How to deal with unwanted flirting

Bigdeadlydave

Not a problem I ever thought I'd have :pac:

But anyway, basically what's happening is that there is this woman in work who is a few years older than me, and she keeps flirting with me, making comments, (obvious) lingering touches etc. This was kinda flattering at first but at this stage it is just embarrassing and uncomfortable. Everyone else thinks it's funny (the women) or that I should be happy (mainly the lads saying this, she is a very attractive woman).

How should I deal with this with the minimum mess possible? I took her aside a few weeks ago the Monday morning after a work night out, during which she basically kept throwing herself at me, and told her in a nice way that I wasn't interested cause it would be highly unprofessional and things could get messy with work if things went wrong (she is great friends with the boss, like best friends), plus I didn't like her that way anyway etc. She just kinda laughed and said I shouldn't be so serious and/or shy and should live a little, and things stayed the same, if not a little worse afterwards!

I think I was too nice about it! But given that its a small place were we work and everyone is friends I couldn't be a dick and tell her the real reason (While she is attractive physically and a nice enough person I'm just not interested - she is about 30 and a single mother and harsh as it sounds I don't want to be getting involved in a situation like that at 21!)

Said this to some friends and their advice is basically to man up and sleep with her, so I've come to ask strangers on the internet for advise!
(feel weird about the whole thing cause I used to daydream about this kind of situation!)

miamee

If you have told her that her advances are unwelcome and she is now making your work life difficult, you should probably have a word with her manager.

It is highly inappropriate for her to act this way and if it was a 30 year old man constantly touching and throwing himself at a 21 year old woman, he'd be labelled the office sleaze.

Do not sleep with her to solve the problem, it will only get worse when you reject her again, this time after having sex. She may take that to mean a certain level of interest in her regardless of what you say.

(Sorry I'm not a dude but I hope that helps a bit)

cantdecide

The upshot is that you don't have to accept it but inevitably, you're not going to want to press the nuclear button too soon. If you're feeling that this is way beyond a nuisance, it might be time to call in the cavalry. IT IS YOUR PERCEPTION THAT MATTERS.

If you want to keep it away from the manager's office I'd just advise you to be completely flat with her at all time. If she touches you, squirm very slightly. If she's touching you in such a way as you feel cornered, stand up or move away. If she's hitting you with inappropriate banter, just don't engage or even acknowledge it. If you wander into the canteen and she's there on her own, leave. Keep your sentences short and to the point. If she makes any kind of physical grab for you, <if you don't feel it's gone far enough to speak to management> just stand up and walk away.

Stormington

Suggest she do anal for you.

The ladies will pierce themselves, tattoo themselves, remove hair with tweezers, hot wax their lady parts, get plastic surgery and inject silicone into their boobs but when it comes to taking a willy in the bum it suddenly hurts too much!

sam34

moved to PI. please note their charter applies from now on and all posts should be in line with their charter.

flyingsnail

I would try a second time to make it very clear to her that you do not appreciate her advances or behavior.

I think sleeping with her is probably the worst thing you could do. Firstly it would give some form of validation to her advances, leading her to believe they are welcome. Secondly if the problems persist after you have had sex with her and you complain it could give her a defense that you enjoy it, or that it was mutual.

I would also start keeping a note book with dates and times of any inappropriate behaviour. It may sound petty but being able to point out specific incidents may be very beneficial to you if you have to go to your manager or above. If you feel harassed, embarrassed, pressured or that it is affecting you in any way then it may well be time over her head to management.

Bigdeadlydave

sam34 wrote: »

moved to PI. please note their charter applies from now on and all posts should be in line with their charter.

I posted it in the Gentlemans club for a reason you know - I was hoping to hear about how other men dealt with this type of situation cause I reckon its something which can happen to a lot of men and I'd like to have the input of other guys

Could you move it back please? I don't really like PI or the atmosphere there

0ph0rce0

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

I posted it in the Gentlemans club for a reason you know - I was hoping to hear about how other men dealt with this type of situation cause I reckon its something which can happen to a lot of men and I'd like to have the input of other guys

Could you move it back please? I don't really like PI or the atmosphere there

My opinion stays the same as above, it doesnt happen all that often for guys so when it does .

<SNIP> FFS

tinkerbell

OP, you don't need to say anything to her. Just keep it professional and do not engage with her unless it is work-related. Just start keeping your distance from her and don't communicate with her if she starts flirting. If she comes over and asks you a work related question, answer it. If then she starts flirting with you, just say "is that everything? I'm pretty busy so need to get back to my work". If she starts putting her hand on your shoulder or whatever, move away from her so that you're no longer in touching distance. Failing that say "sorry but I'm not comfortable with people being in my personal space".

