshold the photos and mistook this for the OP.

Yes I agree, a pro landlord should take pics of the filth if they hope to keep any deposit. That OR a receipt from a non-related cleaning firm.

Without the photos the family invoice is more likely to be challenged. With photos, not so much.

djimi

3DataModem wrote: »

PRTB will probably assume the place was in rag order, and probably not be too sympathetic with the tenant.

I would that any body who is carrying out a legal process would not be so flippant about the law and would not skip over tenancy law just because they dont like the look of the accused.

The law regarding this is very clear; the landlord cannot put a price on their own time, and they cannot deduct from the deposit for work which they have carried out themselves. A homemade invoice from the landlords daughter, even if it is complete with PRSI cert, looks to all the world like a blatent attempt to circumvent this law. Maybe youre right, maybe the PRTB would accept it as a legitimate deduction, but I would not be at all surprised if they saw it for what it was and awarded in favour of the tenant.

Also there is no way that a €400 cleaning bill would hold up unless there was an absolute mountain of evidence to back it up. At the rates which I have posted above €400 equates to about 26 hours of cleaning time; the tenants would have to have near destroyed the property completely to warrant that sort of cleaning. If the OP can back up that sort of claim then more power to them, but I suspect that if there genuinely was €400 worth of cleaning required it is not a job that they would have tackled themselves, and it is not a job that would have been completed in 5 hours by two people (as outlined in the first post).