In pursuit of the Holy Grail (first class honours)

scrummonkey

Just got my results and I am seriously dissappointed. Got a gpa of 3.63 for an overall 2nd stage gpa of 3.60. I worked my butt off and thought I aced the exams but it seems , once again, not enough to get the ever elusive first.

I am obviously not attaining the required standard ,so I am asking all you rare people who have managed to get a first......how did you do it ? what extra is required ? where am I falling down ? It isn't for the want of application, so where would you suggest I could improve ? I am doing a bcl btw.

I am determined to get that goddamn first, so all assistance greatly appreciated.

Raphael

What course are you doing?

beardedmaster

Raphael wrote: »

What course are you doing?

scrummonkey wrote: »

I am doing a bcl btw.

I dunno if Law is 70:30 or what, in terms how much much weight is given to 3rd:4th year. There was a fairly detailed thread on Law a while back that says it I'd say.

scrummonkey

beardedmaster wrote: »

I dunno if Law is 70:30 or what, in terms how much much weight is given to 3rd:4th year. There was a fairly detailed thread on Law a while back that says it I'd say.

Its 50/50 3rd-4th year.

beardedmaster

Well you did very well in 3rd year regardless, so congrats!
If you get a GPA of 3.76 for next year, you'll end up with a 1:1 overall.
I'm not going to say or comment how difficult it is, or how many people get it, as it differs dramatically between faculties, and I don't do Law.

Raphael

Whelp, just goes to show why I only got a 2h1.

Is BCL a right/wrong answer type subject, or a thinky-opiniony type subject? Seems to me like it good go either way.

Siuin

I just finished my degree with a 1st and my advice would be;
- Attend all lecturers and tutorials no matter what. Your notes may already be on blackboard, but you're much more likely to remember something and gain a deeper understanding of the subject through attendance. This is also where you get tips for exams.
- Have clearly written notes and do your own research on a weekly basis. For me this was reading articles on jstor, taking a few books out of the library and simply researching online. Don't leave it until exams/assignments to know what's going on in your course.
- if you have a chance to pick electives, by all means choose those which interest you. However, also be realistic in terms of what they will do to your GPA. If you want to experiment with something difficult, do it in your own time.
- talk to your lecturers and tutors on a regular basis. Ask for reading suggestions and don't be afraid to chance your arm. Do this in person, not via email. Not only is this important in terms of getting references later, but oftentimes they will steer you in the right direction for your assignments and give you some really good pointers without even meaning to.

Good luck!

scrummonkey

Siuin wrote: »

- talk to your lecturers and tutors on a regular basis. Ask for reading suggestions and don't be afraid to chance your arm. Do this in person, not via email. Not only is this important in terms of getting references later, but oftentimes they will steer you in the right direction for your assignments and give you some really good pointers without even meaning to.

Good luck!

Yes, Siuin, I intend to approach lecturers, as you suggest but I am rather hesitant to do so. On the few rare occasions I have spoken to lecturers, I found them to be somewhat distant and dismissive. I am told that this is not the norm but I am merely relating my experiences. Thanks for your comments, I will take all on board.

Siuin

scrummonkey wrote: »

Yes, Siuin, I intend to approach lecturers, as you suggest but I am rather hesitant to do so. On the few rare occasions I have spoken to lecturers, I found them to be somewhat distant and dismissive. I am told that this is not the norm but I am merely relating my experiences. Thanks for your comments, I will take all on board.

I've encountered the same reaction on some occasions (usually from the older lecturers) but don't let them dissuade you- having the ambition to get there is half the work and that's clearly something you aren't lacking. For the vast majority of my friends I would say that the only thing which stood between them and pushing a 2.1 to a 1.1 was simply their expectations for themselves.

mc8755

Just finished fourth year with a first but mine was in Biochem and Molecular Biol. Give yourself the first two weeks to settle into a semester and get into the college routine again, then start study in week three (or before). Most people start way too late and then end up having to take pretty huge risks by leaving sections out which can't always pay off unless you're insanely lucky. I'd assume you're attending all lectures and learning most of the material if you've a year GPA of 3.6, so it's possibly down to external reading. Coming from a bio-science degree, I did tons of extra reading for most modules which I think pushes you from the B/B+ bracket to the B+/A- bracket. Law is probably very different, but for science I sort of learnt what the lecturers really wanted based on how they presented their lectures - if they used tons of external source references in presentations then I did lots of extra reading for their topics. One of my modules instead was all about understanding taught mechanisms in the lectures so I did no reading for his because he wouldn't have left aside marks for it.

As for talking to lecturers, I think that can be beneficial depending on the lecturer; some of the more annoying, pushy people tended to piss some of them off enough to make them seem less than approachable. End of module recaps/tutorials are the only real indication of paper prediction too - never trust "patterns" of past papers.