If none of this works, go to HR. but you keeping your distance and not acting interested around her should give her the message to give up.

sam34

moved back by PI mods. op, I can't move a thread from PI cos I'm not a mod there. this thread really is more suited there but it's moved back at your request.

Smidge

Have you any close female friends op, where there is no attraction etc?

If so, invent a girlfriend.
And let your mate meet you a couple of times after work etc
Act smitten about her in front of other work mates
Give it a shot, it may very well work

Rhys Essien

OP,the next time she approaches you tell her that you will have to set her up with your Uncle.Say to her "he is about the same age as you".That will make her feel really old and she might see the light then and back off.

The Corinthian

Invent a girlfriend (better still get one). Then talk about this 'girlfriend' incessantly whenever she attempts to flirt with you. Nothing kills a flirtation faster than talking positively about the relationship you're already in.

awec

This post has been deleted.

This kind of thing bothers me. If the roles were reversed and you were doing it to a younger woman, there would likely be uproar.

If she keeps doing it, tell her again. If she keeps doing it, report it to your manager as it basically is sexual harassment. Regardless of whether she's attractive or not, it is unwanted and unfair if she keeps it up.

Definitely don't sleep with her just because. Stand up for yourself.

Esoteric_

Make sure not to reciprocate.

When she flirts with you, blatantly ignore her, refuse to answer her, walk away if possible.

If she touches you, tell her not to touch you (politely!) and move away.

Get a notebook and pen. Keep them on you at all times. Write down EVERY time she makes an inappropriate remark or touches you in an unprofessional manner (not a hand on the shoulder as she's asking you to move out of her way, that's normal enough, anything more than that). Note the time and date as accurately as you can.

Tell her, ONCE, that you do not appreciate her comments and want them to stop.

If she doesn't stop, continue logging the inappropriate comments/actions, and once you have a few weeks or a month of stuff logged, go to your manager and make an official, WRITTEN complaint. Tell them that you want this investigated as you are not comfortable in work due to what you see as sexual harassment. Don't out-right accuse her of it, but say that it is how it feels to you.


I'm saying all of the above as a woman who was sexually harassed in the workplace, at a similar age to you, by a man who was older than me. I did all of the above, and still ended up being sexually assaulted in the work place because the management team refused to do anything about it (the place didn't exactly have ethical practises :rolleyes: ).

So, do what I've written above (this is not legal advice, but my solicitor told me to do all of the things I've detailed, to keep a record of what's going on, as the burden of proof is on you). If management don't take it seriously when you present the evidence (logs of actions/comments is taken as evidence in cases such as this), go above them to HR.

Just because it's a woman harassing a man, that doesn't make it any less disgusting and unacceptable. SOME people don't see it as seriously as male to female harassment, but it is just as serious.

Even if you don't want to do things in such an 'official' manner, you may have to. The reason you may have to is because, what happens if you start ignoring her, not speaking to her, being borderline rude? She'll have you up for workplace bullying and could very easily play the victim, resulting in YOU being disciplined.

Tread very carefully, and I'd strongly advise you to follow the steps I outlined above, to protect yourself from her harassment and also to protect your own reputation.

Daveysil15

This happened to me a few years ago in work. A girl kept flirting with me and actually grabbed my crotch a few times. I would have reported it if I hadn't enjoyed it so much.

Panthro

billy2012,
Your post has been deleted because a Mod warning regarding such postings has already been posted in this thread
Cut out that shyte or don't bother posting in here again.:

awec wrote: »

Mod - I have deleted a post from this thread. Seeing as it was posted while this thread was back in PI I'm not going to take any further action, but there is to be no more unhelpful, childish comments in this thread please.

FouxDaFaFa

Some good advice so far, OP.

While it's nice to be friendly with people you work with, you're not obligated to humour her when she's being inappropriate.

Like people have said, try to shut down any conversation that isn't related to work. Shrug her hands away if she touches you.

You shouldn't have to put up with being uncomfortable at work. It's creepy that she thinks she can get away with this because you're young, even after you were mature enough to talk to her about it.

How big is your workplace? Is there a HR department that you could go to if this continues?

ladysarah

you seem to have your head screwed on. just continue to ignore her as other posters have said and if she continues talk to the boss.

