Gardaí - What would you do if spoken to in Irish?

An Coilean

I am interested to know how members of the Gardaí would react if a member of the public insisted on using Irish.

There was a case a while back of a Garda arresting someone for doing this and I am curious to know how other members of the Gardaí would react in a similar circumstance.

An Coilean

An Coilean wrote: »

I am interested to know how members of the Gardaí would react if a member of the public insisted on using Irish.

There was a case a while back of a Garda arresting someone for doing this and I am curious to know how other members of the Gardaí would react in a similar circumstance.

Apologise for my lack of Irish and try get a member who does. Something that I'm not proud of and want to rectify.

hfallada

I imagine they would get an irish speaker on the phone for you. Someone on boards once said that even Dublin bus inspectors had a number for an Chinese translator so they could find a Chinese person who spoke "no English"

Zambia

I imagine the same thing as when a non engilsh speaking polish person needs to speak to them.

An Coilean

Zambia wrote: »

I imagine the same thing as when a non engilsh speaking polish person needs to speak to them.

Do you think Irish should be treated the same as a foreign language in cases like this?

source

Answer if able, if not, get an interpreter.

There is a right to have your business conducted through Irish if you wish. Though that doesn't mean a Garda who is not fluent has to try speak Irish. As Zambia said, it's dealt with the same way as someone who only speaks polish, French, Spanish etc

An Coilean

source wrote: »

if not, get an interpreter.

Well this is the important bit I suppose, the question is, if the Garda at the scene does not have Irish, is it appropriat for them to detain the member of the public untill someone with sufficient Irish can be found?

I am not saying that people should just be let off if the Garda does not have Irish but at the same time is it acceptable that to use Irish with the Gardaí you potentially will be detained for quite some time while an interperter is found, in the case I mentioned above the person was arested and brought to the Garda station for several hours while an Irish speaking Garda was sourced. That would put a person choosing to use Irish at a significant disadvantage to a person choosing English and would act as a disencentive for people to use Irish when dealing with the Gardaí.

goldie fish

An Coilean wrote: »

Do you think Irish should be treated the same as a foreign language in cases like this?

The constitution assures it.

An Coilean

goldie fish wrote: »

The constitution assures it.

Assures what? That it should be treated like a foreign language in such cases or that it should not?

Zambia

An Coilean wrote: »

Do you think Irish should be treated the same as a foreign language in cases like this?

100% , I would imagine there are very few people left in Ireland who speak only irish.

If someone is refusing to speak to English well they are basically trying to be a smart ass.

Its not that smart, so they are just being an ass.

goldie fish

An Coilean wrote: »

Assures what? That it should be treated like a foreign language in such cases or that it should not?

The irish language has equal place to English in all matters. All government documents, business and communications may be carried out in both languages, and all printed matter must be available in both.


Article 8
1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
2. The English language is recognised as a second official language.
3. Provision may, however, be made by law for the exclusive use of either of the said languages for any one or more official purposes, either throughout the State or in any part thereof.

An Coilean

goldie fish wrote: »

The irish language has equal place to English in all matters. All government documents, business and communications may be carried out in both languages, and all printed matter must be available in both.

Well not really, in theory Irish actually has a superior position to English rather than equal but in practice Irish very rarely even has an equal position to English and it is not true that all printed material must be available in both languages, the Official Languages Act sets out a fairly limited list of material that must be provided in Irish.

An Coilean

Zambia wrote: »

100% , I would imagine there are very few people left in Ireland who speak only irish.

If someone is refusing to speak to English well they are basically trying to be a smart ass.

Its not that smart, so they are just being an ass.

Its true that most Irish speakers also speak English, but why does that mean that they should have to speak English when dealing with the state? Irish is the first language of the state after all, does it not follow that people should be facilitated by the state in using it if they want to?

I don't get how an Irish person choosing to speak Irish in Ireland is being an ass.

Zambia

An Coilean wrote: »

Its true that most Irish speakers also speak English, but why does that mean that they should have to speak English when dealing with the state? Irish is the first language of the state after all, does it not follow that people should be facilitated by the state in using it if they want to?

I don't get how an Irish person choosing to speak Irish in Ireland is being an ass.

Does this include when they ring 999 in an emergency?

discus

An Coilean wrote: »

Its true that most Irish speakers also speak English, but why does that mean that they should have to speak English when dealing with the state? Irish is the first language of the state after all, does it not follow that people should be facilitated by the state in using it if they want to?

I don't get how an Irish person choosing to speak Irish in Ireland is being an ass.

For the sake of expediency, they could choose to speak english.

Pappa Charlie

An Coilean wrote: »

I am interested to know how members of the Gardaí would react if a member of the public insisted on using Irish.

There was a case a while back of a Garda arresting someone for doing this and I am curious to know how other members of the Gardaí would react in a similar circumstance.

I'd deal with them through Irish because I can but I would give them particular scrunity because in my opinion the are probally trying to frustrate a prosecution, the only people I met who did this were drunk drivers and once they realised I had the ability to deal with them they reverted to English. IMO it's an abuse of the language by some who claim to hold it dearly!

smcgiff

An Coilean wrote: »

Do you think Irish should be treated the same as a foreign language in cases like this?

Yes, levels of competent Irish among the populace are too small to restrict garda recruitment among competent Irish speakers.