Whistlejacket

Good writing skills are also a big help. Being pedantic about spelling and grammar, so that mistakes are less likely to creep in when you are writing under pressure, is a plus. It really helps a lot if you can frame your thoughts clearly and build a logical and progressive answer/argument on paper. Reading widely, both for pleasure and around your college subjects, helps with this as well.

Some people are born writers but we can all improve with training, practise and attention to detail! I still often mentally thank my fantastic Leaving Cert English teacher, who gave me an excellent grounding in how to construct paragraphs and write well. It sounds basic but it's invaluable and has stood me in good stead, even though I went down the science route in college.

Musefan

I graduated with a first in my undergrad, should be doing the same in my Masters. To be honest, I've never really been a study along the way type, but more of a last minute, and by last minute I mean about 2-3 weeks before the exam. I usually spent about two weeks brainstorming, planning and doing up draft answers for any of the possible questions coming up in exams. Then I spend the week before the exam learning them off. Never go in to an exam knowing the minimum amount of info.

I always try to integrate knowledge from other modules into my assignments, I think it shows that you're aware of the implications of what you're learning to other areas. I never handed anything in late, tried as best I could to make every lecture (things happen though, you get ill, you inevitably sleep in etc. etc.).

I didn't overly talk to lecturers, with the exception of my supervisor in undergrad. If I had a question, I would go and look up the answer before I asked and if I wasn't satisfied, then I would approach them.

Although I probably have a load of spelling mistakes etc. in the above, I didn't hand an essay or assignment in unless I had proofread it 4 or 5 times. I pulled a lot of all-nighters, not out of leaving assignments too late, but being pedantic about how it was presented, if it was written as best as it could be etc. My reasoning being that I was only ever going to hand up an assignment once, and I should make the most of every hour I have until I hand it up. I never, ever handed things in early for this reason.

Cody Pomeray

Got a first in my undergrad which was in law so might be relevant.

1. One piece of advice I would put at the top of the list is that it is not going to be enough just to read your cases and a few articles. Read journals extensively, and try to develop the skill of writing like a legal scholar. Look at how the contributor writes, analyzes and discusses his observations. You will see a pattern: he is critical, clear, and his contribution is original.

2. Try not to spend time spelling out the letter of the law in laborious detail. Never tell the examiner what he already knows, show him what interesting things you understand about what you both know. You can show the examiner this by identifying and discussing (with criticism, clarity and originality) only the most relevant and pertinent questions.

3. Every time you consider logging onto facebook or boards, or going for a coffee, instead log on to westlaw and do some browsing. You can pull up all sorts of interesting cases and articles that appeal to your interest. I know this is a boring one, but skipping facebook chats and socials is part of getting the highest grade.

4. Identify your enemies, and compete. Requires little elaboration really! Try not to do anything that will get you expelled, but I may once have tactically reallocated a couple of important law books to a library shelf that was not their official designation.

5. Approach any lecturer whose grading was dissatisfactory. It's hard to over-state this one. Not only will this demonstrate a welcome interest in improving, but it will allow you to focus on any issues you are having, instead of merely trying to second-guess your lecturers.

Best of luck in getting your first.

Polar Ice

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

4. Identify your enemies, and compete. Requires little elaboration really! Try not to do anything that will get you expelled, but I may once have tactically reallocated a couple of important law books to a library shelf that was not their official designation.

Enemy: Rest of class.
Solution: Intentionally hide important books in the library so no one can find them.
Seriously? You stooped that low?

Cody Pomeray

I was being facetious with the enemy comment. I meant competitors. If the OP is aiming for a first, his competitors are not the entire rest of his class.

Of course I didn't remove a whole section of law books. I just redistributed one or two short loan books that I was going to need in a section (agricultural science iirc) which may not have been immediately obvious. It wasn't exam time. I'd do it again.

Arciphel

A first in your undergrad but a failure at life. Congrats!

Cody Pomeray

"Failure at life" can be a great insult when used correctly.
It loses its potence when used in the context of displacing a European Union Law book.

Seriously, I think I'll leave this contribution at that point. I may have ruthlessly luxated the library order to have my ruddy way, but I suppose I'll never have the pleasure of sauntering astride such a tremendously tall horse.

longhalloween

At least you only hid the books.

I've heard of relevant chapters being ripped out of key texts.

Mardy Bum

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I was being facetious with the enemy comment. I meant competitors. If the OP is aiming for a first, his competitors are not the entire rest of his class.

Of course I didn't remove a whole section of law books. I just redistributed one or two short loan books that I was going to need in a section (agricultural science iirc) which may not have been immediately obvious. It wasn't exam time. I'd do it again.