HansHolzel

Eat plenty of garlic and onions. Your breath should keep her away. It's an old Robert Mitchum stunt.

boogle

Don't agree with the posters advising you to invent a girlfriend. If she is as predatory as you say, then you having a girlfriend could just seem like a challenge to her and she could ramp things up a bit.

I'm a woman (sorry for jumping in if you're just looking for the male perspective on this), and I agree you shouldn't have to put up with this. If a guy did this at work, male and female colleagues would come down on him like a ton of bricks. I have two possible options.
1) Take her aside again and have a very stern word with her about it. Be blunt with her, and leave no doubt in her mind that you are NOT interested, and would hate for her behavior to become an issue with management.
2) Next time she says something inappropriate/touches you in front of colleagues, make a bit of a show of her. Recoil dramatically, say "God get off me will you!", "Could you keep your hands to yourself?!" or something like that quite loudly. Maybe a bit of embarrassment will scare her off.

awec

This post has been deleted.

OnTheCouch

Yeah she's taking advantage of the fact that women for whatever reason are given more leeway by society to get away with this sort of behaviour (I think most sensible women themselves will agree with me here).

I suspect you may have shown some sign of embarrassment, which probably really got her going. I would imagine that if you remain fairly neutral or stone-faced even at whatever she says, the excitement she gets will soon fade. Or, just ignore her as much as is possible in a workplace environment.

The Corinthian

boogle wrote: »

Don't agree with the posters advising you to invent a girlfriend. If she is as predatory as you say, then you having a girlfriend could just seem like a challenge to her and she could ramp things up a bit.

It could, but the purpose of 'inventing' a girlfriend is not so that he can say that he's 'taken', but so he can change the subject to her whenever this woman tries flirting with him.

It's nigh-on impossible to flirt with someone whenever they're speaking fondly of someone else and I've found, from experience, that it typically has the effect of throwing a metaphorical bucket of cold water over the flirter.

Of course, it may not work and he may ultimately have get blunt with her, but remember; she's a co-worker, best friends with the boss and the OP has already stated he wants to avoid things getting "messy with work". So if I were him, I'd try to deal with this diplomatically, without escalating things first, and only do so if there is no alternative.

I Heart Internet

I had a similar issue when working in the UK a few years ago OP. The issue went on for about 5 months until it was finally resolved. Like you say OP, "stuff of day dreams" in one sense but if you're not attracted to the person and they are persistent it can be very tiresome....upsetting even.

I worked in a retail environment and had one of the more senior members of staff (senior in age (she was 35, I was 22) not senior management...she effectively held the same position as me - she was just there longer) hitting on me on an almost daily basis.

She'd rub my leg in the canteen, make lewd comments throughout the day (sometimes hysterically funny tbf but more often than not just sleasy), try to corner me in stock rooms, etc.

Asked around and the other younger members of staff (male and female) told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill. But, to be honest, it came to the point where I dread being on the same shift as her (which was most days).

It is a form of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated OP. After frequent direct conversations with her, I went to the store manager who treated it very professionally. After a few weeks of awkwardness, things died down a lot and she eventually left the store.

OP - what ever you do, DO NOT sleep with this woman. Just don't. It will only encourage her and leave you without a leg to stand on when making any complaint.

MOC88

This sounds like you're interrested in someone else form work or someone that you know fairly well that wouldn't be impressed if you decided to hop on it. It depends on her personality but the next time she does it snatch your arm or whatever away forcefully (make sure not to even physically glance her when you do this) and just look really pissed and generally act pissed all day. Now if she has a certain personailty she'll be delighted for the response but if she has a different one then she'll think she stepped over the boundary back off a bit. You'll have to guage which she is because if she's the wrong type I'd imagine this would only draw her on you more.

Or you could just say head over heels with one of her friends and ask her to set you up - in my experience asking a girl thats interested in you to help set you up gets them off your back and they'll either want to help or they'll get really pissed and leave you alone.

SolarFlash

this happened to me told the crazy women I'd sue the arse of her that cut it out.

batistuta9

The OP mentioned that the woman is around 30 with a kid, he's 21 and doesn't want to get involved - fair enough

But why does he assume she's looking for anything serious?

The Corinthian

batistuta9 wrote: »

But why does he assume she's looking for anything serious?

Does it matter? Serious or not, he's not interested and the continued harassment is not welcome.

Emme

Rhys Essien wrote: »

OP,the next time she approaches you tell her that you will have to set her up with your Uncle.Say to her "he is about the same age as you".That will make her feel really old and she might see the light then and back off.

That might work in a social situation but in a work situation you want to keep things as professional as possible. Is she senior to you? If the genders were reversed people would have no problem calling it sexual harassment because that's what is.