That someone is detained longer because they insist on conversing in Irish is of no concern to me. I've yet to hear of anyone in Ireland that is not a competent speaker of English.

carzony

In other words if a Gardaí does know another language it's dead handy but really there's no need to know a second language considering an interpreter should be available?

goldie fish

An Coilean wrote: »

I am interested to know how members of the Gardaí would react if a member of the public insisted on using Irish.

There was a case a while back of a Garda arresting someone for doing this and I am curious to know how other members of the Gardaí would react in a similar circumstance.

Have you details of the case you speak of? A link for example? Because it sounds like the exact opposite of what I was taught in Templemore.

markpb

goldie fish wrote: »

Have you details of the case you speak of? A link for example? Because it sounds like the exact opposite of what I was taught in Templemore.

In one instance an Irish speaker who had been stopped for a minor road traffic matter in Dublin was arrested and detained until a garda was found to deal with him through Irish.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0312/376254-garda-irish-language/

yellowlabrador

I think this whole question points to the failure of the Irish education system. I thought it was a requirement for a gard to have leaving cert honours Irish. So after 13 years of study a gard can't understand an Irish speaker? I once tried to study Irish, which would be my 6th language and I thought of trying to chat with some leaving cert students. It was a failure. If they haven't learnt it by heart, they don't know it. They weren't even willing to try for fear of mistakes. I you are frightened of making mistakes you won't learn.

An Coilean

goldie fish wrote: »

Have you details of the case you speak of? A link for example? Because it sounds like the exact opposite of what I was taught in Templemore.

During the investigation, replies were received in writing from the Garda Síochána authorities and those involved in the incident were interviewed separately. The investigation found it surprising that neither of the two members of An Garda Síochána who stopped the driver at the roadside had sufficient Irish to ask “Cad is ainm duit?” or to request the driver’s address in Irish; nor was there any effective system in place to support them in dealing with the case without resorting to arresting the driver and escorting him in handcuffs to the Garda station. If they had established the driver’s identity through Irish, he would not have been arrested under section 107 of the Road Traffic Act 1961. The Gardaí in question were members of the force who had received their education through the Irish education system and had completed their training as members of An Garda Síochána in Templemore some short years previously. It emerged during the investigation that the Gardaí involved appeared to suggest that those who wished to conduct their business through Irish should be treated in the same way as “foreign nationals”; that concept came into use regularly in the discourse surrounding this matter.

Page 39 of this report has all the relevant details of the case in question.
http://www.coimisineir.ie/downloads/Annual_Report_2012.pdf

An Coilean

Zambia wrote: »

Does this include when they ring 999 in an emergency?

Of course it should. That an Irish speaker will use English in an emergency if obliged to do so because there is no other choice is not a rational argument against providing a choice.

goldie fish

An Coilean wrote: »

Page 39 of this report has all the relevant details of the case in question.
http://www.coimisineir.ie/downloads/Annual_Report_2012.pdf

Genuinely, I am shocked at that. There is no excuse for it, given the training being provided used to see a new garda leaving Templemore with enough irish to prosecute a drink driving case from beginning to end. Roadside to courtroom.

Standards must have slipped.

kub

I do feel Gardai should be competent in Irish, but i also do not see the point in someone who's normal language is English choosing only to converse with a Garda in Irish.

I have a feeling that they would not do the same while been served in their local shop.

notharrypotter

FF senator requesting probe to be carried out as gailge.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ff-senator-demands-probe-into-expenses-is-conducted-in-irish-29329236.html

Many people have an cupla focal when it suits.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

I think most people would agree that somebody who insists on dealing with a garda exclusively in irish is being a c*nt, and if the garda's grasp of irish isn't up to the same standard, then why is there a problem with forcing them to wait for a translator?

carzony

goldie fish wrote: »

Genuinely, I am shocked at that. There is no excuse for it, given the training being provided used to see a new garda leaving Templemore with enough irish to prosecute a drink driving case from beginning to end. Roadside to courtroom.

Standards must have slipped.

In all fairness you wouldn't be using the language all that much and i'd imagine after even a year or two you'd nearly forget most of what you've learned.

goldie fish

kub wrote: »

I do feel Gardai should be competent in Irish, but i also do not see the point in someone who's normal language is English choosing only to converse with a Garda in Irish.

I have a feeling that they would not do the same while been served in their local shop.

Not if their local shop is in Fionn Trá, An Rinn or Cúl Aodha.

smcgiff

goldie fish wrote: »

Not if their local shop is in Fionn Trá, An Rinn or Cúl Aodha.

I imagine there are enough garda proficient in Irish for deployment in Irish speaking areas. I imagine it would suit certain garda as I can't imagine there being a lot of serious crime in such areas. Although it would probably inhibit prokotion prospects.

However, I see little need for many Irish speakers based at store street station.

goldie fish

smcgiff wrote: »

I imagine there are enough garda proficient in Irish for deployment in Irish speaking areas. I imagine it would suit certain garda as I can't imagine there being a lot of serious crime in such areas. Although it would probably inhibit prokotion prospects.

However, I see little need for many Irish speakers based at store street station.

Well that would be a huge mistake.

In the past, as was their right, PIRA suspects, when being questioned at checkpoints would only answer their questioner in Irish.