Pathetic behaviour then again solicitors are good at this.

Sparticle

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

4. Identify your enemies, and compete. Requires little elaboration really! Try not to do anything that will get you expelled, but I may once have tactically reallocated a couple of important law books to a library shelf that was not their official designation.

You're everything that's wrong with law.

Arciphel

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I may have ruthlessly luxated the library order to have my ruddy way, but I suppose I'll never have the pleasure of sauntering astride such a tremendously tall horse.

I love the manner in which you choose to reel off all this unnecessary prose - an artefact of your legal training, but it comes across as more than a little insecure if I am honest. Want to be my boards.ie nemesis? We could have some good arguments.

p.s. My horse doesn't need to be that high, when your ethics are so low. Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur!

Jizzear

1Think its important to make clear yo the OP that "competing" against others and generally acting unethically isnt necessary to get a 1st. My class (in the sciences) were all very open about tips lecturers gave privately, what every1 was studying/leaving out etc and had a high % of 1sts (prob unrelated but whatever). I guess I just wouldnt really see the appeal about doing better than some1 who is smarter than you on the basis of being a bigger dick than they are.

Arciphel

That's because scientists are taught to collaborate, and lawyers are taught to compete. Unfortunately, it's also why scientists earn a lot less that lawyers :pac::pac::pac:

Hunchback

Hi OP,
I got firsts in every single module last semester using 'The Journey Method'. http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTIM_05.htm

Combine that with the techniques suggested by Dominic O'Brien (7 times world memory champion) in his book 'How to Pass Exams', and I promise you that you will effortlessly remember every minute detail that you need, and studying becomes REALLY fun. Really

Being relaxed and knowing that you can remember all the details (precision is an element of achieving 1;1's) allows you more time to develop your analysis or opinion, or to appropriately and precisely apply principles.

Best of luck, I hope it works out for you - at least you are motivated enough to do something about it, despite being disappointed! That motivation will stand to you

Mardy Bum

Arciphel wrote: »

That's because scientists are taught to collaborate, and lawyers are taught to compete. Unfortunately, it's also why scientists earn a lot less that lawyers :pac::pac::pac:

Its also why the legal system is a joke.

scrummonkey

Jizzear wrote: »

My class (in the sciences) were all very open about tips lecturers gave privately, what every1 was studying/leaving out etc and had a high % of 1sts (prob unrelated but whatever).

Private tips ? Please elaborate.

Musefan

In the context of what I posted in this thread, I just remembered something a lecturer said to us once which was "a second class honours is necessary, and a first is for your ego". I think it might be important to flag the importance of showing you're more than your grades. If you want to study further, lots of extra-curriculars, volunteering for lecturers as researchers, evidence of personal development etc. could be more valuable than a first class honours!

Jizzear

scrummonkey wrote: »

Private tips ? Please elaborate.

through carrying out research projects each person would have got to know 1 or 2 lecturers quite well through working closely with them. There were inevitable times when lecturers either let stuff slip or gave hints about what may or may not come up in exams etc. Nothing big but stuff i can only assume from this conversation may not have been circulated in afew of the other facultys

scrummonkey

Jizzear wrote: »

through carrying out research projects each person would have got to know 1 or 2 lecturers quite well through working closely with them. There were inevitable times when lecturers either let stuff slip or gave hints about what may or may not come up in exams etc.

Promising. This could be my "Eureka" moment.

TimeToShine

Polar Ice wrote: »

Enemy: Rest of class.
Solution: Intentionally hide important books in the library so no one can find them.
Seriously? You stooped that low?

It doesn't even sound that bad. I read somewhere (may have been here) that some colleges only offer a limited number of firsts in law so some of the students actually rip cases out of books in the library to "eliminate the competition" so to speak.

Polar Ice

TimeToShine wrote: »

It doesn't even sound that bad.

Your moral compass must be confused too.

Yes, the number of first class honours degrees are limited. No, that don't mean you steal, hide, hurt, etc... in order to get ahead.

TimeToShine

Polar Ice wrote: »

Your moral compass must be confused too.

Yes, the number of first class honours degrees are limited. No, that don't mean you steal, hide, hurt, etc... in order to get ahead.

I meant moving books around in the library wasn't that bad relative to what is happening in other institutions...I never gave my stance from a moral point of view.

Polar Ice

Moving books is nearly worse. If a book is moved to a different shelf it could take months before it's spotted and returned. At least the redeeming factor (:rolleyes:) of pages being ripped out is the rest of the book is still accessible.

They're different types of malice. In a university the size of UCD, you can bet both happen. I just never thought I'd see see a comment as ignorant as the one a few days ago advising hiding books to give an advantage over other students.

Cody Pomeray

TimeToShine wrote: »

It doesn't even sound that bad. I read somewhere (may have been here) that some colleges only offer a limited number of firsts in law so some of the students actually rip cases out of books in the library to "eliminate the competition" so to speak.

Yes, in fact plenty of examiners operate a bell curve grading system, that isn't limited to the law school.

If you are aiming for a first, you are going to be competing against others aiming for that same grade. If everybody is really excellent, there may still only be a small proportion of firsts.

Jizzear

Is your ego really that precious that you cant handle some1 who is presumably smarter/better at law than you getting a better grade than you?

Anyways in my experience bell curves are mostly a myth. The % of 1sts per faculty isnt constant year on year and in some cases can markedly fluctuate. The only person your competing with is yourself.

As a side note american grad schools often ask your ranking in the class....thats the only scenario i can imagine people being that competitive....id go as far to say that if your not applying to ivy league/one of those slick California schools and ur pulling that crap then your a knobhead

Sprog 4

I've spent a lot of time discussing marking techniques with lecturers as I had to mark a lot of scripts when I was a PhD student. Unlike in school, it's simply not enough to know the curriculum material and regurgitate it on to paper in an exam. You need to show an understanding beyond that in order to get a 1.1. This is achieved by reading research articles and being able to back exam answers up with real world research. Often lecturers will use examples of pieces of research or otherwise in their lectures, it is wise to listen to these as they have been cherry picked by the lecturer as being a prime example of something that supports the material they are teaching. Your lecturer will always be willing to point you towards extra reading material. Speaking from a science perspective here but I would imagine it would translate to any area that has peer reviewed journals.

Cody Pomeray

actually I just remembered OP, I remember in 1st or 2nd year law getting a handout explaining the criteriafor 1sts, 2.1s, 2.2s, etc. It might be worth checking to see if you ever got that; I'm not sure if it was written by the school of law or was just generic guidance though.

Also, I eat puppies everyone. I'm gonna eat all your puppies.

scrummonkey

well folks, just an update...... got my first !!!! to all those who gave such valuable insights regrading my "crusade" I am very thankful. Too those who may be striving for same , I would advise that ,

1. Supplementary reading to your particular course outline is of paramount importance. I ensured I read/understood the nuances and counter viewpoints to the established line of thinking and thus could offer a hopefully original or deep appreciation of the work. Articles, journals, papers etc are crucial. This is time consuming of course but try and read at least three/four articles etc per each different topic in the particular module.
2. Be surgically precise on your mode of answering the exam question. Waffle and padding does you no favours, it merely shows lack of awareness and ability to identify what the examiner requires. Less can be more, by doing this I wrote far less in exams than previously, which allowed for valuable time to reflect and write with decisive direction.
3. View previous exam scripts. The examiner notes on your paper are insightful and you will both see where you may be falling short and also appreciate whether you writing style, grammar, ease of reading etc during exams, needs to be improved.
4. Study prep. Ensure your lecture notes are arranged suitably , accompanied by your supplementary notes, etc, and devise a time scale per each module. Break your study periods into "bite sized" portions and keep a study diary, noting dates, time studied, subjects etc. . This allows you to actually see your progress as you study. This is psychologically important as studying the entire semester modules before exams can seem very daunting from scratch. Study should begin immediately!
5. Assignments must be started at the earliest opportunity. Do not procrastinate !!! This is vital so that they do not become a millstone and source of worry when you should be focusing on the upcoming exams. Proof read repeatedly and leave your finished rough draft for a week or so before you return to it with a fresh perspective. You will spot inconsistencies , errors etc, immediately. Wait untill the day before the assignment submission date before actually submit it even if you have completed it weeks ago, as new developments, insights etc may arise in the intervening period. However, do not obsess with it. Do it and put it aside.

I hope this may be of some assistance, it worked for me anyway. I am in no way an academic or particularly brilliant student but was prepared to work hard in a structured fashion. Now, I await the FE1s.........

Trancechick

Scrummonkey what a fantastic achievement. Congratulations!!!

I'm starting year 4 of my degree in September and hoping for a first class honours. One of my first year lecturers has this piece of valuable information in his material on degree classification and in particular achieving a first, students "should ideally aim to achieve this in each of their years of study, as it can be quite difficult to achieve a high result following one or more years of low results! It is not that the previous years results contribute to the final award result (although this is discussed from time to time), it is just something that is hard to do. Like running a race: If you only ever run/train at 100m, then on the day of the 1000m you are unlikely to do well. Common sense really". So far so good for me, I plan on pushing myself even harder this coming year in my pursuit of that top podium position .

Wishing you every luck with whatever you chose to do now you have the undergrad in the bag.