If you have spoken to her and told her she is acting inappropriately but she hasn't stopped you will have to approach her again. Tell her she is acting inappropriately and that she is making you uncomfortable. Tell her that if she doesn't stop you will have to go to HR or whoever is the best person to deal with the situation.

Is her harassment obvious to all and sundry? If not then you might have to tread carefully, she could turn the situation around and say you are coming on to her. If this is a possibility perhaps you should approach someone about it now. Is there someone apart from the boss you could approach?

mitosis

Sexual harassment pure and simple. Start recording times and dates, tell her you are not happy with her behaviour. Prepare to make an official complaint to her best friend.

batistuta9

The Corinthian wrote: »

Does it matter? Serious or not, he's not interested and the continued harassment is not welcome.

If thats the only reason he hasn't slept with the woman then it matters

I think from the way it sounds, the woman knows she's attractive/the OP thinks she attractive. This is why she's keeping it up

But like you say the harassment isn't welcome

Bigdeadlydave

Thanks for all the advice everyone, I had thought about pretending I had a girlfriend but I doubt I could keep that pretense up, she' friends with me on facebook etc (when I started working there everyone added me, felt it would be rude to refuse, schoolboy error in hindsight) plus I don't want the hassle of making up all those lies.

Anyways I think I sorted it... a bit. I took her aside this morning and (bluntly) told her I wasn't interested, to leave me alone and stop wasting her time. She started crying and gong on about how the last couple of boyfriends treated her (badly) and how I was not like them etc. Had a moment were I felt like telling her to fcuk off but ended up comforting her to try and get her to stop blubbing before anyone saw, otherwise I would be the bad guy.

I think she got the message but I hope I didn't cancel it out by comforting her. Looking back on it she stopped crying very quickly (thankfully) so I wonder if she put it on.

Head = wrecked.

I'll see how it goes next week, if it doesn't stop I'll get onto the union official who I know will force the boss to do something about it.

Zombrex

You need to take this very seriously.

Hopefully it will not get worse, but you never know. You need to protect yourself.

First thing you should do is start recording every that she has done. I mean everything.

The second thing you need to do is talk to your HR officer.

You need to protect yourself if she decides, out of embarrassment or anger, makes a reverse calm against you. You need to be able to show that she was doing it first and you have been public about it to the HR officer. The worst thing that could happen is she makes a claim against you and all you can do is say she started it first, which might just sound like an excuse.

The fact that she didn't taken the hint originally is also worrying. She clearly has issues and is probably locked in some sort of delusion about getting together with you. Subtle hints didn't work, and I wouldn't be surprised if what you did earlier won't work either. She needs a sharp jar to shake her back to reality which might only come as a formal warning from HR.

Even if you think it is done still talk to HR. You can explain what happened and HR should keep it confidential. You don't have to ask them to do anything if you want to give what you did time to work. But (and this is the important bit) you need HR to be aware of what happened.

EvanCornwallis

Just man up and deal with it in which ever way you see fit. You dont want to take things furthers, so simply make this crystal clear to her. Spell out what will happen if she keeps up her behaviour, that you feel to be harrassment.

I must say though, From experience older women are the best , but I understand from reading your post its a small office and would turn pretty sour.

SpaceTime

I'd just explain to her that perhaps there's a misunderstanding of some sort and that you'd appreciate if she stopped flirting with you that it's making you uncomfortable and that it's not appropriate in the workplace.

Just say, maybe we have 'crossed wires' or something but that you're not available and you don't really want to create a messy workplace situation and that you hope it does not cause any further issues and just leave it at that.

If she continues, it's basically sexual harassment and should be dealt with as such. You don't have to put up with stuff like that at work.

--Kaiser--

I think it's easier to deal with unwanted flirting from people you work with and don't know that well. It's much harder when they're your friends and you've known them for years

The Corinthian

EvanCornwallis wrote: »

Just man up and deal with it in which ever way you see fit. You dont want to take things furthers, so simply make this crystal clear to her. Spell out what will happen if she keeps up her behaviour, that you feel to be harrassment.

And he should be sure to update his CV once he's done that.

She's harassing him, regardless of whether she's aware of this or not. However, she's also best friends with the boss, it's a small company and as a guy he's going to have a much harder time perusing a harassment case, if it came to that; so if the immediate fallout is that the atmosphere in work takes a nosedive, there's no prizes for guessing who is likely to be squeezed out.

So he can 'man up' (most stupid expression in the English language, TBH) and likely suffer the above or he can first try defusing the situation more diplomatically (suggestions have been given here), then up the ante and start talking harassment if that fails to do the trick and he has no other option.

the_barfly1

nobody stopped to think that maybe this lady is just having a laugh at the op's expense? Wouldn't be the first time i've seen it
She probably has no interest in doing the no pants dance at all.
OP is pretty young and if the workplace demographic is similar to the lady in question then its very possible that this makes for riveting conversation in the canteen!

Rev Hellfire

the_barfly1 wrote: »

nobody stopped to think that maybe this lady is just having a laugh at the op's expense? Wouldn't be the first time i've seen it
She probably has no interest in doing the no pants dance at all.
OP is pretty young and if the workplace demographic is similar to the lady in question then its very possible that this makes for riveting conversation in the canteen!

Ah that changes everything, sure he's only being harassed in work then.

The Corinthian

the_barfly1 wrote: »

nobody stopped to think that maybe this lady is just having a laugh at the op's expense?

I'm pretty sure that "ah sure, t'was just a bit of harmless fun" isn't a valid defence where it comes to sexual harassment.

the_syco

Zombrex wrote: »

But (and this is the important bit) you need HR to be aware of what happened.

Also, be sure to let HR know that you consider it harassment, before she complains that you are dropping hints to her, and hope she hasn't done so already.

endacl

OP, if your colleagues are aware of the situation, what's wrong with a firm and audible 'cut that out' the next time she harasses you? If you don't want the attention, let her know. You don't have to explain yourself. You get on with your job. Let her deal with the embarrassment.

the_barfly1

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Ah that changes everything, sure he's only being harassed in work then.

It might not be so common for office workers, but having the mickey taken out of you is pretty much a rite of passage for young fellas starting new jobs in this country.
Just wondering if OP has had a proper job before? Maybe he's blowing things out of proportion in his own mind?

And I don't think anybody's mentioned it - but if she is annoying you THAT much, stop pussyfooting about with all the niceties and just tell her to fcuk off for gods sake. Not a chance she'll misinterpret that for anything else.

*sigh*

Rev Hellfire

the_barfly1 wrote: »

And I don't think anybody's mentioned it - but if she is annoying you THAT much, stop pussyfooting about with all the niceties and just tell her to fcuk off for gods sake. Not a chance she'll misinterpret that for anything else.

We're assuming he's 'pussyfooting about with all the niceties' since he's hoping to keep his job.

Neither the woman's behaviour or telling your co-workers to fcuk off is acceptable behaviour in any office I've ever worked in.

the_barfly1

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

We're assuming he's 'pussyfooting about with all the niceties' since he's hoping to keep his job.

Neither the woman's behaviour or telling your co-workers to fcuk off is acceptable behaviour in any office I've ever worked in.

if he's being harrassed then i don't think a little bit of french is going to cost him his job...

Esoteric_

the_barfly1 wrote: »

if he's being harrassed then i don't think a little bit of french is going to cost him his job...

It could very easily be turned around on him to make him look to be the one harassing her.

endacl

Esoteric_ wrote: »

It could very easily be turned around on him to make him look to be the one harassing her.

Besides which, why should he have to compromise his own professional standards?

Esoteric_

endacl wrote: »

Besides which, why should he have to compromise his own professional standards?

Absolutely. I was sexually harassed in work, until I was eventually sexually assaulted (management did nothing about my complaints, which is why I told the OP in a previous post to document everything), and I bit my tongue rather than swear at them.

By losing your professionalism, even for a few moments, the perpetrator is winning.

OP, if I'm being blunt - what you did sounds like it could land you in a whole heap of shít if you do it again. She cried. I'm sure you didn't make her cry, but if she's seen crying, do you know how easy it'd be to blame you? I may be female, but I know full well that women are believed in harassment cases a lot more than men are. She could so, so easily make this out to be you harassing her, so please don't approach her again. Document everything and go to HR, for your own sake. There is no easy way out of this.

the_syco

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

She started crying and gong on about how the last couple of boyfriends treated her (badly) and how I was not like them etc. Had a moment were I felt like telling her to fcuk off but ended up comforting her to try and get her to stop blubbing before anyone saw, otherwise I would be the bad guy.

F**k next week. Tomorrow, goto HR, and tell them what is happening.

Otherwise it goes one of three ways;

• She keeps pestering you
• She goes to HR, makes you out to be the bad guy (if she hasn't already done so), and keeps pestering you with complete and total immunity...
• You lose your job over sexual harassment, and you'll be labelled damaged